Fox News Reports on Collapse of Building 7 Before It Happens

[LA RAM FAN]

so that lays to rest right there that there is NO EVIDENCE that Bin Laden ever said he did it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The fire was not enough to bring down 7. Silverstein (the guy that had the insurance on the building) said it was PULLED. He made BILLIONS. In order for it to free fall like it did it required explosives. In order to bring it down with such precision it requires weeks of planning. In order to place the explosives in the building it would require someone would have had to plan the implosion weeks in advance and had access to the building.

Great to FINALLY see someone else come on here besides me and EOTS not afraid of the truth who can think for themselves and outside the box and not fall for the propaganda of the governments POPULAR MECHANICS B.S.welcome aboard my friend,your a true patriot.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

So if bin laden would say he had more no part in it then the number would be much higher.

I am not sure about the entire middle east, but according to WorldOpinionPoll.org only 12 % of the people of egypt believe it was done by our govt. Also, according to the same website only 15% of the world believe it was an inside job. Here are the polls that were posted on wikipedia from WorldOpinionPoll.org. 9/11 opinion polls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WIKIPEDIA is a horrible source to rely on.its world know facts around the globe that it was an inside job.Most of the people polled in russia,italy,japan,and canada as examples know it was.Its only here in america where most people in the country are ignorant about it being an inside job.Its not anywhere near as suppressed around the world in other media outlets like japan and canada like it is here.matter of fact,the populations of the world have not onl hated the government of the united states for years cause the CIA makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys and their the reason the world is in such a mess with wars.They not only hate our government but they are now starting to hate us americans as well cause people are too afraid to take action here and do something about it and I dont blame them for hating us.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

He asked you to disprove his post, not to give opinion. On the popular mechanics site there are seismologist, engineers, geophysics, fire experts, and aviation experts.
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

for the hundreth time,Griffith quoted these kinds of experts from his book that HAS disproved his posts.not his fault your in denial.

 

[Big_D]

Griffiths book has only been debunked in your fairy tale land.

How compelling you are to insult me and ignore the link I provided. I think I know why you decided on insulting me instead of actually refuting the point. It is because Griffins book is one of the few arguments that you have left. If it is discredited, as it looks like it has in the following link, the you really do not have many points remaining. Face it, Griffins book flat out cannot compare to the experts I have in the following post in this thread (#406).

http://www.911myths.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf
This link goes through the points in Griffins book that you keep promoting.

I already answered that question for you,not my fault if you have a poor memory.

If it is the question of why I should trust Griffin, a philosophy professor, instead of Dr. Bažant, an engineering professor/expert, then you have not made an adequate answer. I have said numerous times and gave you a list why you response was silly to which I got no answer. This is also after you changed your story. In post number 144 of this thread you said you were going to read Dr. Bažant's paper. You said you were sure that is was laughable. Well, it has been over three weeks. Why don't inform me how laughable it was?

as i said before,griffith has challenged the government to debate him,they wont,Matter of fact he has a new book out just recently released called CHALLENGE TO THE MEDIA AND THE 9/11 COMMISSION challenging the commission and the media to go public with him and his experts.they wont do it cause they know they cant debunk him.no not taking the high road,not my fault you guys wont read his book and want to believe in fairy tales.

It's interesting how you call the official story of 9/11 a fairy tale when you have said in the past that Barack Obama might have even conspired on perpetrating it. He was in his state's legislator at the time. He obviously didn't have any authority in attacking his own country. Why doesn't Griffin ask Dr. Bažant and the 60+ engineering experts at the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics in their engineering division who approved his paper about the official story of 9/11? I bet those 60+ engineering experts know more why the WTC buildings fell than that philosophy teacher.

 

[AmericaFirst]

Great to FINALLY see someone else come on here besides me and EOTS not afraid of the truth who can think for themselves and outside the box and not fall for the propaganda of the governments POPULAR MECHANICS B.S.welcome aboard my friend,your a true patriot.

When the you look at what happened and then read the 9/11 Commission report then go back and look what happened it's pretty obvious the rats have invaded our Great Nation.

It's still going on. Not a single law suit from the victims has made it to trial. Not ONE. All paid off so REAL evidence can't be brought into court.

Look at Bin Laden - He has NEVER been charged by the FBI or the USA for the crime.

There is too much evidence to even discuss here IMO. The sheep that follow the official story will never except anything but what the zionist occupied government and media has told them. To try and convince any one that's still believes the official story is a waste of time. I don't know if you know it or not but there are people on the internet hired to either argue with you endlessly with their script or hired to point you toward the wrong discussion.

Some of the biggest 'truthers' are FAKE. Look at Alex Jones for example. He only goes so far then starts his 'new world order', 'black pope', bilderbergs' ect. script, rather then naming the real murderers.

