French Parliament Votes to Recognize Palestinian State

[teddyearp]

So, I have one question for the Pro-Palestine folks here. What about this thread?:

A question about hamas to the pro pal lovers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

While you are all for the Palestinians, and rail about the 'injustices' wrought upon them by the 'Zionists', what do you think about the injustices that Hamas does to the Gazans?

And for Humanity, I found that you did not participate in the above linked thread at all. I am especially curious on your take.

 

[Humanity]

So, I have one question for the Pro-Palestine folks here. What about this thread?:

A question about hamas to the pro pal lovers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

While you are all for the Palestinians, and rail about the 'injustices' wrought upon them by the 'Zionists', what do you think about the injustices that Hamas does to the Gazans?

And for Humanity, I found that you did not participate in the above linked thread at all. I am especially curious on your take.

Are you calling me out here Teddy? ;-)

You know, there are a few people here who post unthinking crap, imho, don't really deserve a response, and certainly not from me. Why should I bother wasting my time responding to copy and paste bandits or those who feel the need to capitalise certain words and phrases time and again...

That's not debate, thats just clashing heads with the 'opposition'!

As you know, I am very much against violence, very much against extremism....

I do not support terrorism and I certainly do not support Hamas!

I do support the Palestinian people however... As I do support the right for Israel to exist and for a homeland for Jews... I may not necessarily agree with WHERE Israel is and can come up with a whole host of reason why, perhaps, Israel should not be where it is, but Israel is there and I support it's right to exist.

It is way overdue for an election for the Palestinians... A change is needed... And I don't even necessarily mean Fatah either! In the same way that a change is need in Israel... The right wing movement in Israel is beginning, imho, to move too far right... As I mentioned in a previous post, this is a road that will lead to the self destruction of Israel...

I don't want that!

I want a two state solution where there can be Israel and Palestine existing and co-existing... Ideally I would like to see a one state solution but Israel would never let that happen, Netanyahu would never let that happen...

I am as much against occupation of the West Bank as I am against Hamas firing rockets into Israel.

There is so much hatred here, on both sides, it actually makes 'debate' pointless...

Ultimately, neither side is right... There needs to be change from Hamas and Israel... Without it this forum will continue to be full of hatred...

When I joined this forum I made it very clear that I was once neutral but could not be neutral any longer...

There can be no neutrality in this 'conflict' but there can be some sensible discussion to try and understand, to try and find a way forward without name calling, without searching back through history books, without getting bogged down in semantics... None of which will ever achieve peace!

Who was there first, who invaded first... Who gives a shit, really! Just how far back do you want to go with this? There are plenty of atrocities that have been carried out through the centuries by more than just the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians, the Catholics.....

It's not about how far back you want to go... It's how far forward you want to go!

My two biggest fears for Israel and the region as a whole are the right wing within Israel and the extremists within Islam.

IS (ISIS, ISL or whatever they are called now) knocking on the door of Israel, the creation of a 'Jewish State', expansionist ideology by Israel, continued oppression and control of Gaza, continuing terrorism by Hamas, inconsequential Fatah.... the list feels almost endless.

I am not a big fan of the UN... But, from what I see, from what I read, perhaps the UN or other 3rd party intervening is the only way forward?

There has to be a solution, a peaceful solution but this solution will not come through the incumbents nor through violence...

I only want one thing, peace, and I want that peace for Israel and Palestine!

 

[Kondor3]

The Arabs started at the Arabian Peninsula and spread out when Big Mo started his assault on the world.

Where did the Israelites start from Tex?

Nobody really knows. They just showed up one day like a herd of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Is that right Tex?

"Nobody really knows"?

You dumb schmuck... Let me help you.... The Israelites were commanded by that 'big guy in the sky' to leave EGYPT and invade Canaan and the surrounding lands...

Not that I put much stock in such things, but...

Where were the Israelites living when Joseph was sold into slavery, 400 years prior to the Exodus?

The fellow who encouraged the rest of the Israelites to migrate into Egypt during a famine...

