Great News - Gov. Christ Vetoes Teacher Pay Bill

[Big Fitz]

TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF PARENTS OF KIDS IN THEIR CLASS

Yes. But when they're not even allowed to take control of the kids themselves, taking control of the parents may be more difficult.

 

[Samson]

TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF PARENTS OF KIDS IN THEIR CLASS

Yes. But when they're not even allowed to take control of the kids themselves, taking control of the parents may be more difficult.

No, parents ARE allowed to take control of their kids.

This is why teachers need to "take control" of parents. Obviously, I don't mean hypnotise them, or make them into Zombies. What I mean by "take control" is to communicate (AND DOCUMENT COMMUNICATION) with them on a frequent basis, not wait until they show for open house, or wait until they're pissed off because you failed little Johnny, or wait until they open the mail. Pick up a goddamn phone, for christssakes.

 

[Samson]

They forget, that the PUBLIC they serve are the PARENTS. It is very much their responsiblitity to cater to parents. This means more than waiting passively for them to appear on Open House Night.

Not the Parents. They work with the Parents, but not for them. They work for The Community, which is a different thing than the parents.

Parents say they want standards, but the truth is that Parents want little Timmy to get all A's, be first chair in the Band, starting line up on the football team, and homecoming king. It doesn't matter if Timmy can do that or not, it is what they want.

What the community wants is kids held to standards so that when they finish school they can be functioning citizens. Its the Parents that are often the source of social promotion (Do you know how much grief a parent gives to the teachers if the teacher thinks Timmy can't go on, or shouldn't graduate?), grade inflation (Why isn't Timmy passing!), and many other social woes. Its parents that often complained the loudest about captial punishment in school.

I suppose if you wanna debate sematics, then we could say parents are not the community.

But this is impractical, since the only portion of "The Community" that a teacher will ever see or hear are the parents of the kids they teach.

The administration of the school, on the other hand, is much more concerned with "the community."

 

[bodecea]

Samson - on an avg year, I see about 2 parents at our three conference nights. A few years I had zero.

The only time I ever get a parent phone call is when a student fails or is suspended.

Parents do not call principals to say what a great job the teacher is doing. Six of my seniors will not be graduating.

Parents who never paid attention to the report cards or progress reports will suddenly wake up and ultimately blame the teacher. I anticipate pressure to change grades by mom, guidance, and or the administration. And I will not. That's why we need tenure. Its a necessary evil. In NJ - everyone graduates! Regardless...

Perhaps evaluations could be more objective. But test scores alone are ludicrous.

Well, like I said originally, I'm not surprised at what you're saying:

1. Parents did not come to see you

2. Parents did not call you

3. Parents did not pay attention to report cards/progress reports

And Please, Its NOT YOUR FAULT that you haven't been trained. As an Administrator, it is MY JOB to make sure teachers know what their job is. It appears that your principal is doing a shitty job.

This is what I would do, if I were him:

1. You will call every parent in the beginning of the year and introduce yourself.
2. I will not discuss a behaviour problem you have in the classroom unless you have A. Called the parent (and documented the time and date), B. Applied your own Behaviour Modification Plan (again, with documentation). Obviously, if you, or students are in danger, then I wanna hear about it.
3. No failing report card grade will be given unless you implement a Plan For Success that the parent has signed.
4. No failing progress report grade will be given unless the parent has been phoned, and you have arranged to meet the parent (again, documented)

TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF PARENTS OF KIDS IN THEIR CLASS

For real? Are you serious? What will give the teachers the ability to take control of the Parents of kids in their classroom? Please enlighten us.

 

[Samson]

Samson - on an avg year, I see about 2 parents at our three conference nights. A few years I had zero.

The only time I ever get a parent phone call is when a student fails or is suspended.

Parents do not call principals to say what a great job the teacher is doing. Six of my seniors will not be graduating.

Parents who never paid attention to the report cards or progress reports will suddenly wake up and ultimately blame the teacher. I anticipate pressure to change grades by mom, guidance, and or the administration. And I will not. That's why we need tenure. Its a necessary evil. In NJ - everyone graduates! Regardless...

Perhaps evaluations could be more objective. But test scores alone are ludicrous.

Well, like I said originally, I'm not surprised at what you're saying:

1. Parents did not come to see you

2. Parents did not call you

3. Parents did not pay attention to report cards/progress reports

And Please, Its NOT YOUR FAULT that you haven't been trained. As an Administrator, it is MY JOB to make sure teachers know what their job is. It appears that your principal is doing a shitty job.

