God and American Exceptionalism

[JakeStarkey]

It's always.....amusing.....to note how few rocks one must turn over in order to find an American who is willing to find a comparison between the United States, and Nazi Germany......

Be honest, PC: between the Nazis and the far right social traditionalists who play the race card when they overplay the white euro-centric genesis of America.

1. I'm always honest.....speak for yourself.

2. " ....between the Nazis and the far right social traditionalists...."

You reveal an abysmal ignorance of history. It was FDR and the New Dealers who associated and were aligned with the National Socialists and Mussolini's fascism. Pick up a copy of "Three New Deals: Reflections on Roosevelt's America, Mussolini's Italy, and Hitler's Germany, 1933-1939" by Wolfgang Schivelbusch

3. "...overplay the white euro-centric genesis of America..."

1. False. Repeatedly false.

2. Mises type revisionism of the basest sort: just complete crap. The work completely ignores the vast amount of work the American government did in trying to undermine fascism while an ignorant American isolationism ignored it generally.

3. White euro-centric American Exceptionalism as a defense for some of the worst parts of our history is nothing more than scapegoating.

The far right reactionaries, many of them social traditionalists like you, try but fail to convincingly rewrite American history.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Be honest, PC: between the Nazis and the far right social traditionalists who play the race card when they overplay the white euro-centric genesis of America.

1. I'm always honest.....speak for yourself.

2. " ....between the Nazis and the far right social traditionalists...."

You reveal an abysmal ignorance of history. It was FDR and the New Dealers who associated and were aligned with the National Socialists and Mussolini's fascism. Pick up a copy of "Three New Deals: Reflections on Roosevelt's America, Mussolini's Italy, and Hitler's Germany, 1933-1939" by Wolfgang Schivelbusch

3. "...overplay the white euro-centric genesis of America..."

1. False. Repeatedly false.

2. Mises type revisionism of the basest sort: just complete crap. The work completely ignores the vast amount of work the American government did in trying to undermine fascism while an ignorant American isolationism ignored it generally.

3. White euro-centric American Exceptionalism as a defense for some of the worst parts of our history is nothing more than scapegoating.

The far right reactionaries, many of them social traditionalists like you, try but fail to convincingly rewrite American history.

You're a dunce.


Don't be ignorant your whole life, take a day off why don't you?





Time to slice and dice:


1. Your narrative is geared toward minimizing the relationship between Roosevelt’s New Deal, and that of Mussolini and of Hitler…and that only due to the exigencies of the Second World War did it become necessary for Roosevelt to assume extreme powers identified with those of the other two regimes.

Not the case. In fact, had not the the horrors of the holocaust been revealed, FDR would have proudly continued the ties with the clones, Hitler and Mussolini.




2. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation.

a. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973:
“Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.”
http://www.freedomsite.net/93-549.htm





3. The National Socialists hailed these ‘relief measures’ in ways you will recognize:

a. May 11, 1933, the Nazi newspaper Volkischer Beobachter, (People’s Observer): “Roosevelt’s Dictatorial Recovery Measures.”

b. And on January 17, 1934, “We, too, as German National Socialists are looking toward America…” and “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” comparable to Hitler’s own dictatorial ‘Fuhrerprinzip.’

c. And “[Roosevelt], too demands that collective good be put before individual self-interest. Many passages in Roosevelt's book ‘Looking Forward’ could have been written by a National Socialist….one can assume that he feels considerable affinity with the National Socialist philosophy.”

d. The paper also refers to “…the fictional appearance of democracy.”





4. In 1938, American ambassador Hugh R. Wilson reported to FDR his conversations with Hitler: “Hitler then said that he had watched with interest the methods which you, Mr. President, have been attempting to adopt for the United States…. I added that you were very much interested in certain phases of the sociological effort, notably for the youth and workmen, which is being made in Germany…”
cited in “Franklin D. Roosevelt and Foreign Affairs,” vol.2, p. 27.




5. English and French commentators routinely depicted Roosevelt as akin to Mussolini. A more specific reason why, in 1933, the New Deal was often compared with Fascism was that with the help of a massive propaganda campaign, Italy had transitioned from a liberal free-market system to a state-run corporatist one. And corporatism was considered by elitists and intellectuals as the perfect response to the collapse of the liberal free-market economy, as was the national self-sufficiency of the Stalinist Soviet Union.

