Gang shootings in Britain are escalating...but, they banned and confiscated guns, right?

[BULLDOG]

"Rustic, post: 19169729, member: 55848"]

Their rates? They went up from 1 to 2?
are you seriously saying their rates are anywhere close to ours?
We were started by aggressive immigrants drowned in guns.
Wt do we expect?

I've said this over and over.

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK as far back as I can find.

But all their gun laws gun bans etc did nothing to lower their murder rate.
The so called assault weapon ban in this country was allowed to expire because that gun ban had absolutely no effect on our murder rate.

Our murder rate has been on an overall decline for the last 3 decades and is really only as high as it is due to a handful of ultra violent urban shit holes

There are far more variables that contribute to the differences in murder rates between the UK and the US than just guns or gun laws.

Only simpletons think such a complex issue is due to guns and guns alone

Only a simpleton would believe the number of guns has nothing to do with it.

Then tell me why the murder rate in countries that have passed strict gun laws, bans and even confiscations do not see their murder rates drop after those laws are passed.

What you fail to understand is that anyone who will commit a murder with a gun will commit a murder without a gun.

Yep, There are many more more effective ways. Like vehicles and bombs. Fact

Really? There were 699 bomb deaths between 83 and 2002. I'm sure there are more now. Lets say they have increased by a factor of 10. Still only a tiny amount compared to gun deaths.
The United States twenty-year experience with bombing incidents: implications for terrorism preparedness and medical response. - PubMed - NCBI

As far as cars, gun deaths caught up with automobile deaths in 2014. Of course, the vast majority of auto deaths are from accidents, not someone using a car for murder.
Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

No...gun deaths did not catch up to car deaths in 2014...that is a lie......you are mixing suicide and gun murder together...which makes it a lie....

Here is the truth...acccidental death to accidental death...not even close....so, in order to lie and make it look close, you have to add in intentional self harm....suicide

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786[/QUOTE]

If you're trying to say there were only 495 deaths from guns in the US, you are nuts.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....more on the increasing gun crime, and the more likely gun murder that is becoming common in Britain..

Revealed: The toxic cocktail that led to shootings rising again in 2017

But an influx of other weapons does impact the underworld.

Around the time of Yusuf Sonko’s murder there were fears a batch of deadly pistols smuggled from the European mainland was behind a surge in trouble.

The acoustic expanding Glocks were a recurring feature in shootings in the region for around 10 months - with one even linked to the murder of Aaron Lewis.

-----

The lethal weapons are thought to have been smuggled into the UK from Slovakia as decommissioned firearms.

Merseyside Police has had success in taking guns off the streets.

Between October 1, 2016 and October 31, 2017 90 potentially lethal firearms were recovered, while major searches of open land where weapons are believed to be stashed have taken place over recent months - most notably in Speke .

But while guns are removed, those that remain are often passed between gangs.

Just thirteen weapons across Merseyside have been linked to 50 shootings.

And this is the problem that Britain is going to face.....

Crime figures published this week highlighted a startling rise in reports of violent crime and offences where offensive weapons were possessed.

Coupled with fears - long-held - that thugs are willing to use guns at a far earlier stage in disputes than ever before, the budget cuts are said to be hitting the force’s ability to target serious criminals.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you think straw purchasers and stealing are the only ways they get guns?

They don't walk into gun shops and buy guns

That's not really an answer to the question is it? They do walk up to individual sellers and buy guns.

Ya, people in gangs yeah, not ordinary citizens though. You watch for too many Hollywood movies

How would a background check stop an ordinary citizen from getting a gun? Gun dealers do them every day. How many ordinary citizens are refused because of them?

A background check for a private sale is going to increase the time and money required to purchase a gun.....it will effect the poor and their ability to buy guns...

But the real reason anti gunners want Universal Background checks...is that when they fail to effect the gun crime rate and mass shootings, it will allow the anti gunners to demand universal gun registration...that is the gold standard for gun grabbers......They need to know who owns the guns so that when they ban them, they can't be hidden or reported stolen....so first, they get universal background checks, then they demand universal gun registration...then, when they get the power, they can ban whatever they want and you can't escape....

Same shit you always say. We both know it's bullshit. Universal checks are no different from the checks given by gun dealers every day.

 

[2aguy]

"Rustic, post: 19169729, member: 55848"]

I've said this over and over.

