Florist Sued for Refusing Service to Gay Couple Pens Defiant Letter Rejecting Gov’t Settlement Offer

[koshergrl]

"...In a blow to Native Americans — whose religious traditions predate the U.S. Constitution — the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 on April 17, that there is no constitutional right to use peyote as part of religious rituals. Peyote, which contains the hallucinogenic drug mescaline, is a central part of Indian religious ritual. The federal government and 23 states permit peyote to be used for that purpose.
"....Justice Antonin Scalia, in writing for the majority, said that the First Amendment freedom of religion does not allow individuals t o break the law: "We have never held that an individual's beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the state is free to regulate." He said it would be "courting anarchy" to create exceptions every time a religious group claims that a law infringes on its practices.
"The dissenting justices, William J. Brennan Jr., Thurgood Marshall, and Harry A. Blackmun, called the decision "sweeping" and "a wholesale overturning of settled law concerning the religion clauses in our Constitution." The three dissenters were joined by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in one aspect of their opinion. The four agreed that the majority's approach "dramatically departs from well-settled First Amendment jurisprudence...and is incompatible with our nation's fundamental commitment to individual re ligious liberty."

^^^That's where the law went bad.

Court strikes a blow to religious freedom
We are not obliged to abide by bad laws put in place by arbitrary judicial legislation. It needs to be changed.

 

[Nosmo King]

Participate how? As guests? Participate in the wedding ceremony? We're they asked to check out the gift registry? We're they expected to give away the bride? We're they in the reception line?

Nope. They were asked to make floral arraignments. That's not participation. It is, in fact , a florist's stock in trade, no matter how much paranoid hyperbole you want to ladle on.

They were asked to create floral arrangements (and place them) for a ceremony they believe is sacrilege.
They can't be compelled to do so. There's no law in the world that could compel them to do so. If there is, it's a bad law.

A bad law that helps eliminate discrimination? Okay, I'll play in your ballpark.

A sect of Christianity that preaches you must NOT love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's a bad religion.

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

 

[PratchettFan]

Just one question: why would a gay couple want to do business with a florist who does not approve of gay marriage? Why would they want to contribute to the profit of a business that does not approve of their lifestyle?

Try to answer honestly.

Maybe that was the only florist they thought could do the job they wanted done. It really doesn't matter. Once the florist offered to do floral arrangements for marriage, they were obligated to do them.

Now, the way around this is for bakers or florists to put up a sign saying, "We are legally obligated to cater to gay marriage despite our religious objections. Please be aware that all proceeds from services for gay marriage will be donated to Gay Conversion Therapy."

And that would be TOTALLY legal.

Absolutely. They are free to do whatever they like with their money.

 

[koshergrl]

They were asked to create floral arrangements (and place them) for a ceremony they believe is sacrilege.
They can't be compelled to do so. There's no law in the world that could compel them to do so. If there is, it's a bad law.

A bad law that helps eliminate discrimination? Okay, I'll play in your ballpark.

A sect of Christianity that preaches you must NOT love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's a bad religion.

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith. She's being told that she must commit sacrilege, or go out of business.

The slave holders are the homos who think they can force people to do their bidding, in this case. And as usual, the progressives are the ones fighting for the right to keep slaves.

And get this through your thick, fascist skull..you don't dictate to me #1, what my religion is, or #2, how I observe it, or #3, what ceremonies I'm *allowed* to consider sacraments.

You have no authority over my faith. Accept it and get over it.

 

[dblack]

A bad law that helps eliminate discrimination? Okay, I'll play in your ballpark.

A sect of Christianity that preaches you must NOT love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's a bad religion.

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith.

No, she's not. Her faith isn't relevant. She's being persecuted for refusing service because of the customer's sexual orientation.

 

[koshergrl]

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith.

No, she's not. Her faith isn't relevant. She's being persecuted for refusing service because of the customer's sexual orientation.

She didn't refuse *service*. She refused to create works of art celebrating a sacrilegious event.

She had faithfully served these customers for 9 years. The whole "she refused service cuz they're gay" argument is lame, and doesn't work.

 

[dblack]

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith.

No, she's not. Her faith isn't relevant. She's being persecuted for refusing service because of the customer's sexual orientation.

She didn't refuse *service*. She refused to create works of art celebrating a sacrilegious event.

