Former CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield: "COVID-19 more likely was the result of an accidental lab leak..."

[Drop Dead Fred]

Huge numbers of people have been censored, suspended, and/or banned from different social media websites for saying this. They weren't censored for lying. They were censored for telling what seems to be a likely truth. How about we let all opinions be stated, and let the truth eventually float to the top?

Former CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield: "Based on my initial analysis of the data, I came to believe and I still believe today that it indicates that COVID-19 more likely was the result of an accidental lab leak than a result of a natural spillover event."

 

[gipper]

How does this happen in the Land of the Free and home of the First Amendment?

 

[kyzr]

Redfield also said the the Wuhan Lab Covid GOF research wasn't just funded by NIH, but also by State and DOD?! WTF???

 

[frigidweirdo]

Huge numbers of people have been censored, suspended, and/or banned from different social media websites for saying this. They weren't censored for lying. They were censored for telling what seems to be a likely truth. How about we let all opinions be stated, and let the truth eventually float to the top?

Former CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield: "Based on my initial analysis of the data, I came to believe and I still believe today that it indicates that COVID-19 more likely was the result of an accidental lab leak than a result of a natural spillover event."

The problem with "the truth" is that only China knows what that is. We can't get to the data.

All we can do is speculate.
1) Why has China hidden the origins, whatever they are, of Covid19?
2) How safe are Chinese laboratories in containing such things?

For this one we know, not very good. There was a leak in Gansu before the coronavirus that leaked some animal virus.

3) Why did it happen in Wuhan?
A lot of "we don't know", and "it could be this".

 

[Muhammed]

Redfield also said the the Wuhan Lab Covid GOF research wasn't just funded by NIH, but also by State and DOD?! WTF???

The US deep state was working in partnership with the Chinese. It's looking like the project began in the lab at Fort Detrick, Maryland and was moved to Wuhan, China.

They genetically engineered a new virus by splicing together a horseshoe bat respiratory virus with the HIV virus in order for the respiratory virus to gain the function of being able to infect humans.

HIV infection initially causes mild flu-like symptoms and then goes into dormancy for several years. After that it causes full-blown AIDS.

They may have genetically engineered airborne AIDS. Only time will tell.

 

[Kruska]

The problem with "the truth" is that only China knows what that is. We can't get to the data.

And China itself does not know - once they know they will state it publicly - no matter in which direction the issue proves to be.
So far the CPC has cleary stated that is due to the animal-human chain - supported in majority and rejected in minority by the worlds scientists.
Logically the CPC will never allow for an "outsider" to be the first, to publish an undeniable truth in case of a Lab-leak.

For this one we know, not very good. There was a leak in Gansu before the coronavirus that leaked some animal virus.

There have been dozens of such leaks in the USA, Europe, all over the world. Nothing is foolproof.

3) Why did it happen in Wuhan?

That is indeed the big question - as towards the big public known outbreak. The Wuhan fish-market and it's immediate surrounding residents were identified as the primary/initial spreading place (5km away from the lab).

Other reliable and questionable scientific sources have stated that this virus had caused fatalities in e.g. Italy and e.g. the USA in the range of March to September 2019.

So the "speculation" goes on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And China itself does not know - once they know they will state it publicly - no matter in which direction the issue proves to be.
So far the CPC has cleary stated that is due to the animal-human chain - supported in majority and rejected in minority by the worlds scientists.
Logically the CPC will never allow for an "outsider" to be the first, to publish an undeniable truth in case of a Lab-leak.

There have been dozens of such leaks in the USA, Europe, all over the world. Nothing is foolproof.

That is indeed the big question - as towards the big public known outbreak. The Wuhan fish-market and it's immediate surrounding residents were identified as the primary/initial spreading place (5km away from the lab).

Other reliable and questionable scientific sources have stated that this virus had caused fatalities in e.g. Italy and e.g. the USA in the range of March to September 2019.

