CDZ Free speech and the protection of vulgar language

[Circe]

When I was in high school we had to sign a document informing us that use of alcohol, drugs, or tobacco and acts deemed unbecoming of a student-athlete on AND off campus could lead to us being removed from any/all athletic teams and other extra-curricular activities representing the school.

We lost a very good high school baseball player one year because he was seen smoking on Main Street by our Athletics Director over Christmas Break.

My point is... a lot will depend on what sort of Student Code or other agreements she may have signed or verbally agreed to.

People should NEVER sign that kind of thing! They tried that on at my daughter's school forever ago --- some sort of idiocy about the "parent's commitment" to something or other. Of course I didn't do any such thing. This is like that brainwashing where business somehow think it's a GOOD idea to make their employees go into a "systemic racist" class where they have to kiss black people's feet and sob and apologize fulsomely. Yeah, I'll just leap to cooperate with that kind of communist atrocity, sure. IMO, people should never, never allow that kind of coercion. Just quit. I would never have signed such a thing as a student! What are they thinking of?

Oh, control, control, control, control. This sort of training is what led to everyone accepting these lockdowns-maskings-no assembly, etc.
They train us from childhood to accept terrible controls so no one even hopes to be free anymore.

 

[Donald H]

Oh, control, control, control, control. This sort of training is what led to everyone accepting these lockdowns-maskings-no assembly, etc.
They train us from childhood to accept terrible controls so no one even hopes to be free anymore.

You're right on the basic premise and so think about it now. You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie. You're told that you need to work hard and you will prosper, but the popultation has been deprived of the tools and ability to break into the club that is the very wealthy and prosperous.

You're taught that to demand socially acceptable and fair treatment as a citizen, you're promoting socialism or even communism.

Canada is #1 in quality of life in the world because we have had the motivation to step up and demand socially responsible government. That seems to make us socialists or communists in the eyes of Americans, and you've hit on the reason you believe that!

 

[Likkmee]

 

[Leo123]

You're right on the basic premise and so think about it now. You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie. You're told that you need to work hard and you will prosper, but the popultation has been deprived of the tools and ability to break into the club that is the very wealthy and prosperous.

You're taught that to demand socially acceptable and fair treatment as a citizen, you're promoting socialism or even communism.

Canada is #1 in quality of life in the world because we have had the motivation to step up and demand socially responsible government. That seems to make us socialists or communists in the eyes of Americans, and you've hit on the reason you believe that!

How does capitalism deprive the working class? America is home to some of the richest people who started out working at menial jobs and ended up quite wealthy. We promote equality of opportunity not 'socially acceptable and fair treatment' and equal outcomes. You see, when one applies their intellect they realize that equality of outcome limites opportunity to for career and monetary gain. The POPULATION generally has all the 'tools' at their disposal to work and better themselves but it takes work, not sitting on your rear end and expecting government handouts or expecting someone else to carry your weight. Canada even tried to pass legislation regulating what one may call another. Thankfully one of your citizens Jordan Peterson (famous psychologist) put his butt on the line and refused to catch the 'socially acceptable' government Clown-Car.

BTW.....Here is an account of living in Canada.
"Why Moving To Canada Might Be A Bad Idea"

On first sight, property prices seem reasonable, in certain parts of Canada at least. Wait! Wait until you pay property tax, house insurance, electricity and the rest of the bills. Do you know that Satellite Internet is your only choice for Internet service when you live outside of town and is very expensive? Do you know that our cell phone bills are some of the highest in the world?
What about the big cities, like Vancouver? Vancouver house prices are horrendous and only affordable for Chinese immigrants. Canada has become a materialistic society and to show off material objects are of big importance for many. It still might be the land of plenty, but not necessarily the land of happiness. It often seems to me that people are rushing and looking for money, but they are not living.