The National Recovery Administration was comparable to Mussolini’s corporatism as both had state control without actual expropriation of private property.

a. Mussolini wrote a book review of Roosevelt’s “Looking Forward,” in which he said “…[as] Roosevelt here calls his readers to battle, is reminiscent of the ways and means by which Fascism awakened the Italian people.”
Popolo d’Italia, July 7, 1933.

b. In 1934, Mussolini wrote a review of “New Frontiers,” by FDR’s Sec’y of Agriculture, later Vice-President, Henry Wallace:
“Wallace’s answer to what America wants is as follows: anything but a return to the free-market, i.e., anarchistic economy. Where is America headed? This book leaves no doubt that it is on the road to corporatism, the economic system of the current century.”
Marco Sedda, Il politico, vol. 64, p. 263.






6. Comparisons of the New Deal with totalitarian ideologies were provided from all sides.
A Republican senator described the NRA as having gone “too far in the Russian direction,” and a Democrat accused FDR of trying “to transplant Hitlerism to every corner of this country.”
Schivelbusch, “Three New Deals,” p. 27.



How ya' like that, booyyyyyyeeeeee???

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mises type explication by not putting the above into actual context with real narratives of the era.

In other words, you are twisting facts to a predetermined philosophy, instead of an evolving philosophy to the facts as they become available.

Gotta do better, Ms. Columbia: you are not holding up your end of the bargain.

 

[Agit8r]

Sounds familiar...

"Generation after generation of our Volk will march on thus in our history, with this banner always in mind, this banner that places us under an obligation to our Volk, its honor, its freedom, and our community — to our truly National Socialist fraternity. They will then consider it only natural that this German Volk takes but the one path Providence has bade it take by giving these people a common language. We, therefore, go our way into the future with the deepest belief in God. Would all we have achieved been possible had Providence not helped us? I know that the fruits of human labor are hard-won and transitory if they are not blessed by the Omnipotent. Work such as ours which has received the blessings of the Omnipotent can never again be undone by mere mortals."
-- Adolf Hitler; from speech at Regensburg City Hall (June 6, 1937)

It's always.....amusing.....to note how few rocks one must turn over in order to find an American who is willing to find a comparison between the United States, and Nazi Germany......

I did no such thing. I compared one doctrine of national exceptionalism, with another. Whenever a nation think that they are chosen by God--above all others--atrocity always has been the result. There are no exceptions to this rule in history.

 

[Billo_Really]

1.In the book of Exodus, we find Moses up on Mount Sinai, when he sees a bush, on fire, yet not being consumed by the flames. Moses has a colloquy with himself, commenting on the incident…actually saying ‘Look at that great thing!’ Only after he comments on the event does God call to him…and he replies ‘Here I am.” The explanation of that passage is that God wanted him to notice the remarkable occurrence.

2. On his recent radio show, in honor of the Fourth of July, Michael Medved discussed his belief that God not only had a special plan for the United States of America, but that He has often played a role in our history.

The following are some of the remarkable occurrences of which Americans should take note.






3. The 50th anniversary of independence (1776) was anticipated by the people of this nation,...it was the 'Golden Anniversary'!

On that day, July 4th, 1826, remarkably, both John Adams, 90 years old, and Thomas Jefferson, 83, were alive.
That, in itself, was remarkable.

And what are the odds that these men, having lived to see the 50th anniversary of independence would both die on that day?

The people of America recognized that remarkable occurrence as the Hand of God at work.
The founders commented on our biblical connection in many ways.....
One of the most poignant connections between the Exodus story and American history lies in the tale of the two images on the Great Seal of the United States.

a. After declaring independence on July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress charged Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin with recommending a design for the new nation’s seal. For the reverse of the Great Seal they agreed on a scene from the Exodus—Moses’ arm outstretched over the Red Sea, the Israelites crossing through the parted waters protected by a divine pillar of fire, and Pharaoh’s drowning army. They also chose the motto which Jefferson believed was associated with one of the regicides during the English Civil Wars: "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."






4.And, another.....certainly remarkable.
Prior to the Pilgrims landing, visits by other Europeans resulted in plague that wiped out most of the indigenous inhabitants. In fact, the Pilgrims found empty villages. But one of the residents had remained. This solitary Indian was invaluable to the Pilgrims, teaching them how to plant, hunt, and survive. What made him remain? What are the odds..... Sqanto....And he was there, waiting. And he spoke English! What are the odds?


a. "Hardly four months after the Mayflower reached Plymouth Rock.... an Indian reaches your outpost... he opens his mouth. He speaks English! More amazing, he does so with a British accent and the demeanor of someone who had lived and worked among England’s elite.... a Patuxet Indian, associated with the Wampanoag... lured ...onto [a British] ship, ostensibly to discuss the beaver trade. Instead, as MayflowerHistory.com explains, Hunt kidnapped them to sell them into slavery....“most dishonestly, and inhumanely, for their kind usage of me and all our men, carried them with him to Malaga, and there for a little private gain sold those silly savages for rials of eight.”

