Zone1 Giving up the search for God

[Leo123]

One of my most heart-felt Bible verses is where Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have not seen, but believe." Some things are overpowering--it is a blessing simply to believe.

Jesus also said, "Seek and you shall find." While this is true, I can relate to your thought of those seeking never finding. People look in the wrong place with wrong expectations. That brings us back to believing without having to see. A blessing.

God is a personal belief. One cannot teach that but only mirror that in their own actions. Belief is, IMO, an integral part of human existence.

 

[Leo123]

What an odd series of questions. The human quest for answers about the universe and our place in it has been a defining characteristic of the species. The attitude of the religious is, at times, to throw their hands in the air and announce, ''we'll never know'', ''its blasphemous to ask'', ''gods ways are not our ways', etc.

Are you afraid to seek truth and facts, to explore and discover? If the existence of the laws of nature point you to gods, then to you there are gods. But that does not equal evidence. The existence of "natural laws" (human descriptions of natural phenomena) do not point to any gods.

God exists in belief. Science exists in proof of belief. I think you may be confusing the two. For example: For many years atoms were believed to exist but never seen. That did not stop the believers from seeking proof. Today we can actually image atoms. Will that ever happen with God? I don't know but seeking and feeling God should not be discounted.

 

[Meriweather]

Why should I, or anyone else, accept that?

Hollie, this thread is not for you. You do not want to believe or seek. Your role is cynical skepticism. I have no wish to change that.

This thread is for those who wonder if it is true if one seeks, one finds. That is true. It can take years--even more than a decade. The search is kind of like an ever growing maze with any number of dead ends. It requires wholeheartedness and unending determination. And afterwards you understand why. We are meant to live within the parameters of this life, not the next. It is why this life is given to us and faith is all that is needed here. More makes it too difficult.

So live a good, fulfilling life. You'll do fine.

 

[Meriweather]

What an odd series of questions.

I notice you did not answer any of them.

Are you afraid to seek truth and facts, to explore and discover?

Nope and it's not what I asked. I wanted to know why you wanted the answers, what you would do with these answers, and how they would change your life.

 

[Hollie]

God exists in belief. Science exists in proof. I think you may be confusing the two.

Nothing is science is "proven," even fundamental forces such as gravity and light are not proven. "Proof" only exists in logic and mathematics; what science has is evidence. When looked at in its entirety, the scientific evidence is completely one-sided - it points overwhelmingly to an ancient planet and natural, evolutionary processes as the best explanation for our origin, not supernatural creation.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you afraid to seek truth and facts, to explore and discover? If the existence of the laws of nature point you to gods, then to you there are gods. But that does not equal evidence. The existence of "natural laws" (human descriptions of natural phenomena) do not point to any gods.

Another yawn. You are a fine one to talk to me about being afraid to seek the truth and facts. I study and explore both science and theology. Have for years.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie, this thread is not for you. You do not want to believe or seek. Your role is cynical skepticism. I have no wish to change that.

This thread is for those who wonder if it is true if one seeks, one finds. That is true. It can take years--even more than a decade. The search is kind of like an ever growing maze with any number of dead ends. It requires wholeheartedness and unending determination. And afterwards you understand why. We are meant to live within the parameters of this life, not the next. It is why this life is given to us and faith is all that is needed here. More makes it too difficult.

So live a good, fulfilling life. You'll do fine.

Well, thanks. You have decided that those not wanting to believe your religious dogma, (not accepting the hard sell proselytizing and your not winning a convert), means I should disappear.

Why would I, or anyone else need ''wholeheartedness and unending determination'' to want to believe? I would have thought that someone making rational choices by examining the available evidence should be able to make their own choices. Not in your world, apparently.

 

[Leo123]

Nothing is science is "proven," even fundamental forces such as gravity and light are not proven. "Proof" only exists in logic and mathematics; what science has is evidence. When looked at in its entirety, the scientific evidence is completely one-sided - it points overwhelmingly to an ancient planet and natural, evolutionary processes as the best explanation for our origin, not supernatural creation.