Why Moving To Canada Might Be A Bad Idea - Backcountry Canada Travel

Canada, the country of your dream is calling and you’re ready for a new start. Should you be concerned about moving to Canada? Will your expectations be met

backcountrycanadatravel.com

 

[Donald H]

How does capitalism deprive the working class? America is home to some of the richest people who started out working at menial jobs and ended up quite wealthy. We promote equality of opportunity not 'socially acceptable and fair treatment' and equal outcomes.

I've deleted most of your post because it's too much to address at one time. I'm not avoiding answering any of it.

Capitalism comes in many different forms and the American version deprives the working class. Over a long period of time, many mechanisms have been put into place that have created huge income inequality. One example would be the socalled 'right to work' states, but far from being limited to that. Income inequality that is unequalled in any of the world's modern democracies is the proof.

Some of the richest people in other democracies, started out working at low paying menial jobs. So what?

Equality of opportunity is the same thing as socially acceptable and fair treatment. Equal outcomes is not even remotely applicable to the discussion and is not dictated in any democracy.

Equal outcomes, to some limited extent is ordered to be the necessity in China. It deserves a separate conversation and it doesn't apply in this one.

Your ideology is firmly established and you won't be swayed by me. It's entirely up to Americans on whether they want to catch up with the world's countries that are the leaders on quality of life.
If you don't care, don't waste my time with needing to explain how your style of capitalism is slanted to enriching the wealthy even more, at the expense of the working class.

 

[Leo123]

I've deleted most of your post because it's too much to address at one time. I'm not avoiding answering any of it.

Capitalism comes in many different forms and the American version deprives the working class. Over a long period of time, many mechanisms have been put into place that have created huge income inequality. One example would be the socalled 'right to work' states, but far from being limited to that. Income inequality that is unequalled in any of the world's modern democracies is the proof.

Some of the richest people in other democracies, started out working at low paying menial jobs. So what?

Equality of opportunity is the same thing as socially acceptable and fair treatment. Equal outcomes is not even remotely applicable to the discussion and is not dictated in any democracy.

Equal outcomes, to some limited extent is ordered to be the necessity in China. It deserves a separate conversation and it doesn't apply in this one.

Your ideology is firmly established and you won't be swayed by me. It's entirely up to Americans on whether they want to catch up with the world's countries that are the leaders on quality of life.
If you don't care, don't waste my time with needing to explain how your style of capitalism is slanted to enriching the wealthy even more, at the expense of the working class.

I disagree, equality of opportunity has nothing to do with what me, you or anyone thinks what 'socially acceptable should be. It is in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence that we are given the basic right to pursue happiness. It does not delineate what 'socially acceptable' happiness is or what the outcome should be. Once one starts to define someone else's right to pursue their own happiness there is no longer equal opportunity. Equal opportunity also means the right to excel above others competitively.

This does not mean that those on the losing end of the stick need stay stuck in the mud either. Competition sharpens one's abilities and, even in loss or defeat, in America, it is still possible to rise above the fray. Lastly, what is 'socially acceptable' has, in American, always been based on agreed upon morals and values not government legislation or what the contemporary media thinks it should be.

It could be that, after all this writing, you and I may think alike however we may disagree on the term 'socially acceptable'

 

[Circe]

You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie. You're told that you need to work hard and you will prosper, but the popultation has been deprived of the tools and ability to break into the club that is the very wealthy and prosperous.

Lord! You are wildly wrong there: *I* certainly wasn't deprived of any of the above --- I suspect you are making some assumptions that are not true. If you are poor, that doesn't mean the rest of us are. I mean, hey, we ARE Americans. We're not really likely to be poor.

You're taught that to demand socially acceptable and fair treatment as a citizen, you're promoting socialism or even communism.

I expect socially acceptable and fair treatment as a citizen, and I get it, too. I very definitely am NOT promoting socialism and communism! People who are doing that need to behave better, that is their whole problem.

