General Westmoreland

[GLASNOST]

Hanoi “dismissed the assumption that the principal and primary means test of success must be military combat,” observes former State Department officer Douglas Pike, one of the most perceptive American students of the revolutionary forces in Vietnam. “They realized . . . that it might be possible to achieve a change of war venue and determine its outcome away from the battlefield.”

etc
The Genius of North Vietnam's War Strategy

Thank you. I've just read it. Now I want to see the film!

 

[GLASNOST]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

.. and not planning to win either.

 

[GLASNOST]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

We kinda knew we were not going to win

Really?

 

[danielpalos]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

We kinda knew we were not going to win

that is a form of "treason" and a justification for resistance from the left.

 

[harmonica]

A US “Victory” would have led to Viet Cong led insurgency supported by Russia and China

We would have had to remain to support the Saigon Government and would still be taking casualties

Rubbish. What do you think the VC were? They were crushed by Tet, and their own leadership says this; it was the U.S. press and left wingers that kept them at war, with bullshit stories about how we were 'losing n stuff'. And we all know who won the Cold War, and Johnson's escalation in Viet Nam went a long way in bankrupting the Khrushchev Doctrine. It had to shut down its global insurrection campaign in 1973, and the West took it to a soft landing after that. It's more than stupid to keep babbling how ' we lost n stuff', when it's immediately obvious we didn't lose a thing.

Actually, their own leadership said they would have fought indefinitely. They had been fighting nonstop for 25 years, Tet was not going to stop them.

After Tet, it became obvious ....1,2,3 what are we fighting for?
It became obvious to all that we didn’t have a plan or an exit strategy

Actually Giap said they were finished as an armed resistance movement.

like the US defeats in the Revolutionary War?
The 25 Deadliest Battles of the Revolutionary War - Journal of the American Revolution

Nope. Tet was their last gasp. After that NVA troops swarmed over the borders, against the UN mandates we were abiding by.

and the US still lost--plain and simple
Tet was just another battle--like Bunker Hill, etc

in WW2 the Russians lost 8 million [ military deaths only ] and ------------------------WON
Tet was just another battle...losses meant nothing
all proven by NV WINNING the War

 

[harmonica]

we could've even went into the North and nothing would change--they would've just:
waited us out
moved their troops

A US “Victory” would have led to Viet Cong led insurgency supported by Russia and China

We would have had to remain to support the Saigon Government and would still be taking casualties

Rubbish. What do you think the VC were? They were crushed by Tet, and their own leadership says this; it was the U.S. press and left wingers that kept them at war, with bullshit stories about how we were 'losing n stuff'. And we all know who won the Cold War, and Johnson's escalation in Viet Nam went a long way in bankrupting the Khrushchev Doctrine. It had to shut down its global insurrection campaign in 1973, and the West took it to a soft landing after that. It's more than stupid to keep babbling how ' we lost n stuff', when it's immediately obvious we didn't lose a thing.

we lost
1. the communist took over SV
2. 50,000 dead and thousands more maimed/etc

AND
the US divided
losing credibility all over the world

Who did we 'lose credibility' with? Can you name a country that abandoned their treaties with us, or any other deal, due to our 'lack of credibility', and ran to join up with the Soviets or the Chinese??? We were propping up the SU from 1973 on; what were they going to do, refuse our wheat, refined petroleum imports, and all the rest, cuz we 'lacked credibility'?

the whole world saw us as a big bully killing civilians

 

[danielpalos]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

.. and not planning to win either.

Command and control requires those options be available.

 

[harmonica]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!! 1965!!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ etc etc ] ''
he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....


FURTHER proof--here at the :50 mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

 

[danielpalos]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ et c etc ] '' he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....

FURTHER proof--and here at the 1 minute mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

...a waste of money. We could have been on Mars, by now.

 

[harmonica]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ et c etc ] '' he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....

FURTHER proof--and here at the 1 minute mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

...a waste of money. We could have been on Mars, by now.

the wasted deaths were priceless

 

[GLASNOST]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

.. and not planning to win either.

Command and control requires those options be available.

Both at the same time?

 

[GLASNOST]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ et c etc ] '' he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....

FURTHER proof--and here at the 1 minute mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

...a waste of money. We could have been on Mars, by now.

the wasted deaths were priceless

Priceless? I think you mean 'insignificant'.

 

[harmonica]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ et c etc ] '' he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....

FURTHER proof--and here at the 1 minute mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

...a waste of money. We could have been on Mars, by now.

the wasted deaths were priceless

Priceless? I think you mean 'insignificant'.

price·less
/ˈprīsləs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. so precious that its value cannot be determined.

unless I worded it wrong? lives...?

 

[danielpalos]

Walter Cronkite was also a major cause of losing the American public, and the political war in Vietnam. We won militarily, but lost in spirit. However, it did show the Russians, and Chinese we were willing to fight Communist Expansion as the Domino Theory was a reality at the time.

we lost :
SVietnam
Cambodia
Laos
Cuba
and guess what????!!!????------------------------the US survived !!!!!!!
the Domino Theory was a lie
we could NOT win in Vietnam--period .......the American public knew it
Morley Safer knew it and said it BEFORE TET!!!!!
listen--especially at the 3:31 mark
'''''today's operation is the frustration of Vietnam in miniature ....little doubt that American firepower can win a military victory......BUT [ etc etc ]'''
..it will take more than presidential promises...[ et c etc ] '' he talks about the Vietnam citizens
.....

FURTHER proof--and here at the 1 minute mark, this video talks about the NEGATIVE IMPACT of Safer's report posted above

...a waste of money. We could have been on Mars, by now.

the wasted deaths were priceless

that was the potentially, "treasonous" part and grounds for resistance from the left.

 

[danielpalos]

High command can only do what they are tasked to do.

That's true.

What were we planning to do with Vietnam?

Ask high command and they'll inform you that they were never tasked to do anything but shoot and bomb. Have you not been following this thread closely?

we were not planning to lose.

.. and not planning to win either.

Command and control requires those options be available.

Both at the same time?

yes. both at the same to "maximize" those options.

Command and control requires the initiative.

 

[GLASNOST]

price·less
/ˈprīsləs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. so precious that its value cannot be determined.

unless I worded it wrong? lives...?

The U.S. government didn't give a shit about the American death count. Under those circumstances "priceless" and "precious" make no sense. But if you disagree with my view then you worded it correctly.

 

[harmonica]

godfreaking DAMN!
the Marines landed in Nam March 1965
we had troops over there before that
Tet was Jan 1968--that's over 2.7 years with no noticeable ''advance''
....at least in WW2, after about the same amount of time, we were taking the Philippines back....we advanced a LOOOOOONG way in 2.7 years

 

[danielpalos]

price·less
/ˈprīsləs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. so precious that its value cannot be determined.

unless I worded it wrong? lives...?

The U.S. government didn't give a shit about the American death count. Under those circumstances "priceless" and "precious" make no sense. But if you disagree with my view then you worded it correctly.

just right wing fantasy at its finest. Dr. Strangelove would love it.

 

[GLASNOST]

godfreaking DAMN!
the Marines landed in Nam March 1965
we had troops over there before that
Tet was Jan 1968--that's over 2.7 years with no noticeable ''advance''
....at least in WW2, after about the same amount of time, we were taking the Philippines back....we advanced a LOOOOOONG way in 2.7 years

According to my campaign medal troops were already on the ground by 1960.

 

[GLASNOST]