gun facts for anti gunners...read at own risk...to your beliefs...

[2aguy]

Again...your numbers don't work...even when the times is inflating numbers...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

 

[2aguy]

about gun deaths and children taking in a false meme...

The Number Of Children Killed By Guns Exceeds That Killed By Cancer Extrano s Alley a gun blog

If the comparison is between the children who die of cancer and those who die by gunfire, those 15 and under, cancer wins hands down with 1333 cancer deaths compared to 795 mostly gang related murders, and too few gun accidents to make the top 20.

Unfortunately, the gun banners definition of a “child” extends through 21, including the years American children are most likely to engage in and to be killed by criminal gangs violence. Including “kids,” children, and young adults, the total for 2011 was 2,949 murder victims, with 78.2 percent with the gangs favorite weapon; compared to 2,023 deaths from “malignant neoplasms.”

here he looks at how children are killed...guns are far down the list....and guns save more lives than criminals take...

The Number Of Children Killed By Unintentional Injury United States Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Obviously, even with negligent manslaughter included, firearms deaths represent just 1.8% of the total number of unintentional childhood deaths. Poisoning takes twice as many children’s while fire kills five times as many as firearms. Drowning more than nine times as many children’s lives as firearms, and motor vehicle accidents kill almost 25 times more children than firearms.

So, again, your numbers don't work...even with the times number 250-370,000 crimes are stopped and lives are saved with guns....

 

[Brain357]

Quite the stretch. So if he had a gun he would have been more alert than he was? Sorry but look at the tape, he didn't have a chance gun or not. If everyone with a gun is so alert and skilled why are they more likely to be shot?
Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

See, you obviously haven't studied gun fights...first...when you are fighting empty handed you must physically dominate,your opponent...either beating the into submission, or controlling their limbs and body...with a gun...all you need to do at close quarters like that is clear the holster and pull the trigger..ideal..no...but from accounts I have studied like the iPhone above...it wins the fight, even one like that...

also...if you are carrying a gun most of the time you do it because you are aware that you could be a victim...so your level of alertness is higher than an average non armed person...I know if it were me..On an isolated platform that late,at night...I would have been aware of them as they stepped on the platform and been planning for the what if scenario...which in this case turned into a real stabbing


the point you made really points to you needing to read more about how guns are used in real world situations just like this...from ambush, against multiple armed attackers, victims with guns win the fight...not all the time...but a lot...guns give the individual a huge advantage/chance to survive...

even against thugs with guns, victims win because the thug has to want to press the attack, even with a gun, and risk getting shot themselves...

 

[Brain357]

So you think kids with guns save more lives than there are kids killed by guns? Lets see the numbers on that.

Again...your numbers don't work...even when the times is inflating numbers...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

 

[Brain357]

Here is an alert gun owner in action:
Employee accidentally shoots himself inside Shawnee strip mall store fox4kc.com

 

[2aguy]

Never said that...just pointing out that even a small kid can save a life with a gun...

As to the guy on the platform...again...you need to study gunfights...did you know most gun fights happen in under 10 feet and a good percentage of those take place at arms length...

people have seen too many movie gun fights and don't understand how they actually play out...

 

[2aguy]

again...take all,accidental,gun deaths and put that number against 250-370,000 crimes stopped and lives saved with guns...not even a close number...guns save,lives...

 

[2aguy]

here..this guy is getting beaten with a pool cue and he still manages to get to his gun and shoot the one of the attackers,and stop the attack..

No arrests after beating victim shoots attacker at Brevard County college cops say News - Home

Palm Bay police said 24-year-old Landrick Hamilton, who was being beat with a pool cue, grabbed the gun from his car and shot Amado Contreras in the chest. Amado Contreras was taken to Holmes Regional Medical Center in Melbourne and is in fair condition, police said.

 

[Brain357]

Again, that number is a fraud. 232,000 guns stolen is a real number. You didn't say anything when I pointed out how not reporting crime is bad. According to you gun owners do it all the time letting the criminal get away to the next crime. So I guess the gun owner either gets his gun stolen or doesn't report the crime so that the criminal can rob again. I don't see how this is fighting crime.

again...take all,accidental,gun deaths and put that number against 250-370,000 crimes stopped and lives saved with guns...not even a close number...guns save,lives...