Canada is #1 in quality of life in the world because we have had the motivation to step up and demand socially responsible government. That seems to make us socialists or communists in the eyes of Americans, and you've hit on the reason you believe that!

Gracious, I don't think anything of the sort. I don't think of Canada at all! Are you under the impression that Americans think a lot (or at all) about CANADA?? You are very mistaken. Where is Canada, anyway? Is it that country just south of Slovenia?

No, I think that's Croatia. . . . . .

 

[HenryBHough]

Lenny Bruce for president!

 

[Donald H]

Gracious, I don't think anything of the sort. I don't think of Canada at all! Are you under the impression that Americans think a lot (or at all) about CANADA?? You are very mistaken. Where is Canada, anyway? Is it that country just south of Slovenia?

No, I think that's Croatia. . . . . .

I know. Many Americans aren't even aware there is a world outside of their borders and so are blissfully happy with getting ripped off by their system.

One would think that all Americans who post on this board are all the wealthy ones, but we know that's not true don't we.

 

[K9Buck]

...we had to sign a document informing us that ...acts deemed unbecoming of a student-athlete on AND off campus could lead to us being removed

That seems to be a slippery slope, particularly for a GOVERNMENT school, as is the University of Tennessee.

Could a student also be canceled for saying "Make America great again!"?

Should a public school's code of conduct supersede a student's constitutional rights to free speech?

I guess those are questions for legal scholars above my pay-grade.

 

[K9Buck]

While in Canada, we just allow most of that sh-t to go unnoticed, for the sake of betterment of our country.

Not accurate.

Anti-gay activist ordered to pay $55,000 to B.C. trans candidate in fight over hateful flyer

Oger said that she had to explain to her two children that "somebody hates me because of who I am."

vancouversun.com

 

[K9Buck]

You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie.

If you oppose capitalism, why do you continue to live in a capitalist society? Why not move to the numerous non-capitalist societies that exist in the world?

 

[K9Buck]

Lord! You are wildly wrong there...

This site attracts plenty of radicals and the poster to whom you are responding definitely fits that category.

 

[Kilroy2]

If I was sitting on the court then I would dismiss this case. Free speech is a little bit different than a teen using vulgar language. Defamation cases are heard in court all the time. It is not protected under free speech as anything goes as long as they say it. Lying in court is perjury and lying to police or the FBI can cause legal issues. Business regulate how employees should conduct business and vulgar language used when conduction business with clients and customers would result in dismissal. Ultimately the constitution is talking about something a little bit different when it defines it in a amendment.

If someone gets hurt in a crowded location because someone else yelled fire when there is no fire can seek legal remedy. So it does boil down to does the School have the right to dismiss this girl in a school sponsor activity. The girl appears to be ranting in a public forum for all to see. If it was just between a couple of friends then yeah I would say no big deal. She went public with it and does reflect on the school as she was a member of the cheer team. In a public forum the school has to respond.

How many people in sports or entertainment have been fired because of what they said. The landscape is littered with casualties.

If this was the first incident with this person, then yeah I would say the school should have just warned her (or a few days suspension) to be more careful on how she presents herself to the public. If she had other incidents, then 3 strikes and your out.

Is social media to blame, well yeah it does present a platform but in the end it is the person who uses it that is the cause.

 

[Donald H]

You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie.

If you oppose capitalism, why do you continue to live in a capitalist society? Why not move to the numerous non-capitalist societies that exist in the world?

Why would anyone think I oppose capitalism? I fully support capitalism within a democracy in which government accepts it's responsibility for the welfare of all of its citizens.

But it's probably necessary to start a conversation on China's system that is flourishing so well for its 1 1 1/2 people. Their system is very likely the only system that can provide for huge populations in this 21st. century. The reason being, there are only enough resources in our modern world for the approaching 10 billion population of the near future if the wealth is shared.

