Gang of 8 Plan Good?

[GHook93]

From a conservative perspective I'm always skeptical! People fear pissing off the influential Hispanic voting block and the corporate donors (don't forget who employs illegals), so immigration reform usu becomes ignore the enforcement part and just do the amnesty part!

However, see below daily-caller calls it a win for conservatives. Are they right

Four things conservatives should applaud in the immigration bill | The Daily Caller

1. Border security. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act appropriated $1.2 billion (which many thought was an inadequate amount) to build a fence on 700 miles of the southern border. Much of this fence was never completed. This led border security hawk and former Sen. Jim DeMint (now head of the Heritage Foundation) to offer an amendment to the DHS appropriations bill in 2009 that would have mandated the fence be built by December 31, 2010. The amendment passed the Senate, but never became law, much to the dismay of DeMint and many other conservatives.

The new immigration reform bill contains $4.5 billion to implement border security. A majority of the border security funds go toward actual fence-building or maintaining a physical presence on the border — physical, not “virtual” fencing.

I was too young to really comprehend Reagan's amnesty bill at the time, but enforcement was part of the bill. Cities and States decided to ignore the enforcement part and the pro-illegal traitors demonize anyone who tries to enforce the laws.

I am old enough to remember the Secure Fence Act and it's a failure. More wasted and nothing has been done. Liberals place up to many obstacles. Pro-illegals bring stalling suits at every corner and no one has the ballz to take on these groups, so the money just get squandered. In the end, will $3B more add anything? Time will tell, but the government's track record isn't good here. I expect no fence of substance to be built and only a minor inconvenience to illegals coming here.

2. E-verify. Conservatives have long complained about employers hiring illegal immigrants and getting away with it. This bill contains tough e-verify provisions — potentially the biggest deterrent in the bill to future illegal immigration and illegal immigrants not eligible for legalization remaining in the US. This is significant, considering that many liberals and civil libertarians (for whom immigration reform is an important issue) oppose it. America’s Voice, a pro-immigration group, viewed inclusion of E-verify as a “trade-off.” The ACLU obviously is not enthused about E-verify forming a part of the bill. But conservatives got it into the bill.

I love eVerify and it just makes sense! What is the penalty for ignoring it? If it's not substantial, it will get ignored. Huge area is the construction sector? Will if apply to them? Many times these guys get paid off the books, so eVerify might not catch a huge sector that is a giant part of the problem.

3. Obamacare. Congressional Democrats wanted Obamacare exchanges to cover all immigrants. However, in addition to putting all illegal immigrants who legalize under the same constraints as legal immigrants with regard to benefit-seeking (i.e., they are legally barred from seeking or receiving welfare), the immigration bill also prevents access to Obamacare. As Sen. Marco Rubio said on Fox News Sunday, “[T]hey don’t qualify for any federal benefits… This is an important point. No federal benefits, no food stamps, no welfare, no Obamacare. They have to prove they’re gainfully employed. They have to be able to support themselves, so they’ll never become a public charge.” This is a point on which President Obama was forced to concede, and a make-or-break point from conservatives’ standpoint.

Makes sense, but I consistently see illegals get welfare and food stamps now and they aren't supposed to. I don't think that will end now. Besides the vast vast majority of illegals don't get healthcare, so why would they get it now when the cost is skyrocketing. They will continue us the ER like a pediatrician's office or as their main doctor and sick the American with the bill.

Obamacare is a horrendous plan, so this little jump for joy doesn't give me optimism!

4. Cutoff date. The cutoff date for eligibility to apply for legal status is December 31, 2011. But as the executive director of the aforementioned pro-immigration group, America’s Voice, told the New York Times: “We understand the need for a cutoff date, but it should be 2013, not 2011.” As a result, this bill takes a more conservative approach and doesn’t make legalization an option for recent arrivals (who might have come here specifically to take advantage of potential legislation.

)
LOL, I am still wondering how they intend to prove someones time here. I mean they are illegal, so they skate underneath the law. Will it be old bank statements (yea those can't be forged)? Old utility bills? Ditto. I guarantee a guy who came here yesterday will be able to buy the "proof" he needs to meet the deadline.

We are not so naive into believing this will happen!


I am pessimistic, because I see how sanctuary cities and STATES just ignore enforcement and in many cases actively work against it.

