Getting Emergency Care is Insane

[gipper]

What you did is exactly what I think should be done and should be expanded. This is the part of defunding the police I believe needs to happen but with more social workers and mental health professional. I think we should reduce the number of police gradually and certainly not reduce the numbers by 50%.

Saw a study of the homeless in Seattle and several other cities. One of things that stood out was number that that were seriously mentally ill with disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, something like 39% of the chronic homeless. A year or so ago, there was a special focusing on mental illness on TV. An ex-con out of the Washington State penitentiary was interviewed. He said about 1 out every 4 convicts were psychos, hallucination, memory lost, etc. A lot of them didn't know or couldn't remember exactly what crime they were imprisoned for.

Why do we have to defund the police to hire more social workers? We have millions of social workers right now. What are they doing? Maybe we should 'defund' social services and "re-imagine" that instead.

Cops are not trained in mental health. They are trained in law enforcement. They have no idea how to intervene with mentally ill people. As a consequence the mental ill are either ignored, incarcerated, mistreated or killed.

Cops want support in dealing with the mentally ill. The funding no longer exists in most States so cops are left to deal with a huge number of mentally ill (maybe 25% of the people they encounter) with zero training or support.

I like and respect cops. I have worked closely with them for decades. Cops should not have to be the front line in dealing with America's seriously mentally ill. It is not fair to the cops, it is not fair to the mentally ill, and it is bad for this Country.

Couldn't agree more. However, let add this.
I'm really not sure how the police and a force of trained social welfare/metal health workers would work together when dealing with violent criminals.

Something is amiss for sure.

I have a family member who works in the ER of a large hospital, in one of Florida’s largest cities. He said it’s a zoo. Hallways are full of patients on gurneys, as the hospital has no open rooms. Staff are overworked and many do not have proper protection. Many staff have quit and he’s considering it too.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In Washington state which is not one of the worst covid states, major hospital ERs are swamped with patients. I took my brother to an ER and we had to wait 3 hours in an ER waiting room. After another 2 hours, he was put in a spare room with 3 other patients, one was psychotic and was strapped to a gurney. The nurse said it would be at least two hours before he saw a doctor. I asked for some medication to relieve pain which didn't happen and after an hour I took him to a friends house in Seattle and called 911. The EMS took him to Harbor View, one of the largest hospitals and a regional trauma which was a wise decision because there was a line at the door of the ER waiting room just waiting to get in. After a fairly short wait, he saw a doctor who ordered tests, medications, and admitted him to the hospital. However, he's on a gurney outside the ER waiting for a room. The nurse said there are no rooms available and it may be hours before he has a room.

Keep in mind this is not a Covid hot spot. I can't imagine what it must be like in hospitals in places like Miami.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but there has got to be a lot of people that are dying and suffering due to Covid 19 that don't have it simply because they can't get emergency care, medical equipment, and supplies when they need it.

Starr County Memorial Hospital, in Texas is currently using a Death Panel, (they call it an "ethics" and "triage" committee) to determine which covid 19 patients to send home,even if they are likely to die. They just don't have the capability to serve all the patients they have.
The right finally has an example of a real Death Panel after whining about all those nonexistent ones for so many years.they

That is completely stupid.
Lenox Hill in NY has the same panel. As do many large metropolitan hospitals.
But then again, who would really expect you to be either honest or knowledgeable.

Are they sending people home to die in NY too?

Texas hasn't either. You jumped to the narrative immediately, they MAY have to.
All major hospitals heavily involved when Covid was worse were rationing care. They didn't have a choice.
You can see it in the Nextflix documentary "Lenox Hill"
A woman's husband was still alive, but extremely sick. His PH levels were climbing and they could not help him. It ends wit the doctor going to the family and telling him it is time. And they took him off life support.
My daughter is an RT in Indianapolis, she has done the same thing.
They had no choice.

Seems they only had no choice under the Trump administration. Can you give examples of that choice having to be made before Trump's presidency? A competent president wouldn't have let us fall to that position.