She had faithfully served these customers for 9 years. The whole "she refused service cuz they're gay" argument is lame, and doesn't work.

It's the truth. No one cares what her religious faith is. She'd be persecuted if her views weren't based on her religion just the same.

It's a gross misapplication of the first amendment to address this law on the grounds of religious freedom. The first amendment protects people from being persecuted because of their religion. It doesn't give them a free pass to opt out of laws their religion doesn't agree with.

The simple fact of the matter is that these kinds of laws violate the more fundamental freedoms of conscience and association. Government should have no power to tell us who our friends, associates, coworkers or customers can be. It's simply none of their business.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith.

No, she's not. Her faith isn't relevant. She's being persecuted for refusing service because of the customer's sexual orientation.

She didn't refuse *service*. She refused to create works of art celebrating a sacrilegious event.

She had faithfully served these customers for 9 years. The whole "she refused service cuz they're gay" argument is lame, and doesn't work.

Worked great in court, now what?

 

[Dot Com]

Nope, you, as with most liberals got it ass backwards, which is what I think you like.

She did not call the gay man a pixie or anything like that. She just voiced her sincerely held religious beliefs. Your agreeing with them has no bearing on the first amendment right. That is really what the first amendment is all about, stopping bigots like you from interfering in religious belief. I will admit though that the bigots on the left has done a good job of twisting the first amendment around to where it is unrecognizable.

You mean the First amendment written by Deists to keep Christians from dominating government or establishing state religion. THAT First Amendment? You can't have freedom of religion unless you have freedom FROM religion.

She has a "right" to believe in whatever Imaginary Friends In The Sky she wants to. But when he put out a sign that said, "Flowers for sale", then she has to sell the ******* flowers.

BTW I don't necessarily agree with her beliefs and in the way the country is heading I am thinking economics and public sentiment will change her attitude. But until then it is her RIGHT to her strongly held religious beliefs. Much like the courts have ruled Muslims can refuse cab fairs for those with dogs and alcohol.

First, i've never heard this claim. Do you have a link?

Second, drunks or dogs could present a potential danger to a cab driver and his property, so I could see that being a valid concern. If it were true which I don't think it is.

The founders weren't deists. The science is settled.

Excuse me??

Deism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

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[Nosmo King]

A bad law that helps eliminate discrimination? Okay, I'll play in your ballpark.

A sect of Christianity that preaches you must NOT love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's a bad religion.

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith. She's being told that she must commit sacrilege, or go out of business.

The slave holders are the homos who think they can force people to do their bidding, in this case. And as usual, the progressives are the ones fighting for the right to keep slaves.

And get this through your thick, fascist skull..you don't dictate to me #1, what my religion is, or #2, how I observe it, or #3, what ceremonies I'm *allowed* to consider sacraments.

You have no authority over my faith. Accept it and get over it.

Exactly how her religious freedom would be threatened if she had not known about the couple? What if she holds her peculiar beliefs and had no knowledge of a same sex affair? She would make the bouquets and buttonieres and...here it is...she suffered no harm! Her spirit and soul were intact! Her labor in making her wares was not effected by any distracting hatred. Her customers paid the bill, perhaps recommending the florist to other couples. Her business grows. The Gays are job creators, not soul destroyers.

Exactly how is she being barred from her sad, lonely beliefs?

 

[Dot Com]

"...In a blow to Native Americans — whose religious traditions predate the U.S. Constitution — the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 on April 17, that there is no constitutional right to use peyote as part of religious rituals. Peyote, which contains the hallucinogenic drug mescaline, is a central part of Indian religious ritual. The federal government and 23 states permit peyote to be used for that purpose.
"....Justice Antonin Scalia, in writing for the majority, said that the First Amendment freedom of religion does not allow individuals t o break the law: "We have never held that an individual's beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the state is free to regulate." He said it would be "courting anarchy" to create exceptions every time a religious group claims that a law infringes on its practices.
"The dissenting justices, William J. Brennan Jr., Thurgood Marshall, and Harry A. Blackmun, called the decision "sweeping" and "a wholesale overturning of settled law concerning the religion clauses in our Constitution." The three dissenters were joined by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in one aspect of their opinion. The four agreed that the majority's approach "dramatically departs from well-settled First Amendment jurisprudence...and is incompatible with our nation's fundamental commitment to individual re ligious liberty."

^^^That's where the law went bad.

