Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Brain knows that it isn't law abiding people with guns...I have shown him the fact that gun murder went down 49% and gun crime went down 75% between the 90s and 2015....and I also showed him the fact that the Ferguson effect and obama with his democrats attacking the police in 2015 increased gun murder in democrats cities.......but he is a troll and posts his crap anyway

I have him on ignore, so I don't have to read his diatribe anymore.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

More concealed carry and more rape and murde


And that is a lie...

You are wrong again asshat.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew.

The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993.

Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes we had the Bill Clinton crime bill and gun control! Now with concealed carry at it's highest we get:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

You are a vile human being.......you lie...with every post.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.




Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

Yes we had the Bill Clinton crime bill and gun control! Now with concealed carry at it's highest we get:
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

So what changed? We have had CCW's since the 90s with more and more states adopting the program. It can't have anything to do with the assault weapons ban. That expired 14 years ago. So what changed???

Maybe it's not the guns at all. Maybe it's something you didn't expect:

'Ferguson effect': 72% of U.S. cops reluctant to make stops

Now that our police are much less proactive, it makes sense we would have more violent and gun crime. The Ferguson effect started in 2015 after the 2014 Ferguson shooting of a black suspect. Much more direct of cause than CCW's. Speaking of which:

Report: Concealed Carry Permit Holders Are The Most Law-Abiding People In The Country

Brain knows that it isn't law abiding people with guns...I have shown him the fact that gun murder went down 49% and gun crime went down 75% between the 90s and 2015....and I also showed him the fact that the Ferguson effect and obama with his democrats attacking the police in 2015 increased gun murder in democrats cities.......but he is a troll and posts his crap anyway....

They are convinced that laws make a difference. Well.......our drug problem is worse today than anytime in history. Over 60,000 Americans are dying from opioid products every year; more were rescued from death.

We have laws against illegal immigration, yet estimates state that we have over 11 million illegals in this country, and some are stating that's too conservative of a figure.

So how do we stop criminals from getting guns? According to the left, make it illegal for non-criminals to have guns.

I'll never understand liberal logic no matter how long I live.

 

[protectionist]

Yes the country with weak gun laws seems to have the most gun homicide. Shocking to nobody intelligent.

FALSE! The US has nowhere near the gun homicides of Honduras, El Salvador, Mexico, and some other countries in Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East.

 

[protectionist]

Gun ownership and carry goes up and so does rape and murder!
Florida's crime rate drops despite sharp increase in murders, rapes

TALLAHASSEE — There was a significant increase in murders, rapes and motor vehicle thefts in Florida last year, according to crime statistics released by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement on Friday.

There were 1,040 murders in Florida last year, up from 984 the year before. That includes 767 murders involving guns, an increase of 11.2 percent. That's the most murders in Florida since 2008, when FDLE reported 1,168.

There were also 7,537 reported rapes in Florida, an increase of 6.1 percent over 2014. Aggravated assaults increased by 3.9 percent, from 58,271 to 60,539, and motor vehicle thefts jumped by 12.4 percent from 36,111 to 40,478.

You're entitled to walk around without a gun, if you're willing to take that risk. I'm not. Why be stupid ? Especially when your life is the stakes.

Maybe the answer is just what I posted in the OP. That you're part of that anti-gun culture America, that common sense has no bearing on. Good luck. You'll be needing it.

 

[protectionist]

They are convinced that laws make a difference. Well.......our drug problem is worse today than anytime in history. Over 60,000 Americans are dying from opioid products every year; more were rescued from death.

We have laws against illegal immigration, yet estimates state that we have over 11 million illegals in this country, and some are stating that's too conservative of a figure.

So how do we stop criminals from getting guns? According to the left, make it illegal for non-criminals to have guns.

I'll never understand liberal logic no matter how long I live.

One of the problems is they keep telling each other that their looney ideas are right and they use that as a basis, instead of just good, common sense.

 

[protectionist]

They have a much higher homicide rate than New York. Fact!

They also just had another mass shooting....

Which would have been stopped cold if there was a good guy with a gun inside the school (teacher, janitor, guard, electrician, principal, etc)

Like it was stopped in THIS CASE >> 2002 Los Angeles International Airport shooting - Wikipedia

and THIS >> Vaughan Foods beheading incident - Wikipedia

and THIS >> Two Gunmen Attack a Cartoon Contest in Texas

and THIS >> Concealed Permit Holder Stops Attempted Mass Shooting in Chicago

 

[protectionist]

Homicide rate down since 1993...1994 Bill Clinton Crime bill and Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Act) of 1993.. Go figure. Gun control works, obviously.

Homicide rate down since 1993...CCW up. CCW works, obviously.

 

[protectionist]

They are using semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines that republicans made legal again. And as you can see the death count is growing quickly.

