For Those With High End Stereo Systems...

[007]

Taking my home theater system to the next level, since I have my best pair of speakers in that system, I have just added, "bought," a new amp. A Rotel RB-1590. 700 watts RMS bridged with two toroidial transformers, one for each channel, and why I like the Rotel is because it has two sets of binding posts for each channel so I can biamp/biwire my front LR speakers. There's a huge debate that goes on as to whether or not that's advantageous but I won't get into that now, but I believe it sounds better to biamp.

In any case, got an excellent buy on a lightly used, new, demo unit from a Rotel dealer, $1,300 off the retail price. It's on the way and I can't wait to power my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's with it via Audioquest Mackenzie XLR cables from my Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 home theater receiver, which has balanced XLR pre outs for front L&R. This will wake up my B&W like nothing else since they are rather power hungry speakers, and make the Amazon Music Unlimited HD and Ultra HD streaming music sound awesome...

Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[007]

 

[007]

Have you heard the new Rolling Stones tune? I'm not a huge Stones fan, although there are songs of their's I like, they're legends, but this new one isn't bad. I kinda like it, and bless their souls for as OLD as they are to still make some good music... beats the shit otta the cookie cutter pop garbage...

 

[fncceo]

My latest project is building my own amplifier based on an EC82 triode/tetrode.

Can't wait to see if I can hear the difference between that and my Onkyo.

 

[okfine]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

 

[toobfreak]

Taking my home theater system to the next level, since I have my best pair of speakers in that system, I have just added, "bought," a new amp. A Rotel RB-1590. 700 watts RMS bridged with two toroidial transformers, one for each channel, and why I like the Rotel is because it has two sets of binding posts for each channel so I can biamp/biwire my front LR speakers. There's a huge debate that goes on as to whether or not that's advantageous but I won't get into that now, but I believe it sounds better to biamp.

In any case, got an excellent buy on a lightly used, new, demo unit from a Rotel dealer, $1,300 off the retail price. It's on the way and I can't wait to power my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's with it via Audioquest Mackenzie XLR cables from my Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 home theater receiver, which has balanced XLR pre outs for front L&R. This will wake up my B&W like nothing else since they are rather power hungry speakers, and make the Amazon Music Unlimited HD and Ultra HD streaming music sound awesome...

Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

OK, so you're not really asking anything here just telling us. Alright then, just a few thoughts:

1. We're not really talking high-end here. What you are describing is mid-fi. Nice stuff, but the Rotel is made in China and the Yamaha is an integrated home theater receiver. That'll be your biggest liability. You are giving up sound quality for convenience.
2. So you bought TWO Rotels and are bridging them each, one for each channel?
3. There seems to be some confusion here, 007. Biwiring and Biamping are two different things. Biwiring? It's your money. No advantage. Bi-amping is splitting the frequency allotment via a divider network and sending the high frequencies/treble to one power amp, the low frequencies to a 2nd power amp, then sending each to the requisite channel on each side, assuming the loudspeaker has provision to divide the crossover to isolate the drivers to be fed independently via separate inputs. Now you have FOUR mono power amps per system or a pair of stereo power amps for four channels. Doesn't sound like you are doing that unless I've missed a detail. But yes, that is the hot set-up, even better to tri-amp or quad-amp. The advantage to bi-amping is that it relieves both the power supply and the circuitry of the strain of dealing with a composite load as the demands for bass are quite different than they are for high frequencies.
4. The B&Ws are nice little speakers but really need to be up on stands if they are to be used for front channel home theater. You make no mention of a center channel. And if you are going to put the B&Ws on stands, then you'll need to consider adding an adequate sub.
5. A system is defined by its preamp. Since you are using a home theater receiver as your preamp, that will be the greatest bottle to your sound. If you can, you'd be better to treat the music system as a separate system apart from your home theater. With a little work, it's possible to do that with just one common set of speakers for both, but as it stands, it sounds like you are setting up a rather nice home theater for TV and movies that you'll also play music through, and with the Rotel(s), will get good volume and a pretty full hi-fi sound. Nice.

 

[Rambunctious]

Have you heard the new Rolling Stones tune? I'm not a huge Stones fan, although there are songs of their's I like, they're legends, but this new one isn't bad. I kinda like it, and bless their souls for as OLD as they are to still make some good music... beats the shit otta the cookie cutter pop garbage...

Yeah I heard it the other day...good tune and the perfect covid song....

 

[007]

Taking my home theater system to the next level, since I have my best pair of speakers in that system, I have just added, "bought," a new amp. A Rotel RB-1590. 700 watts RMS bridged with two toroidial transformers, one for each channel, and why I like the Rotel is because it has two sets of binding posts for each channel so I can biamp/biwire my front LR speakers. There's a huge debate that goes on as to whether or not that's advantageous but I won't get into that now, but I believe it sounds better to biamp.

In any case, got an excellent buy on a lightly used, new, demo unit from a Rotel dealer, $1,300 off the retail price. It's on the way and I can't wait to power my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's with it via Audioquest Mackenzie XLR cables from my Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 home theater receiver, which has balanced XLR pre outs for front L&R. This will wake up my B&W like nothing else since they are rather power hungry speakers, and make the Amazon Music Unlimited HD and Ultra HD streaming music sound awesome...

Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rotel Rb-1590 Stereo Power Amplifier at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

OK, so you're not really asking anything here just telling us. Alright then, just a few thoughts:

1. We're not really talking high-end here. What you are describing is mid-fi. Nice stuff, but the Rotel is made in China and the Yamaha is an integrated home theater receiver. That'll be your biggest liability. You are giving up sound quality for convenience.
2. So you bought TWO Rotels and are bridging them each, one for each channel?
3. There seems to be some confusion here, 007. Biwiring and Biamping are two different things. Biwiring? It's your money. No advantage. Bi-amping is splitting the frequency allotment via a divider network and sending the high frequencies/treble to one power amp, the low frequencies to a 2nd power amp, then sending each to the requisite channel on each side, assuming the loudspeaker has provision to divide the crossover to isolate the drivers to be fed independently via separate inputs. Now you have FOUR mono power amps per system or a pair of stereo power amps for four channels. Doesn't sound like you are doing that unless I've missed a detail. But yes, that is the hot set-up, even better to tri-amp or quad-amp. The advantage to bi-amping is that it relieves both the power supply and the circuitry of the strain of dealing with a composite load as the demands for bass are quite different than they are for high frequencies.
4. The B&Ws are nice little speakers but really need to be up on stands if they are to be used for front channel home theater. You make no mention of a center channel. And if you are going to put the B&Ws on stands, then you'll need to consider adding an adequate sub.
5. A system is defined by its preamp. Since you are using a home theater receiver as your preamp, that will be the greatest bottle to your sound. If you can, you'd be better to treat the music system as a separate system apart from your home theater. With a little work, it's possible to do that with just one common set of speakers for both, but as it stands, it sounds like you are setting up a rather nice home theater for TV and movies that you'll also play music through, and with the Rotel(s), will get good volume and a pretty full hi-fi sound. Nice.

OK... you sound like an audiophile, so let's go through this here...

1, yes, the Rotel is currently made in China, WHAT ISN'T, and yes it is considered mid-fi. The Yamaha is also a home theater receiver, but it's the RX-A3080 which is their flagship home theater receiver, and it does have balanced XLR pre outs for front L-R, so for two channel listening, that is an asset, not a liability.

2, I bought one Rotel RB-1590 "stereo," two channel amplifier. I'll use it for two channel listening. I'll feed the signal to it with a set of Audioquest Mackenzie XLR male to female cables, and I will biamp my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's. Now, I've had this conversation many times with others on audiophile websites about what biamping and what biwiring is, and technically I know that I'm not biamping my speakers. I'd have to have a separate amp to power each set of terminals on the speakers, not just using the separate sets of terminals coming of a single amp. But the Rotel does have two toroidial transformers, one for each channel.

3, some will debate whether or not there is an advantage to biamping/biwiring until the cows come home, but in my opinion, I hear a difference, since the woofers take up 70% of the power fed to a speaker, when you eliminate the connecting strap between the binding posts on a speaker, then each part of the cross over network is then getting it's own power supply. The tweeter isn't getting it's signal bled down when the music hits some big bass notes. That is why higher end speakers do give you the choice to separate the power to the bass speakers and the mid/tweeter, or better yet, as you mentioned, even triamp them. The tweeter, the mid and the bass all get their own power supply.

4, my Bowers & Wilkins are CM-10 S2's. They're the flagship tower speaker for B&W in their CM model line up. They stand about 44" tall to the tip of the decoupled tweeter on top, and they have what's called a Plinth on the bottom, which you either use or not use. I use it because I want the extra weight to the speaker to eliminate as much vibration as possible. They were $4,000 for the pair, so they're not exactly your cheap pair of Cerwin Vega party speakers. I have the newer matching edition Bowers & Wilkins HTM71 center channel with the newer carbon tweeter and Continuum mid. That was $1,500. A very natural sounding speaker, no coloration noticeable, which is what I prefer. When placing speakers, if they're bookshelf style smaller speakers, yes, the need to be on stand, because you want the tweeter to be at ear level. I have B&W DM-602 S3's for surrounds. Another pair of great sounding speakers in my opinion. I also have an SVS PB-2000 subwoofer that I have placed on a slab of inch thick granite to ground it. 1050 watts peak of Class AB, digitally controlled, push pull power, and it will shake plaster off the walls.

5, I'm adding the Rotel because I not only use the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 for home theater, but Yamaha did have the sense to add balanced XLR pre outs for "only" front LR. They probably knew that some would use those for 2 channel listening and add a decent amp, and that's what I've done. The Rotel is far from a $35,000 McIntosh, or any of the other amplifiers that cost more than a house. But for what I'm doing, the Rotel with dual transformers and 350 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms of Class AB power, it's going to really wake up my B&W CM-10's which do love power, and the Amazon streaming HD and Ultra HD music is going to sound pretty dang good.

I've been at this for a long time. I've owned a lot of crap in my life and I just keep upgrading within my budget. The system in front of me right now, once the Rotel is sitting there, should be here next week, is north of $13,000 worth of stuff when you throw in the cost of cables and 65" LG 4K TV and what not, so even though that really is still considered "mid-fi", I know NO ONE that's got a better system. Most of the people I know look at what I have and think I'm nuts for spending the money I have on it.

I also have a Yamaha Natural Sound Integrated Amplifier A-S801 that I power another pair of Bowers & Wilkins DM-604 S3's with, and the reason I bought that integrated amp was because that model Yamaha comes with a built in DAC, so I ran an Audioquest USB A to B cable straight out of the computer, bypassing any nasty sound processing in the computer, and streaming right off the internet into the amp, and that's as clean as it can get and it sounds wonderful. I might add a digital streamer to the front theater instead of using my Dell laptop with an HDMI to the Yamaha, which isn't bad, but a network streamer, like the Cambridge Audio CXN, which is a popular one, again, would bypass the onboard sound processing.

Good to have a talk with another person that knows a little audio. Not too many people that care or know jack squat.

When I was researching the Rotel RB-1590, I found this video on youtube, and it's basically exactly what I have, the amp, and the B&W CM-10's...

 

[toobfreak]

OK... you sound like an audiophile, so let's go through this here...

You could probably say that since I've designed and built my own audio gear and have helped design the pro sound system for places like this:

1, yes, the Rotel is currently made in China, WHAT ISN'T

Actually, none of the 20 main pieces in my music system are China sourced. But no matter.

