Zone1 God's Covenant with Noah

Carl in Michigan

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Was God's covenant with Noah intended for all Mankind 4,000 years after the Flood, or was this for NOAH and the special circumstances he found himself under?

From a project I'm working on:

**Chapter 5

A World Without Fields, Orchards, or Stores**

Section 5.1 — Imagining the World After the Flood

When readers picture the end of the flood, they often imagine something close to the world we know today: animals grazing, plants growing, and Noah stepping out into a functioning ecosystem. Scripture, however, gives us reason to believe the reality was far harsher and far more fragile.

Genesis tells us the flood did not simply wash the earth clean; it undid creation itself. The separation of land and sea was reversed. Vegetation was destroyed. Topsoil was stripped away. What emerged from the waters was not a garden but a wounded planet.

There were no grain fields waiting to be harvested. No orchards heavy with fruit. No stored seed reserves. Noah and his family stepped into a world where survival itself was uncertain. The ark preserved life, but it could not preserve agriculture.

This matters, because ethical decisions in Scripture are often made within the context of necessity, not abundance. To read God’s words to Noah as though they were spoken in a stable, agricultural society is to miss the desperate reality of the moment.

Section 5.2 — Why Agriculture Could Not Yet Exist

Farming is not immediate. Even under ideal conditions, it requires prepared soil, seeds, seasons, and time. After the flood, none of these were guaranteed.

The earth had been submerged for months. Seeds in the ground would have rotted. Trees take years to mature. Vineyards take even longer. The idea that Noah could simply plant crops and wait is inconsistent with both Scripture and basic agricultural reality.

Genesis 8:22—“While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest… shall not cease”—is not a description of the present, but a promise for the future. It signals that predictable agricultural cycles were being re-established, not that they already existed.

In other words, God is not endorsing a preference for meat; He is responding to a world in which plant food was temporarily unavailable. This distinction between permission and preference is crucial for interpreting what follows.

Section 5.3 — Survival Permission Is Not Moral Ideal

In Genesis 9:3, God says, “Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.” This verse is often treated as a universal endorsement of meat consumption for all people at all times.

But Scripture itself does not support that reading.

Throughout the Bible, God regularly permits actions He does not delight in because of human limitation or circumstance. Divorce is permitted because of hardness of heart. Monarchy is allowed despite God’s warnings. Warfare is regulated without being celebrated.

The flood covenant fits this pattern. God meets humanity where it is—hungry, vulnerable, and facing extinction—and allows what is necessary to preserve life. The presence of restrictions immediately following this permission, particularly the prohibition against consuming blood, suggests restraint rather than enthusiasm.

If eating animals were God’s original or ideal plan, it would not appear first as an emergency measure after a global catastrophe.


Section 5.4 — The Covenant Is Addressed to Noah, Not a Modern World


It is easy to forget that Genesis 9 is spoken to specific people in a specific moment. God speaks directly to Noah and his sons, survivors of a cataclysm unlike anything humanity has experienced since.


To apply this covenant uncritically to people living in a world of grocery stores, refrigeration, global agriculture, and plant-based abundance is to ignore the massive difference in context.


Modern humans do not eat animals because we must in order to live. We eat them because we prefer to. That distinction carries moral weight.


When necessity disappears, moral responsibility increases. The question shifts from “What is allowed?” to “What best reflects God’s character?” A concession made to preserve life in a broken world cannot be automatically elevated to a timeless ethical ideal.

Section 5.5 — Reading Genesis 9 in Light of Eden and the Kingdom

Scripture does not begin with Genesis 9, nor does it end there. It begins in Eden, where God gives plants for food and declares creation “very good.” It ends in a restored Kingdom where violence ceases and harmony is renewed.

Genesis 9 sits between these two bookends—not as a destination, but as a detour through a fallen world.

When we read Noah’s permission in isolation, it appears definitive. When we read it within the full arc of Scripture, it appears temporary. God’s trajectory moves away from violence, not toward it; toward restoration, not accommodation.