Christopher Bollyn has pretty much solved the crime. He had some bones broke along the way but he's identified the criminals.

Christopher Bollyn

http://www.bollyn.info/home/

 

[Big_D]

for the freaking hundreth time lik we have told you before,stop pretending that griffith is the only expert out there who believes it was an inaide job.

I do not pretend that Griffin is the only expert that agrees with your opinion, as I know that he is not an expert at all! Like we have been saying, he is a former philosophy professor.

for the hundreth time,read griffiths entire book-not just one page or so where he shows in the book that he ihas nterviewed these kinds of experts in the fields you have mentioned and look at his footnotes in the back where he shows where he got them from.

Again, you tout someone who has interviewed experts, instead of the experts themselves. Here is a list of experts that agree with me:

• Dr. Zdeněk P. Bažant- Engineering Professor at Northwestern
His view on 9/11: http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf
His credentials: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant — PNAS
Civil and Environmental Engineering - Faculty Profile - Zdenek Bazant
• Dr. Paul F. Mlakar Ph.D., P.E., F.ASCE
o His View on 9/11: http://mceer.buffalo.edu/meetings/AEI/presentations/06Mlakar-paper.pdf
o His credentials: http://mceer.buffalo.edu/meetings/AEI/Mlakar.pdf

• Dr. Tim Wilkinson: Professor of engineering at The university of Sydney
o His view on 9/11: World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
o His credentials: Tim Wilkinson - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
• Dr. Hassan Astaneh: Professor of engineering at Berkley
His view on 9/11: Jets hit towers in most vulnerable spots / Killers appear to have known where to strike
His Credentials: Engineering News, Date
(located under his photo)
• Dr. W. Gene Corley:
His view on 9/11: Gene Corley | World news | The Guardian
His Credentials: W. Gene Corley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.ctlgroup.com/files/dynamic_resumes/Corley NARRES 0131.pdf
• Dr. Robert L. Parker: Physics professor at USC
o His view on 9/11: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics
o His credentials: mahi.ucsd.edu/parker/
• Dr. Mete Sozen: Engineering professor at Purdue
o His View on 9/11: New simulation shows 9/11 plane crash with scientific detail
o His credentials :https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/Pe...source_id=2260
• Dr. Fred Culick: Engineering professor at Cal tech. His view on 9/11: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics His Credentials :GALCIT :: Fred Culick
• Dr. Ching S. Chang:
o His view on 9/11: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - The Paper
o His credentials: The College of Engineering University of Massachusetts | C.S. Chang
• Dr. Ayhan Irfanoglu- Engineering professor at Purdue
o His view on 9/11: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jun/21/911-simulation32supports-report/s
o His credentials: Ayhan Irfanoglu - Purdue University
• Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer -Engineering Professor at the university of Maryland
His view on 9/11: http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center
His Crednetials : Frederick W. Mowrer, Faculty, Department of Fire Protection Engineering, University of Maryland
• Dr Keith Seffen Engineering Professor at Cambridge University
o His view on 9/11: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 9/11 demolition theory challenged
o His Credentials: Keith Seffen
• Dr. Asif Usmani: Professor of engineering at Edinburgh
o His view on 9/11: http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/1216
o His Credentials: Fire Safety Engineering
• Dr. Jose Torero: Professor of engineering at Edinburgh
o His View on 9/11: http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/1216
o His credentials: Fire Safety Engineering
• Arvid Naess: Professor of engineering at Norwegian University of Science and Technology
o His View on 9/11: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - The Paper
o His Credentials: http://www.bygg.ntnu.no/~arvidn/front.htm
o Professor Arvid Naess
• Masayuki Nakao Engineering professor at the University of Tokyo.
o His view on 9/11: JST Failure Knowledge Database > Case Details > The World Trade Center Collapse
o His credentials: Masayuki Nakao
• Mark Loizeaux: Demolition expert, owner of Controlled Demolition Inc.
o His views on 9/11: BBC NEWS | Programmes | Conspiracy Files | Q&A: The collapse of Tower 7
o His credentials: Survival Guide: Mark Loizeaux demolition expert

None of these people knwo what they are talking about?

 

[Big_D]

for the hundreth time,Griffith quoted these kinds of experts from his book that HAS disproved his posts.not his fault your in denial.

Here is an expert for you:
"Mr Loizeaux also told the BBC that you would need to place hundreds of explosive charges along with miles of initiating cable and miles more detonating cord. And you would find evidence left behind of all these explosive charges, blasting caps and tubes.

Furthermore says Loizeaux, when you are dealing with charges big enough to bring down a building like Tower 7: "The amount of air that's displaced will break windows easily.

"There were a lot of broken windows mainly through impact debris. But I didn't see windows broken on the backs of building, only where debris falling from the Towers struck it.

