Government Regulations Discussion (Philosophical and/or Constitutional)

[Skull Pilot]

Geez, looks like Skull Pilot has lots and lots of problems.

Maybe he should change his name to Skull Fucked.

I'd rather be me than a sheep or an ostrich like most of you idiots.

 

[Citizen]

More Heartland misinformation.

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.

You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

Personally, I do not want anything for free, but I do want the federal government to be returned to its original role, as spelled out in our Constitution, which would eliminate the need for the vast majority of federal taxes.

I believe we should pay for what we get, and if we can not afford something we should not expect the government to provide it for us.

This country was created and built upon individual responsibility, not on government handouts.

We used to be a nation of people that when we could not afford something we did without, or waited until we could afford it, in lieu of expecting the government to provide it for us by taking away money from others to pay for it, but now we have become a nation of entitlements.

 

[Paulie]

Alright Mani, as promised...

What things are you ok with the government (i.e. the people) regulating?

They can regulate anything specifically mentioned in the constitution, including commerce and general welfare of the people. Those two items though are obviously vague, and BECAUSE of that, I believe that erring on the side of minimalism in regards to how they are used as justification is the right way to go about things.

This leads me into these next two questions..

What things are you not ok with the government regulating?

Is there a litmus test concerning acceptable vs not acceptable regulation in your opinion?

Those go hand in hand, because the litmus test should be how necessary the public as a whole thinks any proposed regulation actually is. So what is not acceptable should be what is most opposed by the people.

I support the FDA, for instance. I think they serve a purpose under both commerce and general welfare. I do think they overstep their necessary bounds at times, and I happen to think it would be rather impossible to control that without the undivided attention of the public as a whole. Of course, we know we'll never have the undivided attention of the public on issues as important as those, when the public seems to care more about TV commercial volume levels

What basically happens is that government KNOWS we don't care enough as a collective to demand regulation as we see fit, so they take advantage of that and regulate whatever the hell they want. The people complain about corporate lobbyists and special interests, but yet, they don't want to get off their fat fucking asses and lobby the government themselves. The special interests that some people seem to hate so much are simply a collective of people that started out as a few people who cared enough to take that initiative to begin with. If you really care about the issues, form a group and push your issues. If they're received well by the public, more people will join. Start a fucking movement or shut the fuck up.

Anyway, I'm rambling so I digress.

An example of regulation that is not acceptable to me is how OSHA regulates job worksites. I've seen OSHA come onto a job site and literally fine an employer of a SMALL BUSINESS, tens of thousands of dollars because a ladder was outdated, or because there wasn't a specific kind of harness that OSHA says is required. Having been in the business as long as I have, the kind of harness they required for that job was unnecessary. I think there's a certain amount of responsibility that falls on the worker to not be an idiot while working on a platform. I've worked on platforms for years and never fallen, because I'm careful. Precaution on the part of the individual goes a long way. You don't always need a lifeline.

Do your philosophical/ideological views on the matter differ from your understanding of what is acceptable constitutionally?

This is a strange question, because what is considered acceptable is obviously what is being debated to begin with. So the whole answer to this is subjective regardless.

 

[manifold]

Apparently I was mistaken. It turns out I actually don't give a shit what you think.
































just kidding

























No I'm not.































I'll read it later, right now I gotta run!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

Well, that was a stupid post

 

[Skull Pilot]

More Heartland misinformation.

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.

You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

I just saw the lazy bum(b) remark

Let me tell you a little about me.

I've been working at least 40 hours a week since I was 16

At 21 I started a business with 5000 dollars

While I was doing this I graduated magna cum laude with 2 Bachelor degrees

at 27 I sold that business for 50,000 dollars

I am a licensed Insurance underwriter and financial adviser and was self employed for years but do not perform those duties anymore

recently my wife and I opened another business with our own money. No SBA or government backed loans and are working nonstop to make it successful. In fact we broke over a million in revenues after being open only 2.5 years

So go look in the mirror if you want to call someone lazy because you ain't talking to me.

I have been self employed almost my entire adult life and have never worked less than 60 hours a week

I have saved diligently to secure my financial well being my entire life and I want to keep what's mine.

 

[Anguille]

I believe we should pay for what we get, and if we can not afford something we should not expect the government to provide it for us.

I wish Wall Street felt that way.

 

[Anguille]

the same numbers are found via the tax foundation the link to which I already provided but here it is again if you care to take your head out of the sand long enough to look.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

You ostriches just can't believe that the benevolent government takes more money from you annually than you spend on anything else.

You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

I just saw the lazy bum(b) remark

Let me tell you a little about me.

I've been working at least 40 hours a week since I was 16

At 21 I started a business with 5000 dollars

While I was doing this I graduated magna cum laude with 2 Bachelor degrees

at 27 I sold that business for 50,000 dollars

I am a licensed Insurance underwriter and financial adviser and was self employed for years but do not perform those duties anymore

recently my wife and I opened another business with our own money. No SBA or government backed loans and are working nonstop to make it successful. In fact we broke over a million in revenues after being open only 2.5 years

So go look in the mirror if you want to call someone lazy because you ain't talking to me.

