France: Terror Attack

[bianco]

the West including France shouldn't cower or back down , if they do then they turn themselves into 'dhimmis' Bianco .

'Free speech'...they [allegedly left-wing] write whatever they like...draw whatever they like...vile religious hatred of the Koran, Mohammed, the Holy Bible, Jesus etc, and all the sexual stuff...too vile for a female Fox News host to discuss/display, even the 'mild content'.

In doing that there are consequences...as they've found out more than once.
Where I come from they'd be called "slow-learners".

Did they not see what happened in Denmark, and when 'half' of Europe was burnt down?

The lovely Brigitte was not allowed free speech...they got the cops and the courts onto her.

Brigitte Bardot faces jail in Muslim race-hate row Daily Mail Online

Brigitte Bardot faces jail in Muslim race-hate row

Brigitte Bardot is facing two months in prison for allegedly inciting racial hatred against Muslims.
The French movie legend turned animal rights activist is being prosecuted for writing an open letter complaining about the alleged cruelty of Muslims towards sheep during their annual Eid-el-Kebir festival.
In the letter addressed to president Nicolas Sarkozy, she wrote: "We are fed up with being led by the nose by this entire population who are destroying us and our way of life."

 

[Vikrant]

The reports I heard also emphasized how cool, calm and "professional" they were, as if well trained.

I do not think they were that cool and calm. I certainly do not think they had any military grade training. They had terrorist grade training. They did very well against unarmed people. But they did not do so well against the armed police.

Even in the video (where they executed an unarmed policeman) if the policeman was armed with a rifle, he could have taken out both of them from a prone position.

 

[Coyote]

The reports I heard also emphasized how cool, calm and "professional" they were, as if well trained.

I do not think they were that cool and calm. I certainly do not think they had any military grade training. They had terrorist grade training. They did very well against unarmed people. But they did not do so well against the armed police.

Even in the video (where they executed an unarmed policeman) if the policeman was armed with a rifle, he could have taken out both of them from a prone position.

These were what I heard, and by "professional" - I meant formal terrorist training - and I'm not sure, given events, that that is less than "professional" They knew what they were doing. They had training.

Muslim Community In France Mourns Mass Shooting Victims NPR

Wednesday's shooting raised a number of specific concerns.

The attackers appeared to be sophisticated and extremely well-organized. The magazine often has few staffers at the office, but the attackers arrived as a weekly editorial meeting was taking place and a large number of workers were present.

Based on cellphone video footage, security analysts said the assailants were well-trained and knew how to use their automatic rifles. The attackers also had a well-planned getaway and are still on the loose. If they hold French passports, they are able to move freely throughout Europe.

Paris shooting Gunmen likely military trained - World The Star Online

PARIS: The calm, cold determination and deadly efficiency of the gunmen who attacked a French satirical newspaper on Wednesday, leaving 12 people dead, has led police to believe they received military-style training.

Images of the attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices, taken on cellphones, show a carefully planned and professional operation, said a former bodyguard and policeman, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“It is obvious from the way they hold their guns and proceed calmly, coldly. They certainly received some kind of military training,” said another police officer.

“They weren’t acting on the spur of the moment.”

In particular, he pointed to the way they held their Kalashnikov rifles close to their bodies, firing off shot by shot instead of a burst of gunfire, saying this showed they knew how to use the weapon.

The former bodyguard said: “The most striking thing is their cold-bloodedness. They were trained in Syria, in Iraq or elsewhere. Maybe even in France but one thing is sure: they were trained.”

Another sign of the killers’ sang-froid was seen as they struggled to find their target, first stopping at the wrong address.

“They didn’t lose it and start firing. They kept on to the headquarters of Charlie Hebdo.”

 

[Coyote]

Muslim Community In France Mourns Mass Shooting Victims
Madjid Messaoudene is a city council member from Saint Denis, a primarily Muslim suburb of Paris. He talks with Renee Montagne about his relationship with two Charlie Hebdo staffers.

 

[Coyote]

I thought this article made some interesting points. Vikrant, this is your thread and I don't want to derail it but it's the most level headed thread on this event and I think the points are pertinent because free speech is at the heart of this event. I would be curious about your thoughts here.

