GM Volt Sales Artificially Inflated As Dealers Sale To Other Dealers For Tax Credits

[daveman]

They make every bit of our commerse possible.

without our government there would be no infrastructure for these businesses to operate on.
Now when someone does something shitty because the law writers could not imagine their shitty behavior in advance and write a BLOCK in the law to prevent that shitty behavior the shitty behavior is not the fault of the law writer its the fault of the person who actually does the shitty act.


This whole thing shows you can not trust a business to do the right thing , you have to have the gov and us protected under our laws to prevent them from doing the wrong thing.

This whole thing show you can't trust Democrats to write laws.

 

[Trajan]

A few responses to comments here:

1) Indeed, Volts are basically sold out. A few are available at a premium, but most buyers resist paying the premium.

2) Going by VIN#, GM has built about 4,000 Volts. Roughly half are sold, and half are for dealer demos and other purposes.

3) The Hamtramck plant is shutting down in June, to retool for increased production. Year-end target remains 10,000 Volts.

4) GM recently boosted its 2012 production plans for the Volt by one third, to 60,000 vehicles.

5) As a Volt owner and a GM-Volt.com regular, I can assure you that all of us are thrilled with the Volt. Most of us believe that it is the best car we've ever owned, and that includes some very nice cars. My previous car was a BMW 540i Sport.

6) It's safe to say that we all wish that the Volt was not a political football. It clouds an otherwise great experience. And it's doubly painful given that that the Volt is an American product (albeit with some foreign components).

Of course, the Volt is not suited for everyone, like for Warrior102.

Frankly, I'm very close to waiving my $7,500 tax credit. The Volt is worth every bit of its full price in my view, and I am tormented by the thought that anyone (including you crazies here at USMessageBoard.com) might think of me as some sort of bastard for buying an American car that in many ways represents the future of automotive transportation.

Finally, regarding the tax-credit dealer scam, Form 8936 stipulates that the buyer, "acquired the vehicle for use or to lease to others, and **not for resale**." That's pretty clear language. That said, we all know that there are plenty of scum-bags who will do almost anything to break laws, especially U.S. tax laws. Personally, I hope that these folks are caught and punished.

Let the flames begin.

Chris

nice post, seriously thx.

however a few Q's if I may-

do you have other vehicles, do you commute in the volt, if so how far, if not why not do you have a family with children under 18 at home and is your HH income above say 120K a year?

 

[Publius1787]

They make every bit of our commerse possible.

without our government there would be no infrastructure for these businesses to operate on.
Now when someone does something shitty because the law writers could not imagine their shitty behavior in advance and write a BLOCK in the law to prevent that shitty behavior the shitty behavior is not the fault of the law writer its the fault of the person who actually does the shitty act.


This whole thing shows you can not trust a business to do the right thing , you have to have the gov and us protected under our laws to prevent them from doing the wrong thing.

This whole thing show you can't trust Democrats to write laws.

And the welfare/unemployment/wic/medicaid/foodstamp/subsidised housing/subsidised electricity/subsidised transportation laws are the worst of them all!

 

[Slapshot28]

The Volt tax credit falls under The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-58), a bill passed by the United States Congress on July 29, 2005, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Following that, IRS Form 8936 (for the $7,500 tax credit) was first available for cars put into use in 2008, prior to the previous presidential election.

Obama did bail out GM. It was one of many bail-outs that started in March, 2008 (with JP Morgan) and crested at the end of 2009 (essentially all signed by Bush).

I hate the idea of heavy-handed government. That said, we do need leadership; and leadership must assume some form. While George W. was not my favorite president, especially toward the end of his presidency, I do applaud the effort he and Congress made in 2005 to lead America toward better and more efficient use of energy.

[preach mode on]

What ever happened to the silent majority? Given the waves of divisiveness that have nearly strangled our country, today we need strong leadership more than I ever can remember.

Let's bring back moderacy and re-unite America.

[preach-mode off]

 

[bucs90]

But its for the "enviiiiiironment" and makes Obama look good. So it's ok....mmmmkay?

 

[Trajan]

Social engineering gone awry....The dealerships are doing exactly what you'd expect them to do.

yup, so they deserve the same beatings the banks got....

 

[GHook93]

GM 2011 Volt Sales Artificially Inflated As Dealers Sale To Other Dealers For $7,500 Tax Credits

I heard it on the local news and I had to see it for myself!


