Graham - Obama no Christian - didn't hear it from me

[Kalam]

All believing Muslims acknowledge that jinn exist, but there are differences in opinion over the precise nature of these entities.

After all, Allah is just the djin "Ilah" of the black stone. A demon who would be god.

"Ilah" means "deity."

 

[Kalam]

I saw a link on here one time that showed Allah wasn't really God. It's just a lesser moon diety, not the Big Man Himself.

Ilah was the Moon god of the Mesopotamian Parthenon. The Kaaba in Mecca once housed the idols of all the major gods from Mesopotamia. Ilah was one of those gods, Djin really. When the Warlord Muhammad invaded and sacked Mecca, he destroyed the Kaaba and the idols there, WITH THE EXCEPTION of the black stone, the home of the Djin Ilah, who was referred to by the Warlord as Al-Ilah (the God.) Given that the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam, it's pretty clear the the Moon god Ilah and Allah are one and the same. Muhammad made the black stone the cornerstone of the rebuilt Kaaba. Muslims kiss the idol when they Hajj. It is the idol which Muslims bow to 5 times per day.

Nice research..........thanks for the info.

I'm not surprised you'd be willing to believe anything somebody made up about Islam.

"Allah" has always referred to the supreme deity; the sin of the pagans was worshiping lesser associate-gods alongside Him. He was never worshiped as a "moon deity" and the association of the crescent symbol with Islam began with the Ottomans' rise to power.

 

[Kalam]

"Moon god" is probably a reference to the patron deity of Quraysh, Hubal, of Moabite origin.

After that [Abu Sufyan] started reciting cheerfully, "O Hubal, be high!" On that the Prophet said (to his companions), "Why don't you answer him back?" They said, "O Messenger of God, what shall we say?" He said, "Say Allah is Highest and most Sublime." Abu Sufyan said, "We have Al-'Uzza (another idol), and you have no 'Uzza." The Prophet said, "Why don't you answer him back?" They asked, "O Messenger of God, what shall we say?" He said, "Say Allah is our Helper and you have no helper." (Bukhari)

Both idols were destroyed.

 

[Uncensored2008]

"Ilah" means "deity."

So does Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat..

Say does the Warlord mention these in the Koran?

 

[Kalam]

"Ilah" means "deity."

So does Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat..

Nope. The name of Al-Lat is similar but Al-'Uzza and Manat have completely different etymologies. Do you speak Arabic?

Say does the Warlord mention these in the Koran?

God does:

So have you seen Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza, and Manat, the third other? Is the male for you and the female for Him? This, then, is a division unfair. They are nothing but names called by you and your forefathers; Allah has not sent down upon it any authority. They (the polytheists) follow nothing but assumption and what their egos desire. And certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord. Or is it for man whatever he desires? [Nay,] so for Allah is the last and the first. (Surat un-Najm, aa. 19-25)​

Any more poorly constructed cutn'paste polemics?

 

[rdean]

Hey guys...

Is going to bars frequently part of the Christian experience?

Is eating pork a part of the Christian experience?

Is drinking a beer every day after a work a part of the Christian experience?

Is being obsessed with the politics of the day a part of the Christian experience?

Why/why not?

Just curious.

Is being a racist idiot a normal part of the atheist experience? My guess is no, bit I bet you think it is perfectly acceptable.

I patiently await your answers deflector.

Hope you are patient, because I suspect you are in for a "really" long wait.

 

[Bosun]

I really did not want to get started on this but it appears to me that Muhammad was a narcissist, my brother... He has developed an intricate system of “abrogation” or substitution of verses to justify his contradictory actions; one verse for another.

Case in point.

do you deny the abrogated verses in the qur'an my brother?

 

[Bosun]

I really did not want to get started on this but it appears to me that Muhammad was a narcissist, my brother... He has developed an intricate system of “abrogation” or substitution of verses to justify his contradictory actions; one verse for another.