"But come round the back side, no windows were broken there.

"They were shielded from debris falling. If explosives of the magnitude necessary to cut the columns in a big building, were detonated the windows all the way round would have been shattered. No way round it." "

Loizeaux has set world records for the largest building that was brought down through controlled demolition. Yet again, you think I should trust someone that isn't an expert.

 

[Big_D]

WIKIPEDIA is a horrible source to rely on.its world know facts around the globe that it was an inside job.Most of the people polled in russia,italy,japan,and canada as examples know it was.Its only here in america where most people in the country are ignorant about it being an inside job.Its not anywhere near as suppressed around the world in other media outlets like japan and canada like it is here.matter of fact,the populations of the world have not onl hated the government of the united states for years cause the CIA makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys and their the reason the world is in such a mess with wars.They not only hate our government but they are now starting to hate us americans as well cause people are too afraid to take action here and do something about it and I dont blame them for hating us.

Wikipedia back up what it was saying there sources they used at the bottom of the page. Also, that is irrelevant if the polls are correct or not. As I said in the post you quoted me, if Bin Laden would say that the American govt perpetrated it then more people in those nations would agree with him.

for the hundreth time,Griffith quoted these kinds of experts from his book that HAS disproved his posts.not his fault your in denial.

I don't know why you put so much credibility in Griffin's book. It makes not sense to trust a philosophy professor if I cannot trust all the engineering, psychics, and demolition experts in post number 406 of this thread. In Griffins book he doesn't combat the Popular Mechanics article. He simply says how it is different from other experts. For example, in the "melted steel" section he says that Thomas Edgar's article on why the towers fell is different from the popular mechanics article. They state that Edgar says the heat rose to 700 degrees Celsius in the WTC building meanwhile, PM says it is 900. That is all. His book does not debunk popular mechanics, it just shows the differences between that articles and others written about 9/11. Different people are going to come to different conclusions. Also, when Griffin supposedly debunks popular mechanics, he never said how the building could stand if the heat rose to 700 degrees. Dr. Thomas Edgar's article said that the heat would bring down the buildings at 700 degrees, but Griffin thinks that since Popular Mechanics experts said the heat could have risen to 900, then it is worthless.

Also for the hundredth time, Dr. Bažant's article (http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf) passed the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics in their engineering division. That means engineering experts from around the globe read this and approved it. David Ray Griffin's book didn't do this. None of the experts you have listed has had articles approved by this group. Therefore it makes no sense to take their word's INCLUDING GRIFFIN'S over Dr. Bažant's.

Furthermore, Griffins book has apparently been debunked as well: http://www.911myths.com/drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf

 

[eots]

Richard Gage, AIA, Architect – Member, American Institute of Architects. A practicing Architect for 20 years who has worked on most types of building construction including numerous fire-proofed steel-framed buildings. Founding member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Speech at Sonoma State University 4/20/07:

"Another 2006 poll by Scripps Howard, Ohio University, which found that a shocking 16% believe that the World Trade Center's Twin Towers were brought down by explosives. Unfortunately, my research has also concluded that this is true. Tonight I will present to you the very clear evidence that all three World Trade Center high-rise buildings, the Twin Towers and Building 7 were destroyed not by fire as our government has told us, but by controlled demolition with explosives." About Us


Frank A. DeMartini – WTC victim. Architect and WTC Construction Manager, North Tower, 88th floor. Demartini first worked at the World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the terrorist truck bombing in 1993.

Video interview 1/25/01: "The [Twin Tower] building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door. This intense grid * and the jet-plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." Google Video





Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE – Licensed Professional Civil Engineer and/or Fire Protection Engineer in the States of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. Owner of Grainger Consulting, Inc., a fire protection engineering firm (23 years). Former Chairman, Arizona State Fire Code Committee. Former President of the Arizona Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. Current Member of the Forensic Sciences Committee and the Fire Standards Committee of ASTM International (formerly American Society for Testing and Materials ). Senior Member, National Academy of Forensic Engineers.
Editor's note: The Boeing 767-200s that impacted the Twin Towers on 9/11 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center's designers anticipated. The maximum takeoff weight of the 707 is 15% less than the 767.


Bio: Obituaries | Death Notices | Newspaper Obituaries | Online Obituaries | Newspaper Death Notices | Online Death Notices

\
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"Approximately 50% of my work is forensic. I am licensed in 9 States. In addition to my forensic work, a good portion of my work is in the design of structural fireproofing systems.

All three [WTC] collapses were very uniform in nature. Natural collapses due to unplanned events are not uniform." AE911Truth



Keller, BS CE, MS Irrigation Eng, PhD Agricultural and Irrigation Eng, PE, F.ASCE – Professor Emeritus, Agricultural and Irrigation Engineering, Utah State University. Member, National Academy of Engineering. Elected Fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers. Selected by Scientific American magazine as one of the world's 50 leading contributors to science and technology benefiting society (2004).

