Gun Control - What's the Problem?

[Taz]

Ya, they don't seem to have ANY hillbillies, despite all the hills. What should we be doing?

Buy more guns and ammo...

Sheesh, with the amount of guns and ammo you hillbillies have, and we're not safe, why would more guns keep us safer? Please explain.

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Buy more guns and ammo...

Sheesh, with the amount of guns and ammo you hillbillies have, and we're not safe, why would more guns keep us safer? Please explain.

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

Look at it again. It says MASS murders.

We are a very diverse nation unfortunately. Take away our minority stats, we are pretty much in line with other white countries when it comes to murders in general. In the US, you are eight times more likely to be killed by a black than a white, and blacks only make up 13% of our population.

 

[iceberg]

How many?

And every sale brokered by anyone with a federal firearms license is subject to a background check and FYI that is the vast majority of gun purchases

The "vast majority" leaves hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) sold without background checks.

And you think another law will change that?

Can you spell naive?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

How many mass shootings do we endure and not do anything?? Can you spell stupid?

So how does a new background check law stop a mass shooting?

So far haven't most mass shooters been able to pass a background check?

And if they can't pass a background check do you think that will stop them from illegally obtaining a gun?

How about getting weapons of mass destruction off the streets Or will NRA spank Trump again if he dares suggest it?

how about pulling the drama broom out of your ass and stop extremifying everything in some juvenile emotional outburst as if that's some WAH I CARE WAH way of being effective.

 

[iceberg]

so while yes it's a "true" statement it's presented in a manner to make people think you can buy guns galore at a show and never have a check run on you.

It is a TRUE statement. Many gun show sales are done without background checks. Full stop.

Also...400,000 gun are stolen every year and 80% of guns used in crimes are either stolen (because there are so many unsecured in our society) or purchased through straw purchases or without background checks

Most gun sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers that are required to do background checks on customer be it at a gun show or in their gun shop. There is no way around that. Most of the illegal guns used in crimes were purchased through straw buyers according to FBI statistics.

i'd pay him $100 to go to a gun show and try to buy a gun w/o a background check and double that if he's actually able to do it and have an independent person film the events.

 

[Lesh]

i'd pay him $100 to go to a gun show and try to buy a gun w/o a background check and double that if he's actually able to do it and have an independent person film the events.

Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

so while yes it's a "true" statement it's presented in a manner to make people think you can buy guns galore at a show and never have a check run on you.

It is a TRUE statement. Many gun show sales are done without background checks. Full stop.

Also...400,000 gun are stolen every year and 80% of guns used in crimes are either stolen (because there are so many unsecured in our society) or purchased through straw purchases or without background checks

Most gun sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers that are required to do background checks on customer be it at a gun show or in their gun shop. There is no way around that. Most of the illegal guns used in crimes were purchased through straw buyers according to FBI statistics.

i'd pay him $100 to go to a gun show and try to buy a gun w/o a background check and double that if he's actually able to do it and have an independent person film the events.

He might be able to find one that is not a gun vendor. But chances are he could never get away with buying a gun without a minimum of a picture ID.

They focus on this gun show theory without evidence that any gun purchased at a gun show was ever used in a crime. Criminals don't attend gun shows. They either buy their firearms legally, off the street illegally, or usually from a straw buyer.

More solutions to a problem they can't solve.

 

[Flopper]

i'd pay him $100 to go to a gun show and try to buy a gun w/o a background check and double that if he's actually able to do it and have an independent person film the events.

Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

The holes in background checks are so numerous as to make the laws ineffective at their primary purpose, keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people. Lobbying groups have seen to that.

Unfortunately, to have really effective gun control requires that gun ownership become a privilege not a right. So as the killing power of guns become greater so will the scope of mass murder.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

i'd pay him $100 to go to a gun show and try to buy a gun w/o a background check and double that if he's actually able to do it and have an independent person film the events.

Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

The holes in background checks are so numerous as to make the laws ineffective at their primary purpose, keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people. Lobbying groups have seen to that.