Are you really this stupid, or just being obtuse?
WTF is wrong with you? Trump had not a damn thing to do with what happens inside of hospitals...nothing. If you want to blame a President, then ask why didn't Obama replenish the national stockpiles after they were used during his Presidency. But obviously you would never ask that.
It is appalling to me how people can be this blinded by partisanship.
Holy Cow

 

[BULLDOG]

In Washington state which is not one of the worst covid states, major hospital ERs are swamped with patients. I took my brother to an ER and we had to wait 3 hours in an ER waiting room. After another 2 hours, he was put in a spare room with 3 other patients, one was psychotic and was strapped to a gurney. The nurse said it would be at least two hours before he saw a doctor. I asked for some medication to relieve pain which didn't happen and after an hour I took him to a friends house in Seattle and called 911. The EMS took him to Harbor View, one of the largest hospitals and a regional trauma which was a wise decision because there was a line at the door of the ER waiting room just waiting to get in. After a fairly short wait, he saw a doctor who ordered tests, medications, and admitted him to the hospital. However, he's on a gurney outside the ER waiting for a room. The nurse said there are no rooms available and it may be hours before he has a room.

Keep in mind this is not a Covid hot spot. I can't imagine what it must be like in hospitals in places like Miami.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but there has got to be a lot of people that are dying and suffering due to Covid 19 that don't have it simply because they can't get emergency care, medical equipment, and supplies when they need it.

Starr County Memorial Hospital, in Texas is currently using a Death Panel, (they call it an "ethics" and "triage" committee) to determine which covid 19 patients to send home,even if they are likely to die. They just don't have the capability to serve all the patients they have.
The right finally has an example of a real Death Panel after whining about all those nonexistent ones for so many years.they

That is completely stupid.
Lenox Hill in NY has the same panel. As do many large metropolitan hospitals.
But then again, who would really expect you to be either honest or knowledgeable.

Are they sending people home to die in NY too?

Texas hasn't either. You jumped to the narrative immediately, they MAY have to.
All major hospitals heavily involved when Covid was worse were rationing care. They didn't have a choice.
You can see it in the Nextflix documentary "Lenox Hill"
A woman's husband was still alive, but extremely sick. His PH levels were climbing and they could not help him. It ends wit the doctor going to the family and telling him it is time. And they took him off life support.
My daughter is an RT in Indianapolis, she has done the same thing.
They had no choice.

Seems they only had no choice under the Trump administration. Can you give examples of that choice having to be made before Trump's presidency? A competent president wouldn't have let us fall to that position.

Are you really this stupid, or just being obtuse?
WTF is wrong with you? Trump had not a damn thing to do with what happens inside of hospitals...nothing. If you want to blame a President, then ask why didn't Obama replenish the national stockpiles after they were used during his Presidency. But obviously you would never ask that.
It is appalling to me how people can be this blinded by partisanship.
Holy Cow

The depleted stores were noted and Trump was notified of the shortage. Why didn't he do anything about it?

 

[Leo123]

Cops are not trained in mental health. They are trained in law enforcement. They have no idea how to intervene with mentally ill people. As a consequence the mental ill are either ignored, incarcerated, mistreated or killed.

Cops want support in dealing with the mentally ill. The funding no longer exists in most States so cops are left to deal with a huge number of mentally ill (maybe 25% of the people they encounter) with zero training or support.

I like and respect cops. I have worked closely with them for decades. Cops should not have to be the front line in dealing with America's seriously mentally ill. It is not fair to the cops, it is not fair to the mentally ill, and it is bad for this Country.

Agreed, my point is that we don't need to defund or 're-imagine' law enforcement as BLM is demanding. Perhaps we can take a look at the whole mental health system and 're-imagine' that instead of defunding police. From what you wrote, seems law enforcement already works with mental health workers. We need both and maximum strength it seems today.

 

[Leo123]

Something is amiss for sure.

I have a family member who works in the ER of a large hospital, in one of Florida’s largest cities. He said it’s a zoo. Hallways are full of patients on gurneys, as the hospital has no open rooms. Staff are overworked and many do not have proper protection. Many staff have quit and he’s considering it too.

Funny, that's what they said about NY....Then Trump built a new hospital and it went un-used and 'Killer Cuomo' sent the elderly with Covid cases back to care homes instead of treating them in the new hospital. Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning the validity of your family member's claim it's just that there could be many reasons especially in the midst of this Covid virus where there is so much conflicting information it's hard to believe anything the media or politicians tell us anymore.

 

[Flopper]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

The ACLU is right, you don't jail people that are mentally, ill. You get them help. Mental illness is an illness, not a crime.