Why You're Not Seeing Those 'Charlie Hebdo' Cartoons

Wednesday's attack at the Paris office of the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo is thought to have been the work of killers who believe cartoons can be so offensive that they justified the murder of 12 people.


News organizations and people around the world obviously believe the opposite — that no one deserves to die just because he's rude, crude or otherwise obnoxious. Free speech includes the right to be offensive.

.....
But just because offensive images are part of a story does not mean a news organization must publish or post them with its news reports.

Free speech is far from a universal right or even value in most of the world. I think the US is the staunchest advocate of that right protecting even offensive free speech - whether it's the right of the Westboro Baptists to picket military funerals, the KKK and Neo-Nazi's to march through a town or the right of artists, writers, to put out offensive religious imagery. It's their right to do it and their right to choose to excersize restraint and sensitivity. No one has the right to force them to shut down either through violence or draconian laws.

Free speech, and an independent free media is under attack all over the world. 2014 topped the list for highest number of journalists jailed or killed around the world. Prior to that 2013 held the record. That's a dismal trend for journalism around the world.

Now, you don't have just state actors muzzling journalists but independent actors using terrorism and gangster-style violence to terrify journalists into stopping. That's not good for the world at large and everyone needs to stand up and recognize several things.

Free speech means a person has a right to say what they want (within certain limits, for instance you can't incite riots or mob violence, and there are laws on porn etc) - even if offensive to some people or groups. Once you start restricting that right to exclude what some call "offensive" you tread a fine line: who determines what is offensive? What happens when *your view* becomes offensive to someone with a different ideology?

Muzzling free speech because it's offensive drives it underground and gives it a tacit "legitimacy" to it's adherents. When somewthing is underground, it's difficult to fight it in the open. Offensive opinions that can't be tolerated need to be openly challanged - not by violence, not by draconian laws but by the power of the pen, facts, and changing public opinion - OR - as this article states, choosing not to publish offensive material. But it needs to be a free choice - not a choice coerced by threats of violence.

There are civilized ways of combating racism, extremism in free speech - and that is through peaceful public demonstrations, legal channels in the courts, or countering those opinions with the pen. Encouraging violence and terrorisnm is not one of those civilized ways and those who are civilized recognize it, even when they are deeply offended. Terrorists and extremists do not.

Many Muslim majority countries are at a cross-roads here. Religion still forms a central part of their lives and communities. Education levels are far from uniform as is wealth and political stability. I think many Muslims feel their religion is under attack from the "West" on one side and extremists on the other and their culture is in a clash with western culture making it easy for extremism to make inroads. The central tenets of western culture: individual freedoms, free speech, freedom to worship what ever way you wish - are just begining to develop in many parts of the world.

What we saw here was an act of extremism, aimed at muzzling free speech through terrorism that can not be tolerated. I was glad to see, around the world - much condemnation but I wonder what this bodes for the future? How will such attacks be prevented? What of those who have gone to fight and returned - how will you differentiate trained radicals from disenchanted returnees? What will be the impact on the innocent Muslims in France? How will France reconcile an open society with terrorism?

 

[Vikrant]

Coyote,

Of course regarding the depth of the training of the terrorists, we have to accept what professionals say. If they say terrorists were well trained then they were well trained. I just had one footage to analyze their skills so I could very well be off. Having said that, it is not a good idea to compliment terrorists even objectively because terrorist sympathizers will get off on that. This may even encourage sympathizers to go to the next level and become terrorists.

I agree with you on free speech, pretty much. I think terrorists should not be allowed to intimidate media but intimidation has already begun and more and more newspapers and magazines are reluctant to say anything about Islam. I personally do not like disrespecting other people's religion because I think it is not right. However, that is my personal choice and I think others have right to engage in criticism of an ideology they think warrants criticism.

The thing that concerns me about Islamists is that they have ruined it not just for innocent Muslims but anyone who can be mistaken for a Muslim like myself. After 911, two men were killed in retaliatory attacks by two racist men who thought the victims were Muslims but as we know now, neither of the victims were Muslims; one was a Sikh and another a Coptic Christian.