The Yamaha is also a home theater receiver, but it's the RX-A3080 which is their flagship home theater receiver, and it does have balanced XLR pre outs for front L-R, so for two channel listening, that is an asset, not a liability.

Flagship or not, 007, I'm just telling you that no home theater receiver alive is a great musical amplifier. They are packed full of cramped microprocessor and op-amp controlled amp and DSP processors for stupid sound effects and so forth. It will be convenient for you but don't expect the same sound quality as a purest dedicated audio preamp with simple signal path. The main advantage of the balanced (XLR) circuitry to quieter background / lower hum, by using isolated floating ground topography. Nice if you got it, but doesn't really improve the musicality of the system.

2, I bought one Rotel RB-1590 "stereo," two channel amplifier. I'll use it for two channel listening. I'll feed the signal to it with a set of Audioquest Mackenzie XLR male to female cables, and I will biamp my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's. Now, I've had this conversation many times with others on audiophile websites about what biamping and what biwiring is, and technically I know that I'm not biamping my speakers. I'd have to have a separate amp to power each set of terminals on the speakers, not just using the separate sets of terminals coming of a single amp. But the Rotel does have two toroidial transformers, one for each channel.

1. I kinda figured you weren't using two bridged Rotels as you'll never feed 700W (rms?) into those speakers.
2. Cables are an expensive consumer marketing gimmick. Believe me, really good sounding gear will blow you away even if wired with CAT 5 or lampcord.
3. Again, fine if the Rotel uses two physically complete P/S for each channel, but again, not a NECESSITY, if all is designed right. Maybe a bigger factor for a bipolar transistor amp.

3, some will debate whether or not there is an advantage to biamping/biwiring until the cows come home, but in my opinion, I hear a difference, since the woofers take up 70% of the power fed to a speaker, when you eliminate the connecting strap between the binding posts on a speaker, then each part of the cross over network is then getting it's own power supply. The tweeter isn't getting it's signal bled down when the music hits some big bass notes. That is why higher end speakers do give you the choice to separate the power to the bass speakers and the mid/tweeter, or better yet, as you mentioned, even triamp them. The tweeter, the mid and the bass all get their own power supply.

Yes, I get all that. If you can actually biamp, that is the way to go. I'm actually quad-amped. I use six power amps (some mono, some stereo). Simply feeding twin speaker cables to the loudspeaker has dubious benefit. Remember, the loudspeaker is really electrically part of the final stage on your power amp. The Rotel may have dual outputs, but they all connect back to the same place. But if your speakers have provision for dual / split input and you don't mind spending for separate signal path for the bass and treble, it can't hurt.

4, my Bowers & Wilkins are CM-10 S2's. They're the flagship tower speaker for B&W in their CM model line up. They stand about 44" tall to the tip of the decoupled tweeter on top, and they have what's called a Plinth on the bottom, which you either use or not use. I use it because I want the extra weight to the speaker to eliminate as much vibration as possible. They were $4,000 for the pair, so they're not exactly your cheap pair of Cerwin Vega party speakers. I have the newer matching edition Bowers & Wilkins HTM71 center channel with the newer carbon tweeter and Continuum mid. That was $1,500. A very natural sounding speaker, no coloration noticeable, which is what I prefer. When placing speakers, if they're bookshelf style smaller speakers, yes, the need to be on stand, because you want the tweeter to be at ear level. I have B&W DM-602 S3's for surrounds. Another pair of great sounding speakers in my opinion. I also have an SVS PB-2000 subwoofer that I have placed on a slab of inch thick granite to ground it. 1050 watts peak of Class AB, digitally controlled, push pull power, and it will shake plaster off the walls.

Your call. 44" just seems mighty low to the ground for me, especially for a home theater. If it were me, I'd try them a few feet out from the back wall, a few feet in from the side walls, and raised up on one or two cinder blocks and give that a try. Then experiment with the toe-in toe-out.

5, I'm adding the Rotel because I not only use the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 for home theater, but Yamaha did have the sense to add balanced XLR pre outs for "only" front LR. They probably knew that some would use those for 2 channel listening and add a decent amp, and that's what I've done.

Yes, that was a nice feature they added and over the years, Yamaha has generally made a good product.

The Rotel is far from a $35,000 McIntosh, or any of the other amplifiers that cost more than a house. But for what I'm doing, the Rotel with dual transformers and 350 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms of Class AB power, it's going to really wake up my B&W CM-10's which do love power, and the Amazon streaming HD and Ultra HD music is going to sound pretty dang good.

I'm sure the Rotels will perform better than Yamaha's built in power stage. With 350W, I think you'll find the amps actually play Class A at lower volume and the added headroom should help keep the sound cleaner at higher volumes. Rotel has always been known for offering a taste of the high end without high end prices.

I've been at this for a long time. I've owned a lot of crap in my life and I just keep upgrading within my budget. The system in front of me right now, once the Rotel is sitting there, should be here next week, is north of $13,000 worth of stuff when you throw in the cost of cables and 65" LG 4K TV and what not, so even though that really is still considered "mid-fi", I know NO ONE that's got a better system. Most of the people I know look at what I have and think I'm nuts for spending the money I have on it.

Yep, I can totally relate. If anyone thinks you're crazy, then they don't need to listen to the stuff, do they? If it make you feel any better, here's a couple pictures of my stereo in circa 1978:

That's a Transcriber's Skeletal turntable on the wall with a custom modded HK ST70 power amp underneath and a totally ratted out custom rebuilt AR SP3A preamp in front. Buried in the middle is a Quintessence equalizer used to isolate the bass channel for an SAE Mark IIICM fully complimentary DC-coupled 200wpc power amp for the bass (separate sub). The sub and satellite speakers were all custom hand built.