Through his public and private activities, Dr. Keller has provided advisory services in irrigated agricultural development and water management in more than 60 countries. Serves as an advisor to the CALFED Water Use Efficiency Program and former member CALFED Independent Science Board. Serves on the US and International Boards of International Development Enterprises, an NGO that focuses on rural poverty alleviation. Licensed and practicing Professional Engineer, State of Utah. Awarded State of Utah Governor's Medal for Science and Technology (1988). 2006 Recipient of the American Society of Civil Engineers - Environmental & Water Resources Institute Royce J. Tipton National Career Achievement Award. Author of more than 90 technical papers, 50 major consulting reports, 9 handbooks and 2 textbooks in the areas of agricultural water resources planning and engineering.
Endorsement of 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press by David Ray Griffin: "This book describes in very straightforward and non-technical terms some major inconsistencies in the government's official story about the events on September 11, 2001. It points out many attempts in the 9/11 Commission's report to cover up evidence. ... As an engineer, I am especially troubled by the cover-up of evidence relevant to the collapse of the three major World Trade Center buildings. I hope that Congress and the public will heed this call for a full and impartial investigation to determine what really did happen on that fateful day." Interlink Books



Danny Jowenko – Proprietor, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie B.V., a European demolition and construction company, with offices in the Netherlands. Founded 1980, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie is certified and holds permits to comply with the Dutch Explosives for Civil Use Act and the German Explosives Act. Jowenko's explosives engineers also hold the German Certificate of Qualifications and the European Certificate for Shotfiring issued by The European Federation of Explosive Engineers.

Danny Jowenko: When the FEMA makes a report that it came down by fire, and you have to earn your money in the States as a controlled demolition company and you say, "No, it was a controlled demolition", you're gone. You know?



Michael Armenia, BS EE – Former Project Engineer, Safety and Test Engineering, Underwriters Laboratories 1988 - 1997.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"Common sense, the laws of physics, and all publicly available evidence (video, expert and eyewitness testimony, etc.) indubitably indicates controlled demolition of all 3 WTC buildings that collapsed on 9-11. Official explanations are unsound and unacceptable as they lack any credible evidence.

I'd like to add that I was watching CNN and NBC broadcasts from Germany on 9-11 as events unfolded. I recall reports of possible controlled demolition of WTC 7 and anticipated as much in advance of the event." AE911Truth
Patriots Question 9/11 - Engineers and Architects Question the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[Big_D]

of course not EVERYTHING Mcgovern says is going to make it to print.you didnt talk to him personally like I did.He spoke there at the meeting that he believes it was an inside job and got a standing ovation after his speech about it from over 200 people there at the event.this event I went to isnt going to be broadcast everywhere.No he told me he believes they perpetrated it.I already answered your question at LEAST twice before about in your first paragraph,,yet you STILL keep asking it.

From your own statement, you didn't say he believed it was an inside job. I couldn't find anything that says he supports your claim this whatsoever.

 

[eots]

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

Video 7/22/06: "I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What’s being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines Corps, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott is exactly right, that’s certainly an impeachable offense." http://video.google


Endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire (Vol I) – Intellectuals Speak Out: "It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs. But the present volume confronts us with compelling evidence for an even more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus exploited. If this is true, it is not merely the case, as the Downing Street memos show, that the stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie. It is also the case that the whole 'war on terror' was based on a prior deception." Interlink Books


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article



Bio: Ray McGovern - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.

Endorsement of Debunking 9/11 Debunking 3/30/07: "David Ray Griffin’s Debunking 9/11 Debunking is a superb compendium of the strong body of evidence showing the official U.S. Government story of what happened on September 11, 2001 to be almost certainly a monstrous series of lies. Tragically, the entire course of U.S. foreign and domestic policies since that date has grown out of these almost certain falsehoods. This single book could (and should) provide the basis for the United Nations‚ International Court of Justice, or some specially constituted global body (independent of the U.S.) to investigate with highest priority, and publicly report its findings about, the charge that unknown elements within the U.S. Government, and possibly some individuals elsewhere closely allied to the U.S., caused or contributed to causing the events of September 11 to happen." Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more


Essay Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11 8/14/06: "I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. … The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them." Dissident Voice


Article 9/7/06: "David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside job - I've got to say I think that it was too. … I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen or at least allowing it to happen. … The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. … All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions." Alex Jones' Prison Planet.com

 

[Big_D]

well you have arrogantly and blantantly ignored those last posts of mine right before yours on this page that proves overwhemling it was an inside job,havent bothered to look at those videos I posted that prove it so I am now done with you.

