GOP Establishment Cheating of Trump, Step One; Ditch Rule 40B

[Ravi]

It doesn't seem to me they're talking about "changing" the rule so much as enforcing it. As I read this, unless someone had won an outright majority in 8 states, then there's not a first ballot nomination. ALL the names are in play, and they just call the roll for each state until someone has a majority of delegates.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/Rules_of_the_Republican+Party_FINAL_S14090314.pdf

And more clearly

RNC convention first ballot rules for candidates who fail to pass rule 40b?

But, if the Donald goes into the convention with 1272 pledged delegates, and is NOT the nominee, then I think the gop's in trouble.

If he has the needed amount of delegates, he is the nominee. If he doesn't, it is up in the air. The OP seems to think the rules should be changed to favor Trump, which shows how weak of a candidate Trump actually is. I wonder if the rest of the world will change the rules to accommodate President Trump.

Yes the OP wants the rules change. I agree with that.
But the effect of following the rules would allow Trump delegates to defect, because under Rule 40 it appears there's no first ballot winning unless he/she won a outright majority in 8 states. If Trump has 1272, the party should make him the nominee. If it doesn't, it won't be pretty.

From what I've read, if there is no one with an outright majority in 8 states the delegates are allowed to change the rule.

It's going to be ugly regardless.

The majority will begin in play with the "winner takes all" states, coming the 15th of this month. I just don't think the party should play with the rules. The reaction could be explosive for the party.

And I agree, the convention could be ugly. It's up to the party to ensure the peoples' votes have been honored.
Next Tuesday should give us an idea of how this is going to turn out.

IIRC, the GOP changed that rule last time to bounce Ron Paul out.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It doesn't seem to me they're talking about "changing" the rule so much as enforcing it. As I read this, unless someone had won an outright majority in 8 states, then there's not a first ballot nomination. ALL the names are in play, and they just call the roll for each state until someone has a majority of delegates.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/Rules_of_the_Republican+Party_FINAL_S14090314.pdf

And more clearly

RNC convention first ballot rules for candidates who fail to pass rule 40b?

But, if the Donald goes into the convention with 1272 pledged delegates, and is NOT the nominee, then I think the gop's in trouble.

If a candidate does not meet their requirements of the 40B rule, then any delegates pledged to them will be ignored on the first ballot. All delegates are released after the first ballot. So the second part you speak of its erroneous. There will be a nominee, as that is the whole point to the convention.

But who can be eligible for the nomination of the Whole convention currently requires a delegate majority in at least 8 individual states. That will only Trump and maybe Cruz.
By changing rule 40B, anyone that has won a single delegate can be put up for nomination, even winless Jeb!

So the way it would have worked under current rules is....

If there is a candidate with a majority of ALL delegates, then they win the nomination outright.

If not, but only one qualifies under rule 40B, then, as I understand it, there is a first round vote for only the one candidate, he does not get a majority since all delegates are still bound, even if their vote is not recognized. In the second round and following, only the one candidate that met the conditions of rule 40B can be put up for the vote, and that candidate would win by default.

If two candidates qualified under rule 40B, then there is the symbolic first round of winless voting, then starting in the second round and following, the only candidates that can be considered are the tow who met the qualifications of rule 40B. Only one of them can possibly win the nomination.

The point of changing the rule is to allow other candidates to be considered even if they have only one delegate. This means that if a majority is not found the first round, in the second and following rounds the delegates can horse trade until they finally get a nominee and that could be anyone from a loser like Jeb! to Trump.

Right now only Trump and Cruz are likely to meet the qualifications of rule 40B, certainly Trump sill get it and quite possibly Cruz. They have an advantage that they have worked hard for in that they have won majorities of state delegations and to change the rules prior to this convention is to defraud them of their fairly gained advantage in the nomination process.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes the OP wants the rules change. I agree with that.
But the effect of following the rules would allow Trump delegates to defect, because under Rule 40 it appears there's no first ballot winning unless he/she won a outright majority in 8 states. If Trump has 1272, the party should make him the nominee. If it doesn't, it won't be pretty.

Rule 40B is the rule currently in place, and I dont support changing it.

It is fraud to change the rules after millions of people have cast their votes and the candidates have spent hundreds of millions of dollars competing under the current rules.

 

[JimBowie1958]

If he has the needed amount of delegates, he is the nominee. If he doesn't, it is up in the air. The OP seems to think the rules should be changed to favor Trump, which shows how weak of a candidate Trump actually is. I wonder if the rest of the world will change the rules to accommodate President Trump.

No, the current rules favor Trump. The change would defraud Trump and Cruz, in all likelihood.

 

[JimBowie1958]

But, if the Donald goes into the convention with 1272 pledged delegates, and is NOT the nominee, then I think the gop's in trouble.

If anyone has 1272 delegates then they clinch the nomination as only 1237 are needed.

 

[bendog]

It doesn't seem to me they're talking about "changing" the rule so much as enforcing it. As I read this, unless someone had won an outright majority in 8 states, then there's not a first ballot nomination. ALL the names are in play, and they just call the roll for each state until someone has a majority of delegates.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/Rules_of_the_Republican+Party_FINAL_S14090314.pdf

And more clearly

RNC convention first ballot rules for candidates who fail to pass rule 40b?