China has elevated hundreds of millions of it's people up out of poverty and the people are peaceful and grateful for the opportunity their country is providing. Contrast this with the US which worships income inequality as their god and which deprives the large majority of it's people the wealth and quality of life that's provided by the world's leading democracies.

Can the world's leading democracies maintain a democratic country and prevent greed from taking control as is the pattern in America. I think that eventually, greed will gain control and create the same failed situation as is the present US.

With careful nurturing of the communist system in China, there's nothing stopping China from continuing on throughout the 21st. century.

Not even war from an outside aggressor can do irreparable harm to a huge nuclear power.

Opinions?

 

[AZrailwhale]

A Cheerleader’s Vulgar Message Prompts a First Amendment Showdown (msn.com)

A fitting early case that the Trump court will have to decide if they want to hear the case. Can a school punish students when they use social media to rant using vulgar language about school stuff? Specifically the school, cheer, softball and other things. The girl was taken off the cheer squad. Appeals have been made and the Supreme court will get the case.

The student will be represented by the ACL which will argue for her first amendment rights in regards to free speech. The school cannot remove her from the cheer squad because of what she says off campus. Yet if she says in on campus then they can. A line in the sand.

The school will try to enforce their decision to have the right to remove her the cheer squad based on what she posted even if it was off campus when she did it. Generally can the school discipline students from what they say away from school.

I have to say that I am torn between the two. Someone on the cheer squad who so easily post vulgar language and hand signs on social media. Probably no the best thing to do for all to see.

yet I do respect peoples rights to say what is in their heart. I would say that she was just venting and used social media.

Still such language can be repeated and spread by others. Creating situations in the school environment like school bullying and encouraging others to be vulgar for trivial things.

I am going to go with the school on this one. A message should be sent to avoid using social media to say things that you cannot take back. It is out there for all to see. The larger issue is common sense. It seems social media makes people lose self control. They are angry and they can post it for all to see. As a parent I would tell her that it was her mistake and to learn from it. That is just my opinion.

I feel just the opposite. Schools should only be able to discipline students for actions taken on school grounds, or while under school control like on field trips. Anything a student does, especially protected speech, while not under the direct authority of the school should be exempt from school control.

 

[Donald H]

A Cheerleader’s Vulgar Message Prompts a First Amendment Showdown (msn.com)

A fitting early case that the Trump court will have to decide if they want to hear the case. Can a school punish students when they use social media to rant using vulgar language about school stuff? Specifically the school, cheer, softball and other things. The girl was taken off the cheer squad. Appeals have been made and the Supreme court will get the case.

The student will be represented by the ACL which will argue for her first amendment rights in regards to free speech. The school cannot remove her from the cheer squad because of what she says off campus. Yet if she says in on campus then they can. A line in the sand.

The school will try to enforce their decision to have the right to remove her the cheer squad based on what she posted even if it was off campus when she did it. Generally can the school discipline students from what they say away from school.

I have to say that I am torn between the two. Someone on the cheer squad who so easily post vulgar language and hand signs on social media. Probably no the best thing to do for all to see.

yet I do respect peoples rights to say what is in their heart. I would say that she was just venting and used social media.

Still such language can be repeated and spread by others. Creating situations in the school environment like school bullying and encouraging others to be vulgar for trivial things.

I am going to go with the school on this one. A message should be sent to avoid using social media to say things that you cannot take back. It is out there for all to see. The larger issue is common sense. It seems social media makes people lose self control. They are angry and they can post it for all to see. As a parent I would tell her that it was her mistake and to learn from it. That is just my opinion.

I feel just the opposite. Schools should only be able to discipline students for actions taken on school grounds, or while under school control like on field trips. Anything a student does, especially protected speech, while not under the direct authority of the school should be exempt from school control.

China doesn't allow simple situations to get out of control. Students behave in a responsible and socially responsible manner or they just find they don't fit in with a progressive society that's been created by government.