I applaud Rubio's efforts, but I don't think this will have any effect accept turning two red states blue (which is intent) - TX and AZ. Think about it. California, a mecca for business big and small, was in play up until amnesty. After amnesty CA was guaranteed blue. Regardless of liberal wishing, TX and AZ are far from becoming blue. Let's not accelerate that!

 

[GHook93]

Here's the truth about my plan for immigration reform | Fox News
That is why I am advocating for securing our borders, improving enforcement, modernizing our legal immigration system and changing it so that it prioritizes welcoming people to the U.S. based on skills, not just on whether they have a family member already living here.

And that is why I support a process to identify and register those who are here illegally. They will have to submit biometric data in order to pass multiple national security and criminal background checks, pay $2,000 in fines, pay taxes, and learn English and American civics. They won’t be able to get any federal benefits like welfare or ObamaCare.

Before they can even apply to become permanent residents, they will have to wait at least ten years. They will have to get in line behind those who are trying to come the right way.

They will have to wait until we have a system in place to prevent illegal immigrants from being hired.

They will have to wait until we have a system in place to track people who overstay their visas.

And they will have to wait until we implement plans to spend at least $5.5 billion dollars to secure the border through more border patrol officers, more technology and more fencing.

I love Rubio, but I see some political double talk there.
(1) Securing the Border and Enforcement First: I will believe it when I see it. Reagan amnesty had an enforcement provision, but it wasn't enforced.
(2) 10 year waiting period and then the back of the line. I know the have a Dream Act 5 yr waiting period. That is the backdoor. I guarantee, most will fall here and in 5yrs the border fence will be a failure, yet they will claim significant process = trigger to amnesty. And the back of the line? Come on who the crappin?
(3) Modernizing our LEGAL immigration system is a way of saying push through more illegals!

 

[Ravi]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

 

[GHook93]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

I am for a National ID card! And I work for a large database company, we don't have anything private anymore anyways and we already sell a ton of info to the gov!

And FYI I'm for more public security cameras, use of drones etc. While I admire and love Rand Paul I think his drone filibuster was unnecessary!

Everify seems like common sense to me, can't understand why a tax to death liberal would approve of letting people out of paying their taxes (including the entities that get out of payroll taxes)!

 

[Ravi]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

I am for a National ID card! And I work for a large database company, we don't have anything private anymore anyways and we already sell a ton of info to the gov!

And FYI I'm for more public security cameras, use of drones etc. While I admire and love Rand Paul I think his drone filibuster was unnecessary!

Everify seems like common sense to me, can't understand why a tax to death liberal would approve of letting people out of paying their taxes (including the entities that get out of payroll taxes)!

That's sad. It has nothing to do with paying taxes dope.

 

[hjmick]

Immigration reform could be bonanza for Democrats - POLITICO.com

As if we didn't already know...

 

[Big Black Dog]

It's not a good plan unless it provides for truly securing the border and making all the illegal aliens get the fuck out of the country.

 

[RoadVirus]

The "Gang of 8" plan is a disaster waiting to happen.

Protecting American Workers: This bill protects American workers from unwarranted immigration for jobs that Americans are willing and able to do. For example, the proposal would not allow any work visas to be issued if the unemployment rate in a certain area is above 8.5 percent, which is the norm in many cities.
Get The Facts - Immigration Reform Facts - U.S. Senator for Florida, Marco Rubio

Problem: It's still allowing "immigrants" to take American jobs.

Increases the cap on the number of H1B visas, which go primarily to college-educated foreigners in science, technology, engineering and mathematics fields, from 85,000 to 205,000.
Senate immigration bill offers status, boosts borders

Problem: Basically, we're increasing the number of imported Foreign workers to high-paying high-tech sectors, thus once again screwing American workers. And to top it off, a majority of these "H" visa recipients are Chinese. Must be nice to be oblivious to the numerous industrial/economic and military espionage cases that is frequent with Chinese "workers" in sectors such as Aerospace and Tech.

Creates up to 200,000 visas a year, known as W visas, for people to work in retail, construction, hospitality and janitorial jobs.
Senate immigration bill offers status, boosts borders

Problem: More costly bureaucracy, more importing foreign workers and more screwing Americans.