Unfortunately, to have really effective gun control requires that gun ownership become a privilege not a right. So as the killing power of guns become greater so will the scope of mass murder.

In the United States of America, it should be a "privilege" to have the ability to defend yourself?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So we shouldn't worry about events like El Paso, Dayton, Tree of Life, Parksville, Vegas,Sandy Hook, and on and on...meh...

You have a 99.997% chance of not getting murdered by a person with a gun.

Is that worth worrying about?

Your contention is that we shouldn't worry about going to the Mall, school, a concert, a place of worship?

Blow off a firecracker in any of those places and watch the reaction. We worry

Then, arm yourself or go live as a subject elsewhere.

America is land of the free. With freedom comes responsibility.

Quit being a useless, dependent little twat, and take responsibility for your own security.

.

 

[Rigby5]

Technically traffic laws are voluntary contractual obligations when you accept the license. That is because driving itself, is not really a right.
But government has no authority of its own.
So government can only act in the defense of the rights of others.
That means that it can incarcerate you when you harm others, in order to protect others.
But once out, there no longer is a legal valid justification for harming the convicted felon.
Government does not have that authority, as it defends no one.
In fact, by denying the right to vote, government is committing the crime of taxation without representation,

Ironically we need 'license' to exercise our 2nd. Which is a right. And we have to involuntarily relinquish our 1st and 5th amendment rights in order to apply for license to require a gun.

Good grief. That's a 10th amendment violation itself. I don't recall that requirement to be a power of the federal government in the constitution either.

let's take another look at this.

The 2nd doesn't take into consideration of the weapons that, if willy nilly, used can cause extreme collateral damage to bystanders. The Mobs were spraying with their machine guns (Thompsons and BARs) not really caring if an innocent was in the way or not. If it had just been the mob killing the mob in an open field I doubt if anyone would really have cared. Even today, Drug Mob Killings aren't looked at nearly as well as any other murder. But they were shooting up places like Diners and Clubs where innocents were being hit as well. And the property damage was outrageous. The problem was, if they made both of these weapons unavailable in one city or state, the Mob just went one state or city over and aquired them. In the BARs case, they had to raid a US Armory to get them but it appears some did. The Thompsons made a good weapon to shoot their way in to get the BARs. But the BARs weren't that common. The Thompsons were.

So they use the Interstate Trade laws to justify the Federal Government stepping in. The States were unable to do it themselves because some states refused. The Mob made sure that no wholesale slaughter was done in their supply states. Instead of outright banning them, they heavily regulated them and forced the manufacturers to cease selling them to Civilians in full auto mode. Law Enforcement and the Military could still get them. And the LE and Military no longer offered them as surplus. Since civilians could not get parts or the whole gun, they were slowly either entered into gun collections or destroyed when found. You would think that we are more civilized now and could handle it better but that would be wrong. If anything, we are more uncivilized than the common person was in the 1920 and 1930s. But, even if we aren't we aren't any more civilized.

The 2nd amendment deals with the Federal Laws. It doesn't deal with the State Laws so much. Much of the gun regulations would be considered under Public Safety. And the Courts use to stay out of things when it came to states rights. One can interpret the 2nd amendment as a limit placed on the Federal Government more than the State. Or the other way. But that just starts an angry argument.

Funny, you mention relinquishing the 1st amendment rights. Is the Press so free these days or is our "Government" in the process of limiting that. If it's all fake news then I would welcome the Feds to take it to court and get those news agencies to stop claiming to be news agencies. It's funny, the one that you trust the most has already been found not to be a news agency but an Entertainment Agency. This is why Fox News can be so outlandish. It's like believing that the National Enquirer actually researches their subject matter rather than just make it up. Maybe we need that done. But when I hear a President yell, "Fake News" then there is definitely something amiss and it's not all with the news agency. So the 1st Amendment is in jeporady. Just not the way you believe it is.