Looking down at the preamp,

my own proprietary line gain stage and phono preamp with a strain-gauge P/S behind it to power the phono cartridge.

And I still have all that gear. If your friends think you crazy, I actually have about 3 tuners, maybe 3-4 preamps, maybe 20 power amps and a few receivers and integrated amps in the room right next door to me. I could probably assemble 5-7 complete nice stereos from stuff I have laying around the house! So no, you're not crazy.

The money does go fast for brand new store bought gear, which is why I mostly buy used and/or build my own. I hope that after you listen to the Rotels for a while and get settled on everything, you take some pictures and write of your impressions. I'd like to read that.

Good to have a talk with another person that knows a little audio. Not too many people that care or know jack squat.

I'm pretty much an audio purist. A friend and I advanced the SOTA. I used to design electronics. I pretty much only listen to LPs and some CDs. So, yeah, I'd he interested to read your review once you get these Rotels dialed in. Don't forget, it may take hundreds of hours burn in before they sound their best. Once you get the Rotel, you should leave it powered on 24/7 for at least a few weeks (with the upstream Yamaha on too). Break it is gradually w/o blasting it for a few days. Don't mean at all to sound like I'm ripping on any of your gear, just trying to be totally accurate and honest with you (the industry is full of hype and marketing misinformation). Utimately, how your system sounds will depend on the synergy between the Rotel and your B&Ws.

 

[007]

OK... you sound like an audiophile, so let's go through this here...

You could probably say that since I've designed and built my own audio gear and have helped design the pro sound system for places like this:

View attachment 335414

1, yes, the Rotel is currently made in China, WHAT ISN'T

Actually, none of the 20 main pieces in my music system are China sourced. But no matter.

The Yamaha is also a home theater receiver, but it's the RX-A3080 which is their flagship home theater receiver, and it does have balanced XLR pre outs for front L-R, so for two channel listening, that is an asset, not a liability.

Flagship or not, 007, I'm just telling you that no home theater receiver alive is a great musical amplifier. They are packed full of cramped microprocessor and op-amp controlled amp and DSP processors for stupid sound effects and so forth. It will be convenient for you but don't expect the same sound quality as a purest dedicated audio preamp with simple signal path. The main advantage of the balanced (XLR) circuitry to quieter background / lower hum, by using isolated floating ground topography. Nice if you got it, but doesn't really improve the musicality of the system.

2, I bought one Rotel RB-1590 "stereo," two channel amplifier. I'll use it for two channel listening. I'll feed the signal to it with a set of Audioquest Mackenzie XLR male to female cables, and I will biamp my Bowers & Wilkins CM-10's. Now, I've had this conversation many times with others on audiophile websites about what biamping and what biwiring is, and technically I know that I'm not biamping my speakers. I'd have to have a separate amp to power each set of terminals on the speakers, not just using the separate sets of terminals coming of a single amp. But the Rotel does have two toroidial transformers, one for each channel.

1. I kinda figured you weren't using two bridged Rotels as you'll never feed 700W (rms?) into those speakers.
2. Cables are an expensive consumer marketing gimmick. Believe me, really good sounding gear will blow you away even if wired with CAT 5 or lampcord.
3. Again, fine if the Rotel uses two physically complete P/S for each channel, but again, not a NECESSITY, if all is designed right. Maybe a bigger factor for a bipolar transistor amp.

3, some will debate whether or not there is an advantage to biamping/biwiring until the cows come home, but in my opinion, I hear a difference, since the woofers take up 70% of the power fed to a speaker, when you eliminate the connecting strap between the binding posts on a speaker, then each part of the cross over network is then getting it's own power supply. The tweeter isn't getting it's signal bled down when the music hits some big bass notes. That is why higher end speakers do give you the choice to separate the power to the bass speakers and the mid/tweeter, or better yet, as you mentioned, even triamp them. The tweeter, the mid and the bass all get their own power supply.

Yes, I get all that. If you can actually biamp, that is the way to go. I'm actually quad-amped. I use six power amps (some mono, some stereo). Simply feeding twin speaker cables to the loudspeaker has dubious benefit. Remember, the loudspeaker is really electrically part of the final stage on your power amp. The Rotel may have dual outputs, but they all connect back to the same place. But if your speakers have provision for dual / split input and you don't mind spending for separate signal path for the bass and treble, it can't hurt.

4, my Bowers & Wilkins are CM-10 S2's. They're the flagship tower speaker for B&W in their CM model line up. They stand about 44" tall to the tip of the decoupled tweeter on top, and they have what's called a Plinth on the bottom, which you either use or not use. I use it because I want the extra weight to the speaker to eliminate as much vibration as possible. They were $4,000 for the pair, so they're not exactly your cheap pair of Cerwin Vega party speakers. I have the newer matching edition Bowers & Wilkins HTM71 center channel with the newer carbon tweeter and Continuum mid. That was $1,500. A very natural sounding speaker, no coloration noticeable, which is what I prefer. When placing speakers, if they're bookshelf style smaller speakers, yes, the need to be on stand, because you want the tweeter to be at ear level. I have B&W DM-602 S3's for surrounds. Another pair of great sounding speakers in my opinion. I also have an SVS PB-2000 subwoofer that I have placed on a slab of inch thick granite to ground it. 1050 watts peak of Class AB, digitally controlled, push pull power, and it will shake plaster off the walls.

Your call. 44" just seems mighty low to the ground for me, especially for a home theater. If it were me, I'd try them a few feet out from the back wall, a few feet in from the side walls, and raised up on one or two cinder blocks and give that a try. Then experiment with the toe-in toe-out.

5, I'm adding the Rotel because I not only use the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 for home theater, but Yamaha did have the sense to add balanced XLR pre outs for "only" front LR. They probably knew that some would use those for 2 channel listening and add a decent amp, and that's what I've done.

