Free higher educaton is investment in our future as a nation.

[Dragon]

Amazing. Well, no -- commonplace and unsurprising. But it should be surprising. It's pathetic that it's unsurprising.

This reminds me of the discussion about health care reform. Raise that issue and everyone on the right starts spouting theory as to why it won't work or can't be done or it would ruin the quality of our health care or result in a tyranny or whatever. Meanwhile, many of us on the left are pointing out, "But you know, universal health care has BEEN DONE BEFORE. You don't have to just GUESS! You can look at how they do things in every other advanced country in the WORLD! Check out how it's done in France, England, Germany, Canada, Japan -- each of these systems is somewhat different, and each has its pluses and minuses, but they're all better than the way we do things here. Don't just toss theory around, check out the real world."

This is exactly the same. Free universal higher education? Oh, too expensive! Oh, who's going to pay for it! Oh, think of all the lazy slackers it will attract!

As with medicine, every advanced nation in the world has subsidized and, if not entirely free, at least dramatically less expensive higher education than we do. Do a search for "Education in France" or "Education in Germany" or "Education in Japan" and explore how it's done in the real world.

Of course you won't do this. The right is not fact-based.

 

[Toro]

FREE HIGHER EDUCATON IS INVESTMENT IN OUR FUTURE AS A NATION.


College education or trade school should be free for high school graduates with a desire to go to school. Who want to become teachers, doctors, nurses and medical technicians, farmers and for future farmers who are our life line. Even under Saddam primary education was mandatory and higher education free and the took care of his military and families with land allotments and other benefits for life. But we shot that all to hell with our invasion to force democracy down their throats and take the oil.
We are forcing democracy down the throats of other nations to give them more freedom but democracy takes much of our freedom away.
Investing in our children is a benefit for us all and our nation’s future. A generous supply of doctors, nurses and other medical services will bring down the cost of medical care and provide good medical care. Our future depends on our children. We need to bring back Head Start, CETA, Job Corp, etc. This is not the time to cut taxes, cut regulation and cut Government spending. These are the things that got us in this recession in the first place. More people trained to work means more Government revenue and more money for government to re-invest in our nation. GOP congress is hell bent on destroying this country at any cost.
We need to make peace with our enemies and not war. Jesus said; “Be peaceable with all men.” and we must keep our friends close and our enemies even closer.
To invest in the future of this nation we all must pitch in. this is not the time to cut Government spending, cut taxes or cut regulation.

We should not have free higher eduction. That is a bad idea because it represents a regressive transfer of wealth from the poor economic classes to the richer. Instead, the higher level of education, the more one should pay.

The reason for this is because one is more likely to have higher earnings with higher education, and thus is a beneficiary of the education system. Thus, because they benefit on average more than society in general, they should pay more.

 

[Dragon]

We should not have free higher eduction. That is a bad idea because it represents a regressive transfer of wealth from the poor economic classes to the richer. Instead, the higher level of education, the more one should pay.

The reason for this is because one is more likely to have higher earnings with higher education, and thus is a beneficiary of the education system. Thus, because they benefit on average more than society in general, they should pay more.

LOL.

Progressivity in taxation, etc. is based on what one earns now, not what one may earn in the future.

Free education would open that opportunity for all academically-capable people, regardless of wealth. In that sense, it is inherently progressive -- at least in any way that doesn't invoke temporal paradox.

 

[Againsheila]

Once upon a time, you could get a job out of high school that would provide a living wage for you and your family. Since that is no longer possible, we need to either raise the mw so that people can afford to pay for their own college, or pay for it for them. The alternative is a 3rd world nation...of course, that's pretty much what the rich want anyway....which is why the middle class is declining.

Explain how the alternative is a third world nation.

No more bell curve, small middle class, more poor....3rd world nation

 

[uscitizen]

So we should get rid of all public education? After all, getting it free doesn't teach them that it's worth having.

That would be one extreme, which I do not agree with.
Provide them with college sponsored jobs to help them work their way thru college or trade school.

I have no problems with that. Currently they have no such programs and it's impossible for someone on mw to work their way through college.

A couple of the smaller colleges here in KY have those programs for those with finiancial issues.
They work in the caffeteria, library, maintenance, etc.
Berea College is one.

 

[uscitizen]

Once upon a time, you could get a job out of high school that would provide a living wage for you and your family. Since that is no longer possible, we need to either raise the mw so that people can afford to pay for their own college, or pay for it for them. The alternative is a 3rd world nation...of course, that's pretty much what the rich want anyway....which is why the middle class is declining.

Explain how the alternative is a third world nation.

No more bell curve, small middle class, more poor....3rd world nation

Yep we be going down. The only question is how far.

I predicted this and was ridiculed for it by virtually all the right wingers.

Just gonna be a little adjustment they said, over in 6 months they said...

Now my prediction is being spoken by the eggspurts.

And virtually none of the experts or politicians have the balls to speak the truth about the future outlook.
Well those who understand, the fools still say tax cuts or more taxes or whatever will fix things.
Bullshit! It is buckle down and overhaul our ways of doing business and thinking.
The longer we wait the worse it will be.

 

[Toro]

We should not have free higher eduction. That is a bad idea because it represents a regressive transfer of wealth from the poor economic classes to the richer. Instead, the higher level of education, the more one should pay.