So the "speculation" goes on.

I doubt that very much.

Firstly you need to look at how China gets its legitimacy. Because all governments need legitimacy. In countries with elections, the election provides that legitimacy, unless someone shouts out loud enough that the elections weren't legitimate.

China doesn't have elections. It has a party that's been in charge for nearly 75 years, and it does whatever it likes. However people do protest and they fear that they could lose their legitimacy.

With the Covid 19 outbreak the leaders in Wuhan were too scared to tell Beijing what was happening. Why? Because there always has to be a fall guy. It CANNOT be the guy at the top of the pyramid. It has to be someone else. And these guys knew this. So they tried to hide it and make it go away.

What were they hiding?

They could have been hiding:
1) The lab that does coronavirus research had a leak.
Feasible because it's happened in Gansu and not many people died, so they could be honest about it, most people wouldn't have known or cared about this one, it doesn't impact legitimacy.
2) The wet market took in animals that had the coronavirus infection and it jumped to humans and stayed jumped.
Feasible, Chinese sanitary conditions are poor at best, such wet markets are even worse. People spitting all over the place, coughing out into the air, all kinds of animals kept in tubs and all manner of "whatever works, we'll use" kind of attitude. Money rules, sanitary conditions... what the fuck are those?
3) The US somehow went to China and released a coronavirus.
Totally unfeasible. If the US were going to do this, the potential for reaching the US was HIGH, so the US must have had a back up plan (read 'vaccine') beforehand. It didn't. Also why attack China with something that wouldn't be considered that deadly, if you wanted to destroy an enemy country, there would be far better things to do.

So, we have two feasible outcomes. One of which is about wet markets. The local government wouldn't have known anything, so why try and hide it? The other they might have known, and they'd know that theory is far more toxic for the legitimacy of the government, and legitimacy of their own jobs.

Then we can look at what China is saying NOW. If it were just a wet market case, China would have poured in people from all over to say that it was just a mistake, we've closed the wet markets down, we've done what needed to be done, we're sorry. Maybe. Perhaps saving face would come into this. Perhaps they'd see the wet market as people looking at China and saying they're unsanitary and it was all China's fault.

With a leak, that's a big thing. Because there's no way to hide that, except by refusing anyone to come in and take a look.

And speculation will go on, because China isn't telling us what it knows. And it's not doing so because it knows.....

On my Facebook feed I got from Xinhua (read, Chinese govt mouthpiece)

"If you need political ammunition, don't take ridiculous stuff like the China Lab Leak Theory, which has been long dead and buried (by WHO, by the way).
It only shows how desperate you are."

This is what the wrote with it.
They're saying that the theory it leaked from a lab is "ridiculous". It's not "ridiculous", it might be "ridiculous" if we had any of the information, but we don't. It's feasible, and as long as they hide it, it will be there to attack China with.
It hasn't been "long dead and buried", this is just the sort of language the Chinese like to use. They will lie, they will cheat, as long as their own legitimacy is open.

The WHO has said a lot of things, but has NOT buried this theory at all, how could they, China won't let them.
Desperate? Who is desperate? Well, it seems like those who are posting such cartoons and using such language, typical "we know the truth, but we're going to manipulate the people" sort of language China uses ALL THE TIME. Even when you KNOW what they're saying is a crock of shit.
Like when Xi said, back in the autumn, that only the CCP could have had the success China has achieved up to that point. Bullshit, Macao, Hong Kong AND Taiwan were all MORE SUCCESSFUL than the CCP at pushing the country forwards economically and socially.

 

[Billiejeens]

I think at this point the only disputed point is whether the virus leaving the lab was an accident or was it intentional?

 

[scruffy]

And China itself does not know - once they know they will state it publicly - no matter in which direction the issue proves to be.

So far the CPC has cleary stated that is due to the animal-human chain - supported in majority and rejected in minority by the worlds scientists.

Funny boy.

