Good thing Britain doesn't have the 2nd Amendment and banned guns.....these criminals would be getting shot all over the place.

[2aguy]

But when do you need deadly force?
Arguing over a hat?
Lengthy prison term imposed in shooting case linked to stolen beanie

A drunken brawl outside a nightclub?

2 Men Killed In Shooting Outside Club Risqué In Philadelphia's Wissinoming Section, Police Say

Police say the shooting stemmed from a physical altercation outside of Club Risqué.

www.cbsnews.com

Family arguments at Christmas?

New York personal trainer arrested and accused of shooting his parents on Christmas

Dino Tomassetti, 29, was being held without bail in Bergen County Jail in New Jersey, pending extradition.

www.nbcnews.com

Punishing your daughter when she sneaks into your home late after a night out? 911 caller says husband shot 16-year-old daughter because he thought she was an intruder

If your Pizza is taking too long to cook? https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article256082512.html

When guns are so easy to obtain, it's not just the criminals you have to worry about.

Yes...meanwhile the other 1.1 million rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings and mass public shootings stopped by Americans with their legal guns won't be covered by you....

Meanwhile, again....you have to explain the discrepancy between the 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered in Europe between 1939-1945 after you guys banned and confiscated guns......and the fact that if you took all gun murder in the United States for our entire 246 year history, we come out to about 2,500,000 million people murdered.


Keep in mind, you Europeans murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children in that 6 years.....and only stopped when Americans with gun forced you to stop.....

The 2,500.000 or so who were murdered by guns in the U.S. over our entire 246 year history were primarily criminals murdered by other criminals, and the friends and family of criminals....caught in the crossfire of their criminal associates...

You never address the 15 million.....I wonder why?

 

[2aguy]

Well either accidentally or deliberately, you missed my point. Having so many "normal" people able to own guns is a recipe for disaster. If you want to own a gun, you need to be trained on when and how to use it. There are thousands of examples of "normal" Americans misusing their guns or abusing their 2A rights. As an ex-gun owner myself, I've no objection to people owning guns, but they need some form of rigorous certification/training if they are to be allowed to carry them around on a daily basis.

Normal people in the U.S. aren't the ones shooting anyone....

The people shooting people in the U.S. are criminals, just like the people shooting people in the U.K. are criminals.....

The examples of Americans who misuse their guns are nowhere near the number of government agents misusing their guns in Europe.......to the tune of 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered at gun point by their own governments...who made these innocent people give up their guns before they mass murdered them......

You really have nothing to teach us, other than how to not commit mass murder of civilians....

 

[2aguy]

Well either accidentally or deliberately, you missed my point. Having so many "normal" people able to own guns is a recipe for disaster. If you want to own a gun, you need to be trained on when and how to use it. There are thousands of examples of "normal" Americans misusing their guns or abusing their 2A rights. As an ex-gun owner myself, I've no objection to people owning guns, but they need some form of rigorous certification/training if they are to be allowed to carry them around on a daily basis.

And you think that the criminals in Britain will refrain from using guns simply ....... Because?..........You are naive and foolish....

Two in three police force areas in England and Wales are experiencing rising gun crime, with one force facing levels six times higher than a decade ago, Guardian analysis of Home Office data has found.
-------

Concerns are now being raised about the growing availability of firearms in parts of the north of England and the Midlands as some police forces are struggling to tackle rising gun crime with fewer officers than they had a decade ago.

The sharpest rise is in the north-east, where gun crime has more than tripled from an average of 91 firearms offences a year between 2009 and 2012, to 294 a year between 2019 and 2022.

In the Cleveland police area, firearms offences have risen almost sixfold, from a yearly average of 22 to 127. Durham, Sussex, Lincolnshire, Northumbria, South Yorkshire, Norfolk and Kent police have all seen numbers more than double in 10 years

Gun crime rising in two-thirds of police force areas in England and Wales

Exclusive: analysis reveals firearms offences have increased in 29 out of 43 forces over past decade

www.theguardian.com

 

[2aguy]

Well either accidentally or deliberately, you missed my point. Having so many "normal" people able to own guns is a recipe for disaster. If you want to own a gun, you need to be trained on when and how to use it. There are thousands of examples of "normal" Americans misusing their guns or abusing their 2A rights. As an ex-gun owner myself, I've no objection to people owning guns, but they need some form of rigorous certification/training if they are to be allowed to carry them around on a daily basis.

You would have to explain this then....and you can't....

Over 27 years, from 1993 to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======

The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

What changed in 2015?

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild. The police stopped pro-active police work, retired in massive numbers, quit the job in massive numbers...this allowed criminals to run free without fear of being stopped......

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Correct.
But they aren't interested in the truth.

 

[Vagabond63]

Yes...meanwhile the other 1.1 million rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings and mass public shootings stopped by Americans with their legal guns won't be covered by you....

Ooh, it's gone down now from 2.5 million , to 1.2 million, now 1.1 million... in other words you have no idea at all and just make up numbers based on glorified opinion polls, sorry "studies"

Meanwhile, again....you have to explain the discrepancy between the 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered in Europe between 1939-1945 after you guys banned and confiscated guns...