You bring up the 5th amendment. You just threw it out there hoping something would stick. Now, explain how that is being violated? I just don't see it has anything to do with anything in this subject. Unless you are talking about the Red Flag Laws. In that case, the Due Process comes to mind. I don't see how the federal courts can uphold a law that doesn't allow the due process before the guns are seized. Sort of like having a cop enforce a restraint without a court order or restraining order. Unless it's issued by a Judge or Court then I just don't see it being upheld. It's early on this one and it's not been contested. But it will be.

As for the 10th, I don't see a real problem. At least one that will stand up in court. Unless it involves interstate trade and safety. States are unable to govern Civilian Commercial Air Ways. It crosses state lines. So it falls on the Feds to regulate it. And trust me, you really don't want it to go back to the days before it was regulated. "Hey, Who's flying the Plane Today?. Is it the Plumber or the escaped nutjob?"

Totally and completely wrong that federal gun laws have ever done any good.
The mobs started shooting each other because of Prohibition, which prevented those profiting on alcohol from using banks or calling police.
Thompson machine guns and BARs were NOT a problem until Prohibition.
It was entirely the fault of the federal government doing extremely stupid things.
The solution to the high mob murder rate was ending prohibition.
If the federal government had not goofed in the first place, then there would have been no problem.

Red flag laws do clearly violate the 5th amendment.'
{...
the Fifth Amendment includes a due process clause stating that no person shall "be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." ...The Supreme Court has interpreted the Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause as providing two main protections: procedural due process, which requires government officials to follow fair procedures before depriving a person of life, liberty, or property, and substantive due process, which protects certain fundamental rights from government interference. The Supreme Court has also held that the Due Process Clause contains a prohibition against vague laws and an implied equal protection requirement similar to the Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.
...}

As far as the 10th amendment, no one is arguing against the FAA.
It is the BATF and DEA that are illegal.
Guns and drugs are out of federal jurisdiction according to the 10th amendment.

 

[EduardBernstein]

Buy more guns and ammo...

Sheesh, with the amount of guns and ammo you hillbillies have, and we're not safe, why would more guns keep us safer? Please explain.

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

We need gun control to stop the irresponsible, Nazis, and mentally disturbed from having access to guns. America is a capitalist shithole. Only communism could save it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Using your thought pattern, I bet you can't wait until Death Race 2020. Start sharpening up those hubcaps today.

Death Race was a movie about needless deaths and violence.
Firearms are used 99% of the time for defense.
Otherwise police would not be armed.
And I trust average people WAY more than I trust police, and in fact, there are few police I trust at all.
The democratic republic is also worth some risk.
We do not want to trade some imagined safety for freedom.
Freedom always comes with some risks and it is a very worth while trade off I think.
Gun control accomplishes nothing except make honest people helpless in the face of crime or government corruption.
That essentially is both foolish and treason, at the same time.

Just keep sharpening those hubcaps. You may get your chance someday, Road Warrior.

What is the alternative, other than establishing the equivalent of the KGB, Savik, Stazi, Gestapo, kapos, etc., here in the US?
We can NEVER rely on police for safety.
They will always have too long of a response time, and they themselves are too corrupt and trigger happy.
I much prefer everyone defend themselves.
I trust my neighbors.
I do not trust the police or the thieves in Congress.
If the police or Congress were trustworthy, there would be no War on Drugs.

Let's admit to some things first.

You are NEVER going to stop violent killings.
You are never going to stop mass shootings

Now that we have agreed to those two, let's go one step further. Violent killings will happen with or without guns. No change to that.

But there is something we can do for mass shootings (4 or more dead). We can limit the tools required to go for the record. They busted another one that was going for the record yesterday. He had the AR, the high capacity mags and the plan. He also had a big mouth. His Girl Friend turned him in. Now, what can we do to take away the tools from this type of situation. And please, more guns are not the answer. A bunch of people firing guns in a crowd only means a lot of collateral damage and confusion when the cops get there. One Good Guy with a Gun was already shot by a cop when he tried to stop a shooting.

