Give me a good reason why James "Joker" Holmes should have a gun?

[Nosmo King]

You keep making ridiculous leaps. "Assuring the insane can get a gun right now" is not, has not, and will never be important for anyone. However, assuring that a law-abiding citizen can purchase a firearm is. Big difference. Perhaps if you stop writing/thinking in such inflammatory tones you will be able to see the other side.

Given that, are you opposed to a seven day waiting period and thorough background checks? Or does the freedom of someone who absolutely needs that gun today outweigh public safety?

 

[martybegan]

So assuring the insane can get a gun right now is the most important part of the issue?!? Any restriction of access to deadly weaponry on the behalf of the insane makes for a constitutional crisis?

But, meanwhile, it is recognized that shouting "FIRE!" in a theater causes a public safety hazard. Yet arming the insane is not only a constitutional mandate, but absolutely necessary to maintain freedom and liberty! In spite of the threat to freedom and liberty faced by the victims of the insane, but constitutionally protected madman.

I guess we should really reconsider the effectiveness of gasoline as a fire suppressant.

The purpose is to make sure any attempt to prevent someone crazy from getting a gun cannot be used to stop ME from getting a gun because you or the government don't want me to have a gun "just because." Quite frankly we do not trust gun control people to stop at disarming people with mental issues because we KNOW what you want is to really disarm the rest of us. Its like taking steak cooking lessons from someone in PETA.

You are engaing in hyperbole, because you know your true goal isnt to just disarm nutters, but to disarm everyone else.

I guess when the logic in your argument gets punctured the thing to do is re-establish the goal posts. Throw out some paranoia about "gun control people" and their alleged 'agenda' and then rhetorically retrench and wait for the worst.

Mighty poor tactics if your opponent has already nullified your argument!

The only logic in this debate is coming from my side, not yours. Your positions are based on emotion and fear. Your responses do not respond to my statements because you know you HAVE no response to my statements.

Finally you know I am right about the gun control argument in general. Crazies are the "low hanging fruit" you reach for on your path to total civilian disarmament.

 

[martybegan]

You keep making ridiculous leaps. "Assuring the insane can get a gun right now" is not, has not, and will never be important for anyone. However, assuring that a law-abiding citizen can purchase a firearm is. Big difference. Perhaps if you stop writing/thinking in such inflammatory tones you will be able to see the other side.

Given that, are you opposed to a seven day waiting period and thorough background checks? Or does the freedom of someone who absolutely needs that gun today outweigh public safety?

Again, show where a waiting period would have prevented any of these mass shootings.

 

[Nosmo King]

You keep making ridiculous leaps. "Assuring the insane can get a gun right now" is not, has not, and will never be important for anyone. However, assuring that a law-abiding citizen can purchase a firearm is. Big difference. Perhaps if you stop writing/thinking in such inflammatory tones you will be able to see the other side.

Given that, are you opposed to a seven day waiting period and thorough background checks? Or does the freedom of someone who absolutely needs that gun today outweigh public safety?

Again, show where a waiting period would have prevented any of these mass shootings.

If the insane are the 'low hanging fruit' of my argument, 'mass shootings' take that role in yours. Someone comes into a gun store/gun show and absolutely positively NEEDS that gun RIGHT NOW and you couldn't deign to suspect some problem in the making? Are all gun deaths a result of mass shootings, or are you willing to accept a plague of gun violence on our streets as nothing more than the cost of your 'freedom' to buy a gun with no background checks at all?

 

[hjmick]

Jesus Christ, not this shit again...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Jesus Christ, not this shit again...

yes it's this shit again.

 

[martybegan]

Given that, are you opposed to a seven day waiting period and thorough background checks? Or does the freedom of someone who absolutely needs that gun today outweigh public safety?

Again, show where a waiting period would have prevented any of these mass shootings.