But, if the Donald goes into the convention with 1272 pledged delegates, and is NOT the nominee, then I think the gop's in trouble.

If a candidate does not meet their requirements of the 40B rule, then any delegates pledged to them will be ignored on the first ballot. All delegates are released after the first ballot. So the second part you speak of its erroneous. There will be a nominee, as that is the whole point to the convention.

But who can be eligible for the nomination of the Whole convention currently requires a delegate majority in at least 8 individual states. That will only Trump and maybe Cruz.
By changing rule 40B, anyone that has won a single delegate can be put up for nomination, even winless Jeb!

So the way it would have worked under current rules is....

If there is a candidate with a majority of ALL delegates, then they win the nomination outright.

If not, but only one qualifies under rule 40B, then, as I understand it, there is a first round vote for only the one candidate, he does not get a majority since all delegates are still bound, even if their vote is not recognized. In the second round and following, only the one candidate that met the conditions of rule 40B can be put up for the vote, and that candidate would win by default.

If two candidates qualified under rule 40B, then there is the symbolic first round of winless voting, then starting in the second round and following, the only candidates that can be considered are the tow who met the qualifications of rule 40B. Only one of them can possibly win the nomination.

The point of changing the rule is to allow other candidates to be considered even if they have only one delegate. This means that if a majority is not found the first round, in the second and following rounds the delegates can horse trade until they finally get a nominee and that could be anyone from a loser like Jeb! to Trump.

Right now only Trump and Cruz are likely to meet the qualifications of rule 40B, certainly Trump sill get it and quite possibly Cruz. They have an advantage that they have worked hard for in that they have won majorities of state delegations and to change the rules prior to this convention is to defraud them of their fairly gained advantage in the nomination process.

I don't think that's right. I think Rule 40 requires a candidate to win outright 50%plusone of the vote in 8 primaries.

I hope for the gop's sake they nominate whomever has 1276, and let the chips fall. Yesterday or the day before Morning Joe and even the Nicole lady who worked for W summed up the problem. The gop serves the donor class, the 1%. It's no more a conservative party than the dems.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I don't think that's right. I think Rule 40 requires a candidate to win outright 50%plusone of the vote in 8 primaries..

The rule states....
“Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of eight (8) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of the name of that candidate for nomination. ..."

 

[JimBowie1958]

The rules for the GOP national convention are so seldom obeyed, few know what rules are actually in effect till the convention and which are not.

GOP superlawyer on contested convention rule: 'In fact, that's not a rule'

A Republican presidential candidate likely won’t have to abide by a 2012 rule requiring him to accrue a majority of delegates in eight states to be considered for the nomination should a contested convention occur in July, according to current and former Republican National Committee rules committee members.

“In fact, that's not a rule,” former RNC lawyer Ben Ginsberg — the party's preeminent election law expert — told MSNBC early Wednesday morning. “That's part of what's called the temporary rules. Each convention has to pass for itself the number of states that put a candidate's name in nomination.”

In 2012, revisions to Rule 40 raised the required number of states from five to eight, but no number is in effect for the Cleveland convention, according to Ginsberg. “The 2016 convention and its rules committee has to make that decision,” he said. “So there is no eight-state rule in effect right now for the next convention.”

“The 2016 convention can make that number one, eight, 18, 28 or 58, if it wishes,” he added.

Curly Haugland, an RNC committeeman and member of the convention’s rules committee from North Dakota, clarified to POLITICO that rules 26 through 42 stood for the 2012 convention but are only temporary until the rules committee and order of business reports are adopted at the 2016 convention.

“Rules aren’t fixed until the convention,” explained Haugland, who sat on the rules committee with Ginsberg at the 2012 convention in Tampa, Florida. “Rule 40 will likely be amended, but it’s a temporary rule. It’s not nonexistent.”


So in other words, the GOP elites want to trashcan rule 40B, but that was creating a storm so now the claim is that it does not have effect, or does but it is only temporary.

What morons have the rules to a competition established only AFTER THE GAME IS OVER?

The GOP Establishment kind of morons, of course.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Filing deadlines and signature requirements for independent presidential candidates, 2016 - Ballotpedia

 

[ptbw forever]

It doesn't seem to me they're talking about "changing" the rule so much as enforcing it. As I read this, unless someone had won an outright majority in 8 states, then there's not a first ballot nomination. ALL the names are in play, and they just call the roll for each state until someone has a majority of delegates.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/Rules_of_the_Republican+Party_FINAL_S14090314.pdf

And more clearly

RNC convention first ballot rules for candidates who fail to pass rule 40b?

But, if the Donald goes into the convention with 1272 pledged delegates, and is NOT the nominee, then I think the gop's in trouble.

If he has the needed amount of delegates, he is the nominee. If he doesn't, it is up in the air. The OP seems to think the rules should be changed to favor Trump, which shows how weak of a candidate Trump actually is. I wonder if the rest of the world will change the rules to accommodate President Trump.

He is facing 2 sitting senators and one sitting governor and winning....

The fact that Trump is beating 3 big time Republican politicians in a presidential election when he has never been in politics before is nothing short of amazing.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Vigilante]