Any person with common sense would know that something is going to give. More and more people are hardening their stance against Islam. Of course, terror tragedies give ammunition to racist people to advance their agenda but that is whole another issue. Terrorists have survived so far because they have supporters among some western governments. This will be a critical factor in determining what the future holds for terrorists.

 

[Mindful]

The siege in a kosher shop in Paris proves why Israel needs to exist.

There are two questions we really need to consider at such a time. The first is, ‘Why do they always target the Jews?’. In 2008 when Mumbai was attacked, the Islamic terrorists rampaged through that great Indian city. But they specially sought out the tiny Chabad house in Mumbai and there they slaughtered the young rabbi and his wife. It is the same story everywhere. And of course the sort of people who gun down cartoonists for exercising their right to free expression will be the same people who will target Jews.

The second question is this: How dare so many Europeans still wonder why Israel needs to exist. Today Israel is the world’s only really safe haven for Jews who live in a world which cannot keep them safe, even when it wants to.

The siege in a kosher shop in Paris proves why Israel needs to exist Spectator Blogs

 

[Vikrant]

Mindful,

They (Islamic terrorists) do not always target Jews. They also target Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Lesbians, Sikhs, Christians and you get the picture. During Mumbai seize, terrorists killed all hostages including Jews except a Muslim couple from Turkey.

 

[Vikrant]

Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida said Friday he plans to discuss the fight against terrorism with his French counterpart Laurent Fabius in Paris as part of a weeklong trip to India, France, Belgium and Britain starting next week.

Condemning the incident in Paris, he said: “We must never tolerate vicious terrorism and challenges against the freedom of speech and the press.

“Sharing this view with the international community, we must face up to the fight against terrorism.”

Referring to the purpose of the four-nation tour starting Thursday, Kishida said, “I would like to take this opportunity to send a message to the world as to how our country will contribute to the stability and prosperity of the international community and the region, and how we will try to address global challenges” in partnership with the four countries plus the European Union.

The minister said such proactive diplomacy is important, especially with this year marking the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II.

Kishida said he plans to hold a strategic dialogue with Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj in New Delhi, and to hold talks with Federica Mogherini, the EU high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, in Brussels.

In London, Kishida is scheduled to attend the first security meeting involving the foreign and defense ministers of Japan and Britain, known as two-plus-two talks.

Speaking at a separate news conference, Nakatani said he will make a three-nation trip to Djibouti, South Sudan and Britain from Jan. 17 to 22.

Kishida to visit India Europe eyes talks on terrorism in France The Japan Times

 

[bianco]

Where were the People of France/the world waving "Je suis Brigitte" placards when the govt man's cops and courts were coming for Madame Bardot over her "free speech" complaint about the treatment of sheep by Muslims?

 

[Lipush]

How in the world did the girl get away, of course Israel had to make it about them. the Israel PM is laughing and saying this is good, this is very good, or perhaps I warned them about their vote.

It was about Israel the moment they attacked Jews, idiot. Now sod off.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote,

Of course regarding the depth of the training of the terrorists, we have to accept what professionals say. If they say terrorists were well trained then they were well trained. I just had one footage to analyze their skills so I could very well be off. Having said that, it is not a good idea to compliment terrorists even objectively because terrorist sympathizers will get off on that. This may even encourage sympathizers to go to the next level and become terrorists.

I'm not thinking of complimenting them...but recognizing how dangerous they are and that people are training people for this sort of thing. But I do see what you mean.

I agree with you on free speech, pretty much. I think terrorists should not be allowed to intimidate media but intimidation has already begun and more and more newspapers and magazines are reluctant to say anything about Islam. I personally do not like disrespecting other people's religion because I think it is not right. However, that is my personal choice and I think others have right to engage in criticism of an ideology they think warrants criticism.

I agree.

The thing that concerns me about Islamists is that they have ruined it not just for innocent Muslims but anyone who can be mistaken for a Muslim like myself. After 911, two men were killed in retaliatory attacks by two racist men who thought the victims were Muslims but as we know now, neither of the victims were Muslims; one was a Sikh and another a Coptic Christian.