Where were those Israelites, again, before they migrated and became enslaved?

Well, as you clearly say Kondon...

"Not that I put much stock in such things"...

So, trying to make a comment kinda puts you on some shaky ground that, well, maybe you dont wanna be and you maybe wanna step back and not join Tex in looking like a dumb schmuck!

The same "I don't put much stock in such things" sort of viewpoint can be applied to just about any old Holy Writ originating with ANY mainstream religion.

However, given that ya'll were engaged in a discussion which holds the Exodus to be a historically valid position...

And given that you were pursuing this from the perspective of the Hebrews migrating from Egypt into modern-day Israel (and Rump Palestine)...

The question regarding the Hebrew's former environs (prior to their migration into Egypt) is every bit as valid as any related to the Exodus, yes?

And, if true, the question still stands.

Where did the Hebrews migrate FROM, when they first entered Egypt, decades or centuries prior to the Exodus?

I genuinely do not remember (if, indeed, this was ever articulated or even strongly implied), so, I asked what struck me as a valid question.

Do you have an answer to that question, by any chance?

 

[Kondor3]

...I only want one thing, peace, and I want that peace for Israel and Palestine!

Have you ever subscribed to a set of borders for both? I've never noticed, and your remark caught my attention, and made me curious.

 

[Alex.]

France’s Socialist-led parliament has passed a symbolic vote to recognize Palestinian statehood, despite staunch objections from Israel. MPs in Britain and Spain have already passed similar motions.


The proposal was passed with 339 votes in favor and 151 against, meaning that it was supported by more than two-thirds of French lawmakers.


Israel immediately responded, saying that the motion would “harm the peace process,” AFP reported.'
French Parliament Votes to Recognize Palestinian State
Good for them

Seems like anything France does is symbolic. They better start thinking about what happened at Waterloo and how their jihadist friends will further wreak havoc on thier society before they take a real vote.

Yeah man, right on...

Those Frenchies better start thinking about what happened at Waterloo....

WTF?!?!

Waterloo Analogy

 

[Vigilante]

They did this because they can't afford the pond scum arabs burning up over 1100 cars each time the French gov't does something these muslim bastards don't like!... PC has come back and bit the Frogs in the ass, and they don't have the balls to FIX IT!

 

[docmauser1]

But not like kurds, eh? Bth., palistanians have a state, recognized by France, Sweden, Spain, England, don't they?

The Kurds probably should have their own state - they've certainly been royally screwed by the Powers. However - at least they have citizenship in a state. The Palestinians lack even that.

How so? The "Palestinian Authority" passport is available to anyone waving a palistanian birth certificate.

What nation are they citizens of?

"Palestinian nation", as we read here from time to time? Palistanabadians? Who cares. Since they issue passports, the name comes with them too.

What about those still stuck in refugee camps in Syria and other nations?

That's their palistanian problem.
The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”
This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”
Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would “absolutely not” be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees.
Neither this definitional status nor U.N. statehood, Abdullah says, would affect the eventual return of refugees to Palestine. “How the issue of the right of return will be solved I don’t know, it’s too early [to say], but it is a sacred right that has to be dealt with and solved [with] the acceptance of all.” He says statehood “will never affect the right of return for Palestinian refugees.”
For years, the world has backed a Palestinian state on the grounds Palestinians are stateless people who deserve a country of their own. And now, a senior Palestinian official has announced once they have received a state, most Palestinians will still be stateless – even those who actually live in “Palestine.”
Moreover, the new state won’t provide these residents with any services: It expects UNRWA – or, more accurately, the American and European taxpayers who provide the bulk of that organization’s funding – to continue providing their schooling, healthcare, welfare allowances, etc.
Indeed, if palistanians don't recognize their own - they hate jews more, than they love their own. And make money on that too.

What are the borders of that nation?

Does anyone care? Palistanians sure, do not. It's pestering jews, that matters.

There's no nation thus no citizenship - just passports.

Plus, palistanian National assembly, plus, palistanian National bank, plus palistanian Ministry of finance, wanna more pluses? hehe
It's pestering jews, that matters.

