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Good thing Britain doesn't have the 2nd Amendment and banned guns.....these criminals would be getting shot all over the place.

Vagabond63

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The object of using lethal force for legitimate self defense should be to stop the attack not to kill the attacker.

Often people survive being shot several times with a handgun if they receive prompt medical attention.
So you agree, you can stop an attack without resorting to lethal force every time.
 

Vagabond63

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Perhaps you're just an ignorant ass.


Total crimes per 1000: Countries Compared

UK 109.96

US 41.29
Someone's getting desperate. ROFL! "Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence."
 

Hollie

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WTF?! Time for you to take your meds and have a lie down methinks...
How embarrassing for you.

What a shame. Perhaps if your authoritarian / socialist paradises had a Constitution that acknowledged rights and freedoms like here in the Great Satan, your authoritarian / socialist paradises wouldn't be such lawless, crime-ridden Hell Holes.
 

Hollie

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Perhaps in America. Most new builds in the UK come with composite doors and multi-point locking systems; basically impervious to police battering rams, drills, even gunfire in some cases. They can be retro-fitted for a few hundred £, much cheaper than a firearm. Even windows are similar with security double glazed panels that can't be shattered by the old method of hitting a corner with a hammer and chisel/sharp pointed object. America must be so primitive.
Golly gee. It sure reads like your authoritarian / socialist paradise is forced to build mini-fortresses to protect individuals from violent criminals. If I had to live in a place that required building materials that were, ''basically impervious to police battering rams, drills, even gunfire'' I'd sure want a firearm as a last resort to protect me and my family.

Europenises are so primitive!
 

Batcat

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YSo you agree, you can stop an attack without resorting to lethal force every time.

Lethal force definition​

Lethal force means any use of force likely to cause death or serious physical injury, including the use of a firearm, carotid neck hold, or strike to the head, neck, or throat with a hard object.

Much depends on the nature of the attack.

If I feel the attacker intends to put me in the hospital for an extended period of time or six feet under, I will use lethal force to stop his attack. Be aware I am 76 years old, out of shape and physically handicapped. I am not able to fight like I could when I was half my age. Back then I was student in jujitsu.

However, I might shoot an attacker several times with my snub nosed .38 revolver (which I legally carry concealed), and my attacker could survive if he gets prompt medical attention.

hzquakm37f961.jpg
 
OP
2aguy

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None of these incidents have anything to do with "violent criminals bypassing security measures" so please provide examples where these career criminals bypassed/overcame secure houses.


Wow.....I give you instances where normal people come face to face, and actual physical assault with violent criminals and you dismiss them out of hand and try to play funny with your security measures....

You are not a serious human being.....you don't understand human nature, human history, truth, facts or reality.........

Do you think the Wealthy couple in their nice home had your security measures? The story where they made the wife walk across broken glass and broke her toes with a hammer?

You are a seriously unserious human.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Don't you dare act like you are pro police, if you refuse to condemn the riots on Jan. 6th.


You aren't going to derail the thread with left wing talking points......
 

Billo_Really

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You aren't going to derail the thread with left wing talking points......
You sounded like you are pro-police and you are not. Furthermore, 2nd Amendments rights do not reduce crime!
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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WTF?! Time for you to take your meds and have a lie down methinks...


this........

An elderly couple were terrorised by a towering naked stranger who broke into their home and allegedly threatened the husband with rape and murder.

Scott Presswood, who stands at 6ft4, kicked the front door down into Majorie and Ted Bosworth's home before smashing the patio doors with a cast iron barbecue, then battered the latter with it.

The attacker told Ted "I am Scott and I am naked" as Marjorie hid in a bedroom screaming.

The 78-year-old victim said she and her husband "still feel like prisoners in our own home" two years after the ordeal which saw Presswood jailed, reports the Manchester Evening News.

The unhinged dad-of-two knocked on the door of the rural home in April 2020 while the couple were watching a film, before breaking in.

Marjorie described how Ted was in the lounge "being beaten by a 6ft4ins naked guy fighting for his life".






Versus in the United States....

Four People, Dog Stabbed During Buffalo Grove Home Invasion

CHICAGO (CBS) — Four people and their family dog were stabbed early Wednesday, when two masked men broke into their home in north suburban Buffalo Grove.

Police said the homeowner grabbed a handgun during the home invasion, and opened fire, chasing off the suspects.