You are waaay OFF TOPIC! You must confine posting to the topic of the OP >> dichotomy between college students/graduates anti-gun culture, and military veterans pro-gun culture. Otherwise I shall have to report your off topic posting.

No more posting unless within the subject of military people vs college people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They are convinced that laws make a difference. Well.......our drug problem is worse today than anytime in history. Over 60,000 Americans are dying from opioid products every year; more were rescued from death.

We have laws against illegal immigration, yet estimates state that we have over 11 million illegals in this country, and some are stating that's too conservative of a figure.

So how do we stop criminals from getting guns? According to the left, make it illegal for non-criminals to have guns.

I'll never understand liberal logic no matter how long I live.

One of the problems is they keep telling each other that their looney ideas are right and they use that as a basis, instead of just good, common sense.

Why need common sense when you have politicians telling you what to think?

The most blatant and obvious factor in mass shootings is that they usually take place in gun-free zones. Disarming law abiding citizens makes everyplace a gun free zone. They think that's a solution to the problem.

 

[DOTR]

Me? I'm the only truck driver here.

HA ha. Add one union, blue collar, suburban refinery operator here. We are the people living rent free in their minds as "deplorable". We are the ones who overthrew the elites last election. And they know it. They have been building coalitions against us for decades. They hoped

"... communities of color, single and highly educated women, Millennial generation voters, secular voters, and educated whites living in more urbanized states or more urbanized parts of states—clearly favors Democrats and has increased the relative strength of the party in national elections..."

Would enable them to :

"... survive a landslide defeat of 2010 proportions among white working-class voters..."

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Didnt work did it?

 

[oldsoul]

Sad. I post once, and it becomes immediately clear to me that this thread, whatever the intent, has become so polarised that clear thought and reasoned debate is impossible. People have become so partisan, on BOTH "sides", and everyone seems so focused on "winning", that no one seems willing to realise the truth:
POLARISATION AND DIVISIVENESS IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE OUR COUNTRY FACES!!!!
If anyone, right or left, wishes to actually discuss the elephant in the room, please, "stand up" and be heard. If you wish to continue bickering about who is "right", have at it, it's not that big of a deal, just the fate of our country.

 

[oldsoul]

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

WHAT NRA dupe insanity ? Try telling us what you're talking about. If you know.

And you're also off topic. The topic is about the dichotomy between the gun culture and the anti-gun culture, Not necessary to bring th NRA into this one bit.

There never were two cultures until the NRA bought the GOP and all these psycho guns came on the market.

Ok, I've seen about enough of this garbage. If the NRA has bought the GOP, then the unions must surely own, in full, the entire left. Let me explain:

Labor unions donated $765 million between 2012 and 2016, and 99% went to left-wing groups
from the article:

So, do you still want to talk about who owns who?

I'd rather be listening to regular workers than gun manufacturers and greedy idiot billionaires...

You must not understand how unions work then, nor the NRA. It's not the "regular workers" that are being heard when the unions throw union dues at a political campaign. Likewise it is not "gun manufacturers and greedy idiot billionaires" that are being heard when the NRA does the same.

Side note: NRA membership is at about 3 million (and growing), last I checked. I guess those 3 million wield a LOT of POWER. Conversely union membership has been in freefall for decades now. I wonder why that is. Could be that one group represents the way a growing number of people think, while the other represents a shrinking number of people who believe in what they are about. Just spit-balling here...

 

[oldsoul]

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

WHAT NRA dupe insanity ? Try telling us what you're talking about. If you know.

And you're also off topic. The topic is about the dichotomy between the gun culture and the anti-gun culture, Not necessary to bring th NRA into this one bit.

There never were two cultures until the NRA bought the GOP and all these psycho guns came on the market.

Ok, I've seen about enough of this garbage. If the NRA has bought the GOP, then the unions must surely own, in full, the entire left. Let me explain:

Labor unions donated $765 million between 2012 and 2016, and 99% went to left-wing groups
from the article:

So, do you still want to talk about who owns who?

This is all you need to know about Unions and the DNC:

It's not a conspiracy theory if it is MOTHERFUCKING TRUE AS ****!!!

Fear-mongering GOP propaganda 30 or 80 years behind the times?

By all means, explain how the message is wrong. I am really quite curious. Convince me.

 

[oldsoul]

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

WHAT NRA dupe insanity ? Try telling us what you're talking about. If you know.

And you're also off topic. The topic is about the dichotomy between the gun culture and the anti-gun culture, Not necessary to bring th NRA into this one bit.

There never were two cultures until the NRA bought the GOP and all these psycho guns came on the market.

Ok, I've seen about enough of this garbage. If the NRA has bought the GOP, then the unions must surely own, in full, the entire left. Let me explain:

Labor unions donated $765 million between 2012 and 2016, and 99% went to left-wing groups
from the article:

So, do you still want to talk about who owns who?

Even Trump knows republicans are owned by the NRA.

