Getting Emergency Care is Insane

[freyasman]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Guy needs some better imaginary friends.

 

[Flopper]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed. Then as we see crime decreasing we decrease policing.

If we hadn't spent 50 years destroying the family unit, failing to educate our children in favor of indoctrinating them, and discouraging and disparaging religion, then we wouldn't need cops or mental health services much at all.



But here we are.

And it is from here we hope to build a better world.

 

[freyasman]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed. Then as we see crime decreasing we decrease policing.

If we hadn't spent 50 years destroying the family unit, failing to educate our children in favor of indoctrinating them, and discouraging and disparaging religion, then we wouldn't need cops or mental health services much at all.



But here we are.

And it is from here we hope to build a better world.

I'm working on it.

I sure wish I didn't have to keep stopping to shoot some dumbass though.
It's a timesuck.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

With respect, this exactly describes mental health in America today. I started in the field in the late 80's. Services at that time were very good. Today they suck. Cops and ER's are the mental health system today. Cops have zero mental health training so clearly that won't work.

ER 's are medical people. They generally hate dealing with mental health patients. I worked in an big city ER for 8 years. I did all the mental health and substance abuse evaluations. I would admit to the hospital if needed or link up patients to outpatient services of appropriate.

If you have a family member with mental health issues and take them to an ER they will generally get poor care unless the ER has psychiatric staff working there. Most do not. LCSW's, LPC 's, LCP, or M.D. Psychiatrist should do any mental health evaluation. All have post graduate degrees and are specifically trained in mental health. RN's and M.D.'s are not trained in mental health and generally have no idea what they are doing.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

I agree with you.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

I agree with you.

Freeing up cops to do the job they are trained for would save money for the cops, and that saved money could be diverted to pay for the mental health professionals, right?

 

[Flopper]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

With respect, this exactly describes mental health in America today. I started in the field in the late 80's. Services at that time were very good. Today they suck. Cops and ER's are the mental health system today. Cops have zero mental health training so clearly that won't work.

ER 's are medical people. They generally hate dealing with mental health patients. I worked in an big city ER for 8 years. I did all the mental health and substance abuse evaluations. I would admit to the hospital if needed or link up patients to outpatient services of appropriate.

If you have a family member with mental health issues and take them to an ER they will generally get poor care unless the ER has psychiatric staff working there. Most do not. LCSW's, LPC 's, LCP, or M.D. Psychiatrist should do any mental health evaluation. All have post graduate degrees and are specifically trained in mental health. RN's and M.D.'s are not trained in mental health and generally have no idea what they are doing.

The knowledge so many people have in this country about mental health is not even close to reality. Unfortunately, real mental healthcare is for the privileged.

I have a friend who lives in Spokane. After nearly a year of caring for his wife at home, weekly visits to a psychiatrist, counselors, and one medication after another, she had become a walking zombie due to the medications but with no real improvement. They decided on longer term and more intensive care was needed. After much looking, they found a place in New England that they liked that had an opening. It had daily structured group sessions alternating with sessions with a psychiatrist. After a month she showed some improvement, so they decided go for another month which became two more month. She left the hospital a lot better than she entered but she still needed. The cost was about $135 thousand a month plus extras or a total just short of half million. They sold the family home and their summer camp and went 150 thousand in debt. They now live in a two bedroom apt which is cramped with 2 adults and 2 kids. The wife is functioning but still needs almost constant monitoring by her husband and the kids. She has weekly sessions with a mental health counselor and a session with her psychiatrist monthly.

I think the above case is a rarity. There are just not many people that can raise that kind of money and have the intestinal fortitude to deal with this kind of problem. Someday, enough people will learn that mental healthcare is just as important as physical healthcare. It not only can heal the person but it can heal society and that would change everything.

 

[Flopper]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

The police I have known are dedicated and very sensitive to the plight of the mentally ill. Typically, they just take them to an ER. However, if they've broken law, things get complicated.

