Gay marriage

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
and the constitution does not give the states right, setting up the federalist system?

I don't think I understand your question.

The states are provided authority by the Constitution.

-Not the feds.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I don't think I understand your question.

The states are provided authority by the Constitution.

-Not the feds.

are not the feds provided authority by the constitution as well? and those authorities NOT specificallly provided to or prohibited by the states, then falls to the states, or the people?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
are not the feds provided authority by the constitution as well? and those authorities NOT specificallly provided to or prohibited by the states, then falls to the states, or the people?

Correct. -The chain of command/authority as I stated.

Which makes it a Constitutional Republic.

-A republic by which the Constitution grants authority.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I don't think I understand your question.

The states are provided authority by the Constitution.

-Not the feds.

Everything NOT provided for in the Constitution, is reserved to the states. The states, through the instrument of the US Constitution, cede some powers, enumerated to the fed.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Correct. -The chain of command/authority as I stated.

Which makes it a Constitutional Republic.

-A republic by which the Constitution grants authority.

ok, so we're using different words to mean the same thing and its getting mixed up in the translation of each. cool

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
ok, so we're using different words to mean the same thing and its getting mixed up in the translation of each. cool

Yep, sort of.

The type of government we have is referred to as a Constitutional Republic.

If we want to DESCRIBE our nation by the behaviors of representation or electoral behaviors or other such thing, the description should be used as just that: A description of the behaviors.

The form of Government is in fact, though, a Constitutional Republic.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Everything NOT provided for in the Constitution, is reserved to the states. The states, through the instrument of the US Constitution, cede some powers, enumerated to the fed.

Ummm.....I wouldn't go that direction, but the effect probably works out the same.

I don't see any state ceding anything. The Fed gets those powers which the state doesn't get.

The state gives up nothing it had since it didn't have it to begin with.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Ummm.....I wouldn't go that direction, but the effect probably works out the same.

I don't see any state ceding anything. The Fed gets those powers which the state doesn't get.

The state gives up nothing it had since it didn't have it to begin with.

OK, see ya point. But the 'federation' of states do, the original signatories had the power and transfered, "some" but not all, though it's not the way it has worked out for the most part.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
OK, see ya point. But the 'federation' of states do, the original signatories had the power and transfered, "some" but not all, though it's not the way it has worked out for the most part.

Can you clarify?

Are we talking about a collective giving of power from state to fed?

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Can you clarify?

Are we talking about a collective giving of power from state to fed?

Under the articles, the original 13 were but a loose confederation, giving no real power to the central gov't. The Philadelphia meeting changed that. They ceded real powers to the central government, yet through the 10th amendment attempted to keep those not ceded.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Under the articles, the original 13 were but a loose confederation, giving no real power to the central gov't. The Philadelphia meeting changed that. They ceded real powers to the central government, yet through the 10th amendment attempted to keep those not ceded.

If you are talking about this meeting being for the Constitution, then there could be no other way to balance power appropriately with a confederate and yet federalist system.

Power would not have been given up, though, as it was not truly established what the proper government was to be. The Declaration of Independence was used in place of the Cnstitution until it was created.

No document ever stated what the power structure was until that point.

-Therefore no power would have been given up.

None had been assigned in the first place.

They were individual states, yes. Soverighn, only by behavior but not by established agreement between themselves.

Nothing was a uniform agreement and therefore there was no official government established until the Constitution created one.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
If you are talking about this meeting being for the Constitution, then there could be no other way to balance power appropriately with a confederate and yet federalist system.

Power would not have been given up, though, as it was not truly established what the proper government was to be. The Declaration of Independence was used in place of the Cnstitution until it was created.

No document ever stated what the power structure was until that point.

-Therefore no power would have been given up.

None had been assigned in the first place.

They were individual states, yes. Soverighn, only by behavior but not by established agreement between themselves.

Nothing was a uniform agreement and therefore there was no official government established until the Constitution created one.

Once again, oh dear, we disagree. I never claimed a 'fair or balanced' distribution of power. The representatives of the states did what they thought right or perhaps what they agreed to at that moment in time. To be a bit Hobbsean about the whole thing, the individual cedes some rights, such as killing others, etc., when adopted into a country via citizenship. Granted most of us are born to it. The only rights that cannot be ceded, by enlightenment theory, would be natural rights, as stated in the Declaration.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Once again, oh dear, we disagree. I never claimed a 'fair or balanced' distribution of power. The representatives of the states did what they thought right or perhaps what they agreed to at that moment in time. To be a bit Hobbsean about the whole thing, the individual cedes some rights, such as killing others, etc., when adopted into a country via citizenship. Granted most of us are born to it. The only rights that cannot be ceded, by enlightenment theory, would be natural rights, as stated in the Declaration.

I think you lost me a few steps ago.

How was power given up? When was the time frame?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by NewGuy
If you are talking about this meeting being for the Constitution, then there could be no other way to balance power appropriately with a confederate and yet federalist system.

Power would not have been given up, though, as it was not truly established what the proper government was to be. The Declaration of Independence was used in place of the Cnstitution until it was created.

No document ever stated what the power structure was until that point.

-Therefore no power would have been given up.

None had been assigned in the first place.

They were individual states, yes. Soverighn, only by behavior but not by established agreement between themselves.

Nothing was a uniform agreement and therefore there was no official government established until the Constitution created one.

NG, what about the Articles of Confederation?

And how can you claim that states had no powers to give up when that was the whole basis of federalism, i.e. the states gave up some of their powers, as sovreign states, to the federal government?

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I think you lost me a few steps ago.

How was power given up? When was the time frame?

New Guy and I will continue this upon my DC interlude. :clap1:

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
NG, what about the Articles of Confederation?

And how can you claim that states had no powers to give up when that was the whole basis of federalism, i.e. the states gave up some of their powers, as sovreign states, to the federal government?

Ok.....

This is getting bigger than a worktime situation. I may have to do more later tonight.

Let me take a look and get back to you.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy


Ok.....

This is getting bigger than a worktime situation. I may have to do more later tonight.

Let me take a look and get back to you.

:clap1: Now you know how I feel!

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
:clap1: Now you know how I feel!

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

:cof:

Ok....you win.

Round table for later tonight.....if you guys will be on.

:

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
:cof:

Ok....you win.

Round table for later tonight.....if you guys will be on.

:

I'll be on and off. Gotta pack. Car is a rollin' at 10 pm CST

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
I'll be on and off. Gotta pack. Car is a rollin' at 10 pm CST

Hmmm.....ok. I will get back to you personally as we had planned then.



Hey everyone, we have a date!