Logically the CPC will never allow for an "outsider" to be the first, to publish an undeniable truth in case of a Lab-leak.

No one cares what the CPC will allow.

There have been dozens of such leaks in the USA, Europe, all over the world. Nothing is foolproof.

BULLSHIT

That is indeed the big question - as towards the big public known outbreak. The Wuhan fish-market and it's immediate surrounding residents were identified as the primary/initial spreading place (5km away from the lab).

It's not a question. People became ill prior to the wet market outbreak. End of story.

Other reliable and questionable scientific sources have stated that this virus had caused fatalities in e.g. Italy and e.g. the USA in the range of March to September 2019.

So the "speculation" goes on.

We are not confused.

 

[Kruska]

China doesn't have elections. It has a party that's been in charge for nearly 75 years, and it does whatever it likes. However people do protest and they fear that they could lose their legitimacy.

This issue has nothing to do with China's political system - democracies are proofed to have and are constantly denying and lying.

With the Covid 19 outbreak the leaders in Wuhan were too scared to tell Beijing what was happening. Why? Because there always has to be a fall guy. It CANNOT be the guy at the top of the pyramid. It has to be someone else. And these guys knew this. So they tried to hide it and make it go away.

This is a typical Western narrative: "They" were not afraid - but simply did not pay enough attention/careless towards a possible outbreak, at the time in regards to a totally unknown virus. I live in China and therefore I know exactly the timelines and as to what was done and not done.
This "reprimanded" scientist (had corresponded for about 4-5 weeks with colleges - making use of the inter-hospital information site) In the same week China officially
forwarded the gen sequenced information to WHO - he went public.

Since he wasn't a member in the official investigation team - he didn't know about research results that had already been obtained 10 day's before he went public.

Unlike many other countries China does not allow for invalid/false or incomplete information to cause public unrest - he didn't serve any higher purpose by going public - aside creating unrest.

The Lanzhou lab (actually it is a factory-plant) incident was never covered up - it was openly admitted by the local authorities. Both government and the emission causer apologized publicly.

This is what the wrote with it.
They're saying that the theory it leaked from a lab is "ridiculous". It's not "ridiculous", it might be "ridiculous" if we had any of the information, but we don't. It's feasible, and as long as they hide it, it will be there to attack China with.
It hasn't been "long dead and buried", this is just the sort of language the Chinese like to use. They will lie, they will cheat, as long as their own legitimacy is open.

Off course from the point of view prevailing in China - the lab-leak theory is regarded as being ridiculous. And Chinese media just as the Western media also writes a lot the whole day long.

The official statement by the CPC is;
Independent scientists, the international Wuhan lab commission and the WHO have determined the virus to be most likely of zoonotic origin. China agrees towards these findings and invests further means to investigate towards the origins within the zoonotic chain.

As for the lab-leak theory - you seem to have forgotten that Trump brought this up - no one else at the time (say's already everything since he was aware about US government involvement at the lab - speculating himself towards a possible man made virus enhancement). There is no proof so far for this - no proof at all. - only speculation.

After the international Wuhan commissions findings - the entire topic went back towards concentrating onto the zoonotic cause. - the prevailing political situation in the USA, Biden/Trump has resurfaced this "theory - speculation" simply because these two and their hardcore followers want to make use of this matter solely for their own respective political agendas.

 

[scruffy]

The official statement by the CPC is;
Independent scientists, the international Wuhan lab commission and the WHO have determined the virus to be most likely of zoonotic origin. China agrees towards these findings and invests further means to investigate towards the origins within the zoonotic chain.

I'll give you thanks and brownie points for carefully remaining within the boundaries.

However I will say this in general terms: the party is way too ignorant to be running P4 facilities. The CPC should keep its unqualified nose out of the virology business.

 

[there4eyeM]

The C.C.P. is reliable and trustworthy; that is to say, one can absolutely count on it to protect its interests as it sees them and say whatever is necessary to advance those interests. "Truth" has never been more 'relative' than in its hands.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This issue has nothing to do with China's political system - democracies are proofed to have and are constantly denying and lying.