 

[Flopper]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

Of course it is frustrating for them, especially since that is part of the job that they have no training or education for. Imagine how much money and stress could be saved by the cops if trained mental health practitioners could deal with those people. Th added bonus would be fewer incidents of excessive use of force. Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

[fncceo]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

Of course it is frustrating for them, especially since that is part of the job that they have no training or education for. Imagine how much money and stress could be saved by the cops if trained mental health practitioners could deal with those people. Th added bonus would be fewer incidents of excessive use of force. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Actually, many police department have trained health care workers assigned to a police unit (where the police provide security for the mental health clinician). Their task is to attend calls that are assumed to be mental health related and make a judgement as to whether a not the subject of the call should be referred for further treatment. It's a very busy shift as they tend to work a larger area than a regular unit.

Anyone who threatens to harm himself (or someone else) automatically goes to hospital for further assessment. But, in other cases, it's the job of the clinician to say what follow on, if any, takes place.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

Of course it is frustrating for them, especially since that is part of the job that they have no training or education for. Imagine how much money and stress could be saved by the cops if trained mental health practitioners could deal with those people. Th added bonus would be fewer incidents of excessive use of force. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Actually, many police department have trained health care workers assigned to a police unit (where the police provide security for the mental health clinician). Their task is to attend calls that are assumed to be mental health related and make a judgement as to whether a not the subject of the call should be referred for further treatment. It's a very busy shift as they tend to work a larger area than a regular unit.

Anyone who threatens to harm himself (or someone else) automatically goes to hospital for further assessment. But, in other cases, it's the job of the clinician to say what follow on, if any, takes place.

Sounds like a great idea. I don't think it is very widespread though.

 

[Flopper]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

I agree with you.

Freeing up cops to do the job they are trained for would save money for the cops, and that saved money could be diverted to pay for the mental health professionals, right?

Not sure were the sayings are. 70% of the cops patrol the streets. The rest are management, detectives, crime scene investigators, & resource officers. In Seattle, patrol staffing now is chronically low. The average squad size right now, for a patrol sector, is about half of what it was in the 1980s - when the city was much smaller. Precinct detectives are overwhelmed with cases to follow up on. Misdemeanor thefts typically get little follow up if at all. due primarily to the time required to gather evidence. Most misdemeanor property crimes are never prosecuted. Also the number of felony property crimes being prosecuted are going down while the number of arrests are increasing due to lack of investigation. Most drug arrests are not charged. Cops do not respond to traffic accident unless there is bodily injury or traffic is blocked. Adult missing persons are not investigated unless the person is disabled.

Today the city council is meeting to consider a 50% cut in the police department budget.

 

[fncceo]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

Of course it is frustrating for them, especially since that is part of the job that they have no training or education for. Imagine how much money and stress could be saved by the cops if trained mental health practitioners could deal with those people. Th added bonus would be fewer incidents of excessive use of force. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Actually, many police department have trained health care workers assigned to a police unit (where the police provide security for the mental health clinician). Their task is to attend calls that are assumed to be mental health related and make a judgement as to whether a not the subject of the call should be referred for further treatment. It's a very busy shift as they tend to work a larger area than a regular unit.

Anyone who threatens to harm himself (or someone else) automatically goes to hospital for further assessment. But, in other cases, it's the job of the clinician to say what follow on, if any, takes place.

Sounds like a great idea. I don't think it is very widespread though.

The obvious limitation is the number of available mental health care works and the number of police units available to take away from all other emergency responses and dedicated to a single task.

If police are defunded, this would probably be one of the first non-essential tasks to be eliminated.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

I agree with you.

Freeing up cops to do the job they are trained for would save money for the cops, and that saved money could be diverted to pay for the mental health professionals, right?

Not sure were the sayings are. 70% of the cops patrol the streets. The rest are management, detectives, crime scene investigators, & resource officers. In Seattle, patrol staffing now is chronically low. The average squad size right now, for a patrol sector, is about half of what it was in the 1980s - when the city was much smaller. Precinct detectives are overwhelmed with cases to follow up on. Misdemeanor thefts typically get little follow up if at all. Due to primarily to lack of evidence few property crimes are ever prosecuted. For example, robberies where a shoplifter fought store security but didn't use a weapon, any theft, or property damage under $1000 (the limit in the law is $750) are not charged as felonies. Most property crimes reported by an individual are not investigated. Most drug arrests are not charged. Cops do not respond to traffic accident unless there is bodily injury or traffic is blocked.