Yes, that was a nice feature they added and over the years, Yamaha has generally made a good product.

The Rotel is far from a $35,000 McIntosh, or any of the other amplifiers that cost more than a house. But for what I'm doing, the Rotel with dual transformers and 350 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms of Class AB power, it's going to really wake up my B&W CM-10's which do love power, and the Amazon streaming HD and Ultra HD music is going to sound pretty dang good.

I'm sure the Rotels will perform better than Yamaha's built in power stage. With 350W, I think you'll find the amps actually play Class A at lower volume and the added headroom should help keep the sound cleaner at higher volumes. Rotel has always been known for offering a taste of the high end without high end prices.

I've been at this for a long time. I've owned a lot of crap in my life and I just keep upgrading within my budget. The system in front of me right now, once the Rotel is sitting there, should be here next week, is north of $13,000 worth of stuff when you throw in the cost of cables and 65" LG 4K TV and what not, so even though that really is still considered "mid-fi", I know NO ONE that's got a better system. Most of the people I know look at what I have and think I'm nuts for spending the money I have on it.

Yep, I can totally relate. If anyone thinks you're crazy, then they don't need to listen to the stuff, do they? If it make you feel any better, here's a couple pictures of my stereo in circa 1978:

View attachment 335418 That's a Transcriber's Skeletal turntable on the wall with a custom modded HK ST70 power amp underneath and a totally ratted out custom rebuilt AR SP3A preamp in front. Buried in the middle is a Quintessence equalizer used to isolate the bass channel for an SAE Mark IIICM fully complimentary DC-coupled 200wpc power amp for the bass (separate sub). The sub and satellite speakers were all custom hand built.

Looking down at the preamp, View attachment 335419 my own proprietary line gain stage and phono preamp with a strain-gauge P/S behind it to power the phono cartridge.

And I still have all that gear. If your friends think you crazy, I actually have about 3 tuners, maybe 3-4 preamps, maybe 20 power amps and a few receivers and integrated amps in the room right next door to me. I could probably assemble 5-7 complete nice stereos from stuff I have laying around the house! So no, you're not crazy.

The money does go fast for brand new store bought gear, which is why I mostly buy used and/or build my own. I hope that after you listen to the Rotels for a while and get settled on everything, you take some pictures and write of your impressions. I'd like to read that.

Good to have a talk with another person that knows a little audio. Not too many people that care or know jack squat.

I'm pretty much an audio purist. A friend and I advanced the SOTA. I used to design electronics. I pretty much only listen to LPs and some CDs. So, yeah, I'd he interested to read your review once you get these Rotels dialed in. Don't forget, it may take hundreds of hours burn in before they sound their best. Once you get the Rotel, you should leave it powered on 24/7 for at least a few weeks (with the upstream Yamaha on too). Break it is gradually w/o blasting it for a few days. Don't mean at all to sound like I'm ripping on any of your gear, just trying to be totally accurate and honest with you (the industry is full of hype and marketing misinformation). Utimately, how your system sounds will depend on the synergy between the Rotel and your B&Ws.

Holy crap man, you ARE deep in it... cool! Hat's off to designing your own stuff. That's very cool. I have pictures of many of my old stereos too. Just goes to show, even the early crappy stuff, I still loved it and thought enough about it to take pictures of it.

Couple things, yes, I know a preamp or prepro would outperform the Yamaha when it comes to 2 channel listening. I've known for quiet awhile that home theater receivers are not designed for critical stereo listening. But, I'm hoping that the LR XLR pre outs ran through a decent amp sound better than running the front LR off the receiver.

And I noticed you kept saying Rotels, as in plural. Actually I just bought one. The RB-1590 is a two channel, stereo amp. I do know about burn in too. Cool thing about this amp is, it was a demo unit in store in PA that also installs home theaters, so it has been burned in. They are selling it as new though with the full 5 year warranty, and it should be here TODAY.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about cables. There is a lot of evidence out there that higher end cables do make a difference. I've experienced it myself, even quiet dramatically, especially video signals, and when you have a pile of cables laying behind your component rack, shielding becomes very important so that they're not contaminating each other, but then, I'm certain you know that. I also have a degree in Electrical Engineering, but I graduated quite awhile ago now, back in 1991.

I also ordered a Panamax M-5400PM line conditioner. I'd rather not have dirty A/C going into the amp.

One last thing, far as my B&W go, when I'm seated on my couch, the tweeters are actually a tiny bit above my ears, but the mids are exactly in line, so to me, that's the ultimate height for the speakers. I do also have some toe in. The other thing is, my living room isn't that big. My whole house isn't that big. I don't have a lot of room to work with, unfortunately. I just like my music a little on the loud side, "reference level."

My shop is over twice the size of my house, and the upstairs is all open, an empty canvas. Maybe someday I'll turn part of that into a listening room.

Once I get the amp set up on the rack and hopefully get it fired up, I'll take a pic and give my first impression. It should be today, in the next few hours.

 

[toobfreak]

I'm hoping that the LR XLR pre outs ran through a decent amp sound better than running the front LR off the receiver.

It damn well better.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about cables. There is a lot of evidence out there that higher end cables do make a difference. I've experienced it myself

Well, I usually design and make my own cables to fit the need and tend to use more pro-sound gear and custom made equipment. I do have a few fancy cables I've bought, some good quality HDMI and a couple of PBJ audio cables that I use (~$60 in their day). Rented some fancier ones and wasn't convinced of their contribution. But then, I used to know the Room Tunes guy and played with his stuff and wasn't sold on that either. Ended up doing my own acoustic treatment. In the end, you have to follow where your ear takes you, but be careful to do blind tests where you don't know which is which and avoid plugging some fancy gizmo in then convincing yourself it is doing something.

