GOP may "leverage" debt ceiling against de-funding Obamacare

[dblack]

Now if Reid would grow a pair? WE would be rid of this asswipe in the Whitehouse that cares not for the rule of law much less the Constitution.

That's a big "if". But I do think the key to saving our nation will be finding common ground between sensible people in both parties.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Now if Reid would grow a pair? WE would be rid of this asswipe in the Whitehouse that cares not for the rule of law much less the Constitution.

That's a big "if". But I do think the key to saving our nation will be finding common ground between sensible people in both parties.

We would not have ACA if Dems and Pubs had done that in the second half of the 1990s, but the Pubs wanted the bribes from the insurance industry and the Dems made sure they got some of the goodies.

This is over.

 

[dblack]

Now if Reid would grow a pair? WE would be rid of this asswipe in the Whitehouse that cares not for the rule of law much less the Constitution.

That's a big "if". But I do think the key to saving our nation will be finding common ground between sensible people in both parties.

We would not have ACA if Dems and Pubs had done that in the second half of the 1990s, but the Pubs wanted the bribes from the insurance industry and the Dems made sure they got some of the goodies.

This is over.

Only for you Jake. The neo-cons and corporatists you adore have pushed too far, and they're going down.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nope. And you are the neo-con and corporatist.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Zoom,
Have you ever heard of the word, "Underwriter"? Let me explain it to you. An underwriter is paid to turn people down who have an illness that is likely to cost the insurance comapny more in claims than he would pay in premiums. That is what I did for the health insurance industry. Every insurance comapny in America employees underwriters.

If your brother was abled to buy individual health insurance, then he was obvuiously not sick.

But, Zoom, don't take my word for it. Pick up the phone and call United Health Insurance Company, the largest health insurance company in America. They are in Minneapolis. Ask for the sales dept. Tell them that you want to buy individual health insurance. Then tell them thow pleased you are to find a company that will issue you a policy, in spite of the colon cancer that you had removed last year.

Then, come back to this thread, and tell us how long it took for the salesman to turn you down.

Based on my knowldege, I figure around 5 seconds.

If you guys really believe that sick people are eligible to buy health insurance, it is no wonder whatsoever as to why you are so completely uninformed about the entire subject of health insurance. I mean, we are talking about Health Insurance 101, here, not rocket science.

No, he isn't sick. Where did I say he was? What I said was he can buy affordable health insurance now (without the ACA). The left pushed the idea that people could not do this, could not afford this; it was part of the selling people the ACA. You know, the 'Affordable' part?

Oh, I see you were specifically speaking about sick people. I missed that earlier.

Well that is the problem ACA is trying to solve -- make health insurance affordable to sick people. And the only way it can be done is by requiring that everyone has an insurance.

And if you have to ask -- no, the government can't simply order the insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions. Been there, done that -- it won't work.

wtf? They just did when they mandated that everyone buy insurance.

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more. Why? Because they cost more to cover.

The ACA isn't trying to solve anything. It's a foot in the door, it will create more problems than it solves, it will be deemed unworkable and the reason for single payer/universal or whatever. It's all a ruse.

 

[Redfish]

No, he isn't sick. Where did I say he was? What I said was he can buy affordable health insurance now (without the ACA). The left pushed the idea that people could not do this, could not afford this; it was part of the selling people the ACA. You know, the 'Affordable' part?

Oh, I see you were specifically speaking about sick people. I missed that earlier.

Well that is the problem ACA is trying to solve -- make health insurance affordable to sick people. And the only way it can be done is by requiring that everyone has an insurance.

And if you have to ask -- no, the government can't simply order the insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions. Been there, done that -- it won't work.

wtf? They just did when the mandated that everyone buy insurance.

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

but but but but but-----------thats not "fair"

 

[Zoom-boing]

Well that is the problem ACA is trying to solve -- make health insurance affordable to sick people. And the only way it can be done is by requiring that everyone has an insurance.

