GOP may "leverage" debt ceiling against de-funding Obamacare

[Stephanie]

Yup, the Republicans will attempt blackmail, and then blame the little old lady for getting herself killed because she wouldn't let go of her purse.

oh brother...blackmail...you haven't changed

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is a sensible conservative talking there, TemplarKormac, and I appreciate it.

My point is that 'libertarianism' has no solid center and set of principles. Yet. And I suspect that it is more socially liberal than many reactionaries will accept.

But time will tell.

the vast majority of libertarians want smaller federal govt, lower taxes, less govt intrusion into our daily lives, sensible foreign policy, sensible fiscal policy, constitutional govt, individual freedom, individual responsibility.

Not really very complex. What to you want jake?

No one speaks for most libertarians, Redfish. Sheesh, I watch you guys squabble here on what you "want". All of your buzz terms above are nice, but why don't you give us some examples of each. Thanks.

 

[Redfish]

That is a sensible conservative talking there, TemplarKormac, and I appreciate it.

My point is that 'libertarianism' has no solid center and set of principles. Yet. And I suspect that it is more socially liberal than many reactionaries will accept.

But time will tell.

the vast majority of libertarians want smaller federal govt, lower taxes, less govt intrusion into our daily lives, sensible foreign policy, sensible fiscal policy, constitutional govt, individual freedom, individual responsibility.

Not really very complex. What to you want jake?

No one speaks for most libertarians, Redfish. Sheesh, I watch you guys squabble here on what you "want". All of your buzz terms above are nice, but why don't you give us some examples of each. Thanks.

gladly:

smaller federal govt-------eliminate DOE, DOed, EPA, TSA, cut federal employees by 25%, cut congressional staffs by 50%, cut congressional salaries by 50%, no retirement pay for congress, repeal obamacare

lower taxes----a smaller govt will need less funding, taxes can be cut for everyone

less govt intrusion into our lives----repeal obamacare, restrict the NSA, let the free market work on alternative energy

sensible foreign policy-----stop trying to police the world, make our trading partners play fair or shut them out of our markets

sensible fiscal policy----balance the federal budget, no more deficit spending, audit the FED

constitutional govt-----pretty obvious

individual freedom and responsibility-------real freedom includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. It is not the role of the govt to bail out every person or business that fails

Now, what do YOU want?

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is not mainstream conservatism, only a call to return to a 19th century reactionary America.

Not going to happen.

 

[Redfish]

That is not mainstream conservatism, only a call to return to a 19th century reactionary America.

Not going to happen.

screw you and your facination with the word reactionary. I gave you an honest answer to your question and as usual you come back with some crap, and the things I listed are mainstream libertarianism------you did not ask about conservatism

so one more chance------------how, specifically, do you want the country to change?

 

[Zoom-boing]

You are one of the sensible conservatives on the Board. I also understand fully that you guys cannot agree on what are your 'libertarian' principles and your proposals. The one caution I have is that following 'libertarian' principles and candidates will continue a losing pattern for the GOP at the national level.

If you can create your own national party, TK, good for you, and I applaud it. But the mainstream of the party won't go your way.

Then the mainstream of the GOP better get back to being fiscal conservatives or they will continue to lose people to the L party or they simply will not vote. Either way, the GOP will lose.

Sensible fiscal policies, yes, and more socially liberal as well. The old way of social conservatism will not wash with the millenials and older generations of young people.

Along with many of the TPM I would like to see the neo-cons leave and be replaced with a much more neo-isolationistic foreign policy.

But, yes, the GOP is going to change or it will die. Going to the far reactionary right will result in political death for the party.

Conservative. Oh wait, that is sensible. Never mind.

Socially moderate.

Socially liberal is Dem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is not mainstream conservatism, only a call to return to a 19th century reactionary America.

Not going to happen.

screw you and your facination with the word reactionary. I gave you an honest answer to your question and as usual you come back with some crap, and the things I listed are mainstream libertarianism------you did not ask about conservatism

so one more chance------------how, specifically, do you want the country to change?

