Good Obama signed up so can we eliminate the White House Doctor expenses...

[healthmyths]

What I've learned about the numbers YOU post ... they tend to be complete bullshit. Like when you [falsely] posted 5 million jobs were added under Bush according to establishment data -- only the real number was 1.1 million. Or like when you [falsely] posted 2.5 million jobs were lost because of 9.11, when the actual wording of the article you linked in support of that idiocy was that 2.5 million jobs were lost "SINCE" 9.11, not "BECAUSE" of it.

So hopefully, you can understand why I find it completely meaningless when YOU claim there were only 4 million "truly uninsured."

1) Prove this number is wrong! 10 million not citizens
go to the link: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

When do you stop lying?

Earlier, you said they were "illegal aliens."

I challenged you to show where your link said there were 10 million "illegal aliens." without insurance ........

.... and you have the nerve to respond to that by switching, "illegal aliens," to, "not citizens?"

Now I will quote you again ....

healthmyths: "10 million are not citizens"

Faun: "What does it matter that 10 million are not citizens? They are still without health insurance."

healthmyths: "Hey... illegal citizens should not be here in the first place. They should be put into jail ! There they would have health coverage!"​

...... so again, I challenge you to show me where in your link it states those 10 million non-U.S. citizens are "illegal aliens?"

Put up or shut up time.....

From the IRS....
Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.
Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

From the Census where they use the term "non-citizen" which also means "illegal Alien" per the IRS..



Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

 

[paperview]

From the Census where they use the term "non-citizen" which also means "illegal Alien" per the IRS..

What an idiot. No Per the Irs, the term "non-citizen" does not mean "illegal Alien."

Sheesh.

This thread is a fail for you of epic proportions.

 

[healthmyths]

So I've shown where 10 million "Illegal Aliens" i.e. NON-CITIZENS were counted by the CENSUS as part of the "46 million uninsured".
I've shown with links where 14 million people who SAID they were uninsured WERE eligible! NO further legislation.. i.e. ACA was needed!

"The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year, but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey.
In the latest Census health insurance report, the Census Bureau acknowledges that the survey “…underreports Medicare and Medicaid coverage compared with enrollment and participation data from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS).”
According to ARC, this “Medicaid undercount” leads to an over-assessment of the uninsured population and needs to be taken into consideration when developing uninsured estimates.

Finally I've shown where 18 million DIDN"T WANT OR NEED but IDIOTS like you say WeLL they need to be paying into the pool for future NEEDS!
HOW do you know they aren't SAVING THEIR MONEY in health savings accounts? How do you know they aren't accumulating "wealth" for later use?
WHO in the f..k are YOU idiots as well as a government THAT counts illegal aliens, they can't seem to come up with an accurate count of who is covered by Medicaid/Medicare
to tell people how to live their lives?

YET YOU same idiots totally IGNORE the GIGANTIC COST driver in the room..."Defensive Medicine" that costs $850 billion MORE then necessary each year!
WHY? Ignorance that's why!
For example some of you really ignorant people say "well the doctors get referral income when sending to specialists"!
Dumb f...ks! Never heard of the STARK LAW! Here look it UP! Stark Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YOU same idiots DEFEND ambulance chasing millionaire lawyers that average $200,000 a year much of it earned by settling 94% out of court lawsuits against insurance companies
that simply increase PREMIUMS! And so to keep from frivolous lawsuits consuming doctors/insurance companies "defensive medicine" practices!
Is it worth it folks?
So why not attack the COST drivers rather then destroyed our health system for less then 4 million truly uninsured that a 10% tax on the $270 billion lawyers make
would pay a $5,000 a year premium for each of the 4 million???

 

[healthmyths]

From the Census where they use the term "non-citizen" which also means "illegal Alien" per the IRS..

What an idiot. No Per the Irs, the term "non-citizen" does not mean "illegal Alien."

Sheesh.

This thread is a fail for you of epic proportions.

illegal immigrant n. an alien (non-citizen) who has entered the United States without government permission or stayed beyond the termination date of a visa.
(See: alien) illegal immigrant legal definition of illegal immigrant. illegal immigrant synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

"Undocumented aliens" are noncitizens without a lawful immigration status as defined in subsections (2) or (3) of this section, and who:
a. Entered the U.S. illegally; or
b. Were lawfully admitted but whose status expired or was revoked per United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).
Citizenship and Alien Status - Definitions


But ONCE AGAIN you idiots are DEFENDING the indefensible!
There are 10 million either non-citizens or illegal aliens counted as uninsured which has caused the bogus belief there are 46 million uninsured!
That is the whole point here and idiots like you defending the indefensible are truly grasping at minute straws!

 

[paperview]

Ferchistsake...you ever hear of the term Resident Alien?