So if we can't stop the mass shootings, we minimize the body count. That means change the tools available to the shooter. make it harder to get that AR. Make it nearly impossible to get that 30, 50 and 100 round mag. That's a good start. The Heller unwritten rule seems to be 15 but there isn't a whole lot of difference between 15 and 20 rounds. But there is between 15 and 50. Get the AR off the open streets. If someone is walking down the street with an AR or an AK a ton of bells should be going off and cops should be responding in Swat gear. There is no reason to be carrying an AR to go Grocery Shopping unless you are trying to get the best deal on your Cantaloupe. And do the universal background checks as well as the Red Flags. Doing these in one area and not the other areas means a person just jumps the state line, buys whatever the hell they want and then jumps back across the line again. AT least make getting the stuff more a sport than so easy.

You don't have to confiscate guns to minimize chances and body counts. Just make some simple changes and wait it out. The change won't happen over night but it will happen. Criminals hate it when they have to pay extra to get what they used to get so cheap.

Nothing could be dumber than the theory that guns can be made safe. The whole reason they are useful is the fact that they can kill people who are trying to rob you, harm you, or kill you. Hampering their lethality means detracting from their usefulness as a means of protection.

Anyone who supports this kind of Stalinist legislation is opposed to the fundamental concept of a free socieyt.

The only thing dumb is to refer to necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures as ‘Stalinist legislation.’

 

[Rigby5]

So you want to do nothing about the mentally ill and think telling people who aren't mentally ill they can't own one specific type of gun will solve the problem

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

We need a group or a party not afraid of the NRA and starts looking for cures to our mass killing problems

What mass killing problem? We had a grand total of 12 in 2018, with 93 killed....cars killed over 38,000.....we have a car killing problem......knives kill over 1,500 every single year...

93 vs. 1,500...

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Yea asshole..there's no mass murder problem...sure

Mass shootings account for 1% or less of all murders

SO no it's really not the problem

Tell that to a parent of those murdered in houses of worship childrens schools concerts I dare you

So you would prefer gun control that causes millions of violent crimes to succeed, including thousands of deaths, because you mistakenly believe it would stop mass murderers who would easily passed a background check?
That is incredibly silly.

 

[bripat9643]

Death Race was a movie about needless deaths and violence.
Firearms are used 99% of the time for defense.
Otherwise police would not be armed.
And I trust average people WAY more than I trust police, and in fact, there are few police I trust at all.
The democratic republic is also worth some risk.
We do not want to trade some imagined safety for freedom.
Freedom always comes with some risks and it is a very worth while trade off I think.
Gun control accomplishes nothing except make honest people helpless in the face of crime or government corruption.
That essentially is both foolish and treason, at the same time.

Just keep sharpening those hubcaps. You may get your chance someday, Road Warrior.

What is the alternative, other than establishing the equivalent of the KGB, Savik, Stazi, Gestapo, kapos, etc., here in the US?
We can NEVER rely on police for safety.
They will always have too long of a response time, and they themselves are too corrupt and trigger happy.
I much prefer everyone defend themselves.
I trust my neighbors.
I do not trust the police or the thieves in Congress.
If the police or Congress were trustworthy, there would be no War on Drugs.

Let's admit to some things first.

You are NEVER going to stop violent killings.
You are never going to stop mass shootings

Now that we have agreed to those two, let's go one step further. Violent killings will happen with or without guns. No change to that.

But there is something we can do for mass shootings (4 or more dead). We can limit the tools required to go for the record. They busted another one that was going for the record yesterday. He had the AR, the high capacity mags and the plan. He also had a big mouth. His Girl Friend turned him in. Now, what can we do to take away the tools from this type of situation. And please, more guns are not the answer. A bunch of people firing guns in a crowd only means a lot of collateral damage and confusion when the cops get there. One Good Guy with a Gun was already shot by a cop when he tried to stop a shooting.