This is a typical Western narrative: "They" were not afraid - but simply did not pay enough attention/careless towards a possible outbreak, at the time in regards to a totally unknown virus. I live in China and therefore I know exactly the timelines and as to what was done and not done.
This "reprimanded" scientist (had corresponded for about 4-5 weeks with colleges - making use of the inter-hospital information site) In the same week China officially
forwarded the gen sequenced information to WHO - he went public.

Since he wasn't a member in the official investigation team - he didn't know about research results that had already been obtained 10 day's before he went public.

Unlike many other countries China does not allow for invalid/false or incomplete information to cause public unrest - he didn't serve any higher purpose by going public - aside creating unrest.

The Lanzhou lab (actually it is a factory-plant) incident was never covered up - it was openly admitted by the local authorities. Both government and the emission causer apologized publicly.

Off course from the point of view prevailing in China - the lab-leak theory is regarded as being ridiculous. And Chinese media just as the Western media also writes a lot the whole day long.

The official statement by the CPC is;
Independent scientists, the international Wuhan lab commission and the WHO have determined the virus to be most likely of zoonotic origin. China agrees towards these findings and invests further means to investigate towards the origins within the zoonotic chain.

As for the lab-leak theory - you seem to have forgotten that Trump brought this up - no one else at the time (say's already everything since he was aware about US government involvement at the lab - speculating himself towards a possible man made virus enhancement). There is no proof so far for this - no proof at all. - only speculation.

After the international Wuhan commissions findings - the entire topic went back towards concentrating onto the zoonotic cause. - the prevailing political situation in the USA, Biden/Trump has resurfaced this "theory - speculation" simply because these two and their hardcore followers want to make use of this matter solely for their own respective political agendas.

You're wrong.
China does allow for invalid, incomplete information. Sure, they don't want to "cause public unrest", that part of your statement is a very Chinese statement. It looks like it says one thing, but if you look at it, it says something else.

The Chinese government WILL lie to keep the power. I gave you an example of the president saying only the CCP could have brought China to this point. What a load of crap, seeing how three other areas are ABOVE that and all part of what the CCP consider "China", but all didn't have the CCP under Mao.
So what's the difference between Gansu and Wuhan?
Probably because of what happened with SARS. One was an incident they could just not report much of. There's a difference between covering something up, and just not reporting it much. How many Chinese people do you think know it happened? Outside of Gansu, very, very few.
No, I haven't forgotten Trump brought up that it might have come from a lab. Trump did so much hard to this, and China is trying to say "well, Trump's no honest, so it must be fake" while at the same time BLAMING THE USA for it. Oh, those lies they peddle, knowing they're lies, and they don't cause "unrest" in China because they can't attack the US in China. But still blatant lies that firemen or policemen brought the virus over. Had they done so, there'd have been an outbreak in the US FIRST, there wasn't.

The "international Wuhan commission" as you call it was a sham. It was a "you can come in, you can report a little of what we show you, but we're not showing you much in the first place, just do as you're told, this is China and fuck you the WHO if you go against us".

 

[Kruska]

I'll give you thanks and brownie points for carefully remaining within the boundaries.

However I will say this in general terms: the party is way too ignorant to be running P4 facilities. The CPC should keep its unqualified nose out of the virology business.

Thanks, but I don't remain in boundaries at all - I state my opinion towards a respective topic and can back it up with facts/sources.

The CPC party, doesn't run bio-labs - just like any other ruling government party, it has it's departments that are responsible for their respective fields.
The US Republican party or the US Democrats party e.g. doesn't run those 46 US Military-Funded Bio labs in Ukraine or any other lab.