 

[Flopper]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

 

[Flopper]

In Washington state which is not one of the worst covid states, major hospital ERs are swamped with patients. I took my brother to an ER and we had to wait 3 hours in an ER waiting room. After another 2 hours, he was put in a spare room with 3 other patients, one was psychotic and was strapped to a gurney. The nurse said it would be at least two hours before he saw a doctor. I asked for some medication to relieve pain which didn't happen and after an hour I took him to a friends house in Seattle and called 911. The EMS took him to Harbor View, one of the largest hospitals and a regional trauma which was a wise decision because there was a line at the door of the ER waiting room just waiting to get in. After a fairly short wait, he saw a doctor who ordered tests, medications, and admitted him to the hospital. However, he's on a gurney outside the ER waiting for a room. The nurse said there are no rooms available and it may be hours before he has a room.

Keep in mind this is not a Covid hot spot. I can't imagine what it must be like in hospitals in places like Miami.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but there has got to be a lot of people that are dying and suffering due to Covid 19 that don't have it simply because they can't get emergency care, medical equipment, and supplies when they need it.

Starr County Memorial Hospital, in Texas is currently using a Death Panel, (they call it an "ethics" and "triage" committee) to determine which covid 19 patients to send home,even if they are likely to die. They just don't have the capability to serve all the patients they have.
The right finally has an example of a real Death Panel after whining about all those nonexistent ones for so many years.they

That is completely stupid.
Lenox Hill in NY has the same panel. As do many large metropolitan hospitals.
But then again, who would really expect you to be either honest or knowledgeable.

Are they sending people home to die in NY too?

Texas hasn't either. You jumped to the narrative immediately, they MAY have to.
All major hospitals heavily involved when Covid was worse were rationing care. They didn't have a choice.
You can see it in the Nextflix documentary "Lenox Hill"
A woman's husband was still alive, but extremely sick. His PH levels were climbing and they could not help him. It ends wit the doctor going to the family and telling him it is time. And they took him off life support.
My daughter is an RT in Indianapolis, she has done the same thing.
They had no choice.

Seems they only had no choice under the Trump administration. Can you give examples of that choice having to be made before Trump's presidency? A competent president wouldn't have let us fall to that position.

Are you really this stupid, or just being obtuse?
WTF is wrong with you? Trump had not a damn thing to do with what happens inside of hospitals...nothing. If you want to blame a President, then ask why didn't Obama replenish the national stockpiles after they were used during his Presidency. But obviously you would never ask that.
It is appalling to me how people can be this blinded by partisanship.
Holy Cow

The depleted stores were noted and Trump was notified of the shortage. Why didn't he do anything about it?

Because it wasn't needed to treat the flu, and a democrat hoax

 

[Flopper]

What you did is exactly what I think should be done and should be expanded. This is the part of defunding the police I believe needs to happen but with more social workers and mental health professional. I think we should reduce the number of police gradually and certainly not reduce the numbers by 50%.

Saw a study of the homeless in Seattle and several other cities. One of things that stood out was number that that were seriously mentally ill with disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, something like 39% of the chronic homeless. A year or so ago, there was a special focusing on mental illness on TV. An ex-con out of the Washington State penitentiary was interviewed. He said about 1 out every 4 convicts were psychos, hallucination, memory lost, etc. A lot of them didn't know or couldn't remember exactly what crime they were imprisoned for.

Why do we have to defund the police to hire more social workers? We have millions of social workers right now. What are they doing? Maybe we should 'defund' social services and "re-imagine" that instead.

Cops are not trained in mental health. They are trained in law enforcement. They have no idea how to intervene with mentally ill people. As a consequence the mental ill are either ignored, incarcerated, mistreated or killed.

Cops want support in dealing with the mentally ill. The funding no longer exists in most States so cops are left to deal with a huge number of mentally ill (maybe 25% of the people they encounter) with zero training or support.

I like and respect cops. I have worked closely with them for decades. Cops should not have to be the front line in dealing with America's seriously mentally ill. It is not fair to the cops, it is not fair to the mentally ill, and it is bad for this Country.

Couldn't agree more. However, let add this.
I'm really not sure how the police and a force of trained social welfare/metal health workers would work together when dealing with violent criminals.

Something is amiss for sure.

I have a family member who works in the ER of a large hospital, in one of Florida’s largest cities. He said it’s a zoo. Hallways are full of patients on gurneys, as the hospital has no open rooms. Staff are overworked and many do not have proper protection. Many staff have quit and he’s considering it too.