Just after midnight, police responded to a home invasion in the 400 block of St. Marys Parkway, and found several windows had been broken, and the front door had been forced open. Officers discovered a bloody scene inside.

Witnesses told police that two masked attackers had broken in, and a man armed with a large hunting knife repeatedly stabbed the 49-year-old homeowner. Three other people and the family’s German Shepherd also were stabbed.

During the struggle, the homeowner retrieved a handgun, and opened fire, causing the attackers to run away.

“It’s pretty shocking,” neighbor Bob Meyer said. “This neighborhood is very, very quiet. We’ve lived here for 30-plus years, and this stuff just doesn’t happen here; just doesn’t happen.”
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Perhaps in America. Most new builds in the UK come with composite doors and multi-point locking systems; basically impervious to police battering rams, drills, even gunfire in some cases. They can be retro-fitted for a few hundred £, much cheaper than a firearm. Even windows are similar with security double glazed panels that can't be shattered by the old method of hitting a corner with a hammer and chisel/sharp pointed object. America must be so primitive.


So. you twit...you have all the passive security measures you love.....and the guy simply removes the air conditioning unit......oh, that's right, you Brits tend not to like air conditioning.....but here in the U.S. we actually have it...

Mom-to-be shoots intruder with her pink pistol
A man is recovering from a gunshot wound after he broke into a Birmingham home early Friday morning and came face-to-face with a pregnant woman who was ready to protect herself and her baby.

Marquita Turner said she heard the suspect remove the air conditioning unit from a side window around 2:20 a.m. Once the unit was out, the suspect climbed right inside, but he likely wasn’t expecting to meet Turner with her pink Taurus Millennium 9mm.

“I grabbed my gun when I woke up. And I walked out of the door and I saw them, the guy in the hallway … he was kind of close to me so I shot and he fell,” Turner told reporters with alocal NBC affiliate.
Turner said she fired two or three rounds and struck the intruder once, then turned on the lights and called the police. Once they arrived, the suspect was taken to the hospital for treatment. He was expected to survive.

Turner, who is currently five months pregnant, said she purchased her gun two years ago for protection, but she’s never been to the range or otherwise had any type of training or target practice. Still, she’s glad she had the means to protect herself when she needed to. She said she doesn’t know what could have happened had she not be able to protect herself and her unborn baby.

 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Oooh, censoring your own posts, how revealing.

Missed this bit,
"The proposition that widespread gun ownership serves as a deterrent to residential burglary is widely touted by advocates, but the evidence is weak, consisting of anecdotes, interviews with burglars, casual comparisons with other countries, and the like."


This is the story you have to explain....

An elderly couple tortured in their home by a gang of robbers had a full kettle of boiling water poured over them three times as their attackers demanded to know where they had money hidden.

The couple, aged 66 and 64, were subjected to both physical and mental torture during their terrifying two-hour ordeal in their home in the village of Halstead, near Sevenoaks, Kent.



The couple were watching television in their living room of their £750,000 house when three men armed with knives kicked down the front door and burst in.

 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Oooh, censoring your own posts, how revealing.

Missed this bit,
"The proposition that widespread gun ownership serves as a deterrent to residential burglary is widely touted by advocates, but the evidence is weak, consisting of anecdotes, interviews with burglars, casual comparisons with other countries, and the like."


Cook is a well known anti-gun fanatic.......but thanks for adding his extra comments to that work.......
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Oooh, censoring your own posts, how revealing.

Missed this bit,
"The proposition that widespread gun ownership serves as a deterrent to residential burglary is widely touted by advocates, but the evidence is weak, consisting of anecdotes, interviews with burglars, casual comparisons with other countries, and the like."


Of course you ignored this....

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F64

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/LawyersGunsBurglars.htm#FN;F64

C. In Homes and on the Street

Rengert and Wasilchick's book about how burglars work reveals that fear of armed homeowners played a major role in determining burglary targets. Burglars reported that they avoided late-night burglaries because, "That's the way to get shot." [FN63] Some burglars said that they shun burglaries in neighborhoods with people of mostly a different race because, "You'll get shot if you're caught there." [FN64]
The most thorough study of burglary patterns was a St. Louis survey of 105 currently active burglars. [FN65] The authors observed, "One of the most serious risks faced by residential burglars is the possibility of being injured or killed by occupants of a target. Many of the offenders we spoke to reported that this was far and away their greatest fear." [FN66] Said one burglar: "I don't think about gettin' caught, I think about gettin' gunned down, shot or somethin'...'cause you get into some people's houses...quick as I come in there, boom, they hit you right there. That's what I think about."
Another burglar explained:

Hey, wouldn't you blow somebody away if someone broke into your house and you don't know them? You hear this noise and they come breakin' in the window tryin' to get into your house, they gon' want to kill you anyway. See, with the police, they gon' say, "Come out with your hands up and don't do nothing foolish!" Okay, you still alive, but you goin' to jail. But you alive. You sneak into somebody's house and they wait til you get in the house and then they shoot you.. . .See what I'm sayin'? You can't explain nothin' to nobody; you layin' down in there dead! [FN67]
In contrast, Missouri is one of only nine states which has no provision for citizens to be issued permits to carry handguns for protection. Thus, a criminal in St. Louis faces a very high risk that the target of a home invasion may have a lawful gun for protection, but minimal risk that the target of a street robbery will have a lawful firearm for defense. The same authors who studied active St. Louis burglars conducted another study of active St. Louis armed robbers. [FN68]


They found that "ome of the offenders who favored armed robbery over other crimes *355 maintained that the offense was also safer than burglary. . .." [FN69] As one armed robber put it: "My style is, like, don't have to be up in nobody's house in case they come in; they might have a pistol in the house or something." [FN70]


On the streets, many of the St. Louis robbers "routinely targeted law-abiding citizens," [FN71] who, unlike their counterparts in most American states, were certain not to be carrying a gun for protection. Law-abiding citizens were chosen as robbery victims because, as one robber noted, "You don't want to pick somebody dangerous; they might have a gun themselves." [FN72]


In addition to the St. Louis study, the Wright-Rossi National Institute of Justice surveyed felony prisoners in eleven state prison systems on the impact of victim firearms on burglar behavior. [FN73] In that survey, seventy-four percent of the convicts who had committed a burglary or violent crime agreed, "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot." [FN74]
 

Billo_Really

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Britain doesn't have the 2nd Amendment.....so criminals run free......if you are a citizen, you are at their mercy and if you go to far in trying to protect yourself....you will go to prison....

Leftists in the U.S. are destroying our police and releasing violent criminals...

Leftists in the U.K. seem to be doing the same thing....

Leftists are gonna leftist.......and innocent people don't matter...


Public safety is said to be one of the foundational principles of the British justice system. Today, that premise seems shaky at best. Take the case of Joshua Carney. In February, authorities paroled the Welshman after he had served part of a jail sentence for committing a series of burglaries in 2017. Carney has 47 prior convictions.

Less than a week after his release, he forced his way into a Cardiff house, locking a terrified woman inside. When her 14-year-old daughter heard her distress, she came downstairs. Carney proceeded to rape both the mother and the daughter. Last week, Carney was jailed for “life,” which means he’ll be up for parole in ten years.


It feels like the U.K. has emerged from its Covid-induced slumber to find that crime itself has been decriminalized. Consider the data for less serious offenses, such as burglary.

Of the 21,000 neighborhoods in England and Wales that suffered at least one burglary in the past three years, police failed to solve even a single case in 17,000 of those areas—a failure rate of 84 percent.



So....I ask this to vagabond and captain caveman....

Is it a better outcome that this woman and her 14 year old daughter were violently raped........instead of having a gun to kill the rapist?

Recorded crime in England and Wales is at a 20-year high, and just 6 percent of cases resulted in anyone being charged or issued a summons in 2021–2022—a 10 percent drop from 2014–2015.

With the streets of our major cities looking like scenes from The Purge, the public increasingly senses that the police have given up. According to recent data, only 57 percent of Londoners have confidence that the Met can be relied upon.
You said, "...leftists are destroying our police..." and I can't comment on that?
 
OP
2aguy

2aguy

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You said, "...leftists are destroying our police..." and I can't comment on that?

Nope...you brought up Jan. 6....off topic.....you twit.
 
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2aguy

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Vagabond63

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So. you twit...you have all the passive security measures you love.....and the guy simply removes the air conditioning unit......oh, that's right, you Brits tend not to like air conditioning.....but here in the U.S. we actually have it...
We have air conditioning both in the UK and in Spain, none of it so primitive that it can be removed from a window!
 

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