Our murder rate has always been higher than the UK as far back as I can find.

But all their gun laws gun bans etc did nothing to lower their murder rate.
The so called assault weapon ban in this country was allowed to expire because that gun ban had absolutely no effect on our murder rate.

Our murder rate has been on an overall decline for the last 3 decades and is really only as high as it is due to a handful of ultra violent urban shit holes

There are far more variables that contribute to the differences in murder rates between the UK and the US than just guns or gun laws.

Only simpletons think such a complex issue is due to guns and guns alone

Only a simpleton would believe the number of guns has nothing to do with it.

Then tell me why the murder rate in countries that have passed strict gun laws, bans and even confiscations do not see their murder rates drop after those laws are passed.

What you fail to understand is that anyone who will commit a murder with a gun will commit a murder without a gun.

Yep, There are many more more effective ways. Like vehicles and bombs. Fact

Really? There were 699 bomb deaths between 83 and 2002. I'm sure there are more now. Lets say they have increased by a factor of 10. Still only a tiny amount compared to gun deaths.
The United States twenty-year experience with bombing incidents: implications for terrorism preparedness and medical response. - PubMed - NCBI

As far as cars, gun deaths caught up with automobile deaths in 2014. Of course, the vast majority of auto deaths are from accidents, not someone using a car for murder.
Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

No...gun deaths did not catch up to car deaths in 2014...that is a lie......you are mixing suicide and gun murder together...which makes it a lie....

Here is the truth...acccidental death to accidental death...not even close....so, in order to lie and make it look close, you have to add in intentional self harm....suicide

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786

If you're trying to say there were only 495 deaths from guns in the US, you are nuts.[/QUOTE]


No...moron.....I am comparing accidental deaths....not accidental deaths to deliberate murder....which is how you get your number in 2014....

Comparing accidents to accidents gets the true number, and no, gun deaths are not catching up to car deaths, not even close.

 

[2aguy]

They don't walk into gun shops and buy guns

That's not really an answer to the question is it? They do walk up to individual sellers and buy guns.

Ya, people in gangs yeah, not ordinary citizens though. You watch for too many Hollywood movies

How would a background check stop an ordinary citizen from getting a gun? Gun dealers do them every day. How many ordinary citizens are refused because of them?

A background check for a private sale is going to increase the time and money required to purchase a gun.....it will effect the poor and their ability to buy guns...

But the real reason anti gunners want Universal Background checks...is that when they fail to effect the gun crime rate and mass shootings, it will allow the anti gunners to demand universal gun registration...that is the gold standard for gun grabbers......They need to know who owns the guns so that when they ban them, they can't be hidden or reported stolen....so first, they get universal background checks, then they demand universal gun registration...then, when they get the power, they can ban whatever they want and you can't escape....

Same shit you always say. We both know it's bullshit. Universal checks are no different from the checks given by gun dealers every day.

No moron, they allow anti gunners like you to demand universal gun registration...which is what you really want....and you are right in one thing, Universal background checks are no different from current, federally mandated checks in that criminals and mass shooters will get around them easily....which you already know, since you don't care about that....you just dream of registering all guns so you can eventually ban and confiscate them.

 

[Toro]

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the US is 3.6 per 100,000 people.

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the UK is 0.06 per 100,000 people.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes, it's tragic.They had 350 shootings in 12 months when they only had 310 in the previous 12 months. That's 40 more dead people per year. We have 30 to 40 people killed with guns each and every day. Like I said many times before, they are doing it right. We should copy them as much as we can.

We have much bigger fish to fry, take your pick...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

So you're good with mass shootings every few weeks, and the highest gun death rate of all first world countries? That's disgusting

No...we aren't, but nothing you are suggesting will stop them. And unless you exchange our inner city criminals for the inner city criminals of Europe, you won't change our inner city shooting rate either....

Yes, universal background checks would reduce gun deaths, just like background checks for new guns do. No one method will completely stop them, but that is a stupid reason to do nothing.

No..they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything even close since current federal background checks don't stop current gun murder rates or mass shootings....

Criminals do not go through background checks now, they won't go through universal background checks in the future....Britain doesn't have background checks for the guns being used by their criminals....they have done every single thing you want, up to and including banning guns and confiscating all guns for everyone but the rich and famous who have their tiny number of hunting rifles and shotguns which they keep at gun clubs....

