Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[DOTR]

Me? I'm the only truck driver here.

HA ha. Add one union, blue collar, suburban refinery operator here. We are the people living rent free in their minds as "deplorable". We are the ones who overthrew the elites last election. And they know it. They have been building coalitions against us for decades. They hoped

"... communities of color, single and highly educated women, Millennial generation voters, secular voters, and educated whites living in more urbanized states or more urbanized parts of states—clearly favors Democrats and has increased the relative strength of the party in national elections..."

Would enable them to :

"... survive a landslide defeat of 2010 proportions among white working-class voters..."

https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/11/pdf/path_to_270.pdf

Didnt work did it?

And it probably won't work any better now that us white married women who "vote as our sons, husbands, and bosses tell us to vote" have been added to you truck drivers and plant operators. Most especially if we have been reading our Bibles and cleaning our guns to relate it to the thread title.

There is a reason democrats brag that they have the women who were unsuccessful at marriage vote.

 

[Foxfyre]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

As a filthy moderate fence sitter I disagree. Yours is a populist, black and white point of view totally based on anecdote. Nothing wrong with it, we all do it, but understand, the accuracy is going to be a bit lacking, get my meaning?

My counter: My own mother has an increasing fear of firearms as she gets older, even though she's been exposed to them her whole life, as have I. She is as liberal as they come, yet will defend the 2nd amendment every time because she has a deep respect for it, as do I.

I learned how to shoot at 5. I currently own several firearms. I enjoy using them at the ranges and for hunt. Your opinion is noted, yet certainly far from the reality of collective society.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Whatever grinds your gears, I suppose, but fear and dislike aren't absolutely synonymous. Reality isn't black and white as you seem to allude to. Labeling stuff just for shits and giggles seems a colossal waste of time to me, IMO, but I suppose your mileage will vary. I'm a firearms owner, therefore = 'gun nut' to certain people. Okay. Yawn. I'm over it. That was easy.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

In the first paragraph, you state how some kids choose education, thus barring them from access to firearms as well as indoctrinated by 'leftist propaganda' in schools. This is a common stereotype of the right wing, if I do say so myself. But, bravo. You be you. I understand that probably most educators lean to the left, and you have a pretty deep seeded bias against that. As prudent as that may sound, it doesn't make you accurate about this issue at all. You inject your bias from the get-go, everyone can see that.

Unfortunately for your point, some of those kids choosing to attend university have parents, and some of those parents are military. Military people tend to respect firearms. Most will want to train others, including their children, how to use them properly.

In the second paragraph, you inject more anecdotal bias by stating those kids who decided to join the military are somehow superior to the eggheads that went to university because... guns? No, that would be stupid. So, I suppose I'm at a loss to exactly what you meant by that.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

WOW!!!! You met people in college that had different views than you had! When does that ever happen?!? How did you cope?

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

As an owner of firearms and an avid shooter, I will say always respect what firearms were created for. They weren't built to wound, now were they? Nope, they are weapons of destruction.

I too won't bother to respond to all the disjointed parts of a chopped up post, but I will respond to your last paragraph.

I am the part of America who understands that almost anything can be used as a weapon of destruction. They reported this morning that the Austin bomber who killed and injured several blew himself up. No guns involved. And another terrorist bombing/mass killing in Afghanistan this week--no guns involved. Jim Jones killed almost a thousand people by demanding they drink koolade laced with cyanide. No guns involved.

People have driven vehicles into crowds of people with intent to kill. No guns involved. And there are numerous instances in which people are killed with ball bats, box cutters, airplanes, knives, bows and arrows, and many other ways in which no guns are involved.

So yes guns can be used as weapons of destruction as can many other things. But they can also be admired as works of art, used to put a suffering animal out of its misery, used for non lethal sport (skeet shooting or hunting), used for recreational target shooting, used to acquire food, used as a deterrent, and in our case, used purely as a means of self defense should that be necessary as there are people in the world with evil intent.

It is not guns that are the problem, but the people with evil intent. We should be focused on people with evil intent rather than the guns. Personally I think it will require a cultural change to re-create a culture in which we do not inspire so many people with evil intent. I have a thread going: Guns: A challenge. . . focused on that very thing.

I see no profit in taking guns away from responsible, peace loving citizens who do no harm with those guns or with anything else. I see that as creating many more soft targets for people with intent to do evil.

 

[2aguy]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

Fact remains psychopaths can get wmds in America and all you gun nuts who are free to conceal carry never take these psychos out.

In Vegas how you gonna stop that?

Hell, where were all the ccw carriers at that gop softball game

And you don’t allow guns at the republican convention. Why?

You should do your research before you post.....

Hell, where were all the ccw carriers at that gop softball game

There were several members of congress there with Concealed carry permits for guns....but the state they were in outlaws carrying concealed guns by people from out of state....which they were since they are members of congress... so they didn't have their guns with them.....because of the law.....you dingbat........and the only thing that saved them was that Steve Scalice is a member of the leadership team so he gets police protection....and he usually didn't attend practices.......

Guns were allowed at the convention, dumb ass.....as they were at the state conventions in states where carry is allowed....as well as at the NRA conventions....

 

[protectionist]

I see no profit in taking guns away from responsible, peace loving citizens who do no harm with those guns or with anything else. I see that as creating many more soft targets for people with intent to do evil.