Many hospital ER's have changed, less seats in the waiting, separation of positive covid patients, dedicated exam rooms for covid, extra sanitizing, etc, all of which slows the whole process. Some ER's restrict areas to patients only. I suspect quite few people are dying due to covid 19 even thou they don't have it because they are not getting the normal healthcare they need.

 

[WelfareQueen]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

 

[Flopper]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed. Then as we see crime decreasing we decrease policing.

 

[Leo123]

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

Democrats are too busy funding programs that promote mental illness. We see it every day now in our streets.

 

[fncceo]

Which word in "Emergency Room" is confusing?

Is it "Room"?

 

[fncceo]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

 

[WelfareQueen]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed. Then as we see crime decreasing we decrease policing.

Police are law enforcement. It is pretty simple. They are the only ones trained and equipped to deal with law enforcement matters.

Social Workers should not be responding to bank robberies and home invasions.

But mental health and substance abuse, child abuse and prevention, follow up with domestic violence.... Those are not jobs for police. Society has many ills. Right now cops and ER's are the bottom of the drain. They are dealing with just about everything and they are not equipped and prepared to do so.

You need to take Society's ills as seriously as law enforcement. That is not happening and it should. There is a strong need for professionals that are trained and funding to deal with all of these non law enforcement issues that are often ignored or shoved off on police or ER's.

 

[freyasman]

That's really just the visibly homeless. Many people are homeless but are doing a good job of hiding it, working a regular job, showering at the gym or the truck stop, living in their cars, etc.
The ones you see are the MICAs; mentally ill, chemically altered/addicted.

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

I am very sorry for both your granddaughter and your family. Most States have drastically cut funding for mental health services. I started my career doing mental health emergency services in Richmond Virginia. The mental health system in Virginia was great at the time. When police would encounter someone who was dealing with mental illness and potentially a danger to self or others we would get called. I would go out and evaluate the person with the police present. If the person met critieria they would get admitted, stabilized, and linked up with outpatient services before they were released. Those days are virtually gone pretty much everywhere in the United States. It is tragic.

Schizophrenia is a terrible illness in that it hits most people in late adolescence or early adulthood. The child the parents and grandparents know and love changes almost overnight, and often times the changes are severe. For many family members there is a grieving process. I always felt tremendous compassion for the families and what they were going through.

I sincerely hope your granddaughter gets appropriate services that she needs. No one asks for mental illness. They deserve as much care and respect as anyone dealing with a serious illness.

What you did is exactly what I think should be done and should be expanded. This is the part of defunding the police I believe needs to happen but with more social workers and mental health professional. I think we should reduce the number of police gradually and certainly not reduce the numbers by 50%.

Saw a study of the homeless in Seattle and several other cities. One of things that stood out was number that that were seriously mentally ill with disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, something like 39% of the chronic homeless. A year or so ago, there was a special focusing on mental illness on TV. An ex-con out of the Washington State penitentiary was interviewed. He said about 1 out every 4 convicts were psychos, hallucination, memory lost, etc. A lot of them didn't know or couldn't remember exactly what crime they were imprisoned for.

When I was in grad school I had to do a research paper on homelessness. At that time the data showed up to 95% of homeless folks were either mentally ill, or substances abusers, or a combination thereof.

Most shelters suck. Many kick the homeless out during the day. They are often unclean and not safe. Many homeless prefer being on the street.

 

[freyasman]

What you did is exactly what I think should be done and should be expanded. This is the part of defunding the police I believe needs to happen but with more social workers and mental health professional. I think we should reduce the number of police gradually and certainly not reduce the numbers by 50%.

Saw a study of the homeless in Seattle and several other cities. One of things that stood out was number that that were seriously mentally ill with disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, something like 39% of the chronic homeless. A year or so ago, there was a special focusing on mental illness on TV. An ex-con out of the Washington State penitentiary was interviewed. He said about 1 out every 4 convicts were psychos, hallucination, memory lost, etc. A lot of them didn't know or couldn't remember exactly what crime they were imprisoned for.

Why do we have to defund the police to hire more social workers? We have millions of social workers right now. What are they doing? Maybe we should 'defund' social services and "re-imagine" that instead.