Green card?

God almighty. The Stupid, it burns.

Tax Topics - Topic 851 Resident and Nonresident Aliens

 

[paperview]

"As of January 2010, an estimated 12.6 million green card holders resided in the United States."

Migration Information Source - Green Card Holders and Legal Immigration to the United States

Permanent residence

 

[healthmyths]

Like I said, you're wrong.

Your 3rd point and the 18 million under 34. They DO need insurance. No one in this country is immune from getting sick and/or injured so to act like these people don't need insurance is blatantly incorrect.

On top of that, you're not taking in to account the people before who DID have insurance and still went bankrupt or the people who had insurance and were denied coverage for preexisting conditions. Funny how you left that out.

So once again, you are wrong.

HEY I didn't do the statistics THESE are the sources NOT ME!!!
1) 10 million not citizens... Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
2) 14 million didn't know...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
3) 18 million that don't need...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

So first NONE of the above came from me.. source it!

2nd..
A) NOT ALL 18 million NEED insurance at the same time right now YOU agree!
B) YOU have NO idea how many have what is called "Catastrophic Insurance" with deductibles up to $10,000 meaning THEY make over $50,000 can afford that!

The point is YOU are forcing PEOPLE to buy something THEY don't want and don't NEED for MOST of them!

NOW for further facts regarding "bankruptcy" of the age under 34...
View attachment 28815
Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
UNDER 34..less the 1/10th of 1% of the entire USA population are bankrupt due to medical related.

AGAIN so when the totals of 42 million subtracted from Obama's bogus 46 million leaves 4 million!
NOW the BIGGEST problem was NEVER addressed that according to 90% of doctors say adds up to $850 billion a year WASTE!
By taxing lawyers 10% that CAUSE Doctors to practice i.e. send patients to duplicate tests,etc. "defensive medicine" 10% LIKE you idiots taxed tanning salons as tanning causes cancer,
the $27 billion would PAY the premiums for those 4 million that truly need it!
But selfish, ignorant people like you DON"T want that $850 billion touched BECAUSE IT means YOU might win the medical lawsuit LOTTERY!!!

90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Dumb people like you NEVER check the FACTS!
YOU GUESS.

Where in your link CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009 does it state "18 million that don't need".

Please copy and paste the exact paragraph that states this. Remember, you said the sources stated these things, not you. So quote the portion that states that 18 million don't need insurance.

You're a hack. Face it.

28% of the "46 million" is 12.8 million of the 18 million under 34 making over $50,000...

A new Gallup poll this week revealed that a substantial number of Americans are planning to do just that.
The poll found that 28% of Americans who are currently uninsured plan to pay the fine rather than purchase health insurance.
This represents a sizable portion of the estimated 17% of U.S. adults who do not currently have health insurance.
Gallup estimates that these numbers mean around 5% of all Americans will opt out of insurance and pay the government fine.
Over One Quarter of U.S. Uninsured Don?t Plan on Purchasing Health Insurance | WebProNews

Why are you idiots supporting ACA when ......
Seventy-seven percent of the uninsured told The [NY]Times that they disagree with the requirement to buy insurance, in the poll taken Dec. 5-8 of 1,000 adults and Dec. 4-15 of 702 of uninsured adults.

Polls: 77 Percent of Uninsured Don't Want Obamacare, Majority of Voters Want Repeal

 

[Faun]

YES it is an average of all the years for each year!!!

So f..king what?? There were 5,005,000 more jobs in 2008 then at the end of 2000!! PROVE THAT WRONG!

To show you how easy it is to prove you wrong, all I have to do is point out the idiocy of your retarded claim.....
U
You made two contradictory claims which I will highlight ...

1) you said the average employment for 2000 was 131,785,000.

2) but you also said 131,785,000 was the number of people employed at the end of 2000.

Both cannot be true unless there were 131,785,000 people employed at the end of 2000, which there were not.

So the questions to you are ....

1) Does the average employment for the year 2000 include January, 2000?

2) If it does, what the fuck does the January, 2000, employment figures have to do with George Bush, who was still a year away from being president?

Savvy?

1) YOU said CORRECTLY that this table said "Annual Averages" For the YEAR!

View attachment 28823 http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf

The Annual Average for 2000 was 131,785,000 Meaning STARTING 2001 There were an average of 131,785,000 people working in 2000!
Is that too hard of a NUMBER to comprehend? AVERAGE for the YEAR was 131,785,000!

Now this same table says THE AVERAGE for the YEAR 2008.. BUSH's LAST YEAR.. WAS :136,790,000

So USING THIS TABLE and simple math..
THE AVERAGE number for 2008 fully employed people was 136,790,000
The AVERAGE number for 2000 fully employed people was 131,785,000
THAT MEANS during the 8 years of Bush administration over 5,005,000 more people were working!