What religious book has man ever written that wasn't full of contradictions?

unless you are willing to join in some deep discussions, stay off the decks, bro... i mentioned muhammad possibly being an narcissist and the abrogation of qur'anic verses and you decide to spout your atheism.... maybe there are some things afoot that go beyond your comprehension... atheists, gays, polytheists, infidels, people of the book, and unbelievers are all painted in the same target, dr. drock.... some of my brother and sister do not believe in anything. but, as apostates they have seen some glimmer of truth....

 

[Bosun]

Shame we can't talk about this without degrading to immature responses. Such is life i guess.

by just your comment, we are talking about it. there is so much to cover... sometimes we can disagree, but, the journey to truth and understanding can move forward... thank you for calling it like you see it, and to remain civil.... hope that others will take note and join in....

 

[Kalam]

I really did not want to get started on this but it appears to me that Muhammad was a narcissist, my brother... He has developed an intricate system of “abrogation” or substitution of verses to justify his contradictory actions; one verse for another.

Case in point.

do you deny the abrogated verses in the qur'an my brother?

I deny that you know anything about naskh or how that sort of thing is determined.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nope. The name of Al-Lat is similar but Al-'Uzza and Manat have completely different etymologies. Do you speak Arabic?

Irrelevant.

Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat are the daughters of Ilah. Ilah was the head of the Parthenon (Ergo the name.)

Again note that Islam has the emblem of the moon god as it's symbol. Note that Muslims do bow to the Phalic or black stone in the Kaaba. Note that Muslims do kiss the Phalic stone when they Hajj. Note that the Phalic stone IS the cornerstone of the Kaaba, the idol of power which Muslims claim sends sensations when the kiss it.

God does:

The Warlord is not a god, he was just an evil man.

So you knew full well that what I posted was entirely true but sought to deceive. I take it you are a Muslim, yes?

Any more poorly constructed cutn'paste polemics?

When Muslims murdered our Marines in Beruit, I became interested in what it was that drove Muslims to be murderous savages. Over 30 years, I've learned a great deal about the death cult of Islam

Some interesting facts like the name of the djin the Muslims serve was known in ancient Assyria as "Sin." Of course the Muslim god was known to the Hebrews as "Ba'al."

 

[Kalam]

Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat are the daughters of Ilah. Ilah was the head of the Parthenon (Ergo the name.)

No figure was ever referred to as "Ilah." The subordinate deities were generally considered to be Allah's issue or related to him somehow in the minds of the polytheists, just as various deities such as Asherah (or Elat, corresponding to Al-Lat) 'Anat, and Dagon were associated with the Supreme deity by the polytheists of the Hebrews before they were set aright by the revelation delivered by Moses (a.)

Again note that Islam has the emblem of the moon god as it's symbol.

Nope. The association of the crescent with Islam began with the Ottomans and not before.

Note that Muslims do bow to the Phalic or black stone in the Kaaba. Note that Muslims do kiss the Phalic stone when they Hajj. Note that the Phalic stone IS the cornerstone of the Kaaba, the idol of power which Muslims claim sends sensations when the kiss it.

Ho hum.

'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Bukhari)​

So you knew full well that what I posted was entirely true but sought to deceive. I take it you are a Muslim, yes?

Unless your IQ score is just south of retarded (a possibility I certainly haven't ruled out), I don't see how it would be possible to interpret the passage I posted as supporting any of your nonsensical claims. It establishes that the idols are "nothing but names," confirming that God has no offspring in accordance with Surat ul-Ikhlas -- "Say: He, Allah, is One. He Begets not, nor was He begotten, and none is like Him." Try reading it again.

When Muslims murdered our Marines in Beruit, I became interested in what it was that drove Muslims to be murderous savages. Over 30 years, I've learned a great deal about the death cult of Islam

And yet you speak no Arabic and are unfamiliar with even the most basic aspects of the religion and its history. Very impressive.

Some interesting facts like the name of the djin the Muslims serve was known in ancient Assyria as "Sin." Of course the Muslim god was known to the Hebrews as "Ba'al."