And their gun crime rate is sky rocketing.......you have no idea what you are talking about......

The way you reduce gun crime is to arrest and jail violent gun offenders and keep them locked up for 30 years...anything else is either intentionally dishonest and an attempt to ban guns for law abiding people, or is uninformed silliness from people who don't know what they are talking about...

Which one are you?

Their gun crime rate is extremely tiny. We should as them for some tips on reducing ours.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes....more on the increasing gun crime, and the more likely gun murder that is becoming common in Britain..

Revealed: The toxic cocktail that led to shootings rising again in 2017

But an influx of other weapons does impact the underworld.

Around the time of Yusuf Sonko’s murder there were fears a batch of deadly pistols smuggled from the European mainland was behind a surge in trouble.

The acoustic expanding Glocks were a recurring feature in shootings in the region for around 10 months - with one even linked to the murder of Aaron Lewis.

-----

The lethal weapons are thought to have been smuggled into the UK from Slovakia as decommissioned firearms.

Merseyside Police has had success in taking guns off the streets.

Between October 1, 2016 and October 31, 2017 90 potentially lethal firearms were recovered, while major searches of open land where weapons are believed to be stashed have taken place over recent months - most notably in Speke .

But while guns are removed, those that remain are often passed between gangs.

Just thirteen weapons across Merseyside have been linked to 50 shootings.

And this is the problem that Britain is going to face.....

Crime figures published this week highlighted a startling rise in reports of violent crime and offences where offensive weapons were possessed.

Coupled with fears - long-held - that thugs are willing to use guns at a far earlier stage in disputes than ever before, the budget cuts are said to be hitting the force’s ability to target serious criminals.

Yep.Looks like UK criminals have been reduced to renting guns for their crimes. Good for the UK.

"Rustic, post: 19169729, member: 55848"]

Only a simpleton would believe the number of guns has nothing to do with it.

Then tell me why the murder rate in countries that have passed strict gun laws, bans and even confiscations do not see their murder rates drop after those laws are passed.

What you fail to understand is that anyone who will commit a murder with a gun will commit a murder without a gun.

Yep, There are many more more effective ways. Like vehicles and bombs. Fact

Really? There were 699 bomb deaths between 83 and 2002. I'm sure there are more now. Lets say they have increased by a factor of 10. Still only a tiny amount compared to gun deaths.
The United States twenty-year experience with bombing incidents: implications for terrorism preparedness and medical response. - PubMed - NCBI

As far as cars, gun deaths caught up with automobile deaths in 2014. Of course, the vast majority of auto deaths are from accidents, not someone using a car for murder.
Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

No...gun deaths did not catch up to car deaths in 2014...that is a lie......you are mixing suicide and gun murder together...which makes it a lie....

Here is the truth...acccidental death to accidental death...not even close....so, in order to lie and make it look close, you have to add in intentional self harm....suicide

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786

If you're trying to say there were only 495 deaths from guns in the US, you are nuts.

No...moron.....I am comparing accidental deaths....not accidental deaths to deliberate murder....which is how you get your number in 2014....

Comparing accidents to accidents gets the true number, and no, gun deaths are not catching up to car deaths, not even close.[/QUOTE]

What has that got to do with crooks and crazies being able to buy all the guns they want without a background check that would stop LOTS of those sales?

 

[BULLDOG]

That's not really an answer to the question is it? They do walk up to individual sellers and buy guns.

Ya, people in gangs yeah, not ordinary citizens though. You watch for too many Hollywood movies

How would a background check stop an ordinary citizen from getting a gun? Gun dealers do them every day. How many ordinary citizens are refused because of them?

A background check for a private sale is going to increase the time and money required to purchase a gun.....it will effect the poor and their ability to buy guns...

But the real reason anti gunners want Universal Background checks...is that when they fail to effect the gun crime rate and mass shootings, it will allow the anti gunners to demand universal gun registration...that is the gold standard for gun grabbers......They need to know who owns the guns so that when they ban them, they can't be hidden or reported stolen....so first, they get universal background checks, then they demand universal gun registration...then, when they get the power, they can ban whatever they want and you can't escape....

Same shit you always say. We both know it's bullshit. Universal checks are no different from the checks given by gun dealers every day.