GM sales are artificially inflated as Dealers sell the new Chevy Volt to other Dealers for the $7,500 tax credit plus any applicable state tax credits which exists in many states. Here is an example of a new 2011 Used Chevy Volt with only 11 miles on it. Used 2011 Chevrolet Volt for Sale by Capitol Chevrolet or this one with 131 miles on it. 2011 Crystal Red Metallic Tintcoat Chevrolet Volt Base Hatchback for Sale in Raleigh, North Carolina , 1G1RD6E47BU102121 with 131 miles for $0 - New Car Auto Classifieds or this one with 293 miles. Used 2011 Chevrolet Volt 5dr HB for sale in Phoenix, AZ 85014 or this one with 10 miles on it Used 2011 Chevrolet Volt For Sale | Chicago IL | Serving Oak Lawn, Glenview and Elmhurst or this one with 4 miles on it. 2011 Used Chevrolet Volt Hatchback at Multi Chevrolet Serving Union, NJ | Buick, Cadillac, Geo, GM, GMC, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Subaru, IID 6687189

Note that these cars are all used and that GM is owned by the federal government. So why dont they sale these cars for $7,500 less instead of adding a $7,500Tax Credit? Well because GM can make more money this way (helping auto unions) and Barack Obama can come back to tout his artificial success when sales go up. Not to mention his effort to drive gas prices sky high which is yet another incentive. The problem is that the sales are inflated as the Dealers are buying volts from each other and selling them as used which gets Chevy out of its new car perks and allowes dealers to cheat the system and scam their customers. Keep this in mind when they say there is a demand for electric vehicles so the government needs to invest more money is this crappy car that gets 30 miles on electric and 30mpg on expensive premium fuel. Not to mention that the batteries cost a fortune and repairing the car costs way more than a normal car. And if that werent bad enough it costs $41,000 after the tax credit WHICH IS STILL TOUSANDS HIGHER THAN ITS TOYOTA COUNTERPART! Why buy a Volt when you can buy a Toyota Prius that gets 20 more miles to the gallon (50mpg) than the Volt and costs $20,000 less? Even with all that bailout money those union workers cant prduce a better and cheaper car than Toyota! http://steinbergfiles.com/?p=711 ................. The 3rd Generation Toyota Prius Hybrid

More used Volts. Some with 0 miles.
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Houston, TX - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Baltimore, MD - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Chicago, IL - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Los Angeles, CA - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Dallas, TX - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Philadelphia, PA - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Phoenix, AZ - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Portland, OR - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale San Francisco, CA - CarGurus
Used Chevrolet Volt For Sale Washington, DC - CarGurus








Here is what a normally used 2011 car looks like. look at the difference in the mileage!
Used 2011 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LS For Sale | Decatur IL
Used 2011 Chevrolet Traverse LT1 For Sale | PCC28969
Used 2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT w/1LT For Sale | Medford OR
Woody's Automotive Group: Used 2011 Chevrolet HHR For Sale in Missouri
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2011 Chevrolet Impala for sale in Mena, AR – Bob Carver's Cars and Trucks
Used 2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT w 1LT (Gold SUV) Ruston, Louisiana

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The Steinberg Files is a conservative political and legal website, maintained by Professor David Steinberg. Coypright reserved on all original postings. We welcome all political and legal views. Please enjoy the site, and feel free to participate.

That doesn't mean it's wrong junky. However, I have my suspicions on a car dealership being able to claim the tax credit. I could see a municipality, business buying them for employees or consumers themselves, but I can't see the law being so poorly written that dealers could claim it!

 

[daveman]

That doesn't mean it's work junky. However, I have my suspicions on a care dealership being able to claim the tax credit. I could see a municipality, business buying them for employees or consumers themselves, but I can't see the law being so poorly written that dealers could claim it!

Who wrote the law?

 

[Slapshot28]

do you have other vehicles, do you commute in the volt, if so how far, if not why not do you have a family with children under 18 at home and is your HH income above say 120K a year?

We have 5 kids, ranging from 14 to 24. My wife drives a Pontiac Torrent (SUV), and our older kids drive: a Rav4, a VW Jetta, and a Saab 9-3.

I do commute daily, generally about 20 miles, sometimes more. I also have taken the Volt on long trips (to NH and NC).

My wife and I both work full-time.

 

[GHook93]

It's great that you love your Volt. My objection is how it was made possible with my money.

You didn't subsidize my car; I shouldn't have to subsidize yours.

Sometimes subsidies are good. America (and the world) needs to get off foreign black crack. It will be like an economic nuclear bomb to Russia, the Middle East, North Africa and Venezuela!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Volt tax credit falls under The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-58), a bill passed by the United States Congress on July 29, 2005, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Following that, IRS Form 8936 (for the $7,500 tax credit) was first available for cars put into use in 2008, prior to the previous presidential election.

Obama did bail out GM. It was one of many bail-outs that started in March, 2008 (with JP Morgan) and crested at the end of 2009 (essentially all signed by Bush).

I hate the idea of heavy-handed government. That said, we do need leadership; and leadership must assume some form. While George W. was not my favorite president, especially toward the end of his presidency, I do applaud the effort he and Congress made in 2005 to lead America toward better and more efficient use of energy.

[preach mode on]

What ever happened to the silent majority? Given the waves of divisiveness that have nearly strangled our country, today we need strong leadership more than I ever can remember.

Let's bring back moderacy and re-unite America.

[preach-mode off]

Taxes are for the government to raise revenue, nothing else. Using the tax code to encourage anything other than getting money into the government coffers encourages abuse and people who game the system. I do not care who sponsors or signs laws like this, they are always wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's great that you love your Volt. My objection is how it was made possible with my money.

You didn't subsidize my car; I shouldn't have to subsidize yours.