 

[Brain357]

And often gun owners shoot themselves reaching for a gun.

Never said that...just pointing out that even a small kid can save a life with a gun...

As to the guy on the platform...again...you need to study gunfights...did you know most gun fights happen in under 10 feet and a good percentage of those take place at arms length...

people have seen too many movie gun fights and don't understand how they actually play out...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here is a quick reference guide to gun ownership, accidents with guns, police vs. civilian ownership, crime in U.S. Vs. Britain....there is a nice series of graphics that puts these various topics together...


This fails as a false comparison fallacy.


The best chart to shut liberals up about gun control Rare


This fails as a straw man fallacy.

 

[2aguy]

Again, that number is a fraud. 232,000 guns stolen is a real number. You didn't say anything when I pointed out how not reporting crime is bad. According to you gun owners do it all the time letting the criminal get away to the next crime. So I guess the gun owner either gets his gun stolen or doesn't report the crime so that the criminal can rob again. I don't see how this is fighting cri

You are,really concerned with those stolen guns...

The guns are stolen from homes...when the owners are out...and why should an individual try to apprehend a fleeing criminal...it is a real good way to get injured, sued, or arrested...again...you should look into gun fights and self defense...once the threat flees the scene you break contact...ask any police officer if you should try to apprehend a fleeing criminal....

You can deny the number but doesn't make it fake...if I have to I'll use the 600-700,000 number since I can put a name to them...that makes your numbers even worse...

On top of that, the numbers you cited don't help your cause either...

 

[2aguy]

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

when checked by politifact they themselves stated the numbers, though smaller, put Britain ahead of the U.S. In violent crime....then...being anti-gun liberals they cited criminal justice researchers at the end of the article, who they didn't mention by name or study and didn't bother to cite,before the end, that said you can't match the two countries...so they reversed their own findings and claimed it was false...

so even politic act verified that Britain is more violent than the U.S...by about two to one...

 

[Brain357]

And if gun owners are getting their guns stolen they really aren't helping fight crime are they?

I agree you don't try to chase down the criminal. But you have to report the attempted crime and give the police any info you have. If you are putting your gun on the criminal you should have a pretty good description of him.

Again, that number is a fraud. 232,000 guns stolen is a real number. You didn't say anything when I pointed out how not reporting crime is bad. According to you gun owners do it all the time letting the criminal get away to the next crime. So I guess the gun owner either gets his gun stolen or doesn't report the crime so that the criminal can rob again. I don't see how this is fighting cri

You are,really concerned with those stolen guns...

The guns are stolen from homes...when the owners are out...and why should an individual try to apprehend a fleeing criminal...it is a real good way to get injured, sued, or arrested...again...you should look into gun fights and self defense...once the threat flees the scene you break contact...ask any police officer if you should try to apprehend a fleeing criminal....

You can deny the number but doesn't make it fake...if I have to I'll use the 600-700,000 number since I can put a name to them...that makes your numbers even worse...

On top of that, the numbers you cited don't help your cause either...

 

[2aguy]

Here is the politifact article where they confirm and then disregard their own findings...because it doesn't support the anti gun agenda...

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does PolitiFact

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

This calculation suggests that there is a higher rate of crime in England and Wales, but the discrepancy is not anywhere near as wide as the one cited in the meme.

Hmmm...383 vs. 775 ...just one short of being twice as violent...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If I could snap my fingers and make every gun in the US disappear I would. But even if we banned all new gun sales overnght there'd still be more guns in distribution than there are poeple. So unless 'gun control' means gun confiscation, outlawing a few brands or models here and there wont actually do anything. And all that's achieved every time someone tries is there's a rush on whatever isn't illegal, or illegal yet. Attempts to ban guns paradoxically help gun sales putting more out there.

Solution to gun violence isn't restricting the method people use to display violence. It's correcting the behaviours which lead to people becomming violent in the first place.

If you banned every gun overnight, all you'd succeed doing is ensuring only criminals (who don't give a shit what gun's illegal) have guns.

Disagree with the bolded, but otherwise, yes – gun violence and gun deaths are symptoms of far-more serious issues, predicated on the fact that American society perceives violence as a legitimate form of conflict resolution.