Cops are not trained in mental health. They are trained in law enforcement. They have no idea how to intervene with mentally ill people. As a consequence the mental ill are either ignored, incarcerated, mistreated or killed.

Cops want support in dealing with the mentally ill. The funding no longer exists in most States so cops are left to deal with a huge number of mentally ill (maybe 25% of the people they encounter) with zero training or support.

I like and respect cops. I have worked closely with them for decades. Cops should not have to be the front line in dealing with America's seriously mentally ill. It is not fair to the cops, it is not fair to the mentally ill, and it is bad for this Country.

Police departments don't hire people who have had drug problems, who have been arrested multiple times, who dropped out of school, and who have had mental health issues. They don't hire very many people who come from families and environments where those things happen.
The people they do hire, almost never have any life experience dealing with dysfunctional people like that and they don't understand anything about it.

 

[freyasman]

You didn't mention what was the first hospital

No, I didn't because our family has gone there for years and we have had excellent care. I believe this problem is due to the crazy shit that is going on now. ER's are slammed most everywhere.

Covid 19 and resulting problems such as unemployment, closed businesses and schools leaves people with a lot time on their hands and a lot of worries and that always leads to mental stress and a of lot people breakdown. The nurse at the ER said they are being flooded with mental patients. Their psych ward is filled as are all the nearby hospitals. So these patients are in the ER for extended periods simply because there is no place to transfer them. They call the police to take the ones they believe are dangerous to themselves or others. The police just dump them in another ER that doesn't have room. For those that don't seem to be a danger to others, they try to find a caregiver to take them. If they can't they show them the door and the community has another problem to deal with.

I did mental health exams in a big city ER for years. I am an LCSW. What you stated is spot on. That is likely the issue, not Covid directly.

I have a granddaughter that is Schizophrenic. She is psychotic about half the time and has short term memory lost. In other words, she needs full time care but there is just no place available even if the family had money to pay for it. A cop brought her home the other night. She was wandering down street about half dressed. The cop told my son about half the people they pickup need a place to go but not jail. There is just no place to put them. Many of the families can't or won't take them. It's hard to believe that this is happening in this country and we doing nothing about it.

Complain to the ACLU. They got a court decision that it is unlawful to lock an innocent person up no matter what their mental state.

If someone is deemed to be a danger to self or others due to mental illness or substance abuse and are unable or unwilling to consent to care they can be civilly detained. That is the law is every State I am aware of. You cannot be psychotic, threatened to kill your mother because command hallucinations are telling you to do so, and the State has no legal recourse to keep the parties involved safe.

Again, that is the legal standard in Virginia and Florida. I cannot image the same standard does not exist in every State.

In states I'm familiar with that is the law. Most state legislatures are good about passing laws to protect and help the mentally ill. Unfortunately just passing law does not make it happen.

Yes, it takes funding and a commitment to truly help the the mentally ill. That commitment barely exists anymore.

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed. Then as we see crime decreasing we decrease policing.

If we hadn't spent 50 years destroying the family unit, failing to educate our children in favor of indoctrinating them, and discouraging and disparaging religion, then we wouldn't need cops or mental health services much at all.



But here we are.

 

[Flopper]

I think the right way to reduce the police is to reduce the need and that starts with providing the mental health and social welfare services that are needed.

Given that a large number of people that police deal with with on a daily basis are regular clients of both the mental health and social welfare systems ... I see a flaw in your theory.

I'm somewhat familiar with the mental health system in my area. To put it kindly, it's a joke and a bad one at that. Cop picks up man walking down the middle of the street, half dressed talking to his imaginary friend. Cop drops off man at an ER where he spends 8 or 10 hours waiting for a psychiatrist who immediately says he need to be evaluated which takes about 3 days or more in a mental faculty. Since there are no openings, he is either dump on the streets or ends up in another ER. If he's really lucky he get in a pysch ward for evaluation. So after 3 to 7 days, he's shown the door with a diagnosis and a list of psychiatrists which he will quickly lose because he's so zonked out on meds he'll be lucky to find his way home. A few days after the meds wear off, he and his imaginary friend continue on his road of discovery bouncing around from ERs, short term stays in mental wards, jails, homelessness shelters, until he get's in big trouble, kills himself, or someone else.

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

 

[fncceo]

This not the mental health system, I'm referring to.

Is there another mental health system of which I'm unaware?