How do you know that I didn't do this? Again, you ASSUME I didn't read this info, b/c when I say I do this and still disagree with you, it weakens your argument. You have made this claim numerous times. I have supplied experts from the demolition field that state it was impossible to have taken down these buildings.

I will reply to your previous posts from this but after that I am done with you.I thought you were different from dive con and toro since you dont call people names like they do when losing a debate but as I said,its tiresome having to keep repeating myself when I have given you the answers many times before.

The reason why you repeat yourself is that since you think that anyone that supports your claim is right and anyone who says the opposite is wrong, you will say the same info over again to everything I bring forward. For example, you inform me to read Griffins book over and over, as it is an adequate response to all the experts that I have brought to the table. His book is just ONE piece of info on this topic, yet when I bring up different experts, you just say to read his book. Not very compelling.

Another example is when we will be having a discussion back and forth and I will supply new info for my opinion and you will just simply avoid the issue next time you post.

Or you will insult me instead of refuting my point. When you say for me to read Griffins book, I supplied a link that refuted it. Your response is that I am living in a fantasy land. Because anyone who disagrees with you lives in a fantasy land, right?

You also make claims that you do not back up. You state that in the London times had an article that stated that the first emergency phone call on 9/11 was made by Guilaini. According to you, this also occurred one hour after the BBC reported the attacks. I promptly went on the London Times website and couldn't find this article in their archives. DiveCon then asks you to find the article on google via their archive newspaper search. We have not heard back from you on the subject.

Also, I do not know why you are complaining about have to repeat yourself. I have asked you countless time you refute to back up your statement from post number 144 in this thread where you said that Dr. Bažant's paper was laughable to which I get no reply. As I said, This was over three weeks ago. As a result, I expected you to back it up. To which you never did. Anyone can go on that post in this thread and see for themselves. You always make assumptions about myself so now I will make the assumption that since you haven't backed up your statement, then you cannot. This alone ruins your argument of 9/11 being an inside job.

its so obvious you havent looked at that those videos on the candawants the truth site cause if you did,you would see the evidence is overwhelming in those videos that bombs went off in the towers and was an inside job.

Again, how do you know this? You are saying that anyone who looks at information and comes to a different conclusion is wrong.

I thought you were different than divecon since unlike him,you dont call people names when losing a debate and you were asking questions,i thought you has a sincere interest in learning but you dont,so dont expect anymore replies from me over quesitons of yours because its the same ones over and over again that I have already answered. Now I am going to post the stuff i have been wanting to post for a long time but cant cause you wont admit the obvious that it was an inside job and keep asking the same questions in half your posts that I have already answered many times before.

In the first thread where we first had this discussion (title Bill clinton and Barrack Obama believe terrorists are responsible for 9/11) I asked you numerous questions that went unanswered. That is one of the many reasons why I also had trouble agreeing with you. Many questions would go unanswered. I would ask you to back up statements that went upon deaf ears.

I also have had trouble believing you when after I would prove you wrong on an issue, you just kept going on about your point of view. When you said that 40% of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job, I proved that this was incorrect and provided a link that said it was only 4.7%. Of course you provided no link and after I said this, you just kept going on how the number was 40. You even said for me to get my facts straight as you have proved me wrong. Even though I had the link to back it up and you had nothing.

 

[eots]

so the D stands for denial ?

 

[Big_D]

okay to talk more about the fake bin laden video.the governments 2007 photo that they say if him where he has the black beard is OBVIOUSLY fake.you can see the 2004 photo of him where he has the grey beard,that they are not the same people.its against muslims religion to dye their beard so that guy is obviously not him in that first video EOTS showed.Thats a good point BIG D but there is another video out there where we see in more detail of him writing where they say thats him but its clearly a fake cause it shows him in more detail,writing right handed when he its known that he is left handed and in that video,the guy acts and sounds nothing like the real bin laden they say.as for that last video,No his son doesnt say that exactly that the video is fake,but he clearly made it clear {in his own way} that he didnt think that video was his dad just cause they told him so.same thing.There is also a video out there that they say is him where he is wearing a ring and the muslims religion FORBIDS them to wear rings.

Two issues with this statement:
1) You are not backing up anything that you are saying.
2) Even if what you are saying is true, then you are not talking about the tapes I have been referring to.

all you got to do to find the proof that Bin Laden SAID he didnt do it,is google in ummat pakistani newspaper sept 28th 2001 issue bin laden and you can see for yourself where he says he DIDN'T do it.in the interview as you can see he starts out to say-I have already said that I am not involved in the sept 11th attacks in the united states.As a muslim,I try my best to avoid telling a lie.I had no knowledge of these attacks,nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people.such a practice is forbidden even in the course of battle.It is the united states,which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women,children,and uncommon people.In this interview,largely unreported in the united states,Bin Laden unsurprisingly blamed the attacks on Isreal,claiming "all that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of god upon the united states and isreal and what had earlier been done to the people of Iraq,chechnya and Bosnia.Bin Laden then went on to state-"we are not hostile to the united states,we are against the [US GOVERNMENT] system which makes other nations slaves to the united states or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom.all of this went unreported by the united states fortunately,the European media DID report it.