Well, if they can be bought for so little, why have the unions been so successful? Maybe they just aren't trying...

 

[oldsoul]

And any GOP representative who crosses
The NRA gets primaried out of power. By the NRA and its Goons. No one is against hunting rifles and shotguns. And handguns for a very few. And that was always enough until this NRA Dupe insanity.

WHAT NRA dupe insanity ? Try telling us what you're talking about. If you know.

And you're also off topic. The topic is about the dichotomy between the gun culture and the anti-gun culture, Not necessary to bring th NRA into this one bit.

There never were two cultures until the NRA bought the GOP and all these psycho guns came on the market.

Ok, I've seen about enough of this garbage. If the NRA has bought the GOP, then the unions must surely own, in full, the entire left. Let me explain:

Labor unions donated $765 million between 2012 and 2016, and 99% went to left-wing groups
from the article:

So, do you still want to talk about who owns who?

This is all you need to know about Unions and the DNC:

It's not a conspiracy theory if it is MOTHERFUCKING TRUE AS ****!!!

Are you kidding me? This is how you make your argument? No wonder we are losing our country. Pathetic.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Me? I'm the only truck driver here.

HA ha. Add one union, blue collar, suburban refinery operator here. We are the people living rent free in their minds as "deplorable". We are the ones who overthrew the elites last election. And they know it. They have been building coalitions against us for decades. They hoped

"... communities of color, single and highly educated women, Millennial generation voters, secular voters, and educated whites living in more urbanized states or more urbanized parts of states—clearly favors Democrats and has increased the relative strength of the party in national elections..."

Would enable them to :

"... survive a landslide defeat of 2010 proportions among white working-class voters..."

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Didnt work did it?

Democrats have been lying to their people for years. For the last 30 some years, they have been told us old white people are dying off and the US will become a Socialist state. Conservatism is a thing of the past.

When they lose elections, their leaders have to lie to them again. They didn't really lose, it's just that Republicans cheated somehow. Sure, there are Republicans around, but they are off on their yachts or riding around in pickup trucks with gun racks in the back. But most off the country is liberal.

So how do Republicans get away with it? Gerrymandering since Democrats have never participated in that, Voter ID that somehow amazingly discriminates against Democrats somehow, rigging the voting machines, not having enough voting machines in Democrat favored areas as if Republicans controlled those areas, and of course, now Russia.

 

[DOTR]

Democrats have been lying to their people for years. For the last 30 some years, they have been told us old white people are dying off and the US will become a Socialist state. Conservatism is a thing of the past.

Nicely put. And right on the money. Here is a direct quote from them on the issue.

"...the Republican Party’s coalition of older, whiter, more rural, and evangelical voters is shrinking and becoming more geographically concentrated and less important..."


https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Just as you said. A genocidal desire for whites and Christians to die off and their ideas be replaced by socialism.

 

[Foxfyre]

Me? I'm the only truck driver here.

HA ha. Add one union, blue collar, suburban refinery operator here. We are the people living rent free in their minds as "deplorable". We are the ones who overthrew the elites last election. And they know it. They have been building coalitions against us for decades. They hoped

"... communities of color, single and highly educated women, Millennial generation voters, secular voters, and educated whites living in more urbanized states or more urbanized parts of states—clearly favors Democrats and has increased the relative strength of the party in national elections..."

Would enable them to :

"... survive a landslide defeat of 2010 proportions among white working-class voters..."

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Didnt work did it?

And it probably won't work any better now that us white married women who "vote as our sons, husbands, and bosses tell us to vote" have been added to you truck drivers and plant operators. Most especially if we have been reading our Bibles and cleaning our guns to relate it to the thread title.

 

[initforme]

The attack on union's is purely political...if conservatives got the brunt of that money that would support them 20000000 percent. Good workers on the other hand don't need a union because they are willing to walk away and harshly stuck it to their employers at any SECOND without notice. The country is clearly divided first and foremost by class...as the system is designed. It's about taking care of ones family first...company down the list. Again it's how the system SHOULD be.

 

[francoHFW]

Democrats have been lying to their people for years. For the last 30 some years, they have been told us old white people are dying off and the US will become a Socialist state. Conservatism is a thing of the past.

Nicely put. And right on the money. Here is a direct quote from them on the issue.

"...the Republican Party’s coalition of older, whiter, more rural, and evangelical voters is shrinking and becoming more geographically concentrated and less important..."


https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Just as you said. A genocidal desire for whites and Christians to die off and their ideas be replaced by socialism.

Socialism is just fair capitalism, Super Dupe. It's not a desire it's a fact. Check how young people vote. Duh. The US is already socialist, just really shity Pander to the rich GOP version. Add a good Healthcare System, good pay, good vacations, paid parental leave, good daycare and that's socialism. Not communism for the billionth time, idiot Dupes.