For Every Confederate Soldier Statue They Remove, Put Up 10

[DigitalDrifter]

And of course Texas vs White came after the Civil War. Prior to that, there was nothing in the Constitution that firmly forbid secession.

It ruled on the same Constitutional issue

Afterwards.

Same Constitution......it didn't change
The South did not ask for a Constitutional approval before they seceded

They didn't feel they needed to.

Then how could they legally secede?

Can you divorce by just walking away from a marriage and saying you were done?
There were legal, financial, personal and logistic entanglements of belonging to the United States and then claiming you do not

It's difficult to say, and it depends on who you talk to, or what you read.
Some will tell you that some of the states held a popular vote to secede. In some cases conventions decided, in some cases certain counties wanted out, others didn't.
Some people have written that only wealthy slave owners voted to secede.
Karl Marx as I recall reported that there was never a clear case of any of the southern states holding an honest statewide popular vote.
In the end articles of independence were written, and a declaration thereafter came out.
That gave them as much right to secede as the 53 men who made the decision 85 years earlier to secede from Britain.

 

[Scamp]

Right off the bat Lincoln himself trashed the Constitution and called for an army of 75,000 troops to invade the South.

Cant do that. Only Congress can do that.

Then Lincoln called for the military blockade of Southern ports. That's an act of war. Just trashed the Constitution again.

 

[JonKoch]

'

Don't understand the difference with England and self rule versus SLAVERY huh cupcake?

So the CONservative cupcakes just chose to use violence to implement what they wanted huh?

How'd that "physically removing" thing work out

They declared their independence and since Lincoln and the Union refused to recognize their declaration, war became the only option left.

Gawd you wingnutters, but you support the sovereign citizens movement too?

Look, from my perspective, this has nothing to do with militias, slavery, etc.
I simply look at it as whether or not states could vote to declare their independence and leave the Union.

We all know why the South wanted to secede, it was the only way they were going to be able to continue their horrific practice of enslaving other human beings.
However, that is absolutely not the reason the Union forcibly kept them from becoming their own country.
There was nothing in the Constitution at the time that made it clear that terrotories could vote to join the Union, but not be able to vote to leave.

IMO it was morally wrong to kill others in order to force them to remain in the Union.

Weird you'd think the traitorous states could've figured out all they needed to do was get an amendment passed?

But your premise is BS, the traitors fired on the USA

They fired on the fort, because the Union refused to negotiate a transfer.

Ever hear of the phrase 'The Shot Heard Round the World' ?

Well, it's actually been used several times regarding historical events. One of those was the first shot of the Revolutionary War. Now regardless of whether those first shots came at Lexington, or Concord, it's usually accepted that our forefathers fired the first shots and officially became traitors to the Crown.

Much in the same way the South's declaration of Independence is viewed as traitorous to some.

No doubt there is a HUGE difference wanting a voice in Gov't (representation/taxes) and the traitors who simply wanted to continue to own people as slaves

 

[JonKoch]

There was nothing in the US Constitution that prevented secession. As a matter of fact, we were a country born of secession. From England.

BZZ

Texas v. White. Texas v. White, (1869), U.S. Supreme Court case in which it was held that the United States is “an indestructible union” from which no state can secede.

Texas v. White - Wikipedia


THEY NEEDED TO PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO DO IT, LEGALLY, THEY CHOSE VIOLENCE INSTEAD!!!

And of course Texas vs White came after the Civil War. Prior to that, there was nothing in the Constitution that firmly forbid secession.

FIRMLY? WEIRD WEREN'T THERE GUYS WHO UNDERSTOOD YOU NEEDED TO AMEND IT?

 

[JQPublic1]

Yes, remind people that you support treason. Put up a Trump sign, too, and there will be no doubt.

You libtards don't even know what treason means, let alone who it applies too, best look at Obama that is the bastard who committed treason like it or not.

I think the fact that civil war spies were executed when caught shows that both sides understood what being a traitor was. Violent Insurrection began with the first shot fired at ft. Sumter.

Wrong. Fort Sumter was South Carolina's property since they legally seceded from the Union.

The " legality" you speak of is contentious to say the least. I'm not sure there is a general consensus on that one way or the other. I do believe a Supreme Court ruling invalidated the idea of secession...but the ruling seems to have also left "wiggle room" for future secessionists upon approval from the other states.

But as you admit, secession was legal. It was Lincoln's invasion that was illegal, and unconstitutional.

Did you miss the part where approval from the states was necessary to validate the " legality" of secession? That would be a unanimous decision. No such approval was granted. Licoln, then, excercised the power vested in him to preserve the union, protect U.S. property, and put down insurrections.

 

[rightwinger]

Right off the bat Lincoln himself trashed the Constitution and called for an army of 75,000 troops to invade the South.

Cant do that. Only Congress can do that.

Then Lincoln called for the military blockade of Southern ports. That's an act of war. Just trashed the Constitution again.