What? I defined what your call is for: a reactionary America of the 1890s. That worl is gone forever, Redfish.

I have said repeatedly I voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state. He was the best of a lousy set of candidates.

I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.

The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.

I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.

I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.

I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

 

[Zoom-boing]

That is not mainstream conservatism, only a call to return to a 19th century reactionary America.

Not going to happen.

screw you and your facination with the word reactionary. I gave you an honest answer to your question and as usual you come back with some crap, and the things I listed are mainstream libertarianism------you did not ask about conservatism

so one more chance------------how, specifically, do you want the country to change?

What? I defined what your call is for: a reactionary America of the 1890s. That worl is gone forever, Redfish.

I have said repeatedly I voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state. He was the best of a lousy set of candidates.

I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.

The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.

I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.

I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.

I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

Jake, all the social items you listed are not liberal, they are conservative to moderate.

 

[Ernie S.]

That is a sensible conservative talking there, TemplarKormac, and I appreciate it.

My point is that 'libertarianism' has no solid center and set of principles. Yet. And I suspect that it is more socially liberal than many reactionaries will accept.

But time will tell.

the vast majority of libertarians want smaller federal govt, lower taxes, less govt intrusion into our daily lives, sensible foreign policy, sensible fiscal policy, constitutional govt, individual freedom, individual responsibility.

Not really very complex. What to you want jake?

Jake wants credibility and relevance. He has neither.

 

[dblack]

And just a side note, I will neg the first person who says I'm sucking up to him. ..

I wouldn't say you are sucking "up" to him.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And just a side note, I will neg the first person who says I'm sucking up to him. ..

I wouldn't say you are sucking "up" to him.

I guess I could be accused of trying to keep the peace then...

 

[dblack]

And just a side note, I will neg the first person who says I'm sucking up to him. ..

I wouldn't say you are sucking "up" to him.

I guess I could be accused of trying to keep the peace then...

It was a gracious gesture.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That is a sensible conservative talking there, TemplarKormac, and I appreciate it.

My point is that 'libertarianism' has no solid center and set of principles. Yet. And I suspect that it is more socially liberal than many reactionaries will accept.

But time will tell.

the vast majority of libertarians want smaller federal govt, lower taxes, less govt intrusion into our daily lives, sensible foreign policy, sensible fiscal policy, constitutional govt, individual freedom, individual responsibility.

Not really very complex. What to you want jake?

Jake wants credibility and relevance. He has neither.

You have described yourself, Ernie S. You will never be credible or relevant.

It is what it is.

 

[Redfish]

OK. The GOP doesn't like the ACA. But what we have right now is way more expensive, per capita, than in the other 18 industrial democracies, fails to cover a significant percentage of our citizens, and has a much poorer outcome. Our infant mortality is third world.

So what is the GOP solution? "Let him die, let him die".

Yes, we will eventually get a universal single payer health care system. Call it anything you want, a great many citizens of this nation will be calling it a godsend. And, like Social Security, the GOP will find themselves on the losing end of progress once again.

Do you really believe that the system in the UK, Canada, Germany, FRance, and Russia is better than ours? If so, why do people from those countries come to the USA when they have serious illnesses?

Do you really believe that the government can manage your healthcare better than you and your doctor?

The problem is that you fools think its going to the FREE for you and some evil rich guy will be paying your bills---------NOT, you will be paying and the care will be crappy.

 

[Redfish]

That is not mainstream conservatism, only a call to return to a 19th century reactionary America.

Not going to happen.

screw you and your facination with the word reactionary. I gave you an honest answer to your question and as usual you come back with some crap, and the things I listed are mainstream libertarianism------you did not ask about conservatism

so one more chance------------how, specifically, do you want the country to change?

What? I defined what your call is for: a reactionary America of the 1890s. That worl is gone forever, Redfish.