I have been self employed almost my entire adult life and have never worked less than 60 hours a week

I have saved diligently to secure my financial well being my entire life and I want to keep what's mine.

And you could have done it all just as easily if you had been born a Somali in Somalia.

You owe more to this country than you could ever imagine.

 

[JakeStarkey]

skull pilot's success is dependent upon our culture as well as upon his hard work. The social compact demands more than maximizing opportunity, SP, it requires you paying back.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You ungrateful spoiled child whines about having to pay taxes. You want it all for free. Lazy bum!

I just saw the lazy bum(b) remark

Let me tell you a little about me.

I've been working at least 40 hours a week since I was 16

At 21 I started a business with 5000 dollars

While I was doing this I graduated magna cum laude with 2 Bachelor degrees

at 27 I sold that business for 50,000 dollars

I am a licensed Insurance underwriter and financial adviser and was self employed for years but do not perform those duties anymore

recently my wife and I opened another business with our own money. No SBA or government backed loans and are working nonstop to make it successful. In fact we broke over a million in revenues after being open only 2.5 years

So go look in the mirror if you want to call someone lazy because you ain't talking to me.

I have been self employed almost my entire adult life and have never worked less than 60 hours a week

I have saved diligently to secure my financial well being my entire life and I want to keep what's mine.

And you could have done it all just as easily if you had been born a Somali in Somalia.

You owe more to this country than you could ever imagine.

I did it here so Somalia is irrelevant,

I did it all by myself. I took no government handouts to get where I am. While I was working more than anyone else I knew, i was paying my taxes.

I have never pocketed cash from any business I have owned.

But now we see the government wanting more and more of what we earn and for what?

I certainly did not use enough government services to justify taxes being my single largest annual expense.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull pilot's success is dependent upon our culture as well as upon his hard work. The social compact demands more than maximizing opportunity, SP, it requires you paying back.

I've paid all along the way. I never cheated on my taxes and claimed every dime I have ever earned.

I will gladly pay for the government services I use and for the few enumerated duties of the government spelled out in the Constitution but currently the government is increasing its take and to do what I ask?

But for me to be taxed so as to spread the wealth, my wealth that I risked everything to get and that I worked for, to someone else is theft plain and simple.

And we see that taxes will rise further to fuel the expansion of government in to every area of our lives and you are happy to keep paying.

Well I'm not. Government already gets the lion's share of what I earn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

skull pilot's success is dependent upon our culture as well as upon his hard work. The social compact demands more than maximizing opportunity, SP, it requires you paying back.

I've paid all along the way. I never cheated on my taxes and claimed every dime I have ever earned.

I will gladly pay for the government services I use and for the few enumerated duties of the government spelled out in the Constitution but currently the government is increasing its take and to do what I ask?

But for me to be taxed so as to spread the wealth, my wealth that I risked everything to get and that I worked for, to someone else is theft plain and simple.

And we see that taxes will rise further to fuel the expansion of government in to every area of our lives and you are happy to keep paying.

Well I'm not. Government already gets the lion's share of what I earn.

Redistribution of wealth: I keep hearing this. So give me examples of this, please.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull pilot's success is dependent upon our culture as well as upon his hard work. The social compact demands more than maximizing opportunity, SP, it requires you paying back.

I've paid all along the way. I never cheated on my taxes and claimed every dime I have ever earned.

I will gladly pay for the government services I use and for the few enumerated duties of the government spelled out in the Constitution but currently the government is increasing its take and to do what I ask?

But for me to be taxed so as to spread the wealth, my wealth that I risked everything to get and that I worked for, to someone else is theft plain and simple.

And we see that taxes will rise further to fuel the expansion of government in to every area of our lives and you are happy to keep paying.

Well I'm not. Government already gets the lion's share of what I earn.

Redistribution of wealth: I keep hearing this. So give me examples of this, please.

How about forcing me to buy health insurance and paying more than I would normally would because instead of the high deductible policy i have now I have to buy the insurance the government tells me to buy so it can subsidize someone else's premiums at my expense.

Is that not one example of giving my wealth to one who has not earned it?

How about Social Security where our money is funding a system that would be illegal in the private sector?

I'll never see the return on what I paid into SS that I would have seen if that money was kept in a privately owned account.

How about me paying a higher percentage of my income in taxes than soemeone else who doesn't work as hard as I do so i can subsidize their kids' college education

Is that not my wealth they are using?

How about the government backing bad loans that will never get paid back because people were too fucking stupid not to realize they couldn't afford them?

Those government guarantees come from the taxes I pay and are used to bail out someone else

Is that not my wealth government is using to cover the cost of another's stupidity?

Get you head out of the sand

 

[JakeStarkey]

skull, your head is the one in the sand like an ostrich. Touch the elders Medicare and Social Security, and they will make sure you are taxed out of existence. No, that is not redistribution of wealth. You want to find out: go live in Cuba or North Korea. Then you will have the cred to talk about it.