Any person with common sense would know that something is going to give. More and more people are hardening their stance against Islam. Of course, terror tragedies give ammunition to racist people to advance their agenda but that is whole another issue. Terrorists have survived so far because they have supporters among some western governments. This will be a critical factor in determining what the future holds for terrorists.

It worries me that more and more people are hardening against Islam based on the action of extremists who don't represent the majority. What's good, I think, is that more and more Muslim leaders are outspoken against this but what's not so good is that many don't wish to hear this and would prefer to foment hate.

What do you mean that they have supporters among some western governments?

I DO think this is the time world wide for people to speak up against this kind of muzzling of free speech by terror.

There are some more articles I found interesting on the radio - I'll find them and post them.

 

[Coyote]

Mindful,

They (Islamic terrorists) do not always target Jews. They also target Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Lesbians, Sikhs, Christians and you get the picture. During Mumbai seize, terrorists killed all hostages including Jews except a Muslim couple from Turkey.

And they target Muslims. In fact, by far, the majority of their victims have been Muslim.

 

[Vikrant]

Coyote,

Of course regarding the depth of the training of the terrorists, we have to accept what professionals say. If they say terrorists were well trained then they were well trained. I just had one footage to analyze their skills so I could very well be off. Having said that, it is not a good idea to compliment terrorists even objectively because terrorist sympathizers will get off on that. This may even encourage sympathizers to go to the next level and become terrorists.

I'm not thinking of complimenting them...but recognizing how dangerous they are and that people are training people for this sort of thing. But I do see what you mean.

I agree with you on free speech, pretty much. I think terrorists should not be allowed to intimidate media but intimidation has already begun and more and more newspapers and magazines are reluctant to say anything about Islam. I personally do not like disrespecting other people's religion because I think it is not right. However, that is my personal choice and I think others have right to engage in criticism of an ideology they think warrants criticism.

I agree.

The thing that concerns me about Islamists is that they have ruined it not just for innocent Muslims but anyone who can be mistaken for a Muslim like myself. After 911, two men were killed in retaliatory attacks by two racist men who thought the victims were Muslims but as we know now, neither of the victims were Muslims; one was a Sikh and another a Coptic Christian.

Any person with common sense would know that something is going to give. More and more people are hardening their stance against Islam. Of course, terror tragedies give ammunition to racist people to advance their agenda but that is whole another issue. Terrorists have survived so far because they have supporters among some western governments. This will be a critical factor in determining what the future holds for terrorists.

It worries me that more and more people are hardening against Islam based on the action of extremists who don't represent the majority. What's good, I think, is that more and more Muslim leaders are outspoken against this but what's not so good is that many don't wish to hear this and would prefer to foment hate.

What do you mean that they have supporters among some western governments?

I DO think this is the time world wide for people to speak up against this kind of muzzling of free speech by terror.

There are some more articles I found interesting on the radio - I'll find them and post them.

Pakistan army is the largest organizer of terrorist organizations and it has significant backing of western countries even after 911.

 

[Mindful]

MAJOR NEWS OUT OF GERMANY Firebomb hits German newspaper that printed Charlie Hebdo cartoons

 

[Coyote]

How the Charlie Hebdo attack unites the world video - CSMonitor.com

While the online response was immediate – the Twitter hashtag #JeSuisCharlie, or “I Am Charlie,” had been retweeted more than 3.4 million times as of Thursday, according to Twitter France – the reaction has spilled out of the Internet and onto the streets: More than 700,000 people turned out in cities around France to protest the attack Saturday, AP reports. Authorities expect at least a million to be at the demonstrations by Sunday.

A "unity rally" is planned in London Sunday to coincide with those in France, and in tribute, landmarks such as Trafalgar Square and the Tower Bridge will be lit in the French flag's red, white, and blue starting 4 p.m. local time. Since Wednesday, hundreds have already held silent vigils in London, with many protesters carrying signs advocating the right to free expression.

One of the sayings displayed, according to The Huffington Post UK, is one attributed to Voltaire: “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I defend to death your right to say it.” (Voltaire didn't actually say it, according to "What they Didn’t Say – A Book of Misquotations.")