And if you have to ask -- no, the government can't simply order the insurance companies to accept people with pre-existing conditions. Been there, done that -- it won't work.

wtf? They just did when the mandated that everyone buy insurance.

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

but but but but but-----------thats not "fair"

Yeah, I was going to put that in there too.

I'm healthy. Guy next door has diabetes. But we should both pay the same amount for health care because it's not fair that he has diabetes, he didn't ask for that? What a load of crap.

If I get cancer I would certainly expect my health premiums to go up. Why? Because now I cost more to insure.

Car insurance is much more costly for new/young drivers. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE OF A RISK. Same w/pre-existing conditions. What part of this escapes the left??

 

[dblack]

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

This is actually a fundamental misunderstanding of what insurance is. Insurance is for dealing with the expenses from unexpected future illness - not a discount card for treating illnesses you already have.

 

[Zoom-boing]

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

This is actually a fundamental misunderstanding of what insurance is. Insurance is for dealing with the expenses from unexpected future illness - not a discount card for treating illnesses you already have.

The illness you may already have is frequently the cause of future illnesses which makes that person a higher risk than someone without an illness. Therefore, they should pay a higher premium.

Oh, and I am of the belief that health insurance should be for catastrophic things and it should not cover the small stuff.

 

[Redfish]

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

This is actually a fundamental misunderstanding of what insurance is. Insurance is for dealing with the expenses from unexpected future illness - not a discount card for treating illnesses you already have.

true, when I was younger medical insurance was called "hospital" insurance, because it only kicked in if you had to go to the hospital. routine doc visits and prescriptions were paid out of pocket. We did not expect our insurance to cover a visit for a sore throat or a cut finger. Now, people expect FREE medical treatment for everything as long as they have insurance, medicare, medicaid, or are poor, or are illegal.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, I was going to put that in there too.

I'm healthy. Guy next door has diabetes. But we should both pay the same amount for health care because it's not fair that he has diabetes, he didn't ask for that? What a load of crap.

If I get cancer I would certainly expect my health premiums to go up. Why? Because now I cost more to insure.

Car insurance is much more costly for new/young drivers. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE OF A RISK. Same w/pre-existing conditions. What part of this escapes the left??

It doesn't escape them. For them it's the point. This is what they want to reform. They don't care about the fact the health care costs too much. They don't care that they are selling us out to corporate interests. They don't care that their reforms will do even more damage to the health care market (indeed, they don't want there to be a free market for health care at all). This is about mandating the core socialist ethic of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' as the foundation of health care.

It sounds good as a slogan (or, presumably, it sounds good to the statists) but even though its what they want, it's not what they're getting. That's the sick, sad irony of PPACA. It's not giving us the security of socialism. It's not giving us the freedom of capitalism. It's giving us the servitude of corporatism.

 

[dblack]

People with pre-existing conditions certainly should be able to buy health insurance. And they should pay more for it because they have a pre-exsiting condition. Smokers, obese, etc should also pay more because they cost more to cover.

This is actually a fundamental misunderstanding of what insurance is. Insurance is for dealing with the expenses from unexpected future illness - not a discount card for treating illnesses you already have.

The illness you may already have is frequently the cause of future illnesses which makes that person a higher risk than someone without an illness. Therefore, they should pay a higher premium.

Oh, and I am of the belief that health insurance should be for catastrophic things and it should not cover the small stuff.

Yeah. I see what you're saying. Sure, people with 'pre-existing conditions' can get insurance now, just as you describe. The question is whether those pre-existing conditions will be covered. ACA requires that they are, which fundamentally changes the nature of insurance.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What a bunch of effuped up whining

We are where we are because private insurance industry and the our political parties let them get rich denying people insurance instead of making a system that took care of people.

 

[Vandalshandle]

What a bunch of effuped up whining

We are where we are because private insurance industry and the our political parties let them get rich denying people insurance instead of making a system that took care of people.