 

[manifold]

Alright Mani, as promised...

What things are you ok with the government (i.e. the people) regulating?

They can regulate anything specifically mentioned in the constitution, including commerce and general welfare of the people. Those two items though are obviously vague, and BECAUSE of that, I believe that erring on the side of minimalism in regards to how they are used as justification is the right way to go about things.

This leads me into these next two questions..

What things are you not ok with the government regulating?

Is there a litmus test concerning acceptable vs not acceptable regulation in your opinion?

Those go hand in hand, because the litmus test should be how necessary the public as a whole thinks any proposed regulation actually is. So what is not acceptable should be what is most opposed by the people.

I support the FDA, for instance. I think they serve a purpose under both commerce and general welfare. I do think they overstep their necessary bounds at times, and I happen to think it would be rather impossible to control that without the undivided attention of the public as a whole. Of course, we know we'll never have the undivided attention of the public on issues as important as those, when the public seems to care more about TV commercial volume levels

What basically happens is that government KNOWS we don't care enough as a collective to demand regulation as we see fit, so they take advantage of that and regulate whatever the hell they want. The people complain about corporate lobbyists and special interests, but yet, they don't want to get off their fat fucking asses and lobby the government themselves. The special interests that some people seem to hate so much are simply a collective of people that started out as a few people who cared enough to take that initiative to begin with. If you really care about the issues, form a group and push your issues. If they're received well by the public, more people will join. Start a fucking movement or shut the fuck up.

Anyway, I'm rambling so I digress.

An example of regulation that is not acceptable to me is how OSHA regulates job worksites. I've seen OSHA come onto a job site and literally fine an employer of a SMALL BUSINESS, tens of thousands of dollars because a ladder was outdated, or because there wasn't a specific kind of harness that OSHA says is required. Having been in the business as long as I have, the kind of harness they required for that job was unnecessary. I think there's a certain amount of responsibility that falls on the worker to not be an idiot while working on a platform. I've worked on platforms for years and never fallen, because I'm careful. Precaution on the part of the individual goes a long way. You don't always need a lifeline.

Do your philosophical/ideological views on the matter differ from your understanding of what is acceptable constitutionally?

This is a strange question, because what is considered acceptable is obviously what is being debated to begin with. So the whole answer to this is subjective regardless.

Thanks Paulie. I tried to rep you but couldn't.

I pretty much agree with you on the general principle, but of course I would expect to disagree here and there concerning what it necessary and what isn't.

As for the last point, I think I should clarify and I'll try with an example. The Second Amendment. If I'm to be objective and intellectually honest, I interpret the 2nd Amendment to permit individuals to bear any arms they can acquire, up to and including a death star. But I do not philosophically or idealogically support an individual's right to build nuclear weapons.

 

[manifold]

Jesus Christ!

I didn't mean to interrupt the cripple fight currently underway.

Carry on.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull, your head is the one in the sand like an ostrich. Touch the elders Medicare and Social Security, and they will make sure you are taxed out of existence. No, that is not redistribution of wealth. You want to find out: go live in Cuba or North Korea. Then you will have the cred to talk about it.

I don't want anyone else's SS I want to be able to control the 15% of my lifetime earnings the government uses to fund an illegal Ponzi scam.

They can do what they will with their money.

 

[kyzr]

skull, your head is the one in the sand like an ostrich. Touch the elders Medicare and Social Security, and they will make sure you are taxed out of existence. No, that is not redistribution of wealth. You want to find out: go live in Cuba or North Korea. Then you will have the cred to talk about it.

I don't want anyone else's SS I want to be able to control the 15% of my lifetime earnings the government uses to fund an illegal Ponzi scam. They can do what they will with their money.

IMHO we need to level the playing field. Right now the govt workers get cadillac plans and we get bankrupt medicare, they get cushy retirement, and we get bankrupt SS. We need ALLLLL pension plans funded thru SS and everyone paying into Medicare.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull, your head is the one in the sand like an ostrich. Touch the elders Medicare and Social Security, and they will make sure you are taxed out of existence. No, that is not redistribution of wealth. You want to find out: go live in Cuba or North Korea. Then you will have the cred to talk about it.

I don't want anyone else's SS I want to be able to control the 15% of my lifetime earnings the government uses to fund an illegal Ponzi scam. They can do what they will with their money.

IMHO we need to level the playing field. Right now the govt workers get cadillac plans and we get bankrupt medicare, they get cushy retirement, and we get bankrupt SS. We need ALLLLL pension plans funded thru SS and everyone paying into Medicare.

Not at all. We need to be able to keep the money the government takes from us and hold it in accounts we own. Then we won't need SS or medicare.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sorry, sp, that is not how a modern, informed democracy works in the 21st century, either here or in Europe. You are not an individual alone, but an individual in a country of more than 300 million people bound by culture, tradtion, and history. Disagree all you want, which is your right, but I doubt very much America is going to move down your path.