No moron, they allow anti gunners like you to demand universal gun registration...which is what you really want....and you are right in one thing, Universal background checks are no different from current, federally mandated checks in that criminals and mass shooters will get around them easily....which you already know, since you don't care about that....you just dream of registering all guns so you can eventually ban and confiscate them.

The NRA told you someone is going to take everybody's guns. That's not going to happen. However yours might be taken. You don't sound too stable to me.

 

[2aguy]

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the US is 3.6 per 100,000 people.

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the UK is 0.06 per 100,000 people.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

And for that to be relevant you would have to show that their gun murder rate went down after they banned and confiscated guns...it went up, then returned to the same level it was at before they banned guns...showing that their gun control laws did not effect their gun murder rate...please...try to keep up.

As more Americans owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down....showing that law abiding people owning and carrying guns does not drive up the gun murder or gun crime rate.......showing that it is criminal control, not gun control, that lowers the gun murder and gun crime rate.....

 

[2aguy]

Ya, people in gangs yeah, not ordinary citizens though. You watch for too many Hollywood movies

How would a background check stop an ordinary citizen from getting a gun? Gun dealers do them every day. How many ordinary citizens are refused because of them?

A background check for a private sale is going to increase the time and money required to purchase a gun.....it will effect the poor and their ability to buy guns...

But the real reason anti gunners want Universal Background checks...is that when they fail to effect the gun crime rate and mass shootings, it will allow the anti gunners to demand universal gun registration...that is the gold standard for gun grabbers......They need to know who owns the guns so that when they ban them, they can't be hidden or reported stolen....so first, they get universal background checks, then they demand universal gun registration...then, when they get the power, they can ban whatever they want and you can't escape....

Same shit you always say. We both know it's bullshit. Universal checks are no different from the checks given by gun dealers every day.

No moron, they allow anti gunners like you to demand universal gun registration...which is what you really want....and you are right in one thing, Universal background checks are no different from current, federally mandated checks in that criminals and mass shooters will get around them easily....which you already know, since you don't care about that....you just dream of registering all guns so you can eventually ban and confiscate them.

The NRA told you someone is going to take everybody's guns. That's not going to happen. However yours might be taken. You don't sound too stable to me.

No...history tells us that governments end up taking guns away from their people.....Germany, Britain, Australia, Canada, New York, California......these are just recent examples......we know that the route to gun confiscation begins with gun registration....even decades before they ban and confiscate guns.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes....more on the increasing gun crime, and the more likely gun murder that is becoming common in Britain..

Revealed: The toxic cocktail that led to shootings rising again in 2017

But an influx of other weapons does impact the underworld.

Around the time of Yusuf Sonko’s murder there were fears a batch of deadly pistols smuggled from the European mainland was behind a surge in trouble.

The acoustic expanding Glocks were a recurring feature in shootings in the region for around 10 months - with one even linked to the murder of Aaron Lewis.

-----

The lethal weapons are thought to have been smuggled into the UK from Slovakia as decommissioned firearms.

Merseyside Police has had success in taking guns off the streets.

Between October 1, 2016 and October 31, 2017 90 potentially lethal firearms were recovered, while major searches of open land where weapons are believed to be stashed have taken place over recent months - most notably in Speke .

But while guns are removed, those that remain are often passed between gangs.

Just thirteen weapons across Merseyside have been linked to 50 shootings.

And this is the problem that Britain is going to face.....

Crime figures published this week highlighted a startling rise in reports of violent crime and offences where offensive weapons were possessed.

Coupled with fears - long-held - that thugs are willing to use guns at a far earlier stage in disputes than ever before, the budget cuts are said to be hitting the force’s ability to target serious criminals.

Yep.Looks like UK criminals have been reduced to renting guns for their crimes. Good for the UK.

"Rustic, post: 19169729, member: 55848"]

Then tell me why the murder rate in countries that have passed strict gun laws, bans and even confiscations do not see their murder rates drop after those laws are passed.

What you fail to understand is that anyone who will commit a murder with a gun will commit a murder without a gun.