When they get their nation, they will have to accept the refugees - at least as many as they can. I don't see that refusal going over well in the international community.

Ah, yet another "nation-building" enterprise. Well, in theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they aren't.
As per B. Hamish "The Palestinians and their political leadership bring war and instability to wherever theyreside, be it Jordan, Lebanon or in the very territories Israel recently handed over to them. No one wants them as neighbors because they are too egotistical, hotheaded, selfish and immature o qualify as a responsible nation.
And no one would sign a meaningful agreement with any Palestinian leader because agreements are always broken. Israel learned the hard way, that the PLO's diplomats have no ethics and lie with impunity. They will always be diplomats of a terror organization, never of a nation, because nations must abide by their commitments.
There is no hope of the Palestinians ever honestly electing their leaders.
At best, this ragtag collection of Middle Eastern peoples will accept whatever tyrant proves the most inscrutable and leads their tribe after Arafat.
The Palestinians send their children to their deaths to make media propaganda points. Real nations care about their young. The PLO and its allied Islamic organizations practise child sacrifice under the guise of martyrdom.
The PLO has no morals, national or otherwise. Their sole motivation is to instill hate from one generation to the next.
The PLO has brought nothing but misery to its followers. The Palestinians know nothing of the creation of beauty, engage in no serious scholarship, pass nothing of greatness down the ages. Their legacy is purely of destruction.
The Palestinian leaders and their factotums are totally corrupt, stealing every penny of public money they can lay their hands on. No one seriously accepts that financial aid will actually reach the people. And no one will make a business investment in the Palestinians ... .
There is no Palestinian language.
There is no Palestinian religion.
There is no ancient Palestinian history. There are no world renowned Palestinian artists, scientists, not one Palestinian literary masterpiece, no recognizable culture, no inventions ... nothing that distinguishes Palestinians as a people.
They are neither a unique people, nor a separate people with their own history.
The Palestinians do not deserve a nation because they are not a nation."

 

[Kondor3]

...There is no Palestinian language. There is no Palestinian religion. There is no ancient Palestinian history. There are no world renowned Palestinian artists, scientists, not one Palestinian literary masterpiece, no recognizable culture, no inventions ... nothing that distinguishes Palestinians as a people. They are neither a unique people, nor a separate people with their own history. The Palestinians do not deserve a nation because they are not a nation."

Well, c'mon, now, they are world-class goat-buggerers...

 

[Humanity]

...I only want one thing, peace, and I want that peace for Israel and Palestine!

Have you ever subscribed to a set of borders for both? I've never noticed, and your remark caught my attention, and made me curious.

As we are all well aware, the issues relating to borders is, at best, contentious!

There needs to be negotiation on both sides to find an acceptable solution.

Until there is an acceptable solution I guess I would support the 1967 borders, in line with the UN, the US and most other nations. I would like to see an Israeli withdrawal from occupied territory and all annexed land returned. As part of this I would like to see a demilitarised Palestinian State along with a permanent UN peacekeeping force in place.

If Israel feels that returning occupied territory makes Israel indefensible and the UN Security Council announcing that the 'informal incorporation' through Israeli law is null and having no international legal effect then, I believe, that the UN have a 'legal/moral' obligation to ensure that peace is upheld.

 

[docmauser1]

There needs to be negotiation on both sides to find an acceptable solution.
Until there is an acceptable solution I guess I would support the 1967 borders, in line with the UN, the US and most other nations. I would like to see an Israeli withdrawal from occupied territory and all annexed land returned. As part of this I would like to see a demilitarised Palestinian State along with a permanent UN peacekeeping force in place.

Which precludes any acceptable solution, of course.

If Israel feels that returning occupied territory makes Israel indefensible and the UN Security Council announcing that the 'informal incorporation' through Israeli law is null and having no international legal effect then, I believe, that the UN have a 'legal/moral' obligation to ensure that peace is upheld.

The UN's been running away from any 'legal/moral' obligation to ensure that peace is upheld, of course.
Our honorable humanity is thereby advised not to go full drivel.