In science, a hypothesis is given then, research may turn it into a theory then, further experimentation may provide proof of theory.

 

[Leo123]

Well, thanks. You have decided that those not wanting to believe your religious dogma, (not accepting the hard sell proselytizing and your not winning a convert), means I should disappear.

Why would I, or anyone else need ''wholeheartedness and unending determination'' to want to believe? I would have thought that someone making rational choices by examining the available evidence should be able to make their own choices. Not in your world, apparently.

Oh geez........No one here is wanting you to believe in anything. Chill out.

 

[Hollie]

Another yawn. You are a fine one to talk to me about being afraid to seek the truth and facts. I study and explore both science and theology. Have for years.

I am a fine one. Not everyone is required to believe as you do. People aren't terrible because they make choices based upon rational, considered analysis.

 

[Hollie]

In science, a hypothesis is given then, research may turn it into a theory than, further experimentation may provide proof of theory.

Not proof of the theory because theories don't suggest proof. New evidence / data can change the general form of the theory such as Einstein's theory of gravitation within general relativity replaced Newton's in this century.

 

[Hollie]

I notice you did not answer any of them.


Nope and it's not what I asked. I wanted to know why you wanted the answers, what you would do with these answers, and how they would change your life.

Answers are good to have. When we know that bacteria can cause infection, we can cure that infection with antibiotics instead of rattling bones or prayer.

If we have the answer to rotation of planets and how gravity affects objects in space we don't have any need to burn astronomers at the stake as sorcerers for predicting a solar or lunar eclipse.

 

[Leo123]

Not proof of the theory because theories don't suggest proof. New evidence / data can change the general form of the theory such as Einstein's theory of gravitation within general relativity replaced Newton's in this century.

Semantics. In any case, belief does not require proof. But I think you already knew that.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, thanks. You have decided that those not wanting to believe your religious dogma, (not accepting the hard sell proselytizing and your not winning a convert), means I should disappear.

No. It means I accept atheism and people who have no wish to believe. Perhaps you have forgotten there have always been atheists in my family. Spending time on God isn't on their to do list. And converting others is not on my to do list. You are not about to be my first, so if you are hoping to be converted you are out of luck if you are hoping I will make an exception for you.

You are determined not to believe in God. As far as I am concerned you tell me why you will never believe in God and I share why I do believe. That is all there is between us. Period.

 

[Meriweather]

Why would I, or anyone else need ''wholeheartedness and unending determination'' to want to believe?

Not what I said. Wholeheartedness and determination is for those who wish to seek and find.

 

[Meriweather]

Not everyone is required to believe as you do.

You were paying attention! I have said exactly that many times over the years, too. Glad if it is finally sinking in with you.

 

[Hollie]

Semantics. In any case, belief does not require proof. But I think you already knew that.

Of course. Belief is absent evidence.

 

[Hollie]

No. It means I accept atheism and people who have no wish to believe. Perhaps you have forgotten there have always been atheists in my family. Spending time on God isn't on their to do list. And converting others is not on my to do list. You are not about to be my first, so if you are hoping to be converted you are out of luck if you are hoping I will make an exception for you.

You are determined not to believe in God. As far as I am concerned you tell me why you will never believe in God and I share why I do believe. That is all there is between us. Period.

You seem determined to require I believe as you do. That's a shame. I have no knowledge about your family and have no interest in your family situation

I have no determination not to believe. I just have a determination to follow a path guided by reason and rationality.

Don't take it personally that I didn't convert.

 

[Hollie]

Not what I said. Wholeheartedness and determination is for those who wish to seek and find.

You're free to be as wholehearted and determined to seek and find any and all Gods

Did someone tell you otherwise?

 

[Leo123]

Of course. Belief is absent evidence.

Yes, belief is what you have BEFORE scientific investigation. There are many scientists that believe in God but still are able to be objective in their scientific investigations. A wise scientist knows that they will NEVER have all the facts in the Universe.