This is what I would do, if I were him:

1. You will call every parent in the beginning of the year and introduce yourself.
2. I will not discuss a behaviour problem you have in the classroom unless you have A. Called the parent (and documented the time and date), B. Applied your own Behaviour Modification Plan (again, with documentation). Obviously, if you, or students are in danger, then I wanna hear about it.
3. No failing report card grade will be given unless you implement a Plan For Success that the parent has signed.
4. No failing progress report grade will be given unless the parent has been phoned, and you have arranged to meet the parent (again, documented)

TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF PARENTS OF KIDS IN THEIR CLASS

For real? Are you serious? What will give the teachers the ability to take control of the Parents of kids in their classroom? Please enlighten us.

I'll go ahead and repeat it if you'd like:

This is why teachers need to "take control" of parents. Obviously, I don't mean hypnotise them, or make them into Zombies. What I mean by "take control" is to communicate (AND DOCUMENT COMMUNICATION) with them on a frequent basis, not wait until they show for open house, or wait until they're pissed off because you failed little Johnny, or wait until they open the mail. Pick up a goddamn phone, for christssakes.

I might add, that you're reaction isn't at all unexpected: Most teachers believe it is totally absurd for them to bother to initiate any communication with parents, and I can sympathise with this POV, since normally they wait until the shit hits the fan, and then the parent is coming after them for blood.

 

[bodecea]

Well, like I said originally, I'm not surprised at what you're saying:

1. Parents did not come to see you

2. Parents did not call you

3. Parents did not pay attention to report cards/progress reports

And Please, Its NOT YOUR FAULT that you haven't been trained. As an Administrator, it is MY JOB to make sure teachers know what their job is. It appears that your principal is doing a shitty job.

This is what I would do, if I were him:

1. You will call every parent in the beginning of the year and introduce yourself.
2. I will not discuss a behaviour problem you have in the classroom unless you have A. Called the parent (and documented the time and date), B. Applied your own Behaviour Modification Plan (again, with documentation). Obviously, if you, or students are in danger, then I wanna hear about it.
3. No failing report card grade will be given unless you implement a Plan For Success that the parent has signed.
4. No failing progress report grade will be given unless the parent has been phoned, and you have arranged to meet the parent (again, documented)

TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF PARENTS OF KIDS IN THEIR CLASS

For real? Are you serious? What will give the teachers the ability to take control of the Parents of kids in their classroom? Please enlighten us.

I'll go ahead and repeat it if you'd like:

This is why teachers need to "take control" of parents. Obviously, I don't mean hypnotise them, or make them into Zombies. What I mean by "take control" is to communicate (AND DOCUMENT COMMUNICATION) with them on a frequent basis, not wait until they show for open house, or wait until they're pissed off because you failed little Johnny, or wait until they open the mail. Pick up a goddamn phone, for christssakes.

I might add, that you're reaction isn't at all unexpected: Most teachers believe it is totally absurd for them to bother to initiate any communication with parents, and I can sympathise with this POV, since normally they wait until the shit hits the fan, and then the parent is coming after them for blood.

I showed your post to a teacher friend of mine...after she stopped laughing, she told me this:

1. All teachers at her school make a sincere effort to call all the parents within the first 2 weeks....that includes the teachers who have over 180 students. Many of the parents do not speak English...are not home (have no answering machines) or actually are rude to the teachers for calling and interrupting their home time.

2. All teachers are REQUIRED to send a letter home the first week explaining their rules, grading system, etc. with a contact # and space for questions. Parents are supposed to sign and return....my friend says she's lucky to get 25% back.

3. Parents have a Back to School Night within 6 weeks of school starting...the school's phone system calls each parent to remind them to come. The Honors classes get SRO, the other classes anywhere from 50-5% show rate.

4. After the first marking period, parent conferences are scheduled for the students with D's and F's...theres about a 30% response rate even tho the School Counselor actually home visits some of the worse cases.

5. Parent conferences are arranged for all year long. Parents are called all year long.

6. My friend uses her own cell phone in class to call parents right away if a student is acting out in class.

My friend states that these policies are TYPICAL for all schools she knows. Now...explain to me how teachers are not reaching out to parents?

