Florist Sued for Refusing Service to Gay Couple Pens Defiant Letter Rejecting Gov’t Settlement Offer

[Esmeralda]

As the bible depicts, the persecution of Christians is picking up steam and the temple will soon be built

If this isn't embedded with succession fuel, then nothing is. Interesting the modern Scarlet Letter 'G' for gay, represents victory when in actuality, we all feel sorry for their parents.

It's time for those of us raised in the Bible Belt to rise.

Muslim US government wants to attack Christians?

"Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess" -

-Geaux
===================================

(CNN)If you have not been following the case of Barronelle Stutzman, you should be.

Stutzman is the Washington florist who has been sued for living out her Christian beliefs. In 2013, a long-time friend and customer came to her flower shop and asked her to provide flowers for his gay wedding. Stutzman had known this man and had done business with him for about nine years. Nevertheless, she told him that she could not participate in his wedding "because of my relationship with Jesus."

The man's partner subsequently spread the word via social media. As a result, the attorney general of Washington State sued Stutzman for violating the state's anti-discrimination law. The two men also sued her in their personal capacity and were represented by the ACLU. As a result of these lawsuits, Stutzman stands to lose her business, her home, and her personal savings. Her whole life hangs in the balance with this case.

Yesterday, a Washington State judge issued a summary judgment that went against her. Stutzman's legal team put out this statement explaining what this means:

A state judge ruled Wednesday that Washington floral artist and grandmother Barronelle Stutzman must provide full support for wedding ceremonies that are contrary to her faith.

A florist loses religious freedom and much more - CNN.com

There is nothing in the Bible that says you can't supply flowers for a gay wedding. This florist's problem is bigotry, not adherence to religious doctrine.

 

[Mac1958]

Here is what is probably going to happen at least in some cases.

Those who do not wish to service Gay weddings will simply get lost on their way to deliver the flowers. Or they will get sick. Or something to the effect. What this really does is turn some people against gays for forcing their religion upon them. I see nothing good coming from such law suits.

It's human nature to not want to do something that is against our belief system, and it's human nature for a person's resolve to increase when this happens.

These people know this, they know they're making things worse by forcing these people to bend to their will.

But they don't care, because their will to intimidate and control is stronger than their interest in changing hearts and minds.

.

So you're saying the "christians" will do whatever they need to in order to "intimidate and control".

Well, they're certainly not following the teachings of Jesus.

No, I'm saying that about the American Left, the PC Police, people like you.

I hope that clarifies.

.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That's no more my business than their sexuality is but why would a business purposely discourage paying customers? That's also not my business.

What is the business of all of us is that our country supposedly stands for equality. More to the point, its the law.

Loony homophobes are welcome to their ignorant bigotry but they don't get to usurp that law.

You conveniently ignored my comment but here it is again:

The stupidity of RWs never ceases to amaze me. Or how many believe 'equality for all, except those you arbitrarily decide to hate'.

so a business owner has no freedom, only minorities have freedom? think about it, thats what you are saying.

You think a business owner should be able to pick and choose which laws he/she will obey? And if he decides not to obey a law, he should get a pass?

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

IOW, you can't justify your own position.

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

 

[bodecea]

As the bible depicts, the persecution of Christians is picking up steam and the temple will soon be built

If this isn't embedded with succession fuel, then nothing is. Interesting the modern Scarlet Letter 'G' for gay, represents victory when in actuality, we all feel sorry for their parents.

It's time for those of us raised in the Bible Belt to rise.

Muslim US government wants to attack Christians?

"Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess" -

-Geaux
===================================

(CNN)If you have not been following the case of Barronelle Stutzman, you should be.

Stutzman is the Washington florist who has been sued for living out her Christian beliefs. In 2013, a long-time friend and customer came to her flower shop and asked her to provide flowers for his gay wedding. Stutzman had known this man and had done business with him for about nine years. Nevertheless, she told him that she could not participate in his wedding "because of my relationship with Jesus."

The man's partner subsequently spread the word via social media. As a result, the attorney general of Washington State sued Stutzman for violating the state's anti-discrimination law. The two men also sued her in their personal capacity and were represented by the ACLU. As a result of these lawsuits, Stutzman stands to lose her business, her home, and her personal savings. Her whole life hangs in the balance with this case.