Sometimes subsidies are good. America (and the world) needs to get off foreign black crack. It will be like an economic nuclear bomb to Russia, the Middle East, North Africa and Venezuela!

Subsidies are never good. They raise prices for consumers as they tax them to pay for inefficiency.
Please name one subsidy scheme that actually worked out well. There isn't one.

 

[GHook93]

It's great that you love your Volt. My objection is how it was made possible with my money.

You didn't subsidize my car; I shouldn't have to subsidize yours.

Sometimes subsidies are good. America (and the world) needs to get off foreign black crack. It will be like an economic nuclear bomb to Russia, the Middle East, North Africa and Venezuela!

Subsidies are never good. They raise prices for consumers as they tax them to pay for inefficiency.
Please name one subsidy scheme that actually worked out well. There isn't one.

Our farming subsidies keep our food made stateside! China utilizes a ton of successful subsidies like paper and precious metals!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sometimes subsidies are good. America (and the world) needs to get off foreign black crack. It will be like an economic nuclear bomb to Russia, the Middle East, North Africa and Venezuela!

Subsidies are never good. They raise prices for consumers as they tax them to pay for inefficiency.
Please name one subsidy scheme that actually worked out well. There isn't one.

Our farming subsidies keep our food made stateside! China utilizes a ton of successful subsidies like paper and precious metals!

Even the people that support farm subsidies admit that they do not work. As for China, how is them subsidizing anything proof that subsidies work?

 

[Truthseeker420]

nice looking car. I would drive one.

 

[TheGutterMaster]

I don't see why this has to be so political.

This tax credit applies to all car manufacturers, not just GM.

Now that someone posted a link to President Bush signing away these subsidies, the argument has changed.

This used to be "it's about obamas big bad government making more money."

Now, it is simply "subsidies are bad."

Nobody said subsidies would be a magical solution to the economical woes we still have with stuff like electric cars. These tax credits are aimed at encouraging growth in different sectors of the economy.

Key word is "encouraging." Not actually "creating" growth.

Although you can say it "helped" create growth in the 1990s when the government was subsidizing technology.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't see why this has to be so political.

This tax credit applies to all car manufacturers, not just GM.

Now that someone posted a link to President Bush signing away these subsidies, the argument has changed.

This used to be "it's about obamas big bad government making more money."

Now, it is simply "subsidies are bad."

Nobody said subsidies would be a magical solution to the economical woes we still have with stuff like electric cars. These tax credits are aimed at encouraging growth in different sectors of the economy.

Key word is "encouraging." Not actually "creating" growth.

Although you can say it "helped" create growth in the 1990s when the government was subsidizing technology.

Your perception of the argument changed. I have always argued that using taxes for anything but revenue is bad. You saw that as an attack on Obama until someone pointed out that Bush actually signed these things into law. Now that you cannot blame me hating these things on me being a racist you have to argue that I am inconsistent, even though I am not.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sometimes subsidies are good. America (and the world) needs to get off foreign black crack. It will be like an economic nuclear bomb to Russia, the Middle East, North Africa and Venezuela!

Subsidies are never good. They raise prices for consumers as they tax them to pay for inefficiency.
Please name one subsidy scheme that actually worked out well. There isn't one.

Our farming subsidies keep our food made stateside! China utilizes a ton of successful subsidies like paper and precious metals!

Our milk is 25% above where it should be. Cheese is 50%. Farm subsidies are probably the worst gov't programs out there, with a lot of the benefit not going to family farms but big corporations. They raise prices for consumers while destroying the free market in farming and ironically putting a lot of small farmers out of business.
Try again.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Volt tax credit falls under The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-58), a bill passed by the United States Congress on July 29, 2005, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Following that, IRS Form 8936 (for the $7,500 tax credit) was first available for cars put into use in 2008, prior to the previous presidential election.

Obama did bail out GM. It was one of many bail-outs that started in March, 2008 (with JP Morgan) and crested at the end of 2009 (essentially all signed by Bush).

I hate the idea of heavy-handed government. That said, we do need leadership; and leadership must assume some form. While George W. was not my favorite president, especially toward the end of his presidency, I do applaud the effort he and Congress made in 2005 to lead America toward better and more efficient use of energy.

[preach mode on]

What ever happened to the silent majority? Given the waves of divisiveness that have nearly strangled our country, today we need strong leadership more than I ever can remember.

Let's bring back moderacy and re-unite America.

[preach-mode off]

Obama wasn't president in March 2008.
Bush went to congress to get TARP funds extended to GM and they refused. He did it anyway under executive authority.
WTF is "moderacy"??

 

[Slapshot28]

I agree with most folks here that directed taxes/subsidies are obnoxious, and often go haywire. There is an analogy: Pay for Performance. If you run a company, you know the advantages and the pitfalls.

I do not favor of totally flat taxes (and presumably zero subsidies), just as I do not favor flat payroll. That is even more unfair. But as soon as math comes into play, game on.

In my view, carefully-architected fiscal policy is better than no fiscal policy at all.

BTW, by “moderacy” I mean: not extreme, partisan, or radical.