If the insane are the 'low hanging fruit' of my argument, 'mass shootings' take that role in yours. Someone comes into a gun store/gun show and absolutely positively NEEDS that gun RIGHT NOW and you couldn't deign to suspect some problem in the making? Are all gun deaths a result of mass shootings, or are you willing to accept a plague of gun violence on our streets as nothing more than the cost of your 'freedom' to buy a gun with no background checks at all?

So you have no coherent answer as to how a 7 day waiting period would prevent these tragedys, and thus respond to emotion. Thanks for making my point for me, again.

And where have I argued against background checks?

If I have a reason to need a gun RIGHT NOW and that reason is legal and valid, it is none of yours, and none of the government's buisness, as long as I meet the basic requirements for gun ownership.

 

[martybegan]

Jesus Christ, not this shit again...

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Given that, are you opposed to a seven day waiting period and thorough background checks? Or does the freedom of someone who absolutely needs that gun today outweigh public safety?

Again, show where a waiting period would have prevented any of these mass shootings.

If the insane are the 'low hanging fruit' of my argument, 'mass shootings' take that role in yours. Someone comes into a gun store/gun show and absolutely positively NEEDS that gun RIGHT NOW and you couldn't deign to suspect some problem in the making? Are all gun deaths a result of mass shootings, or are you willing to accept a plague of gun violence on our streets as nothing more than the cost of your 'freedom' to buy a gun with no background checks at all?

I am not opposed to "thorough background checks"....we already have them in place. Of course, no matter how "thorough", there will always be flaws in any system.

Again, I will type this slowly so you can read it.

We already have background checks !!

I have urgently bought a gun before. Twice. The first time I found a gun shop that was having a terrific sale on Glock 40' with tritium sites (and those big scary 13 round mags), and the sale was ending that day. The second time was when I was taking a new person deer hunting for the first time and needed to buy an extra rifle that day. Waiting periods are stupid and don't work. We have huge computer networks. The ATF should do their jobs and have a list of prohibited persons on the cloud where gun store owners can immediately access and check.

Your reference to a "plague of gun violence on the streets" is, again, ridiculous. Most street gun violence is done by criminals with illegally attained weapons. NO GUN LAW YOU COULD EVER DREAM UP (short of complete banning of all weapons by anyone) will solve this problem simply because these people operate completely outside the law.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Again, show where a waiting period would have prevented any of these mass shootings.

If the insane are the 'low hanging fruit' of my argument, 'mass shootings' take that role in yours. Someone comes into a gun store/gun show and absolutely positively NEEDS that gun RIGHT NOW and you couldn't deign to suspect some problem in the making? Are all gun deaths a result of mass shootings, or are you willing to accept a plague of gun violence on our streets as nothing more than the cost of your 'freedom' to buy a gun with no background checks at all?

I am not opposed to "thorough background checks"....we already have them in place. Of course, no matter how "thorough", there will always be flaws in any system.

Again, I will type this slowly so you can read it.

We already have background checks !!

I have urgently bought a gun before. Twice. The first time I found a gun shop that was having a terrific sale on Glock 40' with tritium sites (and those big scary 13 round mags), and the sale was ending that day. The second time was when I was taking a new person deer hunting for the first time and needed to buy an extra rifle that day. Waiting periods are stupid and don't work. We have huge computer networks. The ATF should do their jobs and have a list of prohibited persons on the cloud where gun store owners can immediately access and check.

Your reference to a "plague of gun violence on the streets" is, again, ridiculous. Most street gun violence is done by criminals with illegally attained weapons. NO GUN LAW YOU COULD EVER DREAM UP (short of complete banning of all weapons by anyone) will solve this problem simply because these people operate completely outside the law.

Here in Texas there is no waiting period.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Here in Texas there is no waiting period.

I think only a few states have them, but not really sure if any do. But waiting periods are one of the barriers that liberals are constantly trying to put in place.

 

[High_Gravity]

Okay, throwdown time, Gun Whacks.