Not really. I suppose I should also point out that the idols weren't jinn, but you don't seem to be too concerned over getting your facts straight.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No figure was ever referred to as "Ilah."

Islam has a great deal to do.

Many must be murdered and huge amounts of historical proof must be destroyed before you can erase history.

{ According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his
title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among
the gods. As Goon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of
the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al-ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave
to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names. The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Professor Goon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being" (Morey, pp. 10-11).}

The subordinate deities were generally considered to be Allah's issue or related to him somehow in the minds of the polytheists, just as various deities such as Asherah (or Elat, corresponding to Al-Lat) 'Anat, and Dagon were associated with the Supreme deity by the polytheists of the Hebrews before they were set aright by the revelation delivered by Moses (a.)

Yet the Warlord Muhammad makes reference to these and even speaks of "Swearing by the Moon."

Nope. The association of the crescent with Islam began with the Ottomans and not before.

It was the symbol of Muslims in Constantinople prior to the Ottomans conquering the city/state. It is this which led the Ottomans to adopt it.

Unless your IQ score is just south of retarded (a possibility I certainly haven't ruled out), I don't see how it would be possible to interpret the passage I posted as supporting any of your nonsensical claims.

Unless your IQ is just south of retarded (a likelihood) you would note that I did not quote nor mention said passage.

{# "Before Muhammad appeared, the Kaaba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in jinn (subtle beings), and some vague divinity with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat ("the Goddess"), worshiped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah ("the Mighty"), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Talf and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny,
worshiped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the Kaaba. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come from the moon. (No scientific investigation has ever been performed on the stone. In 930, the stone was removed and shattered by an Iraqi sect of Qarmatians, but the pieces were later returned. The pieces, sealed in pitch and held in place by silver wire, measure about 10 inches in diameter altogether and several feet high; they are venerated today in patched-together form.)" (The Joy of Sects, Peter Occhigrosso, 1996) }


{# At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet’s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. Hubal and more than 300 others made up the pantheon. The central shrine at Mekka was the Kaaba, a cube like stone structure which still stands though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of the pilgrimage." (Meet the Arab, John Van Ess, 1943, p. 29.) }


{At the end of the second [circumabulation of the Kaaba], I was granted one of those extraordinary moments which sometimes occur around the Black Stone. As I approached the Corner the large crowd was suddenly pushed back by a strong man who had just kissed the Black Stone. This push generated a backward current, creating a momentary opening around the Black Stone as I came to it; I swiftly accepted the opportunity reciting, Bismillahi Allahu akbar wa lillahi-hamd ["In the name of God, God is great, all praise to God"], put my hands on the Black Stone and kissed it. Thousands of silver lines sparkled, the Stone glistened, and something stirred deep inside me. A few seconds passed. Then I was pushed away by the guard.[23]}

Black Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet you speak no Arabic

Do you speak German? Wird dann Hitler vom Unrecht gerechtfertigt und absolviert?

One need not speak German to understand that Nazism was abhorrent. Logical fallacy does nothing to further your argument.

 

[California Girl]

So the son of Bill Graham is bearing false witness...and he did it on Easter Sunday? It don't get any better than that!

Actually, no, he wasn't. Rdean was, as usual, spinning facts to suit his agenda. If you were intelligent enough to read the full transcript, you'd know that. However, please don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I really did not want to get started on this but it appears to me that Muhammad was a narcissist, my brother... He has developed an intricate system of “abrogation” or substitution of verses to justify his contradictory actions; one verse for another.

What religious book has man ever written that wasn't full of contradictions?

unless you are willing to join in some deep discussions, stay off the decks, bro... i mentioned muhammad possibly being an narcissist and the abrogation of qur'anic verses and you decide to spout your atheism.... maybe there are some things afoot that go beyond your comprehension... atheists, gays, polytheists, infidels, people of the book, and unbelievers are all painted in the same target, dr. drock.... some of my brother and sister do not believe in anything. but, as apostates they have seen some glimmer of truth....