 

[Samson]

My friend states that these policies are TYPICAL for all schools she knows. Now...explain to me how teachers are not reaching out to parents?

I'm glad my post brought some humor to a teacher. It was designed to do this.

Not sure how many schools she knows: There might be more than a few she doesn't, e.g, chanel who didn't mention anything about these policies in her "typical?" school.

Plus, just because there is a Policy, doesn't mean that teachers do it.

My point isn't that all teachers do it.

My point is that GOOD TEACHERS do it, and GOOD Administration coaches teachers to make them better.

 

[bodecea]

My friend states that these policies are TYPICAL for all schools she knows. Now...explain to me how teachers are not reaching out to parents?

I'm glad my post brought some humor to a teacher. It was designed to do this.

Not sure how many schools she knows: There might be more than a few she doesn't, e.g, chanel who didn't mention anything about these policies in her "typical?" school.

Plus, just because there is a Policy, doesn't mean that teachers do it.

My point isn't that all teachers do it.

My point is that GOOD TEACHERS do it, and GOOD Administration coaches teachers to make them better.

Nothing about GOOD parents and GOOD students I see.

 

[Samson]

My friend states that these policies are TYPICAL for all schools she knows. Now...explain to me how teachers are not reaching out to parents?

I'm glad my post brought some humor to a teacher. It was designed to do this.

Not sure how many schools she knows: There might be more than a few she doesn't, e.g, chanel who didn't mention anything about these policies in her "typical?" school.

Plus, just because there is a Policy, doesn't mean that teachers do it.

My point isn't that all teachers do it.

My point is that GOOD TEACHERS do it, and GOOD Administration coaches teachers to make them better.

Nothing about GOOD parents and GOOD students I see.

They're not paid to be GOOD.

 

[chanel]

Bodacea hit the nail on the head. Although it is not policy, I send a welcome letter and questionaire that has about a 50 percent return rate. I contact parents regularly by phone (often disconnected) or email. But I do not harrass them. Our grades are posted on line and I ask that they check the site regularly. Failures should never be - although they are - a surprise. As far as serious discipline matters, I only report what happened. The disciplinarian decides the punishment and gets to make that phone call. That's why he makes three times my salary.

My success plan includes the following: Show up. Pay attention. Do your work. Its so simple even a caveman could do it.

My truancy plan is even simpler; get your fuckin kid on the bus. We will do the rest.

Behavior Plan - Golden Rule

Of course other believe a team of experts should be assembled to put together 60 pages of accomodations, strategies, and benchmarks which should be documented by the teacher and monitored by the "team" and the state. That of course costs a bazillion dollars and will ultimately produce the same results. But hey - if it makes others feel important...

I have lost sleep over these kids who will not walk. But the funny part is, I don't think they have. Five year HS plans don't have the stigma they once did.

 

[Samson]

Bodacea hit the nail on the head. Although it is not policy, I send a welcome letter and questionaire that has about a 50 percent return rate. I contact parents regularly by phone (often disconnected) or email. But I do not harrass them. Our grades are posted on line and I ask that they check the site regularly. Failures should never be - although they are - a surprise. As far as serious discipline matters, I only report what happened. The disciplinarian decides the punishment and gets to make that phone call. That's why he makes three times my salary.

My success plan includes the following: Show up. Pay attention. Do your work. Its so simple even a caveman could do it.

My truancy plan is even simpler; get your fuckin kid on the bus. We will do the rest.

Behavior Plan - Golden Rule

Of course other believe a team of experts should be assembled to put together 60 pages of accomodations, strategies, and benchmarks which should be documented by the teacher and monitored by the "team" and the state. That of course costs a bazillion dollars and will ultimately produce the same results. But hey - if it makes others feel important...

I have lost sleep over these kids who will not walk. But the funny part is, I don't think they have. Five year HS plans don't have the stigma they once did.

You can do whatever you want.

But teachers souldn't be surprised when the public has no sympathy for what they do unless they make a sustained, frequent, and effective attempt to communicate with parents. This doesn't include passive attempts (automated phone calls, online grades, mailings). This also doesn't include anything that cannot be documented (an actual time and place that a REAL discussion or meeting takes place).

 

[chanel]

Parent Contact logs are part of our annual evaluation. Unreturned phone calls are documented as well.