So if we can't stop the mass shootings, we minimize the body count. That means change the tools available to the shooter. make it harder to get that AR. Make it nearly impossible to get that 30, 50 and 100 round mag. That's a good start. The Heller unwritten rule seems to be 15 but there isn't a whole lot of difference between 15 and 20 rounds. But there is between 15 and 50. Get the AR off the open streets. If someone is walking down the street with an AR or an AK a ton of bells should be going off and cops should be responding in Swat gear. There is no reason to be carrying an AR to go Grocery Shopping unless you are trying to get the best deal on your Cantaloupe. And do the universal background checks as well as the Red Flags. Doing these in one area and not the other areas means a person just jumps the state line, buys whatever the hell they want and then jumps back across the line again. AT least make getting the stuff more a sport than so easy.

You don't have to confiscate guns to minimize chances and body counts. Just make some simple changes and wait it out. The change won't happen over night but it will happen. Criminals hate it when they have to pay extra to get what they used to get so cheap.

Nothing could be dumber than the theory that guns can be made safe. The whole reason they are useful is the fact that they can kill people who are trying to rob you, harm you, or kill you. Hampering their lethality means detracting from their usefulness as a means of protection.

Anyone who supports this kind of Stalinist legislation is opposed to the fundamental concept of a free socieyt.

The only thing dumb is to refer to necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures as ‘Stalinist legislation.’

They aren't necessary, proper or constitutional. Hence, they are Stalinist.

 

[Rigby5]

So we shouldn't worry about events like El Paso, Dayton, Tree of Life, Parksville, Vegas,Sandy Hook, and on and on...meh...

You have a 99.997% chance of not getting murdered by a person with a gun.

Is that worth worrying about?

Your contention is that we shouldn't worry about going to the Mall, school, a concert, a place of worship?

Blow off a firecracker in any of those places and watch the reaction. We worry

That is silly.
Of course you should worry, because whenever there are stupid restrictions on honest people being armed, then everyone is at greater risk.

 

[Rigby5]

So we shouldn't worry about events like El Paso, Dayton, Tree of Life, Parksville, Vegas,Sandy Hook, and on and on...meh...

You have a 99.997% chance of not getting murdered by a person with a gun.

Is that worth worrying about?

Your contention is that we shouldn't worry about going to the Mall, school, a concert, a place of worship?

Blow off a firecracker in any of those places and watch the reaction. We worry

Republicans here remind me of a character in Mad Magazine Alfred E Neuman with the caption What ?? Me worry?

No progressive, liberal, or real democrat would ever support any federal gun control.
Gun control protects no one, and is a clear and present danger to the whole democratic republic.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sheesh, with the amount of guns and ammo you hillbillies have, and we're not safe, why would more guns keep us safer? Please explain.

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

We need gun control to stop the irresponsible, Nazis, and mentally disturbed from having access to guns. America is a capitalist shithole. Only communism could save it.

Why change this country? If you like dictatorships or Communism, there are a number of places for you to go. Then come back in a couple of years (if they let you) and tell us how great it was.

 

[Rigby5]

Sheesh, with the amount of guns and ammo you hillbillies have, and we're not safe, why would more guns keep us safer? Please explain.

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

We need gun control to stop the irresponsible, Nazis, and mentally disturbed from having access to guns. America is a capitalist shithole. Only communism could save it.

You have that totally backwards.
What gives Fascists power IS gun control.
The only way to reduce fascism is to end gun control first.

The reason Hitler was able to massacre all the Spartacus League in Germany was that there was such strict gun control.
Only Hitlers forces were exempt, because the SA were a privileged veterans society that claimed to be promoting marksmanship.

No progressive, liberal, or leftest would ever support gun control.
Gun control has always been used to murder anyone against racism or for things like labor unions.

 

[Rigby5]

Death Race was a movie about needless deaths and violence.
Firearms are used 99% of the time for defense.
Otherwise police would not be armed.
And I trust average people WAY more than I trust police, and in fact, there are few police I trust at all.
The democratic republic is also worth some risk.
We do not want to trade some imagined safety for freedom.
Freedom always comes with some risks and it is a very worth while trade off I think.
Gun control accomplishes nothing except make honest people helpless in the face of crime or government corruption.
That essentially is both foolish and treason, at the same time.

Just keep sharpening those hubcaps. You may get your chance someday, Road Warrior.

