CDZ Gun deaths in all states per capita

[Open Bolt]

I used the latest data merely to illustrate that suicide rates fluctuate over time, your deluded paranoia turned it into a "gotcha moment". As to King of cherry picking, that crown definitly belongs to you.

I don't think his focus on accurate data and exclusion of inaccurate data counts as cherry picking.

 

[Vagabond63]

...and that might be part of the problem. I think you guys see threats in everyone around you. Certainly moreso than a healthy mental state. That's not an insult, there are things I fear that are quite irrational. They may be somewhat rational fears but exploded out of proportion.

So you arm yourself to ensure you are ready for the threats.

And in turn you have helped turn our country into a killing field. NOT because YOU are killing anyone, but because you and the thousands and thousands of other Americans who live in similar fear and take up arms to protect themselves from their neighbors have helped instill in the greater population a certain anti-social approach to everything.

Guns solve all problems in your world. And that isn't really rational or healthy.

And your sickness has infected the rest of the nation.



You have to justify it to your fellow citizens. You know, the folks you are arming yourself against all the time.

You guys are living a Wild West Movie fantasy and f'ing up everything for those of us who don't want to live your blood-soaked, bullet-riddled fantasy world.

Spot on analysis, this view of America is quite widespread throughout the rest of the world.

 

[Vagabond63]

I don't think his focus on accurate data and exclusion of inaccurate data counts as cherry picking.

Depends on who defines which data is "accurate" and which is "inaccurate". 2aGuy cherry picks data that supports his agenda, as do you. All relevent data needs to be considered objectively and data that contradicts a position is just as valid for consideration and discussion.

 

[Open Bolt]

Depends on who defines which data is "accurate" and which is "inaccurate".

Data is accurate when it correctly represents reality.

Data is inaccurate when it does not correctly represent reality.

2aGuy cherry picks data that supports his agenda, as do you.

No we don't.

All relevent data needs to be considered objectively and data that contradicts a position is just as valid for consideration and discussion.

Agreed, so long as the data is accurate.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Reality is not a dream. It is quite real.



Appeals to the crowd are a logical fallacy.



No thanks. I prefer facts and reality to ignorance such as that guy spouted.



I don't watch tabloid crap like CNN. They are certainly much better than the BBC though.



That is incorrect. Free people have the right to keep and bear arms.



I do not share the opinion that freedom is a wacky idea.

Freedom is not something that belongs only in the past. Freedom is appropriate in the present and future as well.

Freedom did not start in 1776. Freedom has been around for thousands of years.



No opinion on most of them.

Turkey is a third-world hellhole best avoided. It would be really funny if we had our military bomb them. Better yet, let's resume the Crusades and forcibly convert Turkey to Xtianity.

Tunisia is best avoided if you don't want terrorists to saw your head off.



I'd prefer it if Muslims stopped murdering everyone.



Yes.

I know that you've decided to adopt an indefensible position (there is no way that you will ever convince anyone to abandon freedom), but talking about me doesn't actually support your arguments.



I didn't say it was the only requirement. The right to keep and bear arms is only one requirement.



I do not share the opinion that freedom is a cranky wacky idea.

You are an extreme Right Winger. Those that are on the extreme end of the scale are a danger to their country and citizens.

Out of all those countries, Tunisia was the best holiday I've ever had.

 

[Vagabond63]

Wrong...you were wrong the moment you used any research by David Hemenway.......he is a rabid, anti-gun fanatic......

As opposed to Kleck, Lott, et al. Who are "rabid pro-gun fanatics"? Cherry picking data again.

 

[Open Bolt]

You are an extreme Right Winger.

No I'm not. I'm pretty moderate.

Those that are on the extreme end of the scale are a danger to their country and citizens.

No they aren't. There is nothing wrong with people on the far right.

Better the far right than a progressive.

 

[Vagabond63]

Data is accurate when it correctly represents reality.

Data is inaccurate when it does not correctly represent reality.

Objective reality, or your "reality"?