Freedom doesn't include allowing abuses of the system that negatively influences the common good. Abuses of the acceptable norms only leads to violence in the streets and revolution!

 

[AZrailwhale]

You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie.

If you oppose capitalism, why do you continue to live in a capitalist society? Why not move to the numerous non-capitalist societies that exist in the world?

Because he or she wants all the benefits of a capitalist system while denouncing them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You're trained from childhood to accept the American way of greedy capitalism which deprives the working class of their piece of the pie.

If you oppose capitalism, why do you continue to live in a capitalist society? Why not move to the numerous non-capitalist societies that exist in the world?

Why would anyone think I oppose capitalism? I fully support capitalism within a democracy in which government accepts it's responsibility for the welfare of all of its citizens.

But it's probably necessary to start a conversation on China's system that is flourishing so well for its 1 1 1/2 people. Their system is very likely the only system that can provide for huge populations in this 21st. century. The reason being, there are only enough resources in our modern world for the approaching 10 billion population of the near future if the wealth is shared.

China has elevated hundreds of millions of it's people up out of poverty and the people are peaceful and grateful for the opportunity their country is providing. Contrast this with the US which worships income inequality as their god and which deprives the large majority of it's people the wealth and quality of life that's provided by the world's leading democracies.

Can the world's leading democracies maintain a democratic country and prevent greed from taking control as is the pattern in America. I think that eventually, greed will gain control and create the same failed situation as is the present US.

With careful nurturing of the communist system in China, there's nothing stopping China from continuing on throughout the 21st. century.

Not even war from an outside aggressor can do irreparable harm to a huge nuclear power.

Opinions?

China isn't "flourishing" because of communism, it's doing so because of capitalism that benefits the ruling class and it's members. In case you haven't noticed it, The PRC is a tyranny where all power is vested in the government and you can't do something as simple as move your residence without permission. There is no free speech, freedom of association or any rights before a court.

 

[AZrailwhale]

A Cheerleader’s Vulgar Message Prompts a First Amendment Showdown (msn.com)

A fitting early case that the Trump court will have to decide if they want to hear the case. Can a school punish students when they use social media to rant using vulgar language about school stuff? Specifically the school, cheer, softball and other things. The girl was taken off the cheer squad. Appeals have been made and the Supreme court will get the case.

The student will be represented by the ACL which will argue for her first amendment rights in regards to free speech. The school cannot remove her from the cheer squad because of what she says off campus. Yet if she says in on campus then they can. A line in the sand.

The school will try to enforce their decision to have the right to remove her the cheer squad based on what she posted even if it was off campus when she did it. Generally can the school discipline students from what they say away from school.

I have to say that I am torn between the two. Someone on the cheer squad who so easily post vulgar language and hand signs on social media. Probably no the best thing to do for all to see.

yet I do respect peoples rights to say what is in their heart. I would say that she was just venting and used social media.

Still such language can be repeated and spread by others. Creating situations in the school environment like school bullying and encouraging others to be vulgar for trivial things.

I am going to go with the school on this one. A message should be sent to avoid using social media to say things that you cannot take back. It is out there for all to see. The larger issue is common sense. It seems social media makes people lose self control. They are angry and they can post it for all to see. As a parent I would tell her that it was her mistake and to learn from it. That is just my opinion.

I feel just the opposite. Schools should only be able to discipline students for actions taken on school grounds, or while under school control like on field trips. Anything a student does, especially protected speech, while not under the direct authority of the school should be exempt from school control.

China doesn't allow simple situations to get out of control. Students behave in a responsible and socially responsible manner or they just find they don't fit in with a progressive society that's been created by government.

Freedom doesn't include allowing abuses of the system that negatively influences the common good. Abuses of the acceptable norms only leads to violence in the streets and revolution!

Perhaps you should move to the PRC, then you could live under their system and be happy. Don't try to change the system that the vast majority of Americans are happy with. I'm sure the PRC would love t have you as a citizen.