Blockade kicked ass and starved the Southern economy. A masterful decision

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, you can draw parallels to the American Revolution and the Civil War

Morally, it is not even close

The colonialists revolted because they were denied a vote, denied representation, denied self determination

The South had all that. The South revolted because they saw an eventual end to their beloved slavery. They created a nation where 40 percent of its population was in bondage

The Confederacy was an abomination unworthy of honoring

 

[Scamp]

="JonKoch, No doubt there is a HUGE difference wanting a voice in Gov't (representation/taxes) and the traitors who simply wanted to continue to own people as slaves

When the Civil War started the Union States of New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri still had slavery. Later during the war, Lincoln illegally and Unconstitutionally made West Virginia a new state and they could keep their slaves too.

 

[Scamp]

The North had slavery ever since the original colonies. The fact that they didn't have as many slaves as the South had little to do with morality and a lot to do with climate.

The South was making Billions of dollars from the crops of cotton and tobacco. Cant grow those crops in the North because of climate. You better believe that if the North could make that kind of money growing these crops they would have had a lot more slaves than they did. Its all about money.

 

[Scamp]

It was the USA that made slavery legal. The US Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850. The US Supreme Court ruled to protect slavery Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857).

The South turned slavery into a Billion dollar enterprise. The Union could not make this kind of money.

 

[rightwinger]

="JonKoch, No doubt there is a HUGE difference wanting a voice in Gov't (representation/taxes) and the traitors who simply wanted to continue to own people as slaves

When the Civil War started the Union States of New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri still had slavery. Later during the war, Lincoln illegally and Unconstitutionally made West Virginia a new state and they could keep their slaves too.

The United States was formed with a cancer called slavery. It was thought better to form a nation containing cancer than not to form one at all

Yes, some border states had a small number of slaves, that would be expected. And yes, Lincoln was willing to allow them to continue to have slaves in order to preserve the union
But your whimpering of "they had them too" falls short. Slavery was an institution in the South.40 percent of the population. Over 60 percent in South Carolina and Mississippi. It was something they were proud of and willing to die for

 

[rightwinger]

It was the USA that made slavery legal. The US Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850. The US Supreme Court ruled to protect slavery Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857).

The South turned slavery into a Billion dollar enterprise. The Union could not make this kind of money.

Billion dollars and they were unwilling to share with their workforce
Despicable

 

[Scamp]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

 

[rightwinger]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

 

[Scamp]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

 

[rightwinger]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

 

[Scamp]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

Just because slave ships just became illegal didn't stop them. the Navy hardly supported the new law. The money was too much to stop them. It was fast sailing ships from up North

Here is two of the last...

Wanderer (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1858

Clotilde (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1860

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Yes, you can draw parallels to the American Revolution and the Civil War

Morally, it is not even close

The colonialists revolted because they were denied a vote, denied representation, denied self determination

The South had all that. The South revolted because they saw an eventual end to their beloved slavery. They created a nation where 40 percent of its population was in bondage

The Confederacy was an abomination unworthy of honoring

It may not be worth "honoring" but there's certainly no need to tear every remebrcnce of it down either. And in fact, there's no need to likewise honor the North, who only viewed through rose colored glasses can you believe it was all about ending slavery. It absolutely was not. Early on, Lincoln would have gladly allowed slavery to continue if the south remained in the Union.

IMO, it would have been a much more noble cause to go to war expressly for the reason of ending slavery.
Killing people because they wanted their own country, despite their reasons, was truly evil IMO and for me I will never view Lincoln as a heroic figure in American history. In fact for me, I put him up their with other tyrants. Yes I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I really don't care.

 

[rightwinger]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

After the law it was hardly enforced. So slaves hips continued comiung in

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

Just because slave ships just became illegal didn't stop them. the Navy hardly supported the new law. The money was too much to stop them. It was fast sailing ships from up North

Here is two of the last...

Wanderer (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1858

Clotilde (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1860

Smuggling is still smuggling
You could smuggle them in today

You seem to operate in the fringes. Justifying four million slaves because of the few who may have lived outside of the slave states.

 

[Scamp]

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

After the law it was hardly enforced. So slaves hips continued comiung in

Not a single slave ever came from Africa to America on a Confederate ship. It was US ships and European countries ships that brought them here.

Money was more important than the moral question of slavery to them.

That is what makes it worse
Generational slavery. You were not only doomed to a life of bondage, so were your children and grandchildren

We banned the importation of slaves in 1803. By 1860 our slave population had grown from one million to four million

The importation of slaves to the USA continued until the late 1850s maybe even 1860.

No, it didn't

Just because slave ships just became illegal didn't stop them. the Navy hardly supported the new law. The money was too much to stop them. It was fast sailing ships from up North

Here is two of the last...

Wanderer (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1858

Clotilde (slave ship) - Wikipedia 1860

Smuggling is still smuggling
You could smuggle them in today

You seem to operate in the fringes. Justifying four million slaves because of the few who may have lived outside of the slave states.

I'm not justifying slavery. That was the USA who did that.