The question for Christians, then, is not whether eating animals is ever permitted. The question is whether continuing to do so—when survival no longer demands it—aligns with the world God originally created and the Kingdom Christ proclaimed.
 
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I just don't think this hits any of the top ten or twenty or thirty learnable lessons for humanity, for us, in the Bible, or in Christ's message.... though I think you or the writer could be right...
 
4. Acts 10:13-15 – “And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.”

5. Romans 14:2-3 – “For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.”

6. 1 Timothy 4:4-5 – “For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”


11. Matthew 15:11 – “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”
 
4. Acts 10:13-15 – “And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.”
Peter himself told you the meaning of this vision. Why do you ignore what he told you and spread a lie?

Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right
 
Peter himself told you the meaning of this vision. Why do you ignore what he told you and spread a lie?

Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right

What lie??

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.”
 
buttercup

Do you have anything showing God instructed man NOT to eat animals?

Otherwise, you're making things up.

I hope that's not the case.
 
4. Acts 10:13-15 – “And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.”

^ Misuse of scripture. That vision was about salvation not being only for the Jews but also for Gentiles. Later in the text, it clearly states that Peter understood that as the purpose of the vision.

5. Romans 14:2-3 – “For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.”

^ Another misuse of scripture. That passage has nothing to do choosing to not eat meat for ethical reasons, it has to do with food that may have been sacrificed to false gods. Paul was trying to bring unity to two groups with different levels of sensitivity to the possibility of partaking in sacrifices to pagan gods. We can know that from reading other similar passages about idolatry and whether or not people should eat food that may have been sacrificed to idols.


6. 1 Timothy 4:4-5 – “For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”

^ Another misuse of scripture. First of all, the context before that verse was Paul addressing a Gnostic false teaching of strict asceticism and legalism. The idea that the material world is evil.

Secondly, the Greek word for "creature" is "ktisma", and ktisma isn't always translated as "creature" but as "created thing." So it's not talking about animals but every thing that God created. Now, if we read that verse in light of Genesis 1, is it clear that plants are the only thing God created for us to eat. (Genesis 1:29) And God called that good. (Genesis 1:31) God did not create animals to be food.

If that verse meant "every creature of God is good to eat" that would mean humans can be on the menu. :rolleyes: So obviously that's not what he's saying.

11. Matthew 15:11 – “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”

Another one flesh-eating Christians love to bring up. The context has nothing to do with what kinds of foods are being eaten, it has to do with the tradition of washing hands before eating.

Jesus was responding to the Pharisees accusing his disciples of being defiled because they ate with unwashed hands. There was never a divine instruction to wash hands before eating, but the Pharisees practiced hand washing before meals because it was a tradition of their elders.

Jesus was not permitting animal cruelty or saying anything about what should or should not be eaten. He was commenting on the man-made tradition of washing hands before eating. He used the opportunity to teach about the importance of having our heart set first and foremost on following God rather than on keeping human traditions.

In Matthew 15:20 Jesus made it clear that He was talking specifically about handwashing, not the kinds of food being eaten:


“These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”​
 
^ Misuse of scripture. That vision was about salvation not being only for the Jews but also for Gentiles. Later in the text, it clearly states that Peter understood that as the purpose of the vision.



^ Another misuse of scripture. That passage has nothing to do choosing to not eat meat for ethical reasons, it has to do with food that may have been sacrificed to false gods. Paul was trying to bring unity to two groups with different levels of sensitivity to the possibility of partaking in sacrifices to pagan gods. We can know that from reading other similar passages about idolatry and whether or not people should eat food that may have been sacrificed to idols.




^ Another misuse of scripture. First of all, the context before that verse was Paul addressing a Gnostic false teaching of strict asceticism and legalism. The idea that the material world is evil.