Yep, There are many more more effective ways. Like vehicles and bombs. Fact

Really? There were 699 bomb deaths between 83 and 2002. I'm sure there are more now. Lets say they have increased by a factor of 10. Still only a tiny amount compared to gun deaths.
The United States twenty-year experience with bombing incidents: implications for terrorism preparedness and medical response. - PubMed - NCBI

As far as cars, gun deaths caught up with automobile deaths in 2014. Of course, the vast majority of auto deaths are from accidents, not someone using a car for murder.
Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

No...gun deaths did not catch up to car deaths in 2014...that is a lie......you are mixing suicide and gun murder together...which makes it a lie....

Here is the truth...acccidental death to accidental death...not even close....so, in order to lie and make it look close, you have to add in intentional self harm....suicide

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786

If you're trying to say there were only 495 deaths from guns in the US, you are nuts.

No...moron.....I am comparing accidental deaths....not accidental deaths to deliberate murder....which is how you get your number in 2014....

Comparing accidents to accidents gets the true number, and no, gun deaths are not catching up to car deaths, not even close.

What has that got to do with crooks and crazies being able to buy all the guns they want without a background check that would stop LOTS of those sales?[/QUOTE]


They can't buy all the guns they want without background checks.....you make up crap by pulling it out of your ass, and think that people will just believe it...we know that criminals get their guns by stealing them or by using straw buyers...which means they go through the background check using someone who can pass it.......shithead.....that means those same straw buyers will pass a background check for a private sale.....

Background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns.....

 

[2aguy]

We have much bigger fish to fry, take your pick...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

So you're good with mass shootings every few weeks, and the highest gun death rate of all first world countries? That's disgusting

No...we aren't, but nothing you are suggesting will stop them. And unless you exchange our inner city criminals for the inner city criminals of Europe, you won't change our inner city shooting rate either....

Yes, universal background checks would reduce gun deaths, just like background checks for new guns do. No one method will completely stop them, but that is a stupid reason to do nothing.

No..they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything even close since current federal background checks don't stop current gun murder rates or mass shootings....

Criminals do not go through background checks now, they won't go through universal background checks in the future....Britain doesn't have background checks for the guns being used by their criminals....they have done every single thing you want, up to and including banning guns and confiscating all guns for everyone but the rich and famous who have their tiny number of hunting rifles and shotguns which they keep at gun clubs....

And their gun crime rate is sky rocketing.......you have no idea what you are talking about......

The way you reduce gun crime is to arrest and jail violent gun offenders and keep them locked up for 30 years...anything else is either intentionally dishonest and an attempt to ban guns for law abiding people, or is uninformed silliness from people who don't know what they are talking about...

Which one are you?

Their gun crime rate is extremely tiny. We should as them for some tips on reducing ours.

Their gun crime rate is going up......and up....and up...because their criminals are defending drug turf from 3rd world immigrant drug gangs who are also using guns to take that turf....

Our gun crime rate is going down.......their gun crime rate is going up...what about that do you not understand?

 

[2aguy]

We have much bigger fish to fry, take your pick...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

So you're good with mass shootings every few weeks, and the highest gun death rate of all first world countries? That's disgusting

No...we aren't, but nothing you are suggesting will stop them. And unless you exchange our inner city criminals for the inner city criminals of Europe, you won't change our inner city shooting rate either....

Yes, universal background checks would reduce gun deaths, just like background checks for new guns do. No one method will completely stop them, but that is a stupid reason to do nothing.

No..they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything even close since current federal background checks don't stop current gun murder rates or mass shootings....

Criminals do not go through background checks now, they won't go through universal background checks in the future....Britain doesn't have background checks for the guns being used by their criminals....they have done every single thing you want, up to and including banning guns and confiscating all guns for everyone but the rich and famous who have their tiny number of hunting rifles and shotguns which they keep at gun clubs....

And their gun crime rate is sky rocketing.......you have no idea what you are talking about......

The way you reduce gun crime is to arrest and jail violent gun offenders and keep them locked up for 30 years...anything else is either intentionally dishonest and an attempt to ban guns for law abiding people, or is uninformed silliness from people who don't know what they are talking about...

Which one are you?

Their gun crime rate is extremely tiny. We should as them for some tips on reducing ours.

Britain...confiscated guns...their gun crime rate is going up....

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

United States...our gun crime rate is going down...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[BULLDOG]

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the US is 3.6 per 100,000 people.

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the UK is 0.06 per 100,000 people.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

And for that to be relevant you would have to show that their gun murder rate went down after they banned and confiscated guns...it went up, then returned to the same level it was at before they banned guns...showing that their gun control laws did not effect their gun murder rate...please...try to keep up.