First of all that is not proof. Secondly, this article was written shortly after the attacks in 2001. You may or may not remember that he said in a press conference type forum that he did not have a hand in the attacks a few days after they occurred. It wasn't until later on when he would admit to the attacks.

ALSO Bin ladens mother,alia Ghanem,told a british newspaper "There are too many gaps and the statements are unlike him.Osama is too good a muslim and too good a person to say or do what the script of the video suggests.Ghanem who still lives in Saudi Arabia,said the tape was "doctored" some days later,his mothers claim was supported by Arabic language experts,who claimed that the pentagons translation of the tape was incorrect and taken out of context.also as well,2 independent translators and an expert on arabic culture reported their findings on the german state tv program-MONITOR.which was broadcast dec 20th 2001 over germanys DAS ERST,often compared to NBC or the BBC Dr Abdel Husseini stated-I have carefully examined the pentagons translation.this translation is very problomatic.at the most important places which have been presented as "PROOF" OF bIN LADENS guilt,it is not identical with the arabic.

The Key part in this statement is when you said it was broadcasted on December 20th 2001. Bin Laden only admitted to the attacks once at that point in time. Even if it is true that leave at least three more times when he claimed responsibility.

 

[eots]

FBI Declares Lack of Evidence to Connect Bin Laden to 9/11

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Despite all hues and cries by the US officials and media as well as those of the west that the Al-Qaeda and its leader Osama Bin Laden are the most wanted people for their direct role in September 11th terrorist attacks, the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) says that it has no evidence in this regard, raising more suspicion over all the speculations the US tried to forge in the world public opinion.


Fars News Agency :: FBI Declares Lack of Evidence to Connect Bin Laden to 9/11


Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, August 28, 2006; Page A13

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is a longtime and prominent member of the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" list, which notes his role as the suspected mastermind of the deadly U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa on Aug. 7, 1998.

But another more infamous date -- Sept. 11, 2001 -- is nowhere to be found on the same FBI notice.The curious omission underscores the Justice Department's decision, so far, to not seek formal criminal charges against bin Laden

Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?

 

[Big_D]

FBI Declares Lack of Evidence to Connect Bin Laden to 9/11

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Despite all hues and cries by the US officials and media as well as those of the west that the Al-Qaeda and its leader Osama Bin Laden are the most wanted people for their direct role in September 11th terrorist attacks, the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) says that it has no evidence in this regard, raising more suspicion over all the speculations the US tried to forge in the world public opinion.


Fars News Agency :: FBI Declares Lack of Evidence to Connect Bin Laden to 9/11


Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, August 28, 2006; Page A13

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is a longtime and prominent member of the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" list, which notes his role as the suspected mastermind of the deadly U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa on Aug. 7, 1998.

But another more infamous date -- Sept. 11, 2001 -- is nowhere to be found on the same FBI notice.The curious omission underscores the Justice Department's decision, so far, to not seek formal criminal charges against bin Laden

Bin Laden, Most Wanted For Embassy Bombings?

We all know that there wasn't sufficient evidence to convict Bin Laden with the attacks. It doesn't mean that it was an inside job. Al Qeada could have very well perpetrated it without him. He has though admitted to it on numerous occasions:
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Bin Laden video threatens America
Bin Laden says he ordered 9/11 attacks
The Guardian's Timeline of the tapes
Osama claims responsibility for 9/11-Rest of World-World-The Times of India
I would have to see proof that all of these are fakes in order to not believe them.

 

[Big_D]

Some of the biggest 'truthers' are FAKE. Look at Alex Jones for example. He only goes so far then starts his 'new world order', 'black pope', bilderbergs' ect. script, rather then naming the real murderers.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think this?

Also out of curiosity, who do you think was responsible for the attacks? Was it only Bush? Was it the last few presidents?

I disagree that 9/11 was an inside job, yet I am willing to change my position if you can convince. Mainly, why should I agree with anyone over Dr. Bažant and his paper? (http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf) Do you know that this article passed the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics in their engineering division? That means 20+ engineering experts from around the globe read this and approved it. David Ray Griffin's book didn't do this. None of the experts you have listed has had articles approved by this group. Only this one has passed. It flat out would not make sense to take anyone's word over his because of this reason.

