GM Bailout Looking like a win for Obama

[Care4all]

Odd isn't it? Ford didn't go that route as neither did Toyota and others that run plants here in the U.S.

Management allowed themselves to be run over with demands they knew they couldn't meet. So the U.S. Taxpayer to the rescue.

Sorry guys...the U.S. Treasury is not a private piggybank.

Tell that to President Bush, who did have the figures and briefings on the whole situation before he gave them the bailout....

He struggled with this decision, but still felt it was necessary for the good of the Nation, to do it...?

the banks?

the banks? you mean, because of the Financial Industry collapse and the housing market collapse, President bush felt the auto industry had to have this bail out?

I guess, I do not understand what you mean Elvis?

 

[Trajan]

Bush knew GM could not be allowed to collapse. Obama knew that GM could not be allowed to collapse. Any president under those conditions would have stepped in to prevent collapse

The only ones who don't know are the rightwing Darwinists who want to see total destruction

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

 

[elvis]

Tell that to President Bush, who did have the figures and briefings on the whole situation before he gave them the bailout....

He struggled with this decision, but still felt it was necessary for the good of the Nation, to do it...?

the banks?

the banks? you mean, because of the Financial Industry collapse and the housing market collapse, President bush felt the auto industry had to have this bail out?

I guess, I do not understand what you mean Elvis?

the banks had to be bailed out or the economy would have crumbled worse than it did....
far worse.

 

[Care4all]

Bush knew GM could not be allowed to collapse. Obama knew that GM could not be allowed to collapse. Any president under those conditions would have stepped in to prevent collapse

The only ones who don't know are the rightwing Darwinists who want to see total destruction

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

President bush said a chapter 11 bankruptcy would not have worked on its own, without the bailout, in that video clip I put up in an above post....he said it would have made the automakers to completely collapse due to americans not buying their cars anymore, with concerns over reliability and maintenance....

 

[rightwinger]

Bush knew GM could not be allowed to collapse. Obama knew that GM could not be allowed to collapse. Any president under those conditions would have stepped in to prevent collapse

The only ones who don't know are the rightwing Darwinists who want to see total destruction

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

News for you- Companies run on capital. GM is not a mom and pop grocery store restructuring its debt. NOBODY but the US Government had the capital to back up GM. Of course the right wingnuts screamed "Let it fail...it will only fail anyway"

Obama stood up and saved GM

 

[Care4all]

Bush knew GM could not be allowed to collapse. Obama knew that GM could not be allowed to collapse. Any president under those conditions would have stepped in to prevent collapse

The only ones who don't know are the rightwing Darwinists who want to see total destruction

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

News for you- Companies run on capital. GM is not a mom and pop grocery store restructuring its debt. NOBODY but the US Government had the capital to back up GM. Of course the right wingnuts screamed "Let it fail...it will only fail anyway"

Obama stood up and saved GM

No rightwinger, President Bush is the one that had the balls to save them imho....all Obama did was work out the deal President bush had started...and made certain it came in to fruition....which was not an easy task....

yes, Obama took the flack and the rebellion of the public on this, but the deal was done, the bailout was done in terms of money set aside for them, under President Bush.

 

[Trajan]

Bush knew GM could not be allowed to collapse. Obama knew that GM could not be allowed to collapse. Any president under those conditions would have stepped in to prevent collapse

The only ones who don't know are the rightwing Darwinists who want to see total destruction

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

News for you- Companies run on capital.

whoa......take it easy there or you'll start to sound like a free market proponent.

GM is not a mom and pop grocery store restructuring its debt. NOBODY but the US Government had the capital to back up GM. Of course the right wingnuts screamed "Let it fail...it will only fail anyway"

Obama stood up and saved GM

co's restructure debt all the time, they shrink their bus. model and restart, they didn't need capital so much as moratorium and or a restructure of their debt. , new mgt. and restructuring to fit a new bus model. I am sorry if that fact disappoints you, what happened was we gave 20% to Canada and 17% to its employees......and stick us with the tab. pay us back We'll see.