I don't think teachers look for sympathy. Just a little respect. When a parent says "yeah I know. He doesn't do homework". That's the end of that "sustained" conversation. When a parent says, "yes he makes racist comments. He can't help it" That's the end of that conversation. When concerns are expressed over attendance and they say "He's 18 and has a car. I have no control". That's fine too.

Many students are enrolled in school simply to keep the welfare check rolling in. Many are enrolled to comply with the terms of their probation. And others are just there for the chicks.

A 100% graduation rate in a county with 15% unemployment and a huge substance abuse problem would be awfully suspicious to people with a half a brain. Yet there are some who think that is possible. Which it is - if your teachers have no integrity.

 

[Samson]

Parent Contact logs are part of our annual evaluation. Unreturned phone calls are documented as well.

I don't think teachers look for sympathy. Just a little respect. When a parent says "yeah I know. He doesn't do homework". That's the end of that "sustained" conversation. When a parent says, "yes he makes racist comments. He can't help it" That's the end of that conversation. When concerns are expressed over attendance and they say "He's 18 and has a car. I have no control". That's fine too.

Many students are enrolled in school simply to keep the welfare check rolling in. Many are enrolled to comply with the terms of their probation. And others are just there for the chicks.

A 100% graduation rate in a county with 15% unemployment and a huge substance abuse problem would be awfully suspicious to people with a half a brain. Yet there are some who think that is possible. Which it is - if your teachers have no integrity.

Respect, huh?

You mean, like Doctors, Lawyers, and Congressmen?

 

[chanel]

Yep. Teachers are becoming public enemy #1 in this state. Many believe it's an easy, part time job. I always say "Try it.". And of course they make don't half as much as doctors, lawyers, and congressmen. Or the porn surfers at the SEC. Yet they probably have the same amount of education...

 

[Samson]

Yep. Teachers are becoming public enemy #1 in this state. Many believe it's an easy, part time job. I always say "Try it.". And of course they make don't half as much as doctors, lawyers, and congressmen. Or the porn surfers at the SEC. Yet they probably have the same amount of education...

"Public Enemy #1?"

Oh Please, let's not be melodramatic.....pitch-fork bearing crowds are not menacing teachers in New Brunswick.

Like anything some teaching jobs are easier than others: Hell, I'd love teaching American History to Highschool Seniors.....after 5 years I'd have my whole fucking year planned down to the minute, grinding out every Thursday and Friday watching The History Channel, and giving a Weekly Quiz on Wednesday, and "Working on Projects" Monday and Tuesday.

SHEEEEEET!

 

[chanel]

Trust me on this Samson. For the first time in NJ history, a majority of school budgets were defeated. No pitchforks yet, but nasty comments abound on every article written on the issue. Gov. Christie is no friend to public schools and the people love him. The state is broke; the pension system is dry; and instead of blaming the politicians - people are blaming the teachers.

My brother teaches IB History in a very wealthy district. His website gets 6000 hits a year with students asking thought provoking questions. He loves his job.

I teach dyslexics, drug addicts, teen moms, sociopaths, and gang members British Literature. I love my job too. lol

 

[Big Fitz]

All this hullaballoo because the Union refused to pay 2% of their health costs in their plan.

Who's unreasonable here?

 

[Samson]

instead of blaming the politicians - people are blaming the teachers

Yes, my point is that teachers, in general, need to be better politicians ("public servants").

The Bergen County Education Association memo that included this closing prayer did not help:

“Dear Lord this year you have taken away my favorite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite actress, Farrah Fawcett, my favorite singer, Michael Jackson, and my favorite salesman, Billy Mays.

I just wanted to let you know that Chris Christie is my favorite governor.”

 

[RadiomanATL]

It is very much their responsiblitity to cater to parents.

No. Wrong.

It is their responsibility to cater to the continuing education of the child. A good teacher will keep a parent involved and up to date on progress of the child. It is up to the parent how involved they wish to get at that point.

A poor parent does not mean that they get to dictate how things are taught in the classroom, as you are suggesting.

 

[Samson]

It is very much their responsiblitity to cater to parents.

No. Wrong.

It is their responsibility to cater to the continuing education of the child. A good teacher will keep a parent involved and up to date on progress of the child. It is up to the parent how involved they wish to get at that point.

A poor parent does not mean that they get to dictate how things are taught in the classroom, as you are suggesting.

Whatever

There is a semantical difference between "catering" and "keeping a parent involved and up to date."