Speaking of narcissists, how's Trump and Palin working out for ya?

 

[sinister59]

So this woman interviewer with a Middle Eastern background, Christine A - something was interviewing the son of Billy Graham. She asked him if Obama was a Christian.

Graham said, "Obama told me he goes to a Christian Church so that PROVES he's a Christian. But to me, you have to follow the teachings of Christ which Obama clearly doesn't, and that is the ONLY way you can be a Christian, not just go to a church".

Then Christine said, "So then, is Obama a Christian?"

Then Graham said, "Well, he says he is. It's not for me to question another person's faith".

And yet, wasn't that just what he was doing? Not only did he question it, it "clearly" sounded as if he was saying Obama is not a Christian.

hmm billy worshiped satan , but you didn't hear it from me .

 

[Bosun]

Case in point.

do you deny the abrogated verses in the qur'an my brother?

I deny that you know anything about naskh or how that sort of thing is determined.

I've been called an infidel mushrik in the past... still does not account for a narcissist's abrogated verses, bro...

as the narcissist accumulated victories and the spoils that inevitably followed his caravan raiding and warring, he soon realized that this was a far more effective method of gaining power than begging the mushrikûn to accept that he was the final chain in a line of prophets that extended all the way back to Adam.

would you deny that the channeled verses he received from gabriel become hateful and vicious and bloodthirsty; almost without exception, the peaceful verses are revealed while the narcissist sojourned in mecca, while violent verses were revealed in yathrib?

even the "no compulsion" in religion verse (qur'an 2:256) was revealed just after the narcassist arrived in yathrib المدينة (al-madīnah), and was abrogated several times over, most notably by the entire 9th surah.

 

[Bosun]

do you deny the abrogated verses in the qur'an my brother?

I deny that you know anything about naskh or how that sort of thing is determined.

I've been called an infidel mushrik in the past... still does not account for a narcissist's abrogated verses, bro...

as the narcissist accumulated victories and the spoils that inevitably followed his caravan raiding and warring, he soon realized that this was a far more effective method of gaining power than begging the mushrikûn to accept that he was the final chain in a line of prophets that extended all the way back to Adam.

would you deny that the channeled verses he received from gabriel become hateful and vicious and bloodthirsty; almost without exception, the peaceful verses are revealed while the narcissist sojourned in mecca, while violent verses were revealed in yathrib?

even the "no compulsion" in religion verse (qur'an 2:256) was revealed just after the narcissist arrived in yathrib المدينة (al-madīnah), and was abrogated several times over, most notably by the entire 9th surah.

please enlighten me on the 9th surah, at-tawab...... why is the bismillah absent? some claim that at-tawab was tampered with or it was not really the true word of allah.... if it was not, why is it included in the qur'an? if it is an abrogation of previous recitations, would it illustrate that allah makes mistakes, or maybe, the narcissist may have been flawed?

 

[Bosun]

What religious book has man ever written that wasn't full of contradictions?

unless you are willing to join in some deep discussions, stay off the decks, bro... i mentioned muhammad possibly being an narcissist and the abrogation of qur'anic verses and you decide to spout your atheism.... maybe there are some things afoot that go beyond your comprehension... atheists, gays, polytheists, infidels, people of the book, and unbelievers are all painted in the same target, dr. drock.... some of my brother and sister do not believe in anything. but, as apostates they have seen some glimmer of truth....

Speaking of narcissists, how's Trump and Palin working out for ya?

are you still upset when i urinated in your wheaties, shipmate? lets talk about islam, muhammad, narcassism, and abrogation, bro... talk about shifting the conversation, you pumping bilge water into your day tanks?

 

[AllieBaba]

Again, why does anyone in a Politics message board, care what "Bill Graham's son" said about our POTUS?

The Christian Right goes to great lengths to comingle religion and politics.

Er...ok.
You do remember Wright? Now..do you think he's right...or left?