I guess this makes you a proponent of the to big to fail grp. okay so whats all the bitching abut bailing out the banks, they needed massive capital and were to big to fail too? yes? Or wall st. firms with cds and mbs toxic loads? you okay with all that?

exit question- what happens when they are on the cusp again? Or Ford?

 

[asterism]

President Bush has to be given some of the credit for this, HE is the one that actually began the bailouts in the working for the auto industry back in late 2008

Yeah, and he can share the blame.

The people who got totally burned in this one are the original bond holders.

Give me $50 billion and let me shaft my current investors and I can make a "profit" too.

but wouldn't the bond holders have ZERO, NADA, NOTHING at all, IF president Bush and President Obama and congress did nothing?

and I am not saying that the bail out for them was the way for our presidents to proceed with them, but the companies would probably not exist today and the stock/bond holders of the company would have ZIP anyway, if the bailouts were not done....no?

No. The assets of the company are the property of the bondholders to either sell or restructure into a viable company. They probably would have sold to a group that wanted to remake GM.

But that wasn't satisfactory to the UAW, especially with the back room sweetheart deal Obama cut for them by nationalizing the company.

 

[The T]

President Bush has to be given some of the credit for this, HE is the one that actually began the bailouts in the working for the auto industry back in late 2008

Yeah, and he can share the blame.

The people who got totally burned in this one are the original bond holders.

Give me $50 billion and let me shaft my current investors and I can make a "profit" too.

but wouldn't the bond holders have ZERO, NADA, NOTHING at all, IF president Bush and President Obama and congress did nothing?

and I am not saying that the bail out for them was the way for our presidents to proceed with them, but the companies would probably not exist today and the stock/bond holders of the company would have ZIP anyway, if the bailouts were not done....no?

And what business is it of the POTUS in a free market? Under what authority to 'Do something' but stay out of the way to ensure they sink or swim of thier own accord.

First one must assume that business does not exist just to give a man a job.

 

[asterism]

news for you- there are differing type of bankruptcies....bankruptcy does not end a co's life unless the owners want to just pull the plug, they REORGANIZE..... you just bought the spin is all, hello.

News for you- Companies run on capital. GM is not a mom and pop grocery store restructuring its debt. NOBODY but the US Government had the capital to back up GM. Of course the right wingnuts screamed "Let it fail...it will only fail anyway"

Obama stood up and saved GM

No rightwinger, President Bush is the one that had the balls to save them imho....all Obama did was work out the deal President bush had started...and made certain it came in to fruition....which was not an easy task....

yes, Obama took the flack and the rebellion of the public on this, but the deal was done, the bailout was done in terms of money set aside for them, under President Bush.

Bush committed $17B to a plan that wasn't going to work. Obama nationalized the company and screwed the bondholders to give the UAW a gift at a cost of another $33B. But go ahead and blame Bush now that this is all turning out to be another Marxist scam.

 

[Chris]

The GM bailout worked great and now the government can gradually sell their shares off over time.

Another success story for Obama.

 

[syrenn]

coming in late.

Here is my problem with GM and the bailout. Nothing has changed. The unions that got them into all of this mess are still running the show at GM. I think GM will be right back in the same position of needing a bail out when the union comes back and flex their greedy paws again.

 

[Chris]

coming in late.

Here is my problem with GM and the bailout. Nothing has changed. The unions that got them into all of this mess are still running the show at GM. I think GM will be right back in the same position of needing a bail out when the union comes back and flex their greedy paws again.

The unions have nothing to do with anything.

Ford has unions.

The problem is they built crappy cars.

 

[asterism]

The GM bailout worked great and now the government can gradually sell their shares off over time.

Another success story for Obama.

If you mean losing money at running a business and managing equities, I agree. Notice the very generous tax breaks too.

 

[Care4all]

coming in late.

Here is my problem with GM and the bailout. Nothing has changed. The unions that got them into all of this mess are still running the show at GM. I think GM will be right back in the same position of needing a bail out when the union comes back and flex their greedy paws again.