In Lebanon, Ayman Mhanna, executive director of the Skeyes Center for Media and Cultural Freedom based in Beirut, has rounded up about 1,200 people via Facebook for a Sunday afternoon rally “in solidarity with Charlie Hebdo and in support of freedom of expression.”

Dozens of Palestinians also gathered in Hebron in the West Bank on Saturday, the Jerusalem Post reports.

"This is a stand alongside the French people, who usually stand by the Palestinians,” said Anwar Abu Aisha, head of the Hebron-France Association for Cultural Exchanges, which organized the demonstration. “The French people are shocked by these acts that violate their values, especially the freedom and the freedom of speech.”

Another two hundred demonstrators carrying "Je Suis Charlie" signs gathered in Johannesburg, South Africa, Saturday to listen to speeches condemning the attacks and to have a moment of silence to honor the dead.

In the United States, 2,400 users have said on Facebook that they plan to attend an afternoon rally at Washington Square Park in New York City. Another 1,000 have pledged to go to another protest being held in partnership with the French Consulate in San Francisco on Sunday.

The rallies are, in some cases, about more than freedom of the press. In Dresden, Germany – the center of recent anti-immigration protests in the country -- 35,000 gathered on Saturday to speak out against xenophobia and racism, Reuters reports.

"We have made clear that the events in France, this barbaric terrorist act, are a challenge for all of us, for the values that we advocate, to fight for them," German Chancellor Angela Merkel said. Merkel, who will take part in a silent march in Paris on Sunday, added that people must distinguish between Islam and religious fanatics.

 

[Vikrant]

It seems like some tabloids have more gusto than mainstream news media.

---

...

A German newspaper, the Hamburger Morgenpost, that reprinted the Charlie Hebdo cartoons says it suffered an arson attack overnight.

The incident happened at about 2 am local time. Unidentified people threw stones and an incendiary devices into the building housing the “Hamburger Morgenpost” tabloid newspaper in Hamburg, Germany’s second largest city.

...

Arson at German paper that reprinted Charlie Hebdo cartoons VIDEO RT News

 

[Vikrant]

MAJOR NEWS OUT OF GERMANY Firebomb hits German newspaper that printed Charlie Hebdo cartoons

One thing that surprised me about Charlie Hebdo is that they did not procure any form of armed security even though there had been incidents where newspapers were targeted for attack by Islamist terrorists. One of the high profile cases involved an American terrorist David Coleman Headley aka Dawood Gilani who planned an attack on Jyllands-Posten, a newspaper in Denmark but he was busted by FBI before he could carry out his plans. I am similarly puzzled by Hamburger Morgenpost's decision to not procure any form of security. If you are publishing any material that is likely to anger Muslims, the least you should do is procure some sort of security for your employees.

 

[Vikrant]

More than 1 million people -- including leaders from around the world -- today marched as part of "a cry for freedom" to honor those killed in this week's terror attacks in Paris.

The march began Sunday afternoon at the Place de la Republique, near the Charlie Hebdo offices where 12 people were killed Wednesday.

French officials say about 1.3 million people huddled in the windy streets -- some appearing solemn, some upbeat -- marching with French flags and "Je suis Charlie" -- "I am Charlie" -- signs. Some sang and clapped, and portions of the crowd spontaneously burst into applause as they marched.

It was the largest demonstration in French history, according to officials.

World Leaders Head Paris March Honoring Terror Victims - ABC News

 

[Vikrant]

Jerusalem: Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu coupled a show of solidarity with France on Sunday with a reminder to shaken French Jews that Israel is keen to welcome them as immigrants.

Mr Netanyahu and two far-right members of his cabinet flew to Paris on Sunday to join dozens of foreign leaders and hundreds of thousands of French citizens in a march honouring the victims of Islamist militant attacks this week.

The timing of his message that "Israel is also your home" could clash with attempts by French leaders to reassure Europe's largest Jewish community after the shock assaults that included a hostage-taking at a kosher supermarket.

...

Benjamin Netanyahu offers French Jews a haven in Israel