... However, local friars sabotaged his scheme. They gained custody of, freed, and Catholicized the remaining Indians, including Squanto. Squanto somehow talked his way to London... Squanto soon found himself bound for Newfoundland,... In 1619, ... Squanto crossed the Atlantic yet again. Destination: Plymouth. To Squanto’s horror, a suspected smallpox outbreak had annihilated his village. Squanto moved in with the nearby Wampanoag, including its leaders, Massasoit and Squanto’s brother Quadequina. Squanto, the Worldly Indian Who Dazzled the Pilgrims | National Review Online

God does not support a country that makes up lies to invade sovereign nations and kill millions of innocent men, women and children.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sounds familiar...

"Generation after generation of our Volk will march on thus in our history, with this banner always in mind, this banner that places us under an obligation to our Volk, its honor, its freedom, and our community — to our truly National Socialist fraternity. They will then consider it only natural that this German Volk takes but the one path Providence has bade it take by giving these people a common language. We, therefore, go our way into the future with the deepest belief in God. Would all we have achieved been possible had Providence not helped us? I know that the fruits of human labor are hard-won and transitory if they are not blessed by the Omnipotent. Work such as ours which has received the blessings of the Omnipotent can never again be undone by mere mortals."
-- Adolf Hitler; from speech at Regensburg City Hall (June 6, 1937)

It's always.....amusing.....to note how few rocks one must turn over in order to find an American who is willing to find a comparison between the United States, and Nazi Germany......

I did no such thing. I compared one doctrine of national exceptionalism, with another. Whenever a nation think that they are chosen by God--above all others--atrocity always has been the result. There are no exceptions to this rule in history.

1. With a multitude of choices in both literature and history, you chose a comparison with Nazi Germany.

Telling.


2. America is quite the exception. Never before has the sheer power been accumulated, and used so judiciously.



It's clear why you don't see this.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.In the book of Exodus, we find Moses up on Mount Sinai, when he sees a bush, on fire, yet not being consumed by the flames. Moses has a colloquy with himself, commenting on the incident…actually saying ‘Look at that great thing!’ Only after he comments on the event does God call to him…and he replies ‘Here I am.” The explanation of that passage is that God wanted him to notice the remarkable occurrence.

2. On his recent radio show, in honor of the Fourth of July, Michael Medved discussed his belief that God not only had a special plan for the United States of America, but that He has often played a role in our history.

The following are some of the remarkable occurrences of which Americans should take note.






3. The 50th anniversary of independence (1776) was anticipated by the people of this nation,...it was the 'Golden Anniversary'!

On that day, July 4th, 1826, remarkably, both John Adams, 90 years old, and Thomas Jefferson, 83, were alive.
That, in itself, was remarkable.

And what are the odds that these men, having lived to see the 50th anniversary of independence would both die on that day?

The people of America recognized that remarkable occurrence as the Hand of God at work.
The founders commented on our biblical connection in many ways.....
One of the most poignant connections between the Exodus story and American history lies in the tale of the two images on the Great Seal of the United States.

a. After declaring independence on July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress charged Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin with recommending a design for the new nation’s seal. For the reverse of the Great Seal they agreed on a scene from the Exodus—Moses’ arm outstretched over the Red Sea, the Israelites crossing through the parted waters protected by a divine pillar of fire, and Pharaoh’s drowning army. They also chose the motto which Jefferson believed was associated with one of the regicides during the English Civil Wars: "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."






4.And, another.....certainly remarkable.
Prior to the Pilgrims landing, visits by other Europeans resulted in plague that wiped out most of the indigenous inhabitants. In fact, the Pilgrims found empty villages. But one of the residents had remained. This solitary Indian was invaluable to the Pilgrims, teaching them how to plant, hunt, and survive. What made him remain? What are the odds..... Sqanto....And he was there, waiting. And he spoke English! What are the odds?


a. "Hardly four months after the Mayflower reached Plymouth Rock.... an Indian reaches your outpost... he opens his mouth. He speaks English! More amazing, he does so with a British accent and the demeanor of someone who had lived and worked among England’s elite.... a Patuxet Indian, associated with the Wampanoag... lured ...onto [a British] ship, ostensibly to discuss the beaver trade. Instead, as MayflowerHistory.com explains, Hunt kidnapped them to sell them into slavery....“most dishonestly, and inhumanely, for their kind usage of me and all our men, carried them with him to Malaga, and there for a little private gain sold those silly savages for rials of eight.”