As more Americans owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down....showing that law abiding people owning and carrying guns does not drive up the gun murder or gun crime rate.......showing that it is criminal control, not gun control, that lowers the gun murder and gun crime rate.....

That's OK you are free to believe all the NRA propaganda you want to believe, even it it is stupid and wrong.

 

[Rustic]

We have much bigger fish to fry, take your pick...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

So you're good with mass shootings every few weeks, and the highest gun death rate of all first world countries? That's disgusting

No...we aren't, but nothing you are suggesting will stop them. And unless you exchange our inner city criminals for the inner city criminals of Europe, you won't change our inner city shooting rate either....

Yes, universal background checks would reduce gun deaths, just like background checks for new guns do. No one method will completely stop them, but that is a stupid reason to do nothing.

No..they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything even close since current federal background checks don't stop current gun murder rates or mass shootings....

Criminals do not go through background checks now, they won't go through universal background checks in the future....Britain doesn't have background checks for the guns being used by their criminals....they have done every single thing you want, up to and including banning guns and confiscating all guns for everyone but the rich and famous who have their tiny number of hunting rifles and shotguns which they keep at gun clubs....

And their gun crime rate is sky rocketing.......you have no idea what you are talking about......

The way you reduce gun crime is to arrest and jail violent gun offenders and keep them locked up for 30 years...anything else is either intentionally dishonest and an attempt to ban guns for law abiding people, or is uninformed silliness from people who don't know what they are talking about...

Which one are you?

Their gun crime rate is extremely tiny. We should as them for some tips on reducing ours.

Your ancestors kicked them the fuck out of this country... Why would we ask them for anything when they don’t know nothing

 

[BULLDOG]

How would a background check stop an ordinary citizen from getting a gun? Gun dealers do them every day. How many ordinary citizens are refused because of them?

A background check for a private sale is going to increase the time and money required to purchase a gun.....it will effect the poor and their ability to buy guns...

But the real reason anti gunners want Universal Background checks...is that when they fail to effect the gun crime rate and mass shootings, it will allow the anti gunners to demand universal gun registration...that is the gold standard for gun grabbers......They need to know who owns the guns so that when they ban them, they can't be hidden or reported stolen....so first, they get universal background checks, then they demand universal gun registration...then, when they get the power, they can ban whatever they want and you can't escape....

Same shit you always say. We both know it's bullshit. Universal checks are no different from the checks given by gun dealers every day.

No moron, they allow anti gunners like you to demand universal gun registration...which is what you really want....and you are right in one thing, Universal background checks are no different from current, federally mandated checks in that criminals and mass shooters will get around them easily....which you already know, since you don't care about that....you just dream of registering all guns so you can eventually ban and confiscate them.

The NRA told you someone is going to take everybody's guns. That's not going to happen. However yours might be taken. You don't sound too stable to me.

No...history tells us that governments end up taking guns away from their people.....Germany, Britain, Australia, Canada, New York, California......these are just recent examples......we know that the route to gun confiscation begins with gun registration....even decades before they ban and confiscate guns.....

I know you really believe that.

 

[Rustic]

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the US is 3.6 per 100,000 people.

The rate of homicide from gun violence in the UK is 0.06 per 100,000 people.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

And for that to be relevant you would have to show that their gun murder rate went down after they banned and confiscated guns...it went up, then returned to the same level it was at before they banned guns...showing that their gun control laws did not effect their gun murder rate...please...try to keep up.

As more Americans owned and actually carried guns, our gun murder rate went down....showing that law abiding people owning and carrying guns does not drive up the gun murder or gun crime rate.......showing that it is criminal control, not gun control, that lowers the gun murder and gun crime rate.....

That's OK you are free to believe all the NRA propaganda you want to believe, even it it is stupid and wrong.

The NRA is not pro-gun enough

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes....more on the increasing gun crime, and the more likely gun murder that is becoming common in Britain..

Revealed: The toxic cocktail that led to shootings rising again in 2017

But an influx of other weapons does impact the underworld.

Around the time of Yusuf Sonko’s murder there were fears a batch of deadly pistols smuggled from the European mainland was behind a surge in trouble.

The acoustic expanding Glocks were a recurring feature in shootings in the region for around 10 months - with one even linked to the murder of Aaron Lewis.