TO BE FAIR, while I eschew a lot of the gadgetry of the high end, I do find SOME of them effective. I've made my own sorbothane isolation pads, among other things.

One last thing, far as my B&W go, when I'm seated on my couch, the tweeters are actually a tiny bit above my ears, but the mids are exactly in line, so to me, that's the ultimate height for the speakers. I do also have some toe in. The other thing is, my living room isn't that big. My whole house isn't that big. I don't have a lot of room to work with, unfortunately. I just like my music a little on the loud side, "reference level."

I guess it depends on the soundstage presentation you are after or like + the dispersal characteristics of your speakers. I'm used to a very big soundstage and my tweeters are about two feet above me. If you think about it, when you go to see a live rock concert, all the speakers are up on stage above you. Here, you'll get a kick out of this. Here are a couple pictures I took helping my buddy set up his stereo back in about 2007. The first picture was just a "test fit" after we built woofer cabinets into his floor. The empty hole takes an 18" bass driver. The bass boxes are part of the house now and their bottoms actually open into a 4' crawlspace under the elevated floor, making the entire area under there part of the bass cabinets. Then we just sat his midrange horn box and tweeter horn on top to get some idea the final look. The tweeters have a 1000 watt magnet structure with heatsinks on them:

And here is a picture of the front of the room after we got the speakers finished, installed and working. The ceiling is about 9' high. The room is still all tore up and a mess but you can gauge the size of things from the outlet on the wall. The floor tiles are 12" X 12".

That stereo would melt your face off. Typical volume about 130dB+ and better than live. No fancy, exotic cables were used. See that little wire going to the tweeter? That is it. Believe me, this stereo has sound up in the range that you'd have to spend six figures at an audio salon in order to get. You CANNOT blow it up.

Once I get the amp set up on the rack and hopefully get it fired up, I'll take a pic and give my first impression. It should be today, in the next few hours.

Swell. I'll look forward to seeing and hearing your first impressions very much. While at it, since we are really talking home theater here, I dug up some file photos of some of my past home theaters for you to look at, or at least the equipment racks. I guess I got into home theater in the 1980s. Like my buddy, I'm an all go and no show kinda guy. I don't hide anything behind walls. I don't like these systems where all the gear is hidden and all you see is a built in screen in the wall with built in speakers. I like my gear and want ACCESS to it.

Here's a picture I took of me with my home theater circa early 1990s:

I think this was maybe in the late 90s:

And this was probably 2007-2008:

And finally, this is a picture of the current, revised theater rack as I was redoing everything back around about 2014:

Yes, my equipment rack has a fluorescent light fixture mounted behind it on the wall to light up the area so I can see when working back there. I'm a practical guy. No WAF. The point being here, 007, is that this crap is always a work in progress.

 

[Dick Foster]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.
I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there. If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

 

[okfine]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.
I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there. If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

I have had more than one pair of Heil's. Speaker placement is the key with any speaker. If you have a shitty recording it will always be crap. Remember the 1st watt is all that counts. The rest is amplified noise.

 

[Dick Foster]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.
I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there. If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

I have had more than one pair of Heil's. Speaker placement is the key with any speaker. If you have a shitty recording it will always be crap. Remember the 1st watt is all that counts. The rest is amplified noise.

Yes speaker placement usually helps too in an enclosed environment anyway. What do you mean had?
The point is that today decent source gear isn't anywhere near the problem it once was. And achieving great signal to noise ratios and true high fidelity is drop dead easy with the electronics avaliable today but the last hurdle toward true fidelity remains the hardest to overcome.
BTW as a retired electronics engineer I do favor solid state amplification over vaccum tubes. Especially power FET finals which introduce much lower levels of distortion than power amps using tubes and the necessary transformers do. While I cut my teeth on tubes, I was more than happy to leave them behind. Granted some pretty crappy solid state amps using bipolar devices did unfortunately make it to the market place. But that was mainly because the bean counters of the world foisted that shit upon the public.

 

[okfine]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.
I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there. If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

I have had more than one pair of Heil's. Speaker placement is the key with any speaker. If you have a shitty recording it will always be crap. Remember the 1st watt is all that counts. The rest is amplified noise.

Yes speaker placement usually helps too in an enclosed environment anyway. What do you mean had?
The point is that today decent source gear isn't anywhere near the problem it once was. And achieving great signal to noise ratios and true high fidelity is drop dead easy with the electronics avaliable today but the last hurdle toward true fidelity remains the hardest to overcome.
BTW as a retired electronics engineer I do favor solid state amplification over vaccum tubes. Especially power FET finals which introduce much lower levels of distortion than power amps using tubes and the necessary transformers do. While I cut my teeth on tubes, I was more than happy to leave them behind. Granted some pretty crappy solid state amps using bipolar devices did unfortunately make it to the market place. But that was mainly because the bean counters of the world foisted that shit upon the public.

Had as in no longer have. Except for some AMT1B cabinets which were cannibalized for the drivers. I have a Yakov Aronov tube amp with KT90's but it is way too hot for use in my apt. Using an Adcom 5802 with an NAD preamp and Marantz SACD player through KEF Ref model 4's at the moment.

 

[toobfreak]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.

Actually, Dick, I'm going to have to disagree with that as this is a common misconception. Not sure what speakers you consider crap, but the idea that the speaks make or break the system is an untenable one from a physics POV.

The idea that the speakers "make the sound" stems from the idea that they literally make THEIR sound rather than do the job of any truly GOOD speaker and simply let the good sound through. A GOOD system should sound great with great recordings and bad with bad recordings. If a speaker change "made all the difference" while upstream components did not, likely what you are hearing now are speakers with a signature sound you like imposed on everything you play and your upstream components were simply all the wrong kind or ineffectual.