 

[2aguy]

I agree you don't try to chase down the criminal. But you have to report the attempted crime and give the police any info you have. If you are putting your gun on the criminal you should have a pretty good description of him.

If you are not harmed, and you haven't fired a shot...I would suggest you really think about going to the police...since as far as they know...the only likely crime was that you just brandished your weapon in pubic..and now you have,to explain to them that that isn't how it happened....

 

[2aguy]

↑

If I could snap my fingers and make every gun in the US disappear I would. But even if we banned all new gun sales overnght there'd still be more guns in distribution than there are poeple. So unless 'gun control' means gun confiscation, outlawing a few brands or models here and there wont actually do anything. And all that's achieved every time someone tries is there's a rush on whatever isn't illegal, or illegal yet. Attempts to ban guns paradoxically help gun sales putting more out there.

Solution to gun violence isn't restricting the method people use to display violence. It's correcting the behaviours which lead to people becomming violent in the first place.

If you banned every gun overnight, all you'd succeed doing is ensuring only criminals (who don't give a shit what gun's illegal) have guns.

Disagree with the bolded, but otherwise, yes – gun violence and gun deaths are symptoms of far-more serious issues, predicated on the fact that American society perceives violence as a legitimate form of conflict resolution.

here is my reply to that shortsighted and foolish wish...

With respect, If I had that power I would never do it...that would be an incredibly short sighted and foolish thing to do...why...because guns allow physically weaker, and outnumbered individuals defend themselves,against larger, stronger, more numerous attackers, and allows them to win...

so....you tap your heels and all guns in the world are gone in a puff of smoke...what happens next...the feudal period returns where stronger, more aggressive sword, axe, bow armed attackers murder and kill weaker, similarly armed victims...

remember the mongols...not one gun among them...the samurai....not one gun among them till much later in their history, feudal European knights....same story...

what do they have in common...killing peasants with swords, axes and arrows, and enslaving whole classes,of people...because those people were weaker and less aggressive...

Guns are the tool of freedom...for the weak, the handicapped, women, elderly...and the lobs would like guns to go away...because they don't think past stage one of a problem...

So...no...I would never make guns disappear....they are the ultimate tool of freedom giving the weak a real chance against the strong...

Of course...that is why liberals/progressives/democrats hate guns...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

about gun deaths and children taking in a false meme...

The Number Of Children Killed By Guns Exceeds That Killed By Cancer Extrano s Alley a gun blog

If the comparison is between the children who die of cancer and those who die by gunfire, those 15 and under, cancer wins hands down with 1333 cancer deaths compared to 795 mostly gang related murders, and too few gun accidents to make the top 20.

Unfortunately, the gun banners definition of a “child” extends through 21, including the years American children are most likely to engage in and to be killed by criminal gangs violence. Including “kids,” children, and young adults, the total for 2011 was 2,949 murder victims, with 78.2 percent with the gangs favorite weapon; compared to 2,023 deaths from “malignant neoplasms.”

here he looks at how children are killed...guns are far down the list....and guns save more lives than criminals take...

The Number Of Children Killed By Unintentional Injury United States Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Obviously, even with negligent manslaughter included, firearms deaths represent just 1.8% of the total number of unintentional childhood deaths. Poisoning takes twice as many children’s while fire kills five times as many as firearms. Drowning more than nine times as many children’s lives as firearms, and motor vehicle accidents kill almost 25 times more children than firearms.

So, again, your numbers don't work...even with the times number 250-370,000 crimes are stopped and lives are saved with guns....

Damn hypocrites SAY they care about fetuses but they sure don't give a hoot about children.

How many children have to die in order for it be an important issue?

And, do they all have to be white?

 

[Brain357]

I think more of these events happen at home instead of public actually. And sorry but if you have a good description of a criminal and don't report it you are helping the criminal.

I agree you don't try to chase down the criminal. But you have to report the attempted crime and give the police any info you have. If you are putting your gun on the criminal you should have a pretty good description of him.

If you are not harmed, and you haven't fired a shot...I would suggest you really think about going to the police...since as far as they know...the only likely crime was that you just brandished your weapon in pubic..and now you have,to explain to them that that isn't how it happened....