-----

The lethal weapons are thought to have been smuggled into the UK from Slovakia as decommissioned firearms.

Merseyside Police has had success in taking guns off the streets.

Between October 1, 2016 and October 31, 2017 90 potentially lethal firearms were recovered, while major searches of open land where weapons are believed to be stashed have taken place over recent months - most notably in Speke .

But while guns are removed, those that remain are often passed between gangs.

Just thirteen weapons across Merseyside have been linked to 50 shootings.

And this is the problem that Britain is going to face.....

Crime figures published this week highlighted a startling rise in reports of violent crime and offences where offensive weapons were possessed.

Coupled with fears - long-held - that thugs are willing to use guns at a far earlier stage in disputes than ever before, the budget cuts are said to be hitting the force’s ability to target serious criminals.

Yep.Looks like UK criminals have been reduced to renting guns for their crimes. Good for the UK.

"Rustic, post: 19169729, member: 55848"]Yep, There are many more more effective ways. Like vehicles and bombs. Fact

Really? There were 699 bomb deaths between 83 and 2002. I'm sure there are more now. Lets say they have increased by a factor of 10. Still only a tiny amount compared to gun deaths.
The United States twenty-year experience with bombing incidents: implications for terrorism preparedness and medical response. - PubMed - NCBI

As far as cars, gun deaths caught up with automobile deaths in 2014. Of course, the vast majority of auto deaths are from accidents, not someone using a car for murder.
Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

No...gun deaths did not catch up to car deaths in 2014...that is a lie......you are mixing suicide and gun murder together...which makes it a lie....

Here is the truth...acccidental death to accidental death...not even close....so, in order to lie and make it look close, you have to add in intentional self harm....suicide

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748

poisoning......58,335

falling.......34,673

suffocation...6,610

drowning......3,786

If you're trying to say there were only 495 deaths from guns in the US, you are nuts.

No...moron.....I am comparing accidental deaths....not accidental deaths to deliberate murder....which is how you get your number in 2014....

Comparing accidents to accidents gets the true number, and no, gun deaths are not catching up to car deaths, not even close.

What has that got to do with crooks and crazies being able to buy all the guns they want without a background check that would stop LOTS of those sales?

They can't buy all the guns they want without background checks.....you make up crap by pulling it out of your ass, and think that people will just believe it...we know that criminals get their guns by stealing them or by using straw buyers...which means they go through the background check using someone who can pass it.......shithead.....that means those same straw buyers will pass a background check for a private sale.....

Background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns.....[/QUOTE]

Just because you say it isn't true doesn't make it that way. What stops crooks and crazies from buying all the guns they want from individual sellers without a background check?

 

[BULLDOG]

So you're good with mass shootings every few weeks, and the highest gun death rate of all first world countries? That's disgusting

No...we aren't, but nothing you are suggesting will stop them. And unless you exchange our inner city criminals for the inner city criminals of Europe, you won't change our inner city shooting rate either....

Yes, universal background checks would reduce gun deaths, just like background checks for new guns do. No one method will completely stop them, but that is a stupid reason to do nothing.

No..they wouldn't, they wouldn't do anything even close since current federal background checks don't stop current gun murder rates or mass shootings....

Criminals do not go through background checks now, they won't go through universal background checks in the future....Britain doesn't have background checks for the guns being used by their criminals....they have done every single thing you want, up to and including banning guns and confiscating all guns for everyone but the rich and famous who have their tiny number of hunting rifles and shotguns which they keep at gun clubs....

And their gun crime rate is sky rocketing.......you have no idea what you are talking about......

The way you reduce gun crime is to arrest and jail violent gun offenders and keep them locked up for 30 years...anything else is either intentionally dishonest and an attempt to ban guns for law abiding people, or is uninformed silliness from people who don't know what they are talking about...

Which one are you?

Their gun crime rate is extremely tiny. We should as them for some tips on reducing ours.

Their gun crime rate is going up......and up....and up...because their criminals are defending drug turf from 3rd world immigrant drug gangs who are also using guns to take that turf....

Our gun crime rate is going down.......their gun crime rate is going up...what about that do you not understand?

Yes. Their gun death rate went up 40 deaths per year. That's not up.....and up.......and up..... That's just a tiny bit up, especially when you consider we kill about 40 every day.