 

[docmauser1]

So, I have one question for the Pro-Palestine folks here. What about this thread?:

A question about hamas to the pro pal lovers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

While you are all for the Palestinians, and rail about the 'injustices' wrought upon them by the 'Zionists', what do you think about the injustices that Hamas does to the Gazans?

And for Humanity, I found that you did not participate in the above linked thread at all. I am especially curious on your take.

Are you calling me out here Teddy? ;-)

You know, there are a few people here who post unthinking crap, imho, don't really deserve a response, and certainly not from me. Why should I bother wasting my time responding to copy and paste bandits or those who feel the need to capitalise certain words and phrases time and again...

That's not debate, thats just clashing heads with the 'opposition'!

As you know, I am very much against violence, very much against extremism....

I do not support terrorism and I certainly do not support Hamas!

I do support the Palestinian people however... As I do support the right for Israel to exist and for a homeland for Jews... I may not necessarily agree with WHERE Israel is and can come up with a whole host of reason why, perhaps, Israel should not be where it is, but Israel is there and I support it's right to exist.

It is way overdue for an election for the Palestinians... A change is needed... And I don't even necessarily mean Fatah either! In the same way that a change is need in Israel... The right wing movement in Israel is beginning, imho, to move too far right... As I mentioned in a previous post, this is a road that will lead to the self destruction of Israel...

I don't want that!

I want a two state solution where there can be Israel and Palestine existing and co-existing... Ideally I would like to see a one state solution but Israel would never let that happen, Netanyahu would never let that happen...

I am as much against occupation of the West Bank as I am against Hamas firing rockets into Israel.

There is so much hatred here, on both sides, it actually makes 'debate' pointless...

Ultimately, neither side is right... There needs to be change from Hamas and Israel... Without it this forum will continue to be full of hatred...

When I joined this forum I made it very clear that I was once neutral but could not be neutral any longer...

There can be no neutrality in this 'conflict' but there can be some sensible discussion to try and understand, to try and find a way forward without name calling, without searching back through history books, without getting bogged down in semantics... None of which will ever achieve peace!

Who was there first, who invaded first... Who gives a shit, really! Just how far back do you want to go with this? There are plenty of atrocities that have been carried out through the centuries by more than just the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians, the Catholics.....

It's not about how far back you want to go... It's how far forward you want to go!

My two biggest fears for Israel and the region as a whole are the right wing within Israel and the extremists within Islam.

IS (ISIS, ISL or whatever they are called now) knocking on the door of Israel, the creation of a 'Jewish State', expansionist ideology by Israel, continued oppression and control of Gaza, continuing terrorism by Hamas, inconsequential Fatah.... the list feels almost endless.

I am not a big fan of the UN... But, from what I see, from what I read, perhaps the UN or other 3rd party intervening is the only way forward?

There has to be a solution, a peaceful solution but this solution will not come through the incumbents nor through violence...

I only want one thing, peace, and I want that peace for Israel and Palestine!

[sob-sob]

 

[Phoenall]

So, palistanians can't really claim they don't have a state, can they?

They've always had one, unfortunately most of it is occupied by Zionist invaders...for the moment.

Which does not stop the Palestinians from setting up a government, raising taxes, building homes and providing welfare for their people. It seems they prefer to engage in violence, terrorism and belligerence while mooching of the rest of the world to pay for the terroprism.

What silly comment Phoney....

Did you not read what you were responding to?

"unfortunately most of it is occupied by Zionist invaders"

Not as silly as yours as there are no Zionist invaders, they were invited to settle by the LEGAL LAND OWNERS UNDER CUSTOMARU INTERNATIONAL LAW. The arab muslims don't have that to fall back on do they.

Wow Phoney...

It wasn't my comment Phoney... You see... You DIDN'T read the post you were responding to did you!

AND....

You must be wearing out your keyboard the amount of time you type... COSTUMARY TINTERNATION LOWS!

You repeated it making it your comment and belief, you must be ruining keyboards by the truckload the number of times you are shown to be spouting ISLAMONAZI LIES.