Agricultural Worker Program: A new agricultural guest worker visa program would be established to ensure an adequate agricultural workforce to safeguard our food supply. This program will also allow current undocumented farm workers who have made a substantial prior commitment to agricultural work in the United States to obtain legal status through an Agricultural Card Program.
Get The Facts - Immigration Reform Facts - U.S. Senator for Florida, Marco Rubio

Problem: This will be known as the "Blue Card" visa program. Again: More costly bureaucracy and more screwing Americans.

 

[GHook93]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

I am for a National ID card! And I work for a large database company, we don't have anything private anymore anyways and we already sell a ton of info to the gov!

And FYI I'm for more public security cameras, use of drones etc. While I admire and love Rand Paul I think his drone filibuster was unnecessary!

Everify seems like common sense to me, can't understand why a tax to death liberal would approve of letting people out of paying their taxes (including the entities that get out of payroll taxes)!

That's sad. It has nothing to do with paying taxes dope.

Hey chubs, illegals are generally off the BOOKS, meaning they don't pay taxes (income or payroll). Then since the companies don't list them, they get out of their payroll tax obligations also!

But thanks for asking a question, then ignoring my answer because you didn't like it. So liberal of you!

 

[deaddogseye]

i never try to undersetimate the stupditiy of people in politics (smart people usually can be successful at much better things) but that being said -- the Republicans would have to be idiots to let this pass. No way they can do that. No way.

One of their biggest problems in the last election was that they apparently are unable to read objective data -- like polls (since they really thought Romney could win when anyone could see he had no chance - and i voted for him). And they are doing it again. It is as clear as clear can be -- they werent a decisive block in the last election and they will be anew influx of Democrats -- period. The second coming of the lock step / Democratic pro welfare state black vote. Republicans cannot let this happen and if the do because nit wits like McCain and Graham thionk it is good for them they deserve the fate that awaits them

 

[GHook93]

Immigration reform could be bonanza for Democrats - POLITICO.com

As if we didn't already know...

Right now if they don't appeal to Blacks or Hispanics and Asians they are toast either. They won't win Blacks, the entitlements the Democrats reckless hand out wins that demographic, but if they get immigration reform that actual seals the border and takes away the main incentive to come here (jobs - Everify would be the trick), then we both demographics could be more in play.

 

[GHook93]

It's not a good plan unless it provides for truly securing the border

Tough to do, but their are methods, maybe President Rubio has the ballz to make it happens!

and making all the illegal aliens get the fuck out of the country.

You can wish for that, but it will never happen. It's a losing position at this point. Best we can get is a system that protects the border and punishes employers for hiring illegals.

 

[boedicca]

I have a general policy of not favoring any plan put together by a "Gang" of anything.

 

[LilOlLady]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

If you were born here, have a social security number, drive, vote, went to school, work, pay taxes, ever been finger printed like to get a job in a casino, You are already in the data base.

 

[JakeStarkey]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

I am for a National ID card! And I work for a large database company, we don't have anything private anymore anyways and we already sell a ton of info to the gov!

And FYI I'm for more public security cameras, use of drones etc. While I admire and love Rand Paul I think his drone filibuster was unnecessary!

Everify seems like common sense to me, can't understand why a tax to death liberal would approve of letting people out of paying their taxes (including the entities that get out of payroll taxes)!

I have no trouble with the reform as long as secure everify and a tightened border are done before anybody gets at the back of the line.

 

[P@triot]

everify will mean that each and every one of us will have our picture and all other identifying information on a government database.

I'm surprised you approve of that, ghook.

I am for a National ID card! And I work for a large database company, we don't have anything private anymore anyways and we already sell a ton of info to the gov!

And FYI I'm for more public security cameras, use of drones etc. While I admire and love Rand Paul I think his drone filibuster was unnecessary!

Everify seems like common sense to me, can't understand why a tax to death liberal would approve of letting people out of paying their taxes (including the entities that get out of payroll taxes)!

That's sad. It has nothing to do with paying taxes dope.

Care to explain why it has "nothing to do with paying taxes"? It should...

Oh wait - that's right - I forgot for a moment that you only want hard working people punished with taxes. You want to reward lazy parasites with a free ride.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Parasites on the American way of life, such as Rottweiler, are best ignored.