James "Joker Holmes. Crazy as batshit. Was able to buy and AR-15 and a drum magazine that held up to 100 rounds.

Everyone in his life knew he was batshit crazy.

Why should this person have the freedom to buy a gun.

No distractions about "founding fathers" or "he would have just gotten one illegally".

Please explain why THIS GUY should be allowed to buy a gun.

He shouldn't have been allowed to.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

He shouldn't have been allowed to.

Based upon why? Why should he have lost his RIGHTS before he committed a crime?

Hindsight is great. Too bad it only comes after the event.

 

[Katzndogz]

If it were not for the ACLU changing the law to prevent locking up those who are criminally insane Holmes would have been locked up.

Clean the streets, sweep up all the insane, and put them in mental facilities. Then there's no problem. Is the left going to go for that?

Could you please cite the chapter in Mein Kampf where this policy is outlined? Are you willing to repress the rights of others just so the killing can continue?

That was the argument of the ACLU! See how it works. We cannot repress the rights of the insane to be insane. They cannot be locked up against their will. They can't be medicated against their will. Now you see exactly how it works. If the criminally insane do not have the right to be criminally insane, no one has rights.

It's all about the equality.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Here in Texas there is no waiting period.

I think only a few states have them, but not really sure if any do. But waiting periods are one of the barriers that liberals are constantly trying to put in place.

Liberals hate freedom.

 

[High_Gravity]

He shouldn't have been allowed to.

Based upon why? Why should he have lost his RIGHTS before he committed a crime?

Hindsight is great. Too bad it only comes after the event.

Didn't have a mental health history before he purchased the gun?

 

[martybegan]

If it were not for the ACLU changing the law to prevent locking up those who are criminally insane Holmes would have been locked up.

Clean the streets, sweep up all the insane, and put them in mental facilities. Then there's no problem. Is the left going to go for that?

Could you please cite the chapter in Mein Kampf where this policy is outlined? Are you willing to repress the rights of others just so the killing can continue?

That was the argument of the ACLU! See how it works. We cannot repress the rights of the insane to be insane. They cannot be locked up against their will. They can't be medicated against their will. Now you see exactly how it works. If the criminally insane do not have the right to be criminally insane, no one has rights.

It's all about the equality.

If someone is a threat to themselves, they should be brought in front of a judge and adjudicated under law that they are a threat to themselves and others. they would then be committed until they are no longer a threat to themselves or others. Due process should be followed, something lacking in Nazi Germany.

Also -50 internet points to Nosmo for violating godwins law.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Didn't have a mental health history before he purchased the gun?

I don't know. But having "a mental health history" does not preclude gun ownership, nor should it.

"A mental health history" includes the parent who suffered episodic depression after losing a child.

"A mental health history" includes the woman who suffers PTSD from a rape.

"A mental health history" includes a huge percentage of today's children who have been diagnosed with ADHD.

To lose your RIGHTS you must undergo due process, which in this case would include adjudication of mental incompetence. While that is not a perfect standard, it is a good standard, especially since a perfect standard does not exist.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Equal protection under the law should only apply to people of which we approve.

Orwell was right.

 

[Missourian]

So rather than deny the insane, the gun lovers simply rationalize that freedom to bear arms extends to everyone regardless of public safety concerns. They must therefore believe that shooting sprees and gun deaths are nothing more than the price society must pay to maintain their freedom to own weapons suited for military use, not sport or defense.

Should all Americans agree with this stilted logic, or can common sense and public safety hold any priority at all?

What is your solution?

Owning a firearm is a Constitutionally protected right.

A right may not be denied without due process.

Abridgement of the Second Amendment should be subject to the same Prior Restraint restrictions guaranteed the First Amendment.

So how do you weed out the uncommitted dangerous or violent insane without infringing on the Constitutional right?

AND would this solution only serve to dissuade citizens who suffer from depression or the like from seeking ANY treatment, for fear of losing their right to self defense?