Research labs worldwide are headed and supervised, by government related public institutes, private Bio-chemical enterprises, University Faculties (in all three the
vast majority of scientists in China are not even party members) and last not least the Military.
All (aside maybe North-Korea) are in constant exchange on whatever level - with international organizations and companies. China therefore knows very well, how a P4 facility
is equipped and run according to international safety standards.

Unfortunately no country on this planet - not even a carmaker, can exclude human error or a technical malfunction.
And again: there simply isn't enough proof to verify a lab-leak, but there is a lot of research that can dismiss such a speculation - totally out-rule?, obviously not.

 

[scruffy]

China therefore knows very well, how a P4 facility
is equipped and run according to international safety standards.

Well, ... oops.

Unfortunately no country on this planet - not even a carmaker, can exclude human error or a technical malfunction.

Failure to adhere to protocol is not "error". It usually means either laziness or working under pressure, and in this case there is indirect evidence it's the latter.

And again: there simply isn't enough proof to verify a lab-leak, but there is a lot of research that can dismiss such a speculation - totally out-rule?, obviously not.

I've worked in a P4 facility. There is no such thing as a lab "leak", the protocols are extreme. Really, the only way to get something out of there is inside a person.

 

[Kruska]

The Chinese government WILL lie to keep the power. I gave you an example of the president saying only the CCP could have brought China to this point. What a load of crap, seeing how three other areas are ABOVE that and all part of what the CCP consider "China", but all didn't have the CCP under Mao.

It's a fact that only an autocratic system could have brought up a country like China within 40 years to the level they now posses. Look at India, Indonesia, Brazil, etc.
That the party is called CPC - well, that is your obvious personal problem.

 

[Kruska]

Failure to adhere to protocol is not "error". It usually means either laziness or working under pressure, and in this case there is indirect evidence it's the latter.

Let's not split hairs - it runs under human error.

If a vital safety part of a car doesn't function - it's due to human error = not following existing manufacturing protocols and safety guidelines.
According to ISO, DIN and Kaizen, Six-Sigma, etc, - such occurrences are impossible. Impossible however only in theory.

It wouldn't exclude someone coming up claiming - it was sabotage a deliberate action by someone. If so, well that someone would need to come up with proof.
Otherwise it's just a dumb speculation.

 

[scruffy]

It's a fact that only an autocratic system could have brought up a country like China within 40 years to the level they now posses.

All such systems eventually implode.

Look at India, Indonesia, Brazil, etc.

Singapore.

That the party is called CPC - well, that is your obvious personal problem.

lol

I'm sure no one cares what it's called.

I know a lot about the CPC, much more than I can tell. They leveraged the old Tong networks and now they're in just about every population center everywhere in the world. "Our" intelligence network is formidable, theirs is astounding.

Which is why, one has no choice but to conclude that the PTB were taken by surprise and "panicked" propaganda-wise, because if they'd had more time they could have come up with a better story.

 

[scruffy]

Let's not split hairs - it runs under human error.

If a vital safety part of a car doesn't function - it's due to human error = not following existing manufacturing protocols and safety guidelines.
According to ISO, DIN and Kaizen, Six-Sigma, etc, - such occurrences are impossible. Impossible however only in theory.

It wouldn't exclude someone coming up claiming - it was sabotage a deliberate action by someone. If so, well that someone would need to come up with proof.
Otherwise it's just a dumb speculation.

No. Once someone breaks a beaker, one of two things happens. Either

A. alarms go off and the person is quarantined and the lab disinfected, or

B. the person panics and hides it and tries to cover it up

Option (a) means the lab shuts down for a while, and usually there is publicity around it.

Option (b) means work can continue, and in a good world "only" the infected person will become ill from the "mere" coronavirus.

 

[sparky]

C19 was an engineered virus inclusive of a genome specifically targeting humans. This is biological warfare cloaked in the guise of some politically correct GOF term

That this is allowed to exist at all is the Q that need to be asked

the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) bans the development, production, acquisition, transfer, stockpiling and use of biological weapons.

~S~