Agreed, so long as the data is accurate.

Again, depends on who considers what data to be accurate.

 

[Captain Caveman]

How else will you end gun violence and gun accidents unless you ban and confiscate all guns?

You insert a brain, stop thinking binary, and just do what the successful countries have done to vastly reduce gun violence whilst still having guns.

It's not rocket science, a 4 year old could explain it if you're still struggling.

 

[Vagabond63]

Better the far right than a progressive.

Says a self declared "moderate".

 

[Captain Caveman]

No I'm not. I'm pretty moderate.



No they aren't. There is nothing wrong with people on the far right.

Better the far right than a progressive.

You're extreme Far Right in your views of guns, society, and others.

 

[Open Bolt]

You're extreme Far Right in your views of guns, society, and others.

Not really. But I do insist on freedom.

 

[Open Bolt]

Objective reality, or your "reality"?

There is only one reality.

Again, depends on who considers what data to be accurate.

What people think about data has no bearing on whether or not it is accurate.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Open Bolt , if you are the only country that's free, why do you need lights that state "Walk" and "Don't Walk" to cross a road, or you're fined?

Per capita, you lock up more citizens than any other country. I would say that's clear evidence you're under a police state.

 

[Vagabond63]

Freedom has been around for thousands of years.

No, it hasn't.

Turkey is a third-world hellhole best avoided.

Turkey is a large country, some parts are fairly primitive, but others are just as modern as the USA. It could equally be said that some parts of the USA resemble third world hell holes.

Tunisia is best avoided if you don't want terrorists to saw your head off.

Really? No-one has had their head sawn off in Tunisia, but they have had 15 terrorist attacks in 40 years. How many multiple victim shootings has the USA had in that time frame?

What people think about data has no bearing on whether or not it is accurate.

What people think about data determines how they manipulate it for their own ends/agendas.

 

[Open Bolt]

No, it hasn't.

History disagrees with you.

Here is a version of what America calls the Second Amendment as it existed in England 1400 years ago:

"Ceorl, also spelled Churl, the free peasant who formed the basis of society in Anglo-Saxon England. His free status was marked by his right to bear arms, his attendance at local courts, and his payment of dues directly to the king. His wergild, the sum that his family could accept in place of vengeance if he were killed, was valued at 200 shillings."

Ceorl | Medieval, Feudalism, Manorialism | Britannica

Ceorl, the free peasant who formed the basis of society in Anglo-Saxon England. His free status was marked by his right to bear arms, his attendance at local courts, and his payment of dues directly to the king. His wergild, the sum that his family could accept in place of vengeance if he were

www.britannica.com

"Fyrd, tribal militia-like arrangement existing in Anglo-Saxon England from approximately AD 605. Local in character, it imposed military service upon every able-bodied free male. It was probably the duty of the ealderman, or sheriff, to call out and lead the fyrd. Fines imposed for neglecting the fyrd varied with the status of the individual, landholders receiving the heaviest fines and common labourers the lightest."

Fyrd | Anglo-Saxon, Mercian, Wessex | Britannica

Fyrd, tribal militia-like arrangement existing in Anglo-Saxon England from approximately ad 605. Local in character, it imposed military service upon every able-bodied free male. It was probably the duty of the ealderman, or sheriff, to call out and lead the fyrd. Fines imposed for neglecting the

www.britannica.com

Turkey is a large country, some parts are fairly primitive, but others are just as modern as the USA.

Turkey is an enemy dictatorship with no concept of civil liberties.

It could equally be said that some parts of the USA resemble third world hell holes.

Progressive leadership will do that for a city. We have some pretty run-down cities in Michigan, all thanks to progressives being in charge of running them.

Really?

Yes.

No-one has had their head sawn off in Tunisia, but they have had 15 terrorist attacks in 40 years. How many multiple victim shootings has the USA had in that time frame?

Suit yourself. It's your head.

What people think about data determines how they manipulate it for their own ends/agendas.

Accurate data resists manipulation.

