Founding Fathers: We Are Not a Christian Nation

[JakeStarkey]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

 

[80zephyr]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

 

[mikegriffith1]

How about some real history, not your cherry-picked distortion?

America Not a Christian Nation

In Holy Trinity v. U.S., the Supreme Court did an exhaustive study of this issue and concluded--no, showed--that America was founded as a Christian nation.

Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States 143 U.S. 457 1892 Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center

 

[WinterBorn]

If Christianity is not the ruling religion, then our gov't is not a Christian gov't. In that case, as I have said before, we are a secular nation that is predominantly Christian by population. The nation (laws, gov't ect) is not Christian.

Jesus Christ! Christianity isn't ruling and I've said about five times now that the government is secular. The culture Christian, not the government. Although there are many examples of government doing Christian things they aren't passing Christian law (except for the local blue laws I mentioned) because even Christians aren't living under the law. There is NO Christian Law.

Then, by your definition, we are a secular nation that is predominantly Christian. That is far different than being a Christian nation. The OP was trying to prove that our gov't was formed as a Christian organization.

You and I have been agreeing.

So, what you are saying is if Syria adopted an official Christian religion tomorrow, and all the Muslims there still practiced Islam and still beheaded gays and kept their women covered in burka's, that the new government of Syria would be acknowledged by the left as the head of a Christian nation?

That does seem to be the problem with the left. They do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy.

Mark

First of all, I am not "the left".

Second of all, if they adopted Christianity as the official state religion,there would be no more beheadings or women covered in burkas.

 

[WinterBorn]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

 

[JakeStarkey]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.Mark

You are dumb, your words, whether you said it or night.

You don't get to revise history without you being forced to eat your words.

Just the way it is, podjo.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How about some real history, not your cherry-picked distortion?

America Not a Christian Nation

In Holy Trinity v. U.S., the Supreme Court did an exhaustive study of this issue and concluded--no, showed--that America was founded as a Christian nation.

Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States 143 U.S. 457 1892 Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center

And Congress and SCOTUS since then have slowly turned their backs on it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Constitution is, of course, a secular document that clearly separates church and state. The USA is not a Christian nation.

 

[80zephyr]

If Christianity is not the ruling religion, then our gov't is not a Christian gov't. In that case, as I have said before, we are a secular nation that is predominantly Christian by population. The nation (laws, gov't ect) is not Christian.

Jesus Christ! Christianity isn't ruling and I've said about five times now that the government is secular. The culture Christian, not the government. Although there are many examples of government doing Christian things they aren't passing Christian law (except for the local blue laws I mentioned) because even Christians aren't living under the law. There is NO Christian Law.

Then, by your definition, we are a secular nation that is predominantly Christian. That is far different than being a Christian nation. The OP was trying to prove that our gov't was formed as a Christian organization.

You and I have been agreeing.

So, what you are saying is if Syria adopted an official Christian religion tomorrow, and all the Muslims there still practiced Islam and still beheaded gays and kept their women covered in burka's, that the new government of Syria would be acknowledged by the left as the head of a Christian nation?

That does seem to be the problem with the left. They do have a hard time separating reality from fantasy.

Mark

First of all, I am not "the left".

Second of all, if they adopted Christianity as the official state religion,there would be no more beheadings or women covered in burkas.

What we have already shown is that what a country adopts is in no way, shape or form, how the people live.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.Mark

You are dumb, your words, whether you said it or night.

You don't get to revise history without you being forced to eat your words.

Just the way it is, podjo.

I am not revising history. You are. Written words are not history. Actions are. If "what is written" in no way mirrors reality, reality always overrides the written word.

Words are not actions. Actions are what are historical.

Mark

 

[WinterBorn]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation.

Mark

What?? Why would they have to outlaw religions? The gov't is secular. It does not require the citizens to be.

By your logic, if it were a Christian nation it would have had to outlaw every other religion.

 

[koshergrl]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation.

Mark

What?? Why would they have to outlaw religions? The gov't is secular. It does not require the citizens to be.

By your logic, if it were a Christian nation it would have had to outlaw every other religion.

Ok that doesn't follow at all.

 

[80zephyr]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers.

If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation.

Mark

What?? Why would they have to outlaw religions? The gov't is secular. It does not require the citizens to be.

By your logic, if it were a Christian nation it would have had to outlaw every other religion.

Remember the question.

Was the US founded as a Christian nation.

The day before the signing of the Constitution, any thinking person would have described America as a Christian nation. The day of the signing, nothing concrete changed. People lived exactly like they did the day before.

I have already given examples of using words to describe a nation that they didn't live by. What do you not understand?

If Attila the Hun wrote a book and said he was a peaceful person, does his words speak louder than his actions?

Mark

 

[JakeStarkey]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation. Mark

Mark, I am beginning to have some hope for you.

Yes, as the Adams who founded the graduate medieval literature program at Harvard allegedly said learning to ask the right questions is the right approach. However, in your case, you don't know the right terms pertaining to the Constitution. The document defines federalism: the governance of a political body divided between two authorities; in this case, the entities were the national and state governments. In 1789, the national government had no power to regulate religious matters in the various states, only for the national government. That would change over time, and the states themselves ended established religions at their levels. Thus we are a nation generally of Christians, but never a Christian nation.

 

[jc456]

Yea look at our national holidays like Christmas and good Friday,do we have a national Muslim day?

Good Friday is not a national holiday.

Labor Day is, however. A national holiday for labor. I guess that makes the United States officially a pro-labor nation.

was Good Friday ever a national holiday?

 

[80zephyr]

False comparison of derivative analogies: fail.

The nation was founded on a secular Constitution.

Many of the states remained religious for almost fifty years.

Generally, as the 21st Century moves along, we are becoming less a nation generally of Christians.

Translation: I would look really dumb if I said that.

Mark

Are you saying that the US Constitution is not a secular document? And if it is a secular document, then the gov't formed based on it would be secular as well.

If you ask the wrong questions, you'll get the wrong answers. If the US was founded as a secular nation, they would have had to outlaw the official religions in every state. They did not. Therefore, their words, while appealing, did not make the US a secular nation. Mark

Mark, I am beginning to have some hope for you.

Yes, as the Adams who founded the graduate medieval literature program at Harvard allegedly said learning to ask the right questions is the right approach. However, in your case, you don't know the right terms pertaining to the Constitution. The document defines federalism: the governance of a political body divided between two authorities; in this case, the entities were the national and state governments. In 1789, the national government had no power to regulate religious matters in the various states, only for the national government. That would change over time, and the states themselves ended established religions at their levels. Thus we are a nation generally of Christians, but never a Christian nation.

Yes, it would "change over time", and I believe that change was a direct contradiction of what the founders intended.

One of which was freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

Mark

 

[Lakhota]

There are several religions practiced in the United States - and the U.S. Constitution protects ALL of them - including Islam. No preferences are given.

 

[The Rabbi]

There are several religions practiced in the United States - and the U.S. Constitution protects ALL of them - including Islam. No preferences are given.

Except Christianity. It doesnt really protect that.

 

[initforme]

We may be founded on Christian principles and if we are then we surely don't adhere to actual Christian principles. We do everything to help the very wealthy and zero, nothing for the rest. Its been this way since the early 80's. Its all about greed and the dollar. The country is based on the dollar and the almighty buck. Those with the most call the shots. Call it truly, truly opposite of what the bible calls for. Indisputable.