I have said repeatedly I voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state. He was the best of a lousy set of candidates.

I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.

The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.

I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.

I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.

I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

if true, those are things that we agree on. However, you would gain some credibility if you would cease the foolish use of the word "reactionary" when referring to anyone who dares disagree with chairman maobama and the socialists in DC.

 

[JakeStarkey]

screw you and your facination with the word reactionary. I gave you an honest answer to your question and as usual you come back with some crap, and the things I listed are mainstream libertarianism------you did not ask about conservatism

so one more chance------------how, specifically, do you want the country to change?

What? I defined what your call is for: a reactionary America of the 1890s. That worl is gone forever, Redfish.

I have said repeatedly I voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state. He was the best of a lousy set of candidates.

I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.

The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.

I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.

I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.

I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

if true, those are things that we agree on. However, you would gain some credibility if you would cease the foolish use of the word "reactionary" when referring to anyone who dares disagree with chairman maobama and the socialists in DC.

I am credible with mainstream Republicans. You need to be credible to me, and you are not, at least not yet. You, as none mainstream and far far to the right, have trouble with being aptly labeled "reactionary". You react with the same dismay the lefties do when called "liberals".

 

[drivebymedia]

I am credible with mainstream Republicans. You need to be credible to me, and you are not, at least not yet. You, as none mainstream and far far to the right, have trouble with being aptly labeled "reactionary". You react with the same dismay the lefties do when called "liberals".

Oh if politics were as simple as Republicans blaming liberals for their hatred of each other and their opposing agendas !

 

[Redfish]

I am credible with mainstream Republicans. You need to be credible to me, and you are not, at least not yet. You, as none mainstream and far far to the right, have trouble with being aptly labeled "reactionary". You react with the same dismay the lefties do when called "liberals".

Oh if politics were as simple as Republicans blaming liberals for their hatred of each other and their opposing agendas !

the difference is that republicans, conservatives, and libertarians think for themselves, hold strong opinions and are true to their beliefs. Yes, that sometimes results in a division within the GOP, but when the cards are on the table the GOP will merge and will remove the marxist stink that is permeating DC.

Democrats and liberals do not think for themselves, they are mindless sheep who just parrot the drivel and bullshit put out by their handlers. They are slaves to the progressive agenda and are incapable of individual thinking.

as to who are the haters-------one only needs to read the posts of the libs on this message board to see where the hate resides.

 

[Redfish]

What? I defined what your call is for: a reactionary America of the 1890s. That worl is gone forever, Redfish.

I have said repeatedly I voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state. He was the best of a lousy set of candidates.

I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.

The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.

I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.

I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.

I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

if true, those are things that we agree on. However, you would gain some credibility if you would cease the foolish use of the word "reactionary" when referring to anyone who dares disagree with chairman maobama and the socialists in DC.

I am credible with mainstream Republicans. You need to be credible to me, and you are not, at least not yet. You, as none mainstream and far far to the right, have trouble with being aptly labeled "reactionary". You react with the same dismay the lefties do when called "liberals".

I don't really care if you find me credible or not. I believe what I believe and I don't give a shit if you or anyone else agrees. I know what is right and what is wrong, I know what works and what does not work. I have studied history and see that the USA is following the pattern of all of the great civilizations of the past that have failed.

Your use of the work reactionary just removes what little credibility you might have. Grow up, lose the stupid insults, and have a mature discussion of what is destroying our great country. Hint------its not "reactionaries"

 

[drivebymedia]

Back on topic: Republican talk of "leverage" (ne blackmail) is so much more of their "feel good" pap - like Tom Coburns threat of 'impeachment'

Republicans have 80 votes in the House and 13 in the Senate to leverage defunding ACA against shutting own Government - and it is likely these votes will shrink as Republicans become more strident in their cockamamie stunts.

Republicans are divided on the political wisdom of threatening a government shutdown over the issue. North Carolina’s Republican Senator Richard Burr called it “the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of.”