No I really don't. The answer is obvious to anyone with a brain, not pushing an agenda.

 

[Hollie]

Already in place, do keep up. Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons

Do try to compose a coherent argument. While your shrill screeching is causing all the dogs in my neighborhood to start barking, how is that restrictions on sales and carrying of knives still allows crimes with knives? Is that because criminals don't obey laws?

I'll note that you seem to forever miss the point that here in the Great Satan, there is a Constitutional right to bear arms. The data shows that overwhelming, legal firearms owners are not the people committing gun cimes.

 

[Vagabond63]

Normal people in the U.S. aren't the ones shooting anyone....

And you think that the criminals in Britain will refrain from using guns simply

You would have to explain this then....and you can't....

Ah, what took you so long? Yet another cut and paste torrent of BS, designed to obfuscate and deflect. Seems I win again...

 

[2aguy]

Ooh, it's gone down now from 2.5 million , to 1.2 million, now 1.1 million... in other words you have no idea at all and just make up numbers based on glorified opinion polls, sorry "studies"

No I really don't. The answer is obvious to anyone with a brain, not pushing an agenda.

Yes....you are a twit.....I gave you the CDC number, the 2.5 million is Gary Kleck's number and the Department of Justice Research was 1.5 million times a year.......3 out of 19 studies on gun self defense....

Here......let me show you, again, all of the research into gun self defense.........

Keep in mind, the guys at the Centers for Disease Control, Gary Kleck, and the guys at the Department of Justice are all anti-gunners......when they did the research. The CDC and DOJ did their best to dismiss Kleck's numbers but when they did their own research, creating their own studies, to destroy Kleck's work, they failed, and ended up accidentally supporting the truth that Americans use their legal guns millions of times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings and mass public shootings.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

 

[2aguy]

Ah, what took you so long? Yet another cut and paste torrent of BS, designed to obfuscate and deflect. Seems I win again...

Yes....I post truth, facts and reality, which you can't dismiss.......and you bitch about the information.....typical, left wing doofus.

 

[Vagabond63]

Do try to compose a coherent argument.

Clearly you have difficulties in reading and comprehension.

While your shrill screeching is causing all the dogs in my neighborhood to start barking,

It seems your hearing aid is also defunct, I'd get it looked at.

 

[2aguy]

Ah, what took you so long? Yet another cut and paste torrent of BS, designed to obfuscate and deflect. Seems I win again...

You Europeans murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children after you banned and confiscated guns....you asshats still have to answer for that........these were not criminals, they were normal people, rounded up by your fascist buddies in the countries conquered by the German socialists....then murdered.......

This wasn't by a Mongol Horde, Japanes Samurai, or Medieval Knights....this was post 1917 in modern Europe....with modern Universities, science, philosophy, democratic institutions and the rule of law....

You told those people....give up your guns, and your governments will keep you safe....

They gave up their guns....and you guys murdered 15 million people in 6 years.....more people murdered in 6 years than people murdered by criminals with guns in the U.S. in our entire 246 year history....

You have nothing to teach us ....

 

[Vagabond63]

I post truth, facts and reality,

Not sure you understand objective truth, facts and reality, you really need to keep taking your meds.

 

[2aguy]

Not sure you understand objective truth, facts and reality, you really need to keep taking your meds.

And you have run out of stupid things to post......so resort to this.........your failure is noted and laughed at....

 

[Vagabond63]

You Europeans murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children after you banned and confiscated guns....you asshats still have to answer for that........these were not criminals, they were normal people, rounded up by your fascist buddies in the countries conquered by the German socialists....then murdered.......

This wasn't by a Mongol Horde, Japanes Samurai, or Medieval Knights....this was post 1917 in modern Europe....with modern Universities, science, philosophy, democratic institutions and the rule of law....

You told those people....give up your guns, and your governments will keep you safe....

They gave up their guns....and you guys murdered 15 million people in 6 years.....more people murdered in 6 years than people murdered by criminals with guns in the U.S. in our entire 246 year history....

You have nothing to teach us ....

Utter drivel.

 

[Hollie]

Ah, what took you so long? Yet another cut and paste torrent of BS, designed to obfuscate and deflect. Seems I win again...

I think most everyone has seen the poster who can't refute facts declare themselves the winner.

 

[2aguy]

Utter drivel.

You can't respond to this truth, so you post that.......you are such a lame asshole......pathetic...but expected from someone such as you...

 

[2aguy]

Utter drivel.

Does it still burn your ass that Americans had to sail across the ocean to save your country? And that we had to do that twice....with guns.....?

 

[Vagabond63]

And you have run out of stupid things to post.....

Well unlike yourself, I don't have hard disks full of cut and paste drivel. Clearly you will never run out of stupid things to post, you just keep on trpeating the same drivel time after time.

 

[Vagabond63]

Does it still burn your ass that Americans had to sail across the ocean to save your country? And that we had to do that twice....with guns.....?

Not at all. You do remember, that in WW1 the AEF was supplied with guns by Britain and France, not to mention aircraft and artillery, oh and ammunition.