2) THE AVERAGE for 2000 is the STARTING POINT dumb fu...K! AS YOU correctly pointed OUT... IT IS THE "ANNUAL AVERAGE"!

You didn't answer the salient question ... since the average for 2000 includes employment going as far back as January, 2000, what relevance is that to Bush who was still a year away from being president?

If you want to calculate job growth under Bush, why wouldn't you start from the month he became president? Why would you dishonestly start from a year before he became president?

 

[jon_berzerk]

more good news for obamacare

two states a refusing to send any payment to obamacare website developer

until it is fixed

 

[Faun]

1) Prove this number is wrong! 10 million not citizens
go to the link: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

When do you stop lying?

Earlier, you said they were "illegal aliens."

I challenged you to show where your link said there were 10 million "illegal aliens." without insurance ........

.... and you have the nerve to respond to that by switching, "illegal aliens," to, "not citizens?"

Now I will quote you again ....

healthmyths: "10 million are not citizens"

Faun: "What does it matter that 10 million are not citizens? They are still without health insurance."

healthmyths: "Hey... illegal citizens should not be here in the first place. They should be put into jail ! There they would have health coverage!"​

...... so again, I challenge you to show me where in your link it states those 10 million non-U.S. citizens are "illegal aliens?"

Put up or shut up time.....

From the IRS....
Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.
Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

From the Census where they use the term "non-citizen" which also means "illegal Alien" per the IRS..

View attachment 28824

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

Why are you leading me to the IRS website? I challenged you to show me where the census website said there were 10 million illegal aliens without health insurance? That challenge can't be met with a link to the IRS. Obviously, you're linking to the IRS because even you know the census website doesn't say what you idiotically claimed it said.

The census merely says there were 10 million non U.S. citizens here without medical insurance. It doesn't say there were 10 million illegal aliens, as you falsely claimed.

While it's entirely possible that you're just too fucking rightarded to know that there are non U.S. citizens here legally , you are nonetheless wrong in your claim that there were only 4 million uninsured who needed insurance. And since you did say you would cease posting this idiocy if you were wrong, I fully expect that if you're a person of your word, you will not mention this again.

And trust me, staying away from this lunacy of yours is doing you a favor since it makes you appear so fucking retarded. I mean, seriously, how the fuck do you not know that there are non U.S. citizens here legally???

 

[healthmyths]

To show you how easy it is to prove you wrong, all I have to do is point out the idiocy of your retarded claim.....
U
You made two contradictory claims which I will highlight ...

1) you said the average employment for 2000 was 131,785,000.

2) but you also said 131,785,000 was the number of people employed at the end of 2000.

Both cannot be true unless there were 131,785,000 people employed at the end of 2000, which there were not.

So the questions to you are ....

1) Does the average employment for the year 2000 include January, 2000?

2) If it does, what the fuck does the January, 2000, employment figures have to do with George Bush, who was still a year away from being president?

Savvy?

1) YOU said CORRECTLY that this table said "Annual Averages" For the YEAR!

View attachment 28823 http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf

The Annual Average for 2000 was 131,785,000 Meaning STARTING 2001 There were an average of 131,785,000 people working in 2000!
Is that too hard of a NUMBER to comprehend? AVERAGE for the YEAR was 131,785,000!

Now this same table says THE AVERAGE for the YEAR 2008.. BUSH's LAST YEAR.. WAS :136,790,000

So USING THIS TABLE and simple math..
THE AVERAGE number for 2008 fully employed people was 136,790,000
The AVERAGE number for 2000 fully employed people was 131,785,000
THAT MEANS during the 8 years of Bush administration over 5,005,000 more people were working!

2) THE AVERAGE for 2000 is the STARTING POINT dumb fu...K! AS YOU correctly pointed OUT... IT IS THE "ANNUAL AVERAGE"!

You didn't answer the salient question ... since the average for 2000 includes employment going as far back as January, 2000, what relevance is that to Bush who was still a year away from being president?

If you want to calculate job growth under Bush, why wouldn't you start from the month he became president? Why would you dishonestly start from a year before he became president?

Well first of all The start of Bush was Jan 2001 and the ONLY figures available is the END of 2000!
The same for the end. You don't start at the beginning of 2009 but the END of 2008.. and here are the FACTS from the Bureau of Labor Statistics!!!

End of 2008 143,338,000 Employment Situation News Release
End of 2000 135,836,000 http://www.bls.gov/news.release/history/empsit_01052001.txt
After 8 years 7,502,000 More working end of 2008 then at end of 2000!

 

[Faun]

1) YOU said CORRECTLY that this table said "Annual Averages" For the YEAR!