Court strikes a blow to religious freedom
We are not obliged to abide by bad laws put in place by arbitrary judicial legislation. It needs to be changed.

Thanks for stealing my post from 5 pages ago lazygrl koshergrl

Gawd but socons are lazy

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[Dot Com]

A bad law that helps eliminate discrimination? Okay, I'll play in your ballpark.

A sect of Christianity that preaches you must NOT love your neighbor as you would love yourself. That's a bad religion.

It doesn't eliminate discrimination, it enables it.

What color is the sky I your world?

The color of reality, and truth.

Then tell us how public accommodation laws enable discrimination. The florist's right to practice her religion is not impacted by making floral arraignments. Must she personally know every peccadillo of her clients? If all she saw was an order slip, she would, no doubt ply her trade and not suffer any adverse harm to her religion.

This ***** is a bigot and hiding behind the Bible for cover.

If she is a Christian, would you think it askance that, in her 'church' the doctrine is "Do not love your neighbor as yourself"? Can religion protect slave holders? God knows they tried the same tactics. Can religion protect people who do not want to trade with Blacks?

Her's is a shallow religion. A religion without love, understanding and compassion. Hardly Christian by any measure.

By allowing the state to persecute people based on their faith.

This florist is being persecuted because of her faith. She's being told that she must commit sacrilege, or go out of business.

The slave holders are the homos who think they can force people to do their bidding, in this case. And as usual, the progressives are the ones fighting for the right to keep slaves.

And get this through your thick, fascist skull..you don't dictate to me #1, what my religion is, or #2, how I observe it, or #3, what ceremonies I'm *allowed* to consider sacraments.

You have no authority over my faith. Accept it and get over it.

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

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[dblack]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

No American is obligated to follow unjust laws.

There is no end to the examples down though history where 'I was just following the law', turned out very, VERY bad for people who were disinclined to use the mind God gave 'em, to use their means to reason to reject subjective law.

But in their defense, they did so because they reason subjectively, thus reject the objectivity that is required to be a decent human being.

 

[Nosmo King]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

You have the right to keep Homosexual's out of your church, but not your business.

 

[dblack]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

You have the right to keep Homosexual's out of your church, but not your business.

Do you have the right to not shop at a homosexual's store? To refuse to work for a homosexual employer?

 

[Nosmo King]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

You have the right to keep Homosexual's out of your church, but not your business.

Do you have the right to not shop at a homosexual's store? To refuse to work for a homosexual employer?

Of course!

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

""The attorney general's targeting of Barronelle was unprecedented," Waggoner said. "He has had 18 months to end the threat to our client's freedom and livelihood. It is interesting that this offer only materialized after his crusade to ruin this 70-year-old grandmother was exposed nationally."

Florist Who Refused to Do Flowers for Gay Wedding to Appeal - ABC News

There are a lot of very bigoted Leftist attorneys general across the country, the Duke Lacrosse scandal being a good example. Most attorneys general use prosecutorial discretion to avoid witch hunts and the application of the law where no real harm was done. But then there is a special kind of asshole who uses every power of their office to crucify people they consider to be ideological foes. This is one of them.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Lol. Follow the law or go to jail Fatty. I can't believe that I had to tell you that

Not if the law violates our rights. I'm not at all surprised I had to tell you that.

You have the right to keep Homosexual's out of your church, but not your business.

I am an American Scamp... I have the right to do business with anyone I want... and to not do business with anyone I do not want.

Because that is my right, I do not ask your permission to exercise it... and I will not consent to any would-be authority who presumes to require I must.

 

[JFK_USA]

""The attorney general's targeting of Barronelle was unprecedented," Waggoner said. "He has had 18 months to end the threat to our client's freedom and livelihood. It is interesting that this offer only materialized after his crusade to ruin this 70-year-old grandmother was exposed nationally."

Florist Who Refused to Do Flowers for Gay Wedding to Appeal - ABC News

There are a lot of very bigoted Leftist attorneys general across the country, the Duke Lacrosse scandal being a good example. Most attorneys general use prosecutorial discretion to avoid witch hunts and the application of the law where no real harm was done. But then there is a special kind of asshole who uses every power of their office to crucify people they consider to be ideological foes. This is one of them.

No real harm? The gay couple was humiliated and degraded because of the relationship they engage in. Harm does not have to be physical.