 

[Big_D]

Richard Gage, AIA, Architect – Member, American Institute of Architects. A practicing Architect for 20 years who has worked on most types of building construction including numerous fire-proofed steel-framed buildings. Founding member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Speech at Sonoma State University 4/20/07:

"Another 2006 poll by Scripps Howard, Ohio University, which found that a shocking 16% believe that the World Trade Center's Twin Towers were brought down by explosives. Unfortunately, my research has also concluded that this is true. Tonight I will present to you the very clear evidence that all three World Trade Center high-rise buildings, the Twin Towers and Building 7 were destroyed not by fire as our government has told us, but by controlled demolition with explosives." About Us


Frank A. DeMartini – WTC victim. Architect and WTC Construction Manager, North Tower, 88th floor. Demartini first worked at the World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the terrorist truck bombing in 1993.

Video interview 1/25/01: "The [Twin Tower] building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door. This intense grid * and the jet-plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." Google Video





Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE – Licensed Professional Civil Engineer and/or Fire Protection Engineer in the States of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. Owner of Grainger Consulting, Inc., a fire protection engineering firm (23 years). Former Chairman, Arizona State Fire Code Committee. Former President of the Arizona Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. Current Member of the Forensic Sciences Committee and the Fire Standards Committee of ASTM International (formerly American Society for Testing and Materials ). Senior Member, National Academy of Forensic Engineers.
Editor's note: The Boeing 767-200s that impacted the Twin Towers on 9/11 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center's designers anticipated. The maximum takeoff weight of the 707 is 15% less than the 767.


Bio: Obituaries | Death Notices | Newspaper Obituaries | Online Obituaries | Newspaper Death Notices | Online Death Notices

\
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"Approximately 50% of my work is forensic. I am licensed in 9 States. In addition to my forensic work, a good portion of my work is in the design of structural fireproofing systems.

All three [WTC] collapses were very uniform in nature. Natural collapses due to unplanned events are not uniform." AE911Truth



Keller, BS CE, MS Irrigation Eng, PhD Agricultural and Irrigation Eng, PE, F.ASCE – Professor Emeritus, Agricultural and Irrigation Engineering, Utah State University. Member, National Academy of Engineering. Elected Fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers. Selected by Scientific American magazine as one of the world's 50 leading contributors to science and technology benefiting society (2004).

Through his public and private activities, Dr. Keller has provided advisory services in irrigated agricultural development and water management in more than 60 countries. Serves as an advisor to the CALFED Water Use Efficiency Program and former member CALFED Independent Science Board. Serves on the US and International Boards of International Development Enterprises, an NGO that focuses on rural poverty alleviation. Licensed and practicing Professional Engineer, State of Utah. Awarded State of Utah Governor's Medal for Science and Technology (1988). 2006 Recipient of the American Society of Civil Engineers - Environmental & Water Resources Institute Royce J. Tipton National Career Achievement Award. Author of more than 90 technical papers, 50 major consulting reports, 9 handbooks and 2 textbooks in the areas of agricultural water resources planning and engineering.
Endorsement of 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press by David Ray Griffin: "This book describes in very straightforward and non-technical terms some major inconsistencies in the government's official story about the events on September 11, 2001. It points out many attempts in the 9/11 Commission's report to cover up evidence. ... As an engineer, I am especially troubled by the cover-up of evidence relevant to the collapse of the three major World Trade Center buildings. I hope that Congress and the public will heed this call for a full and impartial investigation to determine what really did happen on that fateful day." Interlink Books



Danny Jowenko – Proprietor, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie B.V., a European demolition and construction company, with offices in the Netherlands. Founded 1980, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie is certified and holds permits to comply with the Dutch Explosives for Civil Use Act and the German Explosives Act. Jowenko's explosives engineers also hold the German Certificate of Qualifications and the European Certificate for Shotfiring issued by The European Federation of Explosive Engineers.

Danny Jowenko: When the FEMA makes a report that it came down by fire, and you have to earn your money in the States as a controlled demolition company and you say, "No, it was a controlled demolition", you're gone. You know?



Michael Armenia, BS EE – Former Project Engineer, Safety and Test Engineering, Underwriters Laboratories 1988 - 1997.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"Common sense, the laws of physics, and all publicly available evidence (video, expert and eyewitness testimony, etc.) indubitably indicates controlled demolition of all 3 WTC buildings that collapsed on 9-11. Official explanations are unsound and unacceptable as they lack any credible evidence.

