Gaza Is a Concentration Camp with ongoing crimes against humanity...

[Shusha]

No, the Jews went to Palestine from Europe and dispossessed the Palestinian Christians and Muslims. The Palestinians did not dispossess anyone. Europeans are not indigenous to Palestine. Those are facts.

Get out of the Vortex. Forget about "Europeans" for just a second. (The problem with your whole "Europeans" argument is that it is just another variation of the "synthetic Jews" argument. Forget about whatever you think the synthetic Jews are. If it makes you feel better, pretend we are not talking about any synthetic Jews. Only the real ones.)

The Jewish people. The Jewish people who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity and continuously for the past three thousand years. The Jewish people who were there before the colonization and invasion of the Romans and the Arabs . The Jewish people who have three thousand years of dispossession from their indigenous territory.

They also need restitution and restoration.

 

[louie888]

The Jewish people who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity and continuously for the past three thousand years.

Shoot me a number, at least approximate, for how many people we are talking about here.

 

[Shusha]

The Jewish people who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity and continuously for the past three thousand years.

Shoot me a number, at least approximate, for how many people we are talking about here.

Why?

 

[louie888]

The Jewish people who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity and continuously for the past three thousand years.

Shoot me a number, at least approximate, for how many people we are talking about here.

Why?

I thought you would know since you made the statement. I know you are not big on proof, but I thought I'd ask.

 

[Shusha]

I thought you would know since you made the statement. I know you are not big on proof, but I thought I'd ask.

Its a fundamental issue of human rights. Why would it matter how many people?

 

[louie888]

You have not shown that even one Jewish person who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity, did so continuously for the past three thousand years.

 

[Shusha]

Ah. So you are claiming that there are no "real" Jews?

 

[louie888]

Ah. So you are claiming that there are no "real" Jews?

No, illiterate, and you obviously did not follow the simple instructions that I provided for you.

 

[Shusha]

Explain to me why the Jewish people should not have the same restitution and restoration that the Arab Palestinian people should have?

Is it because the Jewish people shouldn't have fundamental human rights?
Is it because the Jewish people no longer exist?
Is it because there are no Jewish people?
Is it because there are not enough Jewish people?
Is it because they were successfully completely removed from their territory?

What? Why shouldn't the Jewish people have the same rights to restoration as the Palestinians?

 

[louie888]

If you mean those who lived in Israel and Judea and Samaria in antiquity and did so continuously for the past three thousand years, then you need to show that prior to any more questions from you.

 

[montelatici]

I thought you would know since you made the statement. I know you are not big on proof, but I thought I'd ask.

Its a fundamental issue of human rights. Why would it matter how many people?

Even if the European Jews that colonized Palestine were descendants of the Jews of Roman Judea, the idea that a people can possess some kind of ethnic ancestral right to a territory supposedly vacated by their forebears some millenia previously, implying a right in perpetuity, can have no legal basis. Fact is, the European Jews are no more descended from those ethnic Jews than Europeans that practice other religions. Thos ethnic Jews converted to Christianity more than 1,600 years ago and ceased to be Jews. They became Christians and later Muslims.

 

[louie888]

Even if the European Jews that colonized Palestine were descendants of the Jews of Roman Judea, the idea that a people can possess some kind of ethnic ancestral right to a territory supposedly vacated by their forebears some millenia previously, implying a right in perpetuity, can have no legal basis.

This goes without saying, however, if that is not the case, then the zionist narrative is even more obtuse.

 

[Shusha]

Even if the European Jews that colonized Palestine were descendants of the Jews of Roman Judea, the idea that a people can possess some kind of ethnic ancestral right to a territory supposedly vacated by their forebears some millenia previously, implying a right in perpetuity, can have no legal basis. Fact is, the European Jews are no more descended from those ethnic Jews than Europeans that practice other religions. Thos ethnic Jews converted to Christianity more than 1,600 years ago and ceased to be Jews. They became Christians and later Muslims.

Get out of the "European" Vortex. We are not discussing Europeans for the moment.

We are discussing the Jewish people who remained in Israel, Judea and Samaria and in the general vicinity.




But this is interesting: that a people can possess some kind of ethnic ancestral right to a territory supposedly vacated by their forebears some millenia previously, implying a right in perpetuity, can have no legal basis.

You don't think indigenous peoples should have rights? Against colonizers and invaders? You know that completely negates your argument for the Arab Palestinian peoples, right?

 

[louie888]

We are discussing the Jewish people who remained in Israel, Judea and Samaria and in the general vicinity.

Didn't the ones still there around 300 AD convert to Christianity, and didn't many of those become Muslims?

And does what you derail this thread with make Gaza any less of a concentration camp?

 

[Shusha]

We are discussing the Jewish people who remained in Israel, Judea and Samaria and in the general vicinity.

Didn't the ones still there around 300 AD convert to Christianity, and didn't many of those become Muslims?

And does what you derail this thread with make Gaza any less of a concentration camp?

Many did. Not all. Many fled or were forced out because they would not become "other". Do those people who stayed not deserve restitution and restoration? Do those people who fled or were forced out not deserve restitution and restoration?

The reason we are discussing this is because we are trying to find a SOLUTION to the suffering of the Gazan people.

There can be no peace and no solution in a zero-sum game. There can be no peace and no solution as long as EITHER people are not given restitution and restored to self-determination and sovereignty.

For the pro-Israelis the Gaza solution could not be more simple. Stop the hostilities. Develop peaceful relations between Gaza and Israel. Economic partnerships, trade agreements, shared infrastructure for water and sewage treatment, tourism. Provide financial restitution and even property ownership to those who lost it. Let each people flourish in their own territory, under their own sovereignty with mutual co-operation.

But every time I suggest such a thing the anti-Israelis argue.

 

[louie888]

Many did. Not all. Many fled or were forced out because they would not become "other". Do those people who stayed not deserve restitution and restoration? Do those people who fled or were forced out not deserve restitution and restoration?

You need to prove that as an historical event prior to asking that question.

 

[Shusha]

Many did. Not all. Many fled or were forced out because they would not become "other". Do those people who stayed not deserve restitution and restoration? Do those people who fled or were forced out not deserve restitution and restoration?

You need to prove that as an historical event prior to asking that question.

Why would I "need" to do that? Do First Nations peoples of the Americas have to "prove" their history before being considered for restitution and restoration? Or is this something special for the Jewish people?

By constantly asking for "proof" of the existence of the Jewish people, you are implying that they do not exist.

 

[louie888]

Why would I "need" to do that? Do First Nations peoples of the Americas have to "prove" their history before being considered for restitution and restoration?

The whole world already knows this with historical proof.

Or is this something special for the Jewish people?

By constantly asking for "proof" of the existence of the Jewish people, you are implying that they do not exist.

It is special in that it is only they who claim such crazy shit. It was your statement about this imagined 3000 year continuous presence that requires the proof as the world does not come close agreeing on that and HISTORY DOES NOT REFLECT THAT.

If it is not there homeland, then it is not their homeland, pretty simple really.

 

[Shusha]

Please provide historical proof of the First Nations of the Americas.

 

[louie888]

Please provide historical proof of the First Nations of the Americas.

You apparently agree that Gaza Is a Concentration Camp with ongoing crimes against humanity.

I can't see any other reason for your idiotic derailing.