Secondly, the Greek word for "creature" is "ktisma", and ktisma isn't always translated as "creature" but as "created thing." So it's not talking about animals but every thing that God created. Now, if we read that verse in light of Genesis 1, is it clear that plants are the only thing God created for us to eat. (Genesis 1:29) And God called that good. (Genesis 1:31) God did not create animals to be food.

If that verse meant "every creature of God is good to eat" that would mean humans can be on the menu. :rolleyes: So obviously that's not what he's saying.



Another one flesh-eating Christians love to bring up. The context has nothing to do with what kinds of foods are being eaten, it has to do with the tradition of washing hands before eating.

Jesus was responding to the Pharisees accusing his disciples of being defiled because they ate with unwashed hands. There was never a divine instruction to wash hands before eating, but the Pharisees practiced hand washing before meals because it was a tradition of their elders.

Jesus was not permitting animal cruelty or saying anything about what should or should not be eaten. He was commenting on the man-made tradition of washing hands before eating. He used the opportunity to teach about the importance of having our heart set first and foremost on following God rather than on keeping human traditions.

In Matthew 15:20 Jesus made it clear that He was talking specifically about handwashing, not the kinds of food being eaten:

“These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”​

LOL

Give one scripture.......Just one, where God instructed man not to eat animals.


I'll wait.



:popcorn:
 
LOL

Give one scripture.......Just one, where God instructed man not to eat animals.


I'll wait.

:popcorn:

I think it's extremely sad that any Christian would have that mindset of "God didn't say I couldn't do it, so I'm going to do it!" That is self-serving and dismissive of what God's perfect will is.

God's perfect will is made clear both in the beginning and in the end. His intent for all creation was made clear in Genesis 1 - peace and harmony between humans and animals, and a non-violent, natural healthy plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30) When Jesus returns, the world will go back to how God always intended it to be, when "the wolf will dwell with the lamb...the lion will eat straw like the ox... none will harm or destroy another." (Isaiah 11:6-9)

God's perfect will is NOT for you to needlessly and selfishly kill animals that HE created to live alongside us peacefully... just to satisfy your fleshly desire.

So instead of saying, "What can I do?" or "what can I get away with".... the better question is, "What should I do?" What we should do is honor God's perfect will and obey His command to be merciful, which is stated throughout the bible.

He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the Lord require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your God?

Micah 6:8
 
LOL

Give one scripture.......Just one, where God instructed man not to eat animals.


I'll wait.



:popcorn:
It's sad that you get angry when presented with truth.

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea
 
I think it's extremely sad that any Christian would have that mindset of "God didn't say I couldn't do it, so I'm going to do it!" That is self-serving and dismissive of what God's perfect will is.

God's perfect will is made clear both in the beginning and in the end. His intent for all creation was made clear in Genesis 1 - peace and harmony between humans and animals, and a non-violent, natural healthy plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30) When Jesus returns, the world will go back to how God always intended it to be, when "the wolf will dwell with the lamb...the lion will eat straw like the ox... none will harm or destroy another." (Isaiah 11:6-9)

God's perfect will is NOT for you to needlessly and selfishly kill animals that HE created to live alongside us peacefully... just to satisfy your fleshly desire.

So instead of saying, "What can I do?" or "what can I get away with".... the better question is, "What should I do?" What we should do is honor God's perfect will and obey His command to be merciful, which is stated throughout the bible.

He has shown you, O man, what is good;​
And what does the Lord require of you​
But to do justly,​
To love mercy,​
And to walk humbly with your God?​
Micah 6:8

I understand how God created things in the beginning.

I also agree that after he returns, he will return the Earth and all creatures to original design.

But it clearly changed after the flood and God made that clear.

Until then, we are allowed to eat animals just like God said MANY times in his word.
 
So you be
I understand how God created things in the beginning.

I also agree that after he returns, he will return the Earth and all creatures to original design.

But it clearly changed after the flood and God made that clear.

Until then, we are allowed to eat animals just like God said MANY times in his word.
Live God made a covenant with you to slaughter His creation with His blessing. I posted the OP so you'd have something to consider. I'm not going to be led into endless debates on this. Accept it or reject it. I don't care
 
It's sad that you get angry when presented with truth.