The unions have nothing to do with anything.

Ford has unions.

The problem is they built crappy cars.

Very true, on GM and the cars they created....this is an upper management problem, a problem with foresight, on what the consumers wanted, a problem with their designs, and product.

But I do think it has also been a problem with their upper management agreeing to certain union requests....for example, when unions were requesting more money, way back when, and they settled on giving them more benefits instead, like Cadillac health care plans....was short sighted, (they thought the health insurance for them would cost them less than a raise, sorta thing) and they ended up (because they designed crappy cars) over their heads in the total compensation of their employees, when health care costs started going through the roof....

After all, it is a BARGAINING TABLE that the unions and owners/upper management sit at....and the GM management agreed or even offered, the better benefits in lieu of better pay.

 

[Care4all]

News for you- Companies run on capital. GM is not a mom and pop grocery store restructuring its debt. NOBODY but the US Government had the capital to back up GM. Of course the right wingnuts screamed "Let it fail...it will only fail anyway"

Obama stood up and saved GM

No rightwinger, President Bush is the one that had the balls to save them imho....all Obama did was work out the deal President bush had started...and made certain it came in to fruition....which was not an easy task....

yes, Obama took the flack and the rebellion of the public on this, but the deal was done, the bailout was done in terms of money set aside for them, under President Bush.

Bush committed $17B to a plan that wasn't going to work. Obama nationalized the company and screwed the bondholders to give the UAW a gift at a cost of another $33B. But go ahead and blame Bush now that this is all turning out to be another Marxist scam.

Can you be more specific on how the Bond holders were "screwed" by Obama?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No rightwinger, President Bush is the one that had the balls to save them imho....all Obama did was work out the deal President bush had started...and made certain it came in to fruition....which was not an easy task....

yes, Obama took the flack and the rebellion of the public on this, but the deal was done, the bailout was done in terms of money set aside for them, under President Bush.

Bush committed $17B to a plan that wasn't going to work. Obama nationalized the company and screwed the bondholders to give the UAW a gift at a cost of another $33B. But go ahead and blame Bush now that this is all turning out to be another Marxist scam.

Can you be more specific on how the Bond holders were "screwed" by Obama?

Seriously? You have no idea that the bond holders have a priority lien over equity and the unions?

Edit: Oops, I meant had a priority not have, they got butt fucked by Obama

 

[Care4all]

Bush committed $17B to a plan that wasn't going to work. Obama nationalized the company and screwed the bondholders to give the UAW a gift at a cost of another $33B. But go ahead and blame Bush now that this is all turning out to be another Marxist scam.

Can you be more specific on how the Bond holders were "screwed" by Obama?

Seriously? You have no idea that the bond holders have a priority lien over equity and the unions?

Edit: Oops, I meant had a priority not have, they got butt fucked by Obama

If Gm was allowed to go belly up, chapter 7....I believe, do you think they would have made out better in the long run?

I'm not certain that they would have made out better....can you prove or show some data that could show that they would have....?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can you be more specific on how the Bond holders were "screwed" by Obama?

Seriously? You have no idea that the bond holders have a priority lien over equity and the unions?

Edit: Oops, I meant had a priority not have, they got butt fucked by Obama

If Gm was allowed to go belly up, chapter 7....I believe, do you think they would have made out better in the long run?

I'm not certain that they would have made out better....can you prove or show some data that could show that they would have....?

The bond holders could only have made out better, they had no where to go but up from the beating they took from Obama and the UAW.

 

[Care4all]

Seriously? You have no idea that the bond holders have a priority lien over equity and the unions?

Edit: Oops, I meant had a priority not have, they got butt fucked by Obama

If Gm was allowed to go belly up, chapter 7....I believe, do you think they would have made out better in the long run?

I'm not certain that they would have made out better....can you prove or show some data that could show that they would have....?

The bond holders could only have made out better, they had no where to go but up from the beating they took from Obama and the UAW.

I disagree with your speculation.