So you repeated that term so when will you produce the evidence of the claim

 

[Humanity]

They've always had one, unfortunately most of it is occupied by Zionist invaders...for the moment.

Which does not stop the Palestinians from setting up a government, raising taxes, building homes and providing welfare for their people. It seems they prefer to engage in violence, terrorism and belligerence while mooching of the rest of the world to pay for the terroprism.

What silly comment Phoney....

Did you not read what you were responding to?

"unfortunately most of it is occupied by Zionist invaders"

Not as silly as yours as there are no Zionist invaders, they were invited to settle by the LEGAL LAND OWNERS UNDER CUSTOMARU INTERNATIONAL LAW. The arab muslims don't have that to fall back on do they.

Wow Phoney...

It wasn't my comment Phoney... You see... You DIDN'T read the post you were responding to did you!

AND....

You must be wearing out your keyboard the amount of time you type... COSTUMARY TINTERNATION LOWS!

You repeated it making it your comment and belief, you must be ruining keyboards by the truckload the number of times you are shown to be spouting ISLAMONAZI LIES.

So you repeated that term so when will you produce the evidence of the claim

 

[Phoenall]

But not like kurds, eh? Bth., palistanians have a state, recognized by France, Sweden, Spain, England, don't they?

The Kurds probably should have their own state - they've certainly been royally screwed by the Powers. However - at least they have citizenship in a state. The Palestinians lack even that.

How so? The "Palestinian Authority" passport is available to anyone waving a palistanian birth certificate.

What nation are they citizens of?

"Palestinian nation", as we read here from time to time? Palistanabadians? Who cares. Since they issue passports, the name comes with them too.

What about those still stuck in refugee camps in Syria and other nations?

That's their palistanian problem.
The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”
This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”
Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would “absolutely not” be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees.
Neither this definitional status nor U.N. statehood, Abdullah says, would affect the eventual return of refugees to Palestine. “How the issue of the right of return will be solved I don’t know, it’s too early [to say], but it is a sacred right that has to be dealt with and solved [with] the acceptance of all.” He says statehood “will never affect the right of return for Palestinian refugees.”
For years, the world has backed a Palestinian state on the grounds Palestinians are stateless people who deserve a country of their own. And now, a senior Palestinian official has announced once they have received a state, most Palestinians will still be stateless – even those who actually live in “Palestine.”
Moreover, the new state won’t provide these residents with any services: It expects UNRWA – or, more accurately, the American and European taxpayers who provide the bulk of that organization’s funding – to continue providing their schooling, healthcare, welfare allowances, etc.
Indeed, if palistanians don't recognize their own - they hate jews more, than they love their own. And make money on that too.

What are the borders of that nation?

There's no nation thus no citizenship - just passports.

When they get their nation, they will have to accept the refugees - at least as many as they can. I don't see that refusal going over well in the international community.

They have their nation, and they have their free determination now all they need is mutually agreed borders with all their neighbours. This means Jordan and Egypt as well as Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Which does not stop the Palestinians from setting up a government, raising taxes, building homes and providing welfare for their people. It seems they prefer to engage in violence, terrorism and belligerence while mooching of the rest of the world to pay for the terroprism.

What silly comment Phoney....

Did you not read what you were responding to?

"unfortunately most of it is occupied by Zionist invaders"

Not as silly as yours as there are no Zionist invaders, they were invited to settle by the LEGAL LAND OWNERS UNDER CUSTOMARU INTERNATIONAL LAW. The arab muslims don't have that to fall back on do they.

Wow Phoney...

It wasn't my comment Phoney... You see... You DIDN'T read the post you were responding to did you!

AND....

You must be wearing out your keyboard the amount of time you type... COSTUMARY TINTERNATION LOWS!

You repeated it making it your comment and belief, you must be ruining keyboards by the truckload the number of times you are shown to be spouting ISLAMONAZI LIES.

So you repeated that term so when will you produce the evidence of the claim

View attachment 34785

All I can say is that only a complete idiot would try and play chess with a pigeon