Today the city council is meeting to consider a 50% cut in the police department budget.

Someone said the jails are full of people who shouldn't be there. Reducing that number would give a substantial cost savings.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

Jails are full of people that shouldn't be there because there's no other place to put them. And for that reason, many of them end up back on the streets. That is really frustrating for the police. They do their job but the system fails and too often the cops have to deal with the resulting tragedies.

Of course it is frustrating for them, especially since that is part of the job that they have no training or education for. Imagine how much money and stress could be saved by the cops if trained mental health practitioners could deal with those people. Th added bonus would be fewer incidents of excessive use of force. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Actually, many police department have trained health care workers assigned to a police unit (where the police provide security for the mental health clinician). Their task is to attend calls that are assumed to be mental health related and make a judgement as to whether a not the subject of the call should be referred for further treatment. It's a very busy shift as they tend to work a larger area than a regular unit.

Anyone who threatens to harm himself (or someone else) automatically goes to hospital for further assessment. But, in other cases, it's the job of the clinician to say what follow on, if any, takes place.

Sounds like a great idea. I don't think it is very widespread though.

The obvious limitation is the number of available mental health care works and the number of police units available to take away from all other emergency responses and dedicated to a single task.

If police are defunded, this would probably be one of the first non-essential tasks to be eliminated.

And that money would be redirected to other agencies to deal with those things. If it's not the cop's job, why would it be funded by the cops?

 

[fncceo]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Quite often that as a different outcome. The cop orders the crazy guy to do something, but the crazy guy refuses. Cop then kicks his ass an throws him in jail because he isn't being cooperative. If the crazy guy is lucky, this is the worst that happens. Many crazy guys are just killed because cops have that magic "feared for my life" excuse.

It is not quite often, but it happens. It is easy to arm chair quarterback and blame cops. Cops have a very difficult job. Try dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional and psychotic. I know how, I am trained and did it for 30 years.

Most cops are good people doing a very difficult job. Without cops, ER's, and EMT's society falls apart inside a week. The people who respond when you are dying or in full blown crisis deserve your respect. At some point they will probably save your life.

Cops aren't trained to deal with that paranoid schizophrenic fully delusional psychotic, and they shouldn't have to be. That's why we need to be able to send people that are trained to deal with them. Our jails are full of mental patients who shouldn't be there. That costs us a fortune, does nothing to solve the crazy problem, and forces cops to make life changing, or ending decisions that they are not qualified to make. Removing the responsibility of dealing with those crazies from cops shoulders would save money, and free them up to do the job they are trained for.

I agree with you.

Freeing up cops to do the job they are trained for would save money for the cops, and that saved money could be diverted to pay for the mental health professionals, right?

Not sure were the sayings are. 70% of the cops patrol the streets. The rest are management, detectives, crime scene investigators, & resource officers. In Seattle, patrol staffing now is chronically low. The average squad size right now, for a patrol sector, is about half of what it was in the 1980s - when the city was much smaller. Precinct detectives are overwhelmed with cases to follow up on. Misdemeanor thefts typically get little follow up if at all. Due to primarily to lack of evidence few property crimes are ever prosecuted. For example, robberies where a shoplifter fought store security but didn't use a weapon, any theft, or property damage under $1000 (the limit in the law is $750) are not charged as felonies. Most property crimes reported by an individual are not investigated. Most drug arrests are not charged. Cops do not respond to traffic accident unless there is bodily injury or traffic is blocked.

Today the city council is meeting to consider a 50% cut in the police department budget.

Someone said the jails are full of people who shouldn't be there. Reducing that number would give a substantial cost savings.

Everything except police holding cells doesn't come under police budgets. They are department of corrections.