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You really don't know your countries history do you? How many lives were saved by armed civilians when the Japanese invaded your country?
None. NZ and Oz were never invaded.
Australia had a Japanese recon force land on its shores as late as 1944. It remained for around three days. The defensive line was called the Brisbane line and all north of that line was to be ceded to the Japanese.
Indeed. What kills people...people, or guns?That's what you get for thinking.I've always thought if you own a gun, you're scared...shrug...
What's to be scared of if you have a gun?
You have the gun in the first place because you are scared. Without your gun you feel vulnerable. I do not own a gun, will never own a gun and never even think about having a gun. The only time guns are mentioned in my life are on chat boards with people from the US..
Different mind set and all....
The numbers say otherwise.And gives you the highest deaths via firearms in the Western World, too....
Correct.
Anyone who tries to make an argument in the context of guns and violence in the United States that there is no excessive gun violence is a fool, the facts are against him.
But thats politics and social policy.
In the United States, as a matter of law, its a completely different issue.
Ok, tell me how you are more 'free' than I...in practical terms.
Correct again.
You have greater freedom from death and violence, you are free to walk the streets without fear.
Crime stats: New Zealand vs United States
New Zealand Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 3rd. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 79% 89%
Ranked 3rd. Ranked 1st. 13% more than New Zealand
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 62% 82%
Rape victims 1.3% 0.4%
Ranked 1st. 2 times more than United States Ranked 13th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 26.7 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 1st. 95% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 25.1 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 2nd. 64% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 29.4% 21.1%
Sorry to blow your "America sucks!" nonsense out of the water.
There are 7+ million people in the bay Area of San Francisco, with a land area of around 6,000 square miles. The entire country of New Zealand is what around 100,000 to 105,000 square miles? Something like that. You have 4 to 4.5 million people within that vast area, you're outnumbered 20 to 1 by SHEEP!
Is the Black Power gang still the biggest or has the Mongrel Mob caught up with them or been wiped out? What about them Nomads or DSK? Or how about the Junior Don Kings (if you were a copper you should know who they are), how is it that in a socialist paradise like New Zealand they can have more gangs per capita then any other country? There are 70 major gangs at last count!
You clearly weren't doing your job!
I think it is closer to 220,000 square miles, but note I said 'per 100,000' , so population or area is irrelevent.
BP and MM are still going strong, but hardly cause the ruckus they used to. Still make the news on occasion, usually beating the shit out of each other (like that's a bad thing)...Never heard of the Don Kings. Might be a CHCH gang. Headhunters are/were by far the most dangerous, prolly followed by the Hells Angels. Go into Google earth and type in 24 Brentwood Ave Mt Eden. Just to the left of the gate you can just make out Hells Angels MC, Auckland logo. Nice old villa...
As for gang problems, you have whole suburbs in Baltimore, Detroit, NY and LA and Chicago run by gangs. Can't say the same in NZ or Oz.
I just looked it up 103,483 sq. miles. I guess you never heard of DMS then? They are fighting for control of Central Auckland with the JDK. You sure you were a copper????The New Zealand Chapter of the HA was indeed the first branch outside of the US and I think they were founded in 1961. I hear they tried to register a lottery this year!
The HA's biggest challenge is from the Highway 61 MC, you suuuuure you were a copper? You sure don't know much about the criminal element in New Zealand. As I said I have a lot of friends in law enforcement throughout Oz and New Zealand. They are who I get my info from.
Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:Using knives as an offensive weapon is outlawed in the UK....
Using ANYTHING as an offensive weapon is outlawed in the UK. Doesn't seem to stop the bastards from stabbing, beating, cutting, bashing, shooting (on the rise now that guns have been outlawed), etc. etc. etc.
Australia is a great example of what happens in a disarmed country. Violent crime has risen 44% since guns were outlawed there. Here in the US a HOT burglery (in other words the burglar enters the home KNOWING there is a person inside) occurs 16% of the time. In Australia it is 85% of the time. The reason why this is important is HOT burglaries are most often associated with violent assaults on the inhabitants.
Feel free to look up the statistics from the NSW police reports. I have many friends within the NSW police and corrections departments and they describe it as a war zone.