What is the alternative, other than establishing the equivalent of the KGB, Savik, Stazi, Gestapo, kapos, etc., here in the US?
We can NEVER rely on police for safety.
They will always have too long of a response time, and they themselves are too corrupt and trigger happy.
I much prefer everyone defend themselves.
I trust my neighbors.
I do not trust the police or the thieves in Congress.
If the police or Congress were trustworthy, there would be no War on Drugs.

Let's admit to some things first.

You are NEVER going to stop violent killings.
You are never going to stop mass shootings

Now that we have agreed to those two, let's go one step further. Violent killings will happen with or without guns. No change to that.

But there is something we can do for mass shootings (4 or more dead). We can limit the tools required to go for the record. They busted another one that was going for the record yesterday. He had the AR, the high capacity mags and the plan. He also had a big mouth. His Girl Friend turned him in. Now, what can we do to take away the tools from this type of situation. And please, more guns are not the answer. A bunch of people firing guns in a crowd only means a lot of collateral damage and confusion when the cops get there. One Good Guy with a Gun was already shot by a cop when he tried to stop a shooting.

So if we can't stop the mass shootings, we minimize the body count. That means change the tools available to the shooter. make it harder to get that AR. Make it nearly impossible to get that 30, 50 and 100 round mag. That's a good start. The Heller unwritten rule seems to be 15 but there isn't a whole lot of difference between 15 and 20 rounds. But there is between 15 and 50. Get the AR off the open streets. If someone is walking down the street with an AR or an AK a ton of bells should be going off and cops should be responding in Swat gear. There is no reason to be carrying an AR to go Grocery Shopping unless you are trying to get the best deal on your Cantaloupe. And do the universal background checks as well as the Red Flags. Doing these in one area and not the other areas means a person just jumps the state line, buys whatever the hell they want and then jumps back across the line again. AT least make getting the stuff more a sport than so easy.

You don't have to confiscate guns to minimize chances and body counts. Just make some simple changes and wait it out. The change won't happen over night but it will happen. Criminals hate it when they have to pay extra to get what they used to get so cheap.

Nothing could be dumber than the theory that guns can be made safe. The whole reason they are useful is the fact that they can kill people who are trying to rob you, harm you, or kill you. Hampering their lethality means detracting from their usefulness as a means of protection.

Anyone who supports this kind of Stalinist legislation is opposed to the fundamental concept of a free socieyt.

The only thing dumb is to refer to necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures as ‘Stalinist legislation.’

About the only gun control that is necessary are laws to prevent children buying guns.
Gun control of adults is not at all proper.
People not only have a right to defend themselves, but only well armed and trained populations ever survive invasion or take over.
And clearly no federal gun control can ever be constitutional.
The solution to violent or dangerous people is to confine or supervise them, not all the possible weapons they could ever use, because that is totally impossible.

 

[EduardBernstein]

N

The reason we are not safe is that you are not allowed to have guns outside the home pretty much.
Like the insane law making it illegal to drive past a school with a gun in the trunk.
And it is getting harder and harder to have guns or find any place to practice.
For example, condo associations can ban them, as well as government subsidized housing, etc.

So more guns are needed to be safer. So why is it that other countries can have less guns and less mass shootings but we can’t?

When it comes to mass murders, the US is 20th on the list.

mass murders by country

Those stats are for general murders, but interesting none the less. We're right up there with all the other shitholes.

We need gun control to stop the irresponsible, Nazis, and mentally disturbed from having access to guns. America is a capitalist shithole. Only communism could save it.

You have that totally backwards.
What gives Fascists power IS gun control.
The only way to reduce fascism is to end gun control first.

The reason Hitler was able to massacre all the Spartacus League in Germany was that there was such strict gun control.
Only Hitlers forces were exempt, because the SA were a privileged veterans society that claimed to be promoting marksmanship.

No progressive, liberal, or leftest would ever support gun control.
Gun control has always been used to murder anyone against racism or for things like labor unions.

Nazis supported guns for Nazis. That helped them kill Jews in the Holocaust.