The reason for this is because one is more likely to have higher earnings with higher education, and thus is a beneficiary of the education system. Thus, because they benefit on average more than society in general, they should pay more.

LOL.

Progressivity in taxation, etc. is based on what one earns now, not what one may earn in the future.

Free education would open that opportunity for all academically-capable people, regardless of wealth. In that sense, it is inherently progressive -- at least in any way that doesn't invoke temporal paradox.

There is a strong correlation between education and earnings. The higher your education, the more you make. There is also a correlation between how much your parents make and whether you get a post-secondary education.

Free post secondary education for all is a terrible idea because it subsidizes those with the means to pay. It is a transfer of wealth to the middle and upper classes. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone who makes $1,000,000 a year on Wall Street - and who is there in big part because of his education - should pay zero for his education.

For those without the means, there should be loans, grants and scholarships.

Or, you are given a bill for your entire education once you graduate, and the more you earn over time, the more you pay back.

 

[Wiseacre]

you don't remember the steel factories? The mills? The textile factories? The television factories? Washers? Dryers? Ovens? All the things that used to be made in the good old us of a, and those factories paid a living wage.

Btw, when you graduated from highschool mw had the highest spending power in history. It was, in effect, a living wage. You could have your own apartment and go to college part time back then, something that can't be done on mw today.

are you freakin' kidding me? Lol, mw in 1966 was about $1.50 an hour, you think anybody had their own apartment and went to school on that?

Yeah, i remember those factories, you didn't start at a "living wage" at those places, and it was a bitch getting in the door. You had to know somebody, otherwise forget it.

in 1968, my brother worked a mw job, paid for his own apart, bought a car and took classes at the community college part time. Yeah, think people had their own apartments and went to school on that, i knew several of them.

no. Way. In. Hell.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Once upon a time, you could get a job out of high school that would provide a living wage for you and your family. Since that is no longer possible, we need to either raise the mw so that people can afford to pay for their own college, or pay for it for them. The alternative is a 3rd world nation...of course, that's pretty much what the rich want anyway....which is why the middle class is declining.

Explain how the alternative is a third world nation.

No more bell curve, small middle class, more poor....3rd world nation

You're saying if more people don't go to college we're going to become a third world nation? I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

There is a strong correlation between education and earnings. The higher your education, the more you make. There is also a correlation between how much your parents make and whether you get a post-secondary education.

Free post secondary education for all is a terrible idea because it subsidizes those with the means to pay. It is a transfer of wealth to the middle and upper classes. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone who makes $1,000,000 a year on Wall Street - and who is there in big part because of his education - should pay zero for his education.

For those without the means, there should be loans, grants and scholarships.

Or, you are given a bill for your entire education once you graduate, and the more you earn over time, the more you pay back.

The state of Georgia actually has free college education for state residents who maintain at least a 3.0 GPA. It's paid for by the state lottery. It was started back in the 90s by then Governor Zell Miller.

 

[Euro]

I believe we should model our education program after some in Europe. On entering high school students are pointed to different goals IAW their aptitude and abilities. Some are tracked to University and some or tracked to trades. That doesn't stop someone who is tracked to a trade from attending University, but only if their high school work justifies it. The tendency for such a high proportion of high school graduates going to college in the US waters down the value and virtually requires college for even basic jobs.

In europe you can choose to start at trade school when you’re 15 years old, then you choose between trade school or theoretical high school. So then you go straighe from middle school to trade school and then start working at 17 years old.
Trade school normally takes 2 years and they can start working when they are 17. (e.g. plumber,electrician,carpenter).

Theoretical high school takes 3 years. Then the students are better prepared for higher education and can take a bachelor in 3 years instead of 4 years, because high school is more theoretical and only meant to prepare for higher education not trade school.

That way they can take a bachelor in 3 years which saves money. Here most colleges are government run and free, but that’s mostly the proficiencies that a society really needs like:
teachers,physicians,engineers,language,science,economy,nursing,psychology,law,IT+ more.

Proficiencies that are not really important to the society are usually private run e.g. marketings,sales,advertising,real estate,film,fashion. Things that just means removing money without creating anything is not something that the government sposors. School money for those proficiencies is usually about 10.000$ a year.
That way the government invests in a smart way by not educating Donald Trumps on their cost. (Tax the properties that Trump owns and let that finance education for the people)

This system works quite well for the scandinavian countries.

 

[Rozman]

I totally agree...

What should also be free is....

Housing,Clothes,electricity,telephone,cable TV,Internet connection,water,health care,drugs,liquor....
I think that we are on to something here....

Great idea.....

This system works quite well for the scandinavian countries.

Yup,Let's copy Greece while we are at it...or Maybe Italy...
I love the people who are so envious of the European way of life...

 

[likeabird03]

Our government will buckle under the weight of bloated education costs, the same way it is under medicare. Already the govt involvement in higher education has caused costs to rise at three times the rate of inflation. In the event govt fully funds education, the real costs will end up increasing faster and faster.

Exactly. Student loan debt has now topped $1 trillion. It's the next bubble to burst. The increase in defaults are already beginning.

I say let the ivory tower fall - no bailouts!