I live in NSW - Sydney to be precise. Have no idea what you are talking about - no war zone here. A couple of dodgy suburbs for sure, but nothing major. Did you get the same info from where you got the info about the UK? I posted a link on that and notice you have ignored it. I wonder why
Wait -- you mean criminals don't obey gun laws?Using ANYTHING as an offensive weapon is outlawed in the UK. Doesn't seem to stop the bastards from stabbing, beating, cutting, bashing, shooting (on the rise now that guns have been outlawed), etc. etc. etc.
Australia is a great example of what happens in a disarmed country. Violent crime has risen 44% since guns were outlawed there. Here in the US a HOT burglery (in other words the burglar enters the home KNOWING there is a person inside) occurs 16% of the time. In Australia it is 85% of the time. The reason why this is important is HOT burglaries are most often associated with violent assaults on the inhabitants.
Feel free to look up the statistics from the NSW police reports. I have many friends within the NSW police and corrections departments and they describe it as a war zone.
I live in NSW - Sydney to be precise. Have no idea what you are talking about - no war zone here. A couple of dodgy suburbs for sure, but nothing major. Did you get the same info from where you got the info about the UK? I posted a link on that and notice you have ignored it. I wonder why
Don't get out much do you skippy...
"You get a spate of them and over the last 12 months we've seen a 20 per cent increase in the number of cases where there's been a discharge of a firearm in a premises, a drive-by shooting if you like," Dr Weatherburn said.
Statistics confirm spike in Sydney gun crime - Yahoo!7
I think it is closer to 220,000 square miles, but note I said 'per 100,000' , so population or area is irrelevent.
BP and MM are still going strong, but hardly cause the ruckus they used to. Still make the news on occasion, usually beating the shit out of each other (like that's a bad thing)...Never heard of the Don Kings. Might be a CHCH gang. Headhunters are/were by far the most dangerous, prolly followed by the Hells Angels. Go into Google earth and type in 24 Brentwood Ave Mt Eden. Just to the left of the gate you can just make out Hells Angels MC, Auckland logo. Nice old villa...
As for gang problems, you have whole suburbs in Baltimore, Detroit, NY and LA and Chicago run by gangs. Can't say the same in NZ or Oz.
I just looked it up 103,483 sq. miles. I guess you never heard of DMS then? They are fighting for control of Central Auckland with the JDK. You sure you were a copper????The New Zealand Chapter of the HA was indeed the first branch outside of the US and I think they were founded in 1961. I hear they tried to register a lottery this year!
The HA's biggest challenge is from the Highway 61 MC, you suuuuure you were a copper? You sure don't know much about the criminal element in New Zealand. As I said I have a lot of friends in law enforcement throughout Oz and New Zealand. They are who I get my info from.
Mate, those guys you are talking about are from South Auckland. I worked Auckland Central and they were not around when I was in the police. I left the police more than 20 years ago.
Highway 61 are not what they used to be either. Trust me, the Headhunters from West Auckland were/are the worst back in my day. The head honcho was a bloke by the name of Wayne Doyle. Not a huge gang, but one of the most vicious, and also kept very quiet.
In saying that, about 14 years ago two members of the HA were killed in a road accident. I worked near their headquarters. On the day of the funeral there were more than 600 bikes parked all along the road and patched gangs in attendence included the Headhunters, Highway 61, Mothers and Filthy Few, just to name a few. Gang affiliations are pretty loose over there...
Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:Using ANYTHING as an offensive weapon is outlawed in the UK. Doesn't seem to stop the bastards from stabbing, beating, cutting, bashing, shooting (on the rise now that guns have been outlawed), etc. etc. etc.
Australia is a great example of what happens in a disarmed country. Violent crime has risen 44% since guns were outlawed there. Here in the US a HOT burglery (in other words the burglar enters the home KNOWING there is a person inside) occurs 16% of the time. In Australia it is 85% of the time. The reason why this is important is HOT burglaries are most often associated with violent assaults on the inhabitants.
Feel free to look up the statistics from the NSW police reports. I have many friends within the NSW police and corrections departments and they describe it as a war zone.
I live in NSW - Sydney to be precise. Have no idea what you are talking about - no war zone here. A couple of dodgy suburbs for sure, but nothing major. Did you get the same info from where you got the info about the UK? I posted a link on that and notice you have ignored it. I wonder why
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 76% 89%
Ranked 4th. Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
Bribe payers index 8.1 6.2
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th.