I guarantee you that you can take rather ordinary, pedestrian speakers and get fabulous, better sound out of them with a great front end than you can with the best speakers in the world connected to dregs. Can you imagine connecting Martin Logans to a 1970 Sherwood receiver? The better the speaker, the more transparent to and dependent they are the quality of their input.

Take two extremes, a great front end connected to blasé speakers vs. world reference speakers connected to Sears equipment:

In the first example, you have impeccable signal quality with half of it lost in the speakers. In the second example, world class speakers who give up almost nothing but with a pretty poor input.

See my point? in the case you are describing where the sound is "good" no matter what you plug them into, what you are really hearing is a speaker which imposes its own sound over the signal which just happens to fit what you listen to or like rather than "accuracy."

I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there.

Were they Quads? KLH9s? Soundlabs? Klipshorns?

If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

Yep. Very nice speakers. Actually, a nice variant of the "ribbon" principle made into a highly efficient horn-like device. Reminds me of the old Plasmatronics. Ultimate tweeter technology with massless plasma driver but with the usual problem of not marrying well to such dissimilar drivers as needed for the lower frequencies. The Heils have a very fast, light, airy, nimble mid to high frequency that is alive, fresh, brash and seductive. Their only problem is that they will sound that way even when the music isn't. I can see why you love them.

 

[toobfreak]

The point is that today decent source gear isn't anywhere near the problem it once was.

Have you ever listened to a Leak power amp? Quad? Many in the 1950s had sound quality that most folks today would klll for.

And achieving great signal to noise ratios and true high fidelity is drop dead easy with the electronics avaliable today

SNR has nothing to qo with sound realism. Go to any live event and listen to the amount of background noise.

BTW as a retired electronics engineer I do favor solid state amplification over vaccum tubes. Especially power FET finals which introduce much lower levels of distortion than power amps using tubes and the necessary transformers do. While I cut my teeth on tubes, I was more than happy to leave them behind.

I didn't know engineering school taught anything about music. I know a great many experts in music and sound quality who don't know a volt from an amp. You like MosFETs because like tubes, they are a voltage device, but your complaints about tubes sounds like you simply never heard a good tube circuit, and/or never used them properly. You never drive a tube amp below about 100 cycles. The bottom octaves should be reserved for a solid state amp which are far better at switching the low frequencies at high current into super low impedances. BTW, have you ever listened to an OTL amp?

Granted some pretty crappy solid state amps using bipolar devices did unfortunately make it to the market place. But that was mainly because the bean counters of the world foisted that shit upon the public.

Bipolar was foisted mainly because its technology came to fruition first. Actually, for a bass amp, they work just fine. One last point: next time you go to a live concert, look at the speakers they are using. Are they HEIL transformers or rather conventional dynamic speakers? Remember, the ultimate goal is to be able to get back to the live event! Never have been able to get a convincing good answer from anyone in the hi-fi industry why it takes such exotic, delicate, esoteric technology to reproduce the sound of a live event made with hard as nails dynamic drivers and mostly tube gear in the first place!

 

[007]

I'm hoping that the LR XLR pre outs ran through a decent amp sound better than running the front LR off the receiver.

It damn well better.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about cables. There is a lot of evidence out there that higher end cables do make a difference. I've experienced it myself

Well, I usually design and make my own cables to fit the need and tend to use more pro-sound gear and custom made equipment. I do have a few fancy cables I've bought, some good quality HDMI and a couple of PBJ audio cables that I use (~$60 in their day). Rented some fancier ones and wasn't convinced of their contribution. But then, I used to know the Room Tunes guy and played with his stuff and wasn't sold on that either. Ended up doing my own acoustic treatment. In the end, you have to follow where your ear takes you, but be careful to do blind tests where you don't know which is which and avoid plugging some fancy gizmo in then convincing yourself it is doing something.

TO BE FAIR, while I eschew a lot of the gadgetry of the high end, I do find SOME of them effective. I've made my own sorbothane isolation pads, among other things.

One last thing, far as my B&W go, when I'm seated on my couch, the tweeters are actually a tiny bit above my ears, but the mids are exactly in line, so to me, that's the ultimate height for the speakers. I do also have some toe in. The other thing is, my living room isn't that big. My whole house isn't that big. I don't have a lot of room to work with, unfortunately. I just like my music a little on the loud side, "reference level."

I guess it depends on the soundstage presentation you are after or like + the dispersal characteristics of your speakers. I'm used to a very big soundstage and my tweeters are about two feet above me. If you think about it, when you go to see a live rock concert, all the speakers are up on stage above you. Here, you'll get a kick out of this. Here are a couple pictures I took helping my buddy set up his stereo back in about 2007. The first picture was just a "test fit" after we built woofer cabinets into his floor. The empty hole takes an 18" bass driver. The bass boxes are part of the house now and their bottoms actually open into a 4' crawlspace under the elevated floor, making the entire area under there part of the bass cabinets. Then we just sat his midrange horn box and tweeter horn on top to get some idea the final look. The tweeters have a 1000 watt magnet structure with heatsinks on them:


View attachment 336035

And here is a picture of the front of the room after we got the speakers finished, installed and working. The ceiling is about 9' high. The room is still all tore up and a mess but you can gauge the size of things from the outlet on the wall. The floor tiles are 12" X 12".

View attachment 336038

That stereo would melt your face off. Typical volume about 130dB+ and better than live. No fancy, exotic cables were used. See that little wire going to the tweeter? That is it. Believe me, this stereo has sound up in the range that you'd have to spend six figures at an audio salon in order to get. You CANNOT blow it up.

Once I get the amp set up on the rack and hopefully get it fired up, I'll take a pic and give my first impression. It should be today, in the next few hours.