EXACTLY! And since I see no point in blowing against the wind, I bought $5,000 of health insurance companies mutual fund shares when i realized that Obama was going to be elected. Today, it is worth $10,236. everyone would do well to do the same. If it had been up to me, it would have been a single payer universal health plan, with the insurance companies only contracted to pay the claims for the government, but the Right would not allow that, so I see no reason to leave money on the table.

BTW, Group health plans, by law, in every state, already require that pre-existing conditions (defined as any illness or disorder that was diagnosed or treated within 24 months of the effective date) be covered, 6 months after the effectove date, if there has been no treatmemnt, or 12 months after the effective date, if there has been treatment. For this reason, I routinely declined small groups of employees if anyone had a history of a serious expensive illness.

And finally, nobody says that there will not be a higher price for insurance for the chronicly ill. In fact, it will work like auto insurance does, wirth certain people thrown into "assigned risk" catagories at much higher premiums.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What a bunch of effuped up whining

We are where we are because private insurance industry and the our political parties let them get rich denying people insurance instead of making a system that took care of people.

The insurance industry is getting ripped off like the rest of us. When the Doc sends me to get a CAT Scan I don't need - he makes money, and between me and my insurance company - we lose money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So it is the doctors' faults: really?

 

[Vandalshandle]

What a bunch of effuped up whining

We are where we are because private insurance industry and the our political parties let them get rich denying people insurance instead of making a system that took care of people.

The insurance industry is getting ripped off like the rest of us. When the Doc sends me to get a CAT Scan I don't need - he makes money, and between me and my insurance company - we lose money.

In the health insurance industry, there is always a department, within the Provider Relations division, that monitors for over utilization. They rely on statistics put together by the computer system, comparing our contracted docs with industry norms, for the same specialties. Mostly, we find a certain amount of overutilization, based on docs practicing defensive medicine. We tolerate that, to a reasonable extent. However, it is also not uncommon to find that (for example) an orthopedic specialist to be sending every single patient to his own imaging company, of which he has a major finacial interest, for MRI's, X-rays, Pet scans, etc., even when they are not needed, for example, AFTER surgery, even though there were no complications. These docs get their contracts canceled pronto.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

So it is the doctors' faults: really?

Yes. They are financially rewarded for billing as many services as possible - not for healing the patient. In fact if their treatment fails and you have to return to them - they get paid more for it.


If you take your car to the mechanic to get something fixed, and you pay and pick up the car and it turns out that something isn't fixed - would you gladly pay the mechanic AGAIN to fix the problem he was supposed to fix in the first place? Most people would find that unjust and unfair - but doctors do it to insurance companies and patients all the time.



Rehab centers are the biggest scams of them all. Its practically a joke among both patients and the counselors at rehab centers that you are "cured" when your insurance money runs out.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So we should regulate doctors and hospitals?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What a bunch of effuped up whining

We are where we are because private insurance industry and the our political parties let them get rich denying people insurance instead of making a system that took care of people.

The insurance industry is getting ripped off like the rest of us. When the Doc sends me to get a CAT Scan I don't need - he makes money, and between me and my insurance company - we lose money.

In the health insurance industry, there is always a department, within the Provider Relations division, that monitors for over utilization. They rely on statistics put together by the computer system, comparing our contracted docs with industry norms, for the same specialties. Mostly, we find a certain amount of overutilization, based on docs practicing defensive medicine. We tolerate that, to a reasonable extent. However, it is also not uncommon to find that (for example) an orthopedic specialist to be sending every single patient to his own imaging company, of which he has a major finacial interest, for MRI's, X-rays, Pet scans, etc., even when they are not needed, for example, AFTER surgery, even though there were no complications. These docs get their contracts canceled pronto.

There is no way you will catch all the waste. You're only going to get the obvious cases that stand out from the crowd.

The system itself is flawed. Medical billing is so complicated they have college degrees on the subject. The few times I've had to pay out of pocket at the doctor's office no one ever has any idea how much it will cost me.