 

[Open Bolt]

Open Bolt , if you are the only country that's free,

We are not the only country that is free. There is a band of countries from Finland to Switzerland that also tend towards freedom. There is certainly freedom in the Czech Republic.

why do you need lights that state "Walk" and "Don't Walk" to cross a road, or you're fined?

I've never heard of anyone being fined for jaywalking.

We have traffic controls to prevent people from being killed in traffic accidents.

Per capita, you lock up more citizens than any other country. I would say that's clear evidence you're under a police state.

It is not. We have due process in America. Such is not the case in third world hellholes like Italy.

 

[Captain Caveman]

We have traffic controls to prevent people from being killed in traffic accidents.

You need to update your knowledge on America -

Jaywalking: How crossing the road became illegal - Car Keys

For anybody not from the US, getting fined for crossing the road seems bemusing. For anyone from a country where it's illegal, however, it's a much different story.

www.carkeys.co.uk

At last, one gun nut is making progress, "Traffic controls prevent people from being killed in traffic accidents."

You're nearly right, reality is, "Traffic controls reduce the number of people from being killed in traffic accidents".

"Gun controls reduce the number of people from being killed by guns".

If someone decides to step out into the path of a lorry, 99.9% of the time, one person is injured/killed. If some decides to use a gun, often more than one innocent person is injured or killed.

I know you'll have to back track because you've just broken the gun code narrative, you slipped up.

 

[Open Bolt]

You need to update your knowledge on America -

I am not aware of having such a need.

At last, one gun nut

Is name-calling really necessary?

It's like a certain word with black people. Just because they freely use the word to refer to themselves doesn't mean they welcome the use of that same word by a white person.

is making progress, "Traffic controls prevent people from being killed in traffic accidents."
You're nearly right, reality is, "Traffic controls reduce the number of people from being killed in traffic accidents".

Same thing. Reduction is prevention.

"Gun controls reduce the number of people from being killed by guns".

A completely pointless achievement. Murder victims are just as dead when they are killed with other kinds of weapons.

Even if gun bans actually did reduce the number of people who are murdered, saving lives would still not be worth giving up our freedom.

But giving up freedom just so the same number of people are murdered with a different kind of weapon is especially tragic.

If someone decides to step out into the path of a lorry, 99.9% of the time, one person is injured/killed. If some decides to use a gun, often more than one innocent person is injured or killed.

Victims of stray bullets are not all that common. But it is always important to know what is downrange of whatever you are shooting at.

I understand that in the more populated parts of Michigan, deer hunters are required to use shotguns instead of rifles so that stray shots will not travel as far.

I know you'll have to back track because you've just broken the gun code narrative, you slipped up.

I only backtrack when someone proves that I have made an error. Such occurrences are rare, but it does happen now and then.

I do not believe that you have proved that I have made an error here.

 

[Blues Man]

No, you use reasonable force -

What is Reasonable Force in Self-Defence? | Peoplesafe

It’s useful to know the boundaries of what you can and can’t do, to help give you the confidence to make the right decision in the moment.

peoplesafe.co.uk

There have been prominent cases in the UK where reasonable force was used correctly and incorrectly. One where a pensioner struggled with a burglar who brandished a screwdriver. A fight took place and the intruder got stabbed by the screwdriver, fled the scene and died. It was proven reasonable. A farmer shot a burglar trying to get out of the property and died, and put lead lead shot into the backside of the other burglar running away outside. The force he used in the circumstances was not deemed reasonable, plus, he didn't have a valid shot gun certificate.

The link clearly explains self defence in the UK. I know you won't read it because it'll update your knowledge on a different country. By and large, most Americans are ignorant of world affairs and other countries, but convinced they're the best at everything.

Sounds like in America, you shoot at will for the most irrelevant incidents and then ask questions. And it's deemed justifiable, makes you free, and whoop whoop slap slap. Unfortunately, someone in a safe gun culture looking in on America, think you're off your bloody rockers.

Once again no one gives a single fuck what you foreigners think

It just frosts your ass doesn't it?