... However, local friars sabotaged his scheme. They gained custody of, freed, and Catholicized the remaining Indians, including Squanto. Squanto somehow talked his way to London... Squanto soon found himself bound for Newfoundland,... In 1619, ... Squanto crossed the Atlantic yet again. Destination: Plymouth. To Squanto’s horror, a suspected smallpox outbreak had annihilated his village. Squanto moved in with the nearby Wampanoag, including its leaders, Massasoit and Squanto’s brother Quadequina. Squanto, the Worldly Indian Who Dazzled the Pilgrims | National Review Online

God does not support a country that makes up lies to invade sovereign nations and kill millions of innocent men, women and children.

Perhaps you and the boob from post #24 could engage in a 'beer summit.'

 

[Agit8r]

2. America is quite the exception. Never before has the sheer power been accumulated, and used so judiciously.

And, where do you suppose this restraint comes from?

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC is of course ignoring the American narrative of Exceptionalism when it comes to women, Native Americans, Mexicanos, Californios, Filipinos, slaves, indentured servants, and so forth and so on. Perverted protestant Christian exceptionalism was used to justify the exploitation of the unfortunates.

The crushing of fascism and militarism, under FDR of all people, was the height of true American Exceptionalism, and We the People have fallen far from those summits since then.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is of course ignoring the American narrative of Exceptionalism when it comes to women, Native Americans, Mexicanos, Californios, Filipinos, slaves, indentured servants, and so forth and so on. Perverted protestant Christian exceptionalism was used to justify the exploitation of the unfortunates.

The crushing of fascism and militarism, under FDR of all people, was the height of true American Exceptionalism, and We the People have fallen far from those summits since then.

No comment on the thorough spanking you received in post #22?

Not even a denial that you're a dunce?



Actually....the evisceration was so complete, there's no sense denying duncehood.

 

[PoliticalChic]

2. America is quite the exception. Never before has the sheer power been accumulated, and used so judiciously.

And, where do you suppose this restraint comes from?

Perhaps you should re-read the OP.....more carefully.

 

[Agit8r]

2. America is quite the exception. Never before has the sheer power been accumulated, and used so judiciously.

And, where do you suppose this restraint comes from?

Perhaps you should re-read the OP.....more carefully.

It certainly didn't come from people people who touted American Exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny, or the rest of it. It came from LIBERALS. If y'all want to think of us as a gift from God, so be it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC is of course ignoring the American narrative of Exceptionalism when it comes to women, Native Americans, Mexicanos, Californios, Filipinos, slaves, indentured servants, and so forth and so on. Perverted protestant Christian exceptionalism was used to justify the exploitation of the unfortunates.

The crushing of fascism and militarism, under FDR of all people, was the height of true American Exceptionalism, and We the People have fallen far from those summits since then.

No comment on the thorough spanking you received in post #22? Not even a denial that you're a dunce? Actually....the evisceration was so complete, there's no sense denying duncehood.

You got slapped so hard there is no way you can rebut my points above.

You are a journalistic hack pretending to commentary on social and political history.

Whine all you want, but your failings are obvious to the Board members.

When you are able to craft a consistent narrative that constructs a revision of our history with all of the facts in context, I will applaud you.

That time is apparently far away in another time in another galaxy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And, where do you suppose this restraint comes from?

Perhaps you should re-read the OP.....more carefully.

It certainly didn't come from people people who touted American Exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny, or the rest of it. It came from LIBERALS. If y'all want to think of us as a gift from God, so be it.

Earlier, I used to be amazed at how little you Leftists actually know....
Now I accept that the reason for your views is that you are ignorant.


Militarism was a cornerstone of the Progressives.

1. Progressives saw WWI as an opportunity to change America and enforce collectivization.

“In 1917, as Woodrow Wilson prepared to take the United States into the European war, the leading collectivist intellectuals of the day, John Dewey and Herbert Croly of The New Republic, beat the drums for American participation. …Dewey wrote that the progressive opponents of war were blind to the “immense impetus to reorganization afforded by this war.” He hoped they would work “to form ... the conditions and objects of our entrance.” In other words, they should exploit the opportunities war bestowed for collectivizing America. Croly was pithier: “The American nation needs the tonic of a serious moral adventure.”
http://fff.org/freedom/fd0203c.asp


a. “Once the war is on, the conviction spreads that individual thought is helpless, that the only way one can count is as a cog in the great wheel. There is no good holding back. We are told to dry our unnoticed and ineffective tears and plunge into the great work.”
From a Randolph Bourne essay published in June 1917, “The War and the Intellectuals.”

b. Dewey reveled in the thought that the war might force Americans to “give up much of our economic freedom…we shall have to lay by our good natured individualism and march in step.”
Taking liberties - latimes.com


It was Dewey who urged Progressives to re-name themselves Liberals.