View attachment 28823 http://www.citizen.org/documents/Historical_employment_data.pdf

The Annual Average for 2000 was 131,785,000 Meaning STARTING 2001 There were an average of 131,785,000 people working in 2000!
Is that too hard of a NUMBER to comprehend? AVERAGE for the YEAR was 131,785,000!

Now this same table says THE AVERAGE for the YEAR 2008.. BUSH's LAST YEAR.. WAS :136,790,000

So USING THIS TABLE and simple math..
THE AVERAGE number for 2008 fully employed people was 136,790,000
The AVERAGE number for 2000 fully employed people was 131,785,000
THAT MEANS during the 8 years of Bush administration over 5,005,000 more people were working!

2) THE AVERAGE for 2000 is the STARTING POINT dumb fu...K! AS YOU correctly pointed OUT... IT IS THE "ANNUAL AVERAGE"!

You didn't answer the salient question ... since the average for 2000 includes employment going as far back as January, 2000, what relevance is that to Bush who was still a year away from being president?

If you want to calculate job growth under Bush, why wouldn't you start from the month he became president? Why would you dishonestly start from a year before he became president?

Well first of all The start of Bush was Jan 2001 and the ONLY figures available is the END of 2000!
The same for the end. You don't start at the beginning of 2009 but the END of 2008.. and here are the FACTS from the Bureau of Labor Statistics!!!

End of 2008 143,338,000 Employment Situation News Release
End of 2000 135,836,000 http://www.bls.gov/news.release/history/empsit_01052001.txt
After 8 years 7,502,000 More working end of 2008 then at end of 2000!

How did you go from saying Bush added 5 million jobs to saying he added 7.5 million? Where did those extra 2.5 million folks comes from?

How many more guesses do you need?

Oh, and why are you omitting January, 2009 data since Bush was president for most of that month? And why are you including January, 2001 since Clinton was president for most of that month?

 

[RDD_1210]

HEY I didn't do the statistics THESE are the sources NOT ME!!!
1) 10 million not citizens... Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
2) 14 million didn't know...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
3) 18 million that don't need...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

So first NONE of the above came from me.. source it!

2nd..
A) NOT ALL 18 million NEED insurance at the same time right now YOU agree!
B) YOU have NO idea how many have what is called "Catastrophic Insurance" with deductibles up to $10,000 meaning THEY make over $50,000 can afford that!

The point is YOU are forcing PEOPLE to buy something THEY don't want and don't NEED for MOST of them!

NOW for further facts regarding "bankruptcy" of the age under 34...
View attachment 28815
Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
UNDER 34..less the 1/10th of 1% of the entire USA population are bankrupt due to medical related.

AGAIN so when the totals of 42 million subtracted from Obama's bogus 46 million leaves 4 million!
NOW the BIGGEST problem was NEVER addressed that according to 90% of doctors say adds up to $850 billion a year WASTE!
By taxing lawyers 10% that CAUSE Doctors to practice i.e. send patients to duplicate tests,etc. "defensive medicine" 10% LIKE you idiots taxed tanning salons as tanning causes cancer,
the $27 billion would PAY the premiums for those 4 million that truly need it!
But selfish, ignorant people like you DON"T want that $850 billion touched BECAUSE IT means YOU might win the medical lawsuit LOTTERY!!!

90% of physicians say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year
Health News Observer ? Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

Dumb people like you NEVER check the FACTS!
YOU GUESS.

Where in your link CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009 does it state "18 million that don't need".

Please copy and paste the exact paragraph that states this. Remember, you said the sources stated these things, not you. So quote the portion that states that 18 million don't need insurance.

You're a hack. Face it.

28% of the "46 million" is 12.8 million of the 18 million under 34 making over $50,000...

A new Gallup poll this week revealed that a substantial number of Americans are planning to do just that.
The poll found that 28% of Americans who are currently uninsured plan to pay the fine rather than purchase health insurance.
This represents a sizable portion of the estimated 17% of U.S. adults who do not currently have health insurance.
Gallup estimates that these numbers mean around 5% of all Americans will opt out of insurance and pay the government fine.
Over One Quarter of U.S. Uninsured Don?t Plan on Purchasing Health Insurance | WebProNews

Why are you idiots supporting ACA when ......
Seventy-seven percent of the uninsured told The [NY]Times that they disagree with the requirement to buy insurance, in the poll taken Dec. 5-8 of 1,000 adults and Dec. 4-15 of 702 of uninsured adults.

Polls: 77 Percent of Uninsured Don't Want Obamacare, Majority of Voters Want Repeal

So what you're saying is that you made up the part that "they don't need insurance".

Got it.

 

[paperview]

This thread is such a major fail.