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 64% 82%
Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia
Rape victims 1% 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.
Software piracy rate 28% 20%
Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States Ranked 107th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 14.6 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 18.7 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 30.1% 21.1%
Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States Ranked 15th.
My goodness. Oz doesn't look to be the paradise you'd like us to believe.
Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:I live in NSW - Sydney to be precise. Have no idea what you are talking about - no war zone here. A couple of dodgy suburbs for sure, but nothing major. Did you get the same info from where you got the info about the UK? I posted a link on that and notice you have ignored it. I wonder why
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 76% 89%
Ranked 4th. Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
Bribe payers index 8.1 6.2
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th.
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 64% 82%
Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia
Rape victims 1% 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.
Software piracy rate 28% 20%
Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States Ranked 107th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 14.6 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 18.7 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 30.1% 21.1%
Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States Ranked 15th.
My goodness. Oz doesn't look to be the paradise you'd like us to believe.
I am from NZ
Yet, our crime is so bad, I don't feel the need to have a gun, yet yours is so good, you do. Go figure...
None. NZ and Oz were never invaded.
Australia had a Japanese recon force land on its shores as late as 1944. It remained for around three days. The defensive line was called the Brisbane line and all north of that line was to be ceded to the Japanese.
I think they drew a line from Brisbane to Adelaide - anything not under that line was up for grabs. Apparently Perth has never forgiven Canberra for that...Problem is, with a country this big, with a small population it is too hard to defend. Let alone, at the time, they thought they wree giving up sand and rocks...
Yeah, a recon force wouldn't surprise me.
I was talking to Jones. You can tell because I quoted his post.1) I don't think America sux
Yes, I know I left out some stats.2) I note you left out quite a few stats that made US look worse
Read the link. "Because I don't like them!" is not a valid reason to discard the data.3) Would love to know where these stats came from, how they were compiled etc.
You didn't.4) Sorry to blow your crappy link out of the water
You didn't actually read them, did you?Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:I live in NSW - Sydney to be precise. Have no idea what you are talking about - no war zone here. A couple of dodgy suburbs for sure, but nothing major. Did you get the same info from where you got the info about the UK? I posted a link on that and notice you have ignored it. I wonder why
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 76% 89%
Ranked 4th. Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
Bribe payers index 8.1 6.2
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th.
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 64% 82%
Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia
Rape victims 1% 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.
Software piracy rate 28% 20%
Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States Ranked 107th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 14.6 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 18.7 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 30.1% 21.1%
Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States Ranked 15th.
My goodness. Oz doesn't look to be the paradise you'd like us to believe.
I am from NZ
Yet, our crime is so bad, I don't feel the need to have a gun, yet yours is so good, you do. Go figure...
This is from an email that I received.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not to protect you.
Never let someone or thing that threatens you get inside arms length and never say "Ive got a gun". If you feel you need to use deadly force for heavens sake let the "first sound they hear be the safety clicking off", and they shouldn't have time to hear anything after that if you are doing your job.
'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes the response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'
Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch, is a drill instructor (Thunder Ranch is a firearms training facility in Oregon ). Here are a few of his observations on tactics, firearms, self-defense and life as we know it in the civilized world.
"The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary."
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way.."
"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, cause it's going to be empty."
"If you're not shooting', you should be loading'. If you're not loading', you should be moving', if you're not moving', someone's going to cut your head off and put it on a stick."
"When you reload in low light encounters, don't put your flashlight in your back pocket.. If you light yourself up, you'll look like an angel or the tooth fairy... and you're going to be one of 'em pretty soon."
"Do something. It may be wrong, but do something."
"Shoot what's available, as long as it's available, until something else becomes available."
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid.. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for?"
"Don't shoot fast, unless you also shoot good."
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work, but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."
"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems.. How long you live depends on how well you do it."
"You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family."
"Thunder Ranch will be here as long as you'll have us or until someone makes us go away, and either way, it will be exciting."
More Excellent Gun Wisdom
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.
4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'
6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.
7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?' 'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'
8. Beware of the woman who only has one gun, because she probably knows how to use it very well.
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton
A people that values its privileges above its principles will soon lose both.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..." - Thomas Jefferson.
Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 76% 89%
Ranked 4th. Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
Bribe payers index 8.1 6.2
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th.
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 64% 82%
Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia
Rape victims 1% 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.
Software piracy rate 28% 20%
Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States Ranked 107th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 14.6 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 18.7 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 30.1% 21.1%
Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States Ranked 15th.
My goodness. Oz doesn't look to be the paradise you'd like us to believe.
I am from NZ
Yet, our crime is so bad, I don't feel the need to have a gun, yet yours is so good, you do. Go figure...
Oh, I don't feel the need either. I just wish to have them. Just like the folks I hung around with in New Zealand, we wanted to have guns. We didn't feel a need. You confuse your adjectives far too often.
For your information Highway 61 has expanded into Brisbane as of 2008. The Headhunters are definately growing fast (maybe the fastest of all of them), the Sinn Fein MC in Wellington joined them last year i hear.
Oh well, don't piss them off!
I was talking to Jones. You can tell because I quoted his post.1) I don't think America sux
Yes, I know I left out some stats.2) I note you left out quite a few stats that made US look worse
Read the link. "Because I don't like them!" is not a valid reason to discard the data.3) Would love to know where these stats came from, how they were compiled etc.
You didn't.4) Sorry to blow your crappy link out of the water
You didn't actually read them, did you?Oh, sorry, thought you were from NZ. Let's run the comparison:
Crime stats: Australia vs United States
Australian Crime stats American Crime stats
Assault victims 2.4% 1.2%
Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th.
Believe in police efficiency 76% 89%
Ranked 4th. Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
Bribe payers index 8.1 6.2
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th.
Perception of safety > Walking in dark 64% 82%
Ranked 14th. Ranked 2nd. 28% more than Australia
Rape victims 1% 0.4%
Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States Ranked 13th.
Software piracy rate 28% 20%
Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States Ranked 107th.
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 14.6 per 100,000 people 13.7 per 100,000 people
Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States Ranked 7th.
Suicide rates in ages 25-34 18.7 per 100,000 people 15.3 per 100,000 people
Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States Ranked 10th.
Total crime victims 30.1% 21.1%
Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States Ranked 15th.
My goodness. Oz doesn't look to be the paradise you'd like us to believe.
I am from NZ
Yet, our crime is so bad, I don't feel the need to have a gun, yet yours is so good, you do. Go figure...
Americans feel safer than New Zealanders and Aussies do. There's less crime in America.
Deal with it. Or don't. Just quit denying it.
I was talking to Jones. You can tell because I quoted his post.1) I don't think America sux
Yes, I know I left out some stats.
Read the link. "Because I don't like them!" is not a valid reason to discard the data.
You didn't.4) Sorry to blow your crappy link out of the water
I know "I don't like them" is no need to discount them. However, where they are sourced from is a different matter...
Here's a survey from 2010 (instead of 2002, which are where most of your stats comes from)
Transparency International - the global coalition against corruption
Wrong, as usual. Oz and NZ both have a higher percentage of crime victims than does the US.There isn't less crime in the US. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No shit. Funny how you want to ignore the crimes that are more prevalent down under, innit?For a start, there are different types of crime.
You could go on, but it would not go over my head. You're not capable of such.Crime is reported differently in different countries. I could go on, but it would probably go straight over your head..
I was talking to Jones. You can tell because I quoted his post.
Yes, I know I left out some stats.
Read the link. "Because I don't like them!" is not a valid reason to discard the data.
You didn't.
I know "I don't like them" is no need to discount them. However, where they are sourced from is a different matter...
Here's a survey from 2010 (instead of 2002, which are where most of your stats comes from)
Transparency International - the global coalition against corruption
Really? What does an aggregation of opinion polls about corruption have to do with this thread?
I'll save you the trouble of sputtering meaningless nonsense and say "Nothing."
Wrong, as usual. Oz and NZ both have a higher percentage of crime victims than does the US.There isn't less crime in the US. You have no idea what you are talking about.
No shit. Funny how you want to ignore the crimes that are more prevalent down under, innit?For a start, there are different types of crime.
You could go on, but it would not go over my head. You're not capable of such.Crime is reported differently in different countries. I could go on, but it would probably go straight over your head..