I'd like to add that I was watching CNN and NBC broadcasts from Germany on 9-11 as events unfolded. I recall reports of possible controlled demolition of WTC 7 and anticipated as much in advance of the event." AE911Truth
Patriots Question 9/11 - Engineers and Architects Question the 9/11 Commission Report

So why exactly should I take their word over the follow experts:


• Dr. Zdeněk P. Bažant- Engineering Professor at Northwestern
His view on 9/11: http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf
His credentials: Biography of Zdeněk P. Bažant — PNAS
Civil and Environmental Engineering - Faculty Profile - Zdenek Bazant
• Dr. Paul F. Mlakar Ph.D., P.E., F.ASCE
o His View on 9/11: http://mceer.buffalo.edu/meetings/AEI/presentations/06Mlakar-paper.pdf
o His credentials: http://mceer.buffalo.edu/meetings/AEI/Mlakar.pdf

• Dr. Tim Wilkinson: Professor of engineering at The university of Sydney
o His view on 9/11: World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
o His credentials: Tim Wilkinson - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
• Dr. Hassan Astaneh: Professor of engineering at Berkley
His view on 9/11: Jets hit towers in most vulnerable spots / Killers appear to have known where to strike
His Credentials: Engineering News, Date
(located under his photo)
• Dr. W. Gene Corley:
His view on 9/11: Gene Corley | World news | The Guardian
His Credentials: W. Gene Corley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.ctlgroup.com/files/dynamic_resumes/Corley NARRES 0131.pdf
• Dr. Robert L. Parker: Physics professor at USC
o His view on 9/11: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics
o His credentials: mahi.ucsd.edu/parker/
• Dr. Mete Sozen: Engineering professor at Purdue
o His View on 9/11: New simulation shows 9/11 plane crash with scientific detail
o His credentials :https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/Pe...source_id=2260
• Dr. Fred Culick: Engineering professor at Cal tech. His view on 9/11: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics His Credentials :GALCIT :: Fred Culick
• Dr. Ching S. Chang:
o His view on 9/11: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - The Paper
o His credentials: The College of Engineering University of Massachusetts | C.S. Chang
• Dr. Ayhan Irfanoglu- Engineering professor at Purdue
o His view on 9/11: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/jun/21/911-simulation32supports-report/s
o His credentials: Ayhan Irfanoglu - Purdue University
• Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer -Engineering Professor at the university of Maryland
His view on 9/11: Collapse of the World Trade Center -Debunk 9/11 Myths
His Crednetials : Frederick W. Mowrer, Faculty, Department of Fire Protection Engineering, University of Maryland
• Dr Keith Seffen Engineering Professor at Cambridge University
o His view on 9/11: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 9/11 demolition theory challenged
o His Credentials: Keith Seffen
• Dr. Asif Usmani: Professor of engineering at Edinburgh
o His view on 9/11: http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/1216
o His Credentials: Fire Safety Engineering
• Dr. Jose Torero: Professor of engineering at Edinburgh
o His View on 9/11: http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/1216
o His credentials: Fire Safety Engineering
• Arvid Naess: Professor of engineering at Norwegian University of Science and Technology
o His View on 9/11: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - The Paper
o His Credentials: http://www.bygg.ntnu.no/~arvidn/front.htm
o Professor Arvid Naess
• Masayuki Nakao Engineering professor at the University of Tokyo.
o His view on 9/11: JST Failure Knowledge Database > Case Details > The World Trade Center Collapse
o His credentials: Masayuki Nakao
• Mark Loizeaux: Demolition expert, owner of Controlled Demolition Inc.
o His views on 9/11: BBC NEWS | Programmes | Conspiracy Files | Q&A: The collapse of Tower 7
o His credentials: Survival Guide: Mark Loizeaux demolition expert
• Jeremy Abraham Kirk: MIT professors
o His views on 9/11: http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/31114/61145960.pdf?sequence=1
o His credentials:

The majority of my experts are engineers professors from around the world and they have explanations why the buildings fell and it wasn't through controlled demolition. Do NONE of these professors know what they are talking about?

As I have said numerous times, only ONE paper has passed peer review and that was the first one I listed here. It clearly makes no sense to agree with anyone else?

Also, some of your people didnt say the believe it was an inside job. For example, as I covered with 9/11 inside job Ray McGovern didnt say this. Furthermore, Danny Jowenko is someone we covered as well. He said on a youtube clip that you showed of him that he couldnt explain how the WTC building 7 fell through controlled demolition if it was on fire. As I showed, he said they would have to plant the explosives while the building was on fire.

 

[eots]

We all know that there wasn't sufficient evidence to convict Bin Laden with the attacks. It doesn't mean that it was an inside job. Al Qeada could have very well perpetrated it without him. He has though admitted to it on numerous occasions:
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Bin Laden video threatens America
Bin Laden says he ordered 9/11 attacks
The Guardian's Timeline of the tapes
Osama claims responsibility for 9/11-Rest of World-World-The Times of India
I would have to see proof that all of these are fakes in order to not believe them.

yes I am glad you agree the bin laden story is a unproven conspiracy..theory and not a substantiated fact