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea

I agree in the beginning that's how things were created, but things changed after the flood.

Clearly.

Genesis 9​


3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
 
So you be

Live God made a covenant with you to slaughter His creation with His blessing. I posted the OP so you'd have something to consider. I'm not going to be led into endless debates on this. Accept it or reject it. I don't care

Just going by God's word........Not yours.

:beer:
 
I understand how God created things in the beginning.

I also agree that after he returns, he will return the Earth and all creatures to original design.

But it clearly changed after the flood and God made that clear.

Until then, we are allowed to eat animals just like God said MANY times in his word.

That's a very common view. That's probably how about 90% of Christians think.

But here's the thing. Throughout the Bible, we are told to have an eternal perspective. A big picture perspective.

And Jesus taught that we should want and pray for God's Kingdom to come and God's will to be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. (Matthew 6:10) In other words, God's perfect / heavenly will.

So if we have the choice between God's perfect will and God's permissive will... what should sincere practicing Christians aim for?

Also...the bible says that cruelty to animals is wicked. And the inescapable truth is that even in the best of circumstances, you can't separate flesh eating from cruelty, because the act of killing in and of itself is cruel. But in MOST cases, it's much worse than that. Most meat comes from factory farms, and what goes on there is literally like a horror movie. It is truly diabolical. So, as Christians, when we participate in that, we are (whether one realizes it or not) paying for cruelty and abuse. And doing that knowingly IS a sin.
 
That's a very common view. That's probably how about 90% of Christians think.

But here's the thing. Throughout the Bible, we are told to have an eternal perspective. A big picture perspective.

And Jesus taught that we should want and pray for God's Kingdom to come and God's will to be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. (Matthew 6:10) In other words, God's perfect / heavenly will.

So if we have the choice between God's perfect will and God's permissive will... what should sincere practicing Christians aim for?

Also...the bible says that cruelty to animals is wicked. And the inescapable truth is that even in the best of circumstances, you can't separate flesh eating from cruelty, because the act of killing in and of itself is cruel. But in MOST cases, it's much worse than that. Most meat comes from factory farms, and what goes on there is literally like a horror movie. It is truly diabolical. So, as Christians, when we participate in that, we are (whether one realizes it or not) paying for cruelty and abuse. And doing that knowingly IS a sin.

You'll have to come to the realization that you are arguing with what God said, not anything I said.

That's between you and God.

As for me, I will continue to lean on scripture, and it clearly backs up how and what I believe.
 
15th post
You'll have to come to the realization that you are arguing with what God said, not anything I said.

That's between you and God.

As for me, I will continue to lean on scripture, and it clearly backs up how and what I believe.

Wow, talk about inverting the truth. I have been saying repeatedly that as Christians we should want to honor God's perfect will and true intent for all creation... and to obey His commands to be merciful, which is stated throughout the bible. So I'M not the one arguing with God, you are! And you have yet to address any specific point I've made.

But as Carl said, I also don't want to get into yet another lengthy debate on this topic. I've been in so many debates on this topic, and it usually goes the same way. The response ALWAYS boils down to "We are allowed to do it"....which completely ignores the fact that just because we CAN do something (and even that is debatable) doesn't mean that we should.
 
You'll have to come to the realization that you are arguing with what God said, not anything I said.

That's between you and God.

As for me, I will continue to lean on scripture, and it clearly backs up how and what I believe.

You are not leaning on scripture. If you were, you would obey God's command to be merciful. And you would have an eternal perspective, which we are also told to do. And you would treat others (especially the most vulnerable among us) the way YOU would want to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot.
 
You'll have to come to the realization that you are arguing with what God said, not anything I said.

That's between you and God.

As for me, I will continue to lean on scripture, and it clearly backs up how and what I believe.
She speaks the truth. You lack understanding because of your cultural indoctrination
 
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