Swell. I'll look forward to seeing and hearing your first impressions very much. While at it, since we are really talking home theater here, I dug up some file photos of some of my past home theaters for you to look at, or at least the equipment racks. I guess I got into home theater in the 1980s. Like my buddy, I'm an all go and no show kinda guy. I don't hide anything behind walls. I don't like these systems where all the gear is hidden and all you see is a built in screen in the wall with built in speakers. I like my gear and want ACCESS to it.

Here's a picture I took of me with my home theater circa early 1990s:

View attachment 336040

I think this was maybe in the late 90s:

View attachment 336041


And this was probably 2007-2008:


View attachment 336042


And finally, this is a picture of the current, revised theater rack as I was redoing everything back around about 2014:


View attachment 336043

Yes, my equipment rack has a fluorescent light fixture mounted behind it on the wall to light up the area so I can see when working back there. I'm a practical guy. No WAF. The point being here, 007, is that this crap is always a work in progress.

Oh I agree 100% that an audiophiles system is always a "work in progress." Here's a pic of one of my early on systems, circa: 1986, was in the Air Force, didn't have a lot of money to play with. Had a Technics SA-828 receiver that I traded a pistol for. It had a "spacial enhancer" that I thought was just cool. I used it a lot, and a pair of AR speakers that I bought at a big audio/visual fair...

And my home theater now. Kinda have to stuff this into my small living room, have a small house, but the new Rotel RB-1590 is upper left, will fit in a lower shelf but really tight, and I want it to be able to breath, even though I've noticed that even at loud levels, it's barely warm to the touch. With 350 watts RMS per channel, it's loafing. Below that is the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 home theater receiver with more audio channels than I'll ever use, such as Dolby Atmos, next to that is the new Panamax M5400-PM. I had my electrician friend come over and we ran a new dedicated 20 amp circuit for the system because the old line wasn't properly grounded and was causing an annoying ground hum on the amp, but the Panamax cleaned that up entirely. But it also cleaned the sound, and I mean noticeably, big time. So I also bought a new AQ NRG-4 power cable for the Rotel, since the stock cord has a funky shaped plug on the wall end that caused fitment problems on the Panamax. The speakers are Bowers & Wilkins CM-10 S1 front LR, and the new model Bowers & Wilkins HTM71 center channel. One of these days I'll replace the CM-10's with the new matching B&W 702's, but at $4,500 a pair, it might be a little while. I'm pretty sure I could get $3,000 for the CM-10's though. All in all, I'm impressed. The amp, the AQ Mackenzie XLR cables and the Panamax are an incredible sounding system, in my opinion. The Rotel is open and airy and super detailed. At 350 watts RMS x2, it's loafing at levels loud enough to be uncomfortable to listen to. The TV is a 65" LG 4K HDR 10, and covered up on the bottom shelf is a Staton T.92 turn table. Not pictured is an SVS PB-2000 subwoofer, and Bowers & Wilkins DM-602 S3 as surround sound.

 

[007]

If the source is crap it won't matter.

Actually if the speakers are crap it really won't matter what else you have. The very last link in the chain is actually the most critical and makes the most difference to how any system sounds.
I have some vintage speakers that employ an unusually different driver design and they truly make more difference than anything else in a system actually can. They deliver a level of presence that has to be heard to be appreciated. You get the impression that you're hearing a live performance. Unfortunately they're about as rare as hen's teeth these days but I managed to find a pair. I had to do a little work on them but that's OK because I'd wanted them for years after I first heard them but they were too expensive and out of my reach. I found some at a flea market and instantly bloomed on to them. I took them home and fixed them up but the hates them because they're big and ugly she says. They're consigned to my man cave but that's OK because I can crank them up down there. If you ever see any snatch them up, you'll be glad you did. ESS Heil AMT1a. I have the AMT1a speakers but there were other models but they're all rare. They're uber expensive if you can even find new ones with Heil drivers. They're a little like trying to track down a ghost these days.

I have had more than one pair of Heil's. Speaker placement is the key with any speaker. If you have a shitty recording it will always be crap. Remember the 1st watt is all that counts. The rest is amplified noise.

Yes speaker placement usually helps too in an enclosed environment anyway. What do you mean had?
The point is that today decent source gear isn't anywhere near the problem it once was. And achieving great signal to noise ratios and true high fidelity is drop dead easy with the electronics avaliable today but the last hurdle toward true fidelity remains the hardest to overcome.
BTW as a retired electronics engineer I do favor solid state amplification over vaccum tubes. Especially power FET finals which introduce much lower levels of distortion than power amps using tubes and the necessary transformers do. While I cut my teeth on tubes, I was more than happy to leave them behind. Granted some pretty crappy solid state amps using bipolar devices did unfortunately make it to the market place. But that was mainly because the bean counters of the world foisted that shit upon the public.

Had as in no longer have. Except for some AMT1B cabinets which were cannibalized for the drivers. I have a Yakov Aronov tube amp with KT90's but it is way too hot for use in my apt. Using an Adcom 5802 with an NAD preamp and Marantz SACD player through KEF Ref model 4's at the moment.

I've had a few different oppo disc players. I had the BD-103, then bought it's big brother the BD-105D, and then when I bought the 4K TV, bought the UHD-103. I paid $450 for it straight from oppo and recently sold it for a grand. I didn't know oppo quit making disc players and now they're highly sought after. But I've been reading about disc players and now, apparently, the Panasonic DP-UB9000 is the new high end reference disc player. However, it won't play SACD or DVD audio discs. Kinda stupid. But possibly I'm missing others. It's hard to find them online. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place...

Panasonic DP-UB9000 Ultra HD Blu-ray player review: Here’s one manufacturer that’s not bailing on Blu-ray

Streaming offers instant gratification, but only a high-end Blu-ray player like this can reveal just incredible your 4K TV can look.

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