Did you know that?

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is of course ignoring the American narrative of Exceptionalism when it comes to women, Native Americans, Mexicanos, Californios, Filipinos, slaves, indentured servants, and so forth and so on. Perverted protestant Christian exceptionalism was used to justify the exploitation of the unfortunates.

The crushing of fascism and militarism, under FDR of all people, was the height of true American Exceptionalism, and We the People have fallen far from those summits since then.

No comment on the thorough spanking you received in post #22? Not even a denial that you're a dunce? Actually....the evisceration was so complete, there's no sense denying duncehood.

You got slapped so hard there is no way you can rebut my points above.

You are a journalistic hack pretending to commentary on social and political history.

Whine all you want, but your failings are obvious to the Board members.

When you are able to craft a consistent narrative that constructs a revision of our history with all of the facts in context, I will applaud you.

That time is apparently far away in another time in another galaxy.

I skewered you, and now you're squealing, porky......

"You got slapped so hard there is no way you can rebut my points above."

You didn't used to be a liar.....now, it seems that's all you can come back with.


Post #22 is factual, documented and linked.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No comment on the thorough spanking you received in post #22? Not even a denial that you're a dunce? Actually....the evisceration was so complete, there's no sense denying duncehood.

You got slapped so hard there is no way you can rebut my points above.

You are a journalistic hack pretending to commentary on social and political history.

Whine all you want, but your failings are obvious to the Board members.

When you are able to craft a consistent narrative that constructs a revision of our history with all of the facts in context, I will applaud you.

That time is apparently far away in another time in another galaxy.

I skewered you, and now you're squealing, porky......"You got slapped so hard there is no way you can rebut my points above." You didn't used to be a liar.....now, it seems that's all you can come back with. Post #22 is factual, documented and linked.

And remains inconsistent with all the evidence and narrative of the era. You made a shambles of all of the relevancy of history, picking a strange theme not supported by the composite of the era's events. Your antagonist, the very man who led the free world to the overthrow of fascism and militarism, is the epitome of the very American Exceptionalism that you tout.

 

[rdean]

American exceptionalism. That would be Blue States.

Red States? Not so much.

 

[Agit8r]

Perhaps you should re-read the OP.....more carefully.

It certainly didn't come from people people who touted American Exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny, or the rest of it. It came from LIBERALS. If y'all want to think of us as a gift from God, so be it.

Earlier, I used to be amazed at how little you Leftists actually know....
Now I accept that the reason for your views is that you are ignorant.


Militarism was a cornerstone of the Progressives.

1. Progressives saw WWI as an opportunity to change America and enforce collectivization.

“In 1917, as Woodrow Wilson prepared to take the United States into the European war, the leading collectivist intellectuals of the day, John Dewey and Herbert Croly of The New Republic, beat the drums for American participation. …Dewey wrote that the progressive opponents of war were blind to the “immense impetus to reorganization afforded by this war.” He hoped they would work “to form ... the conditions and objects of our entrance.” In other words, they should exploit the opportunities war bestowed for collectivizing America. Croly was pithier: “The American nation needs the tonic of a serious moral adventure.”
http://fff.org/freedom/fd0203c.asp


a. “Once the war is on, the conviction spreads that individual thought is helpless, that the only way one can count is as a cog in the great wheel. There is no good holding back. We are told to dry our unnoticed and ineffective tears and plunge into the great work.”
From a Randolph Bourne essay published in June 1917, “The War and the Intellectuals.”

b. Dewey reveled in the thought that the war might force Americans to “give up much of our economic freedom…we shall have to lay by our good natured individualism and march in step.”
Taking liberties - latimes.com


It was Dewey who urged Progressives to re-name themselves Liberals.

Did you know that?

Liberalism--new and old--is anti-imperialist. Even what you quoted notes that Dewey was an exception, rather than the rule.

 

[Moonglow]

What a load, God went on vacation in 1524 and has yet to return to his office.

 

[Billo_Really]

Perhaps you and the boob from post #24 could engage in a 'beer summit.'

Perhaps you should address the point I made?