Yesterday, a Washington State judge issued a summary judgment that went against her. Stutzman's legal team put out this statement explaining what this means:

A state judge ruled Wednesday that Washington floral artist and grandmother Barronelle Stutzman must provide full support for wedding ceremonies that are contrary to her faith.

A florist loses religious freedom and much more - CNN.com

There is nothing in the Bible that says you can't supply flowers for a gay wedding. This florist's problem is bigotry, not adherence to religious doctrine.

She might be looking for a FOX speaking gig....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Here is what is probably going to happen at least in some cases.

Those who do not wish to service Gay weddings will simply get lost on their way to deliver the flowers. Or they will get sick. Or something to the effect. What this really does is turn some people against gays for forcing their religion upon them. I see nothing good coming from such law suits.

It's human nature to not want to do something that is against our belief system, and it's human nature for a person's resolve to increase when this happens.

These people know this, they know they're making things worse by forcing these people to bend to their will.

But they don't care, because their will to intimidate and control is stronger than their interest in changing hearts and minds.

.

So you're saying the "christians" will do whatever they need to in order to "intimidate and control".

Well, they're certainly not following the teachings of Jesus.

No, I'm saying that about the American Left, the PC Police, people like you.

I hope that clarifies.

.

WHOOOSH!!!

Right over your head.

 

[Mac1958]

Here is what is probably going to happen at least in some cases.

Those who do not wish to service Gay weddings will simply get lost on their way to deliver the flowers. Or they will get sick. Or something to the effect. What this really does is turn some people against gays for forcing their religion upon them. I see nothing good coming from such law suits.

It's human nature to not want to do something that is against our belief system, and it's human nature for a person's resolve to increase when this happens.

These people know this, they know they're making things worse by forcing these people to bend to their will.

But they don't care, because their will to intimidate and control is stronger than their interest in changing hearts and minds.

.

So you're saying the "christians" will do whatever they need to in order to "intimidate and control".

Well, they're certainly not following the teachings of Jesus.

No, I'm saying that about the American Left, the PC Police, people like you.

I hope that clarifies.

.

WHOOOSH!!!

Right over your head.

Oh, I see, you're just playing games.

Yeah, not interested, thanks.

.

 

[Redfish]

so a business owner has no freedom, only minorities have freedom? think about it, thats what you are saying.

You think a business owner should be able to pick and choose which laws he/she will obey? And if he decides not to obey a law, he should get a pass?

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

IOW, you can't justify your own position.

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

Yes, and I would never patronize your business because I do not do business with anti-american idiots.

I have never lived in a trailer, I am far from ignorant (Harvard MBA), but I do like crackers in my gumbo.

 

[Ravi]

Gays cannot discriminate against Christians. And no one has said they should be able to do so.

I have.

Libertarians don't count

 

[Luddly Neddite]

You think a business owner should be able to pick and choose which laws he/she will obey? And if he decides not to obey a law, he should get a pass?

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

IOW, you can't justify your own position.

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

Yes, and I would never patronize your business because I do not do business with anti-american idiots.

I have never lived in a trailer, I am far from ignorant (Harvard MBA), but I do like crackers in my gumbo.

Since I believe in equality and abiding by the law, you say I'm "anti-american".

And, again, you conveniently ignored the question:

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

 

[PratchettFan]

Be sure to read the comments on this loony blog.

The stupidity of RWs never ceases to amaze me. Or how many believe 'equality for all, except those you arbitrarily decide to hate'.

Just one question: why would a gay couple want to do business with a florist who does not approve of gay marriage? Why would they want to contribute to the profit of a business that does not approve of their lifestyle?

Try to answer honestly.

They had not been refused before that. They probably don't care if someone does not approve, they only cared when they were being discriminated against. Of course, that's just a guess on my part - not knowing them.

Ok, dude. I am a white cajun male. If I go up to Harlem and a black owned barbeque place refuses to sell me a rack or ribs because they don't like cajuns, I will just flip them off and go to another place to eat.

Why would I want to give my business to someone who does not like me?

you libs have this gay rights thing stuck up your ass. (bad analogy)

That is your choice. No one is going to hold a gun to your head to force you to do otherwise. But if they did that, they would be in violation of the law and you might want to stand up for your rights as a citizen. But again, no one is forcing you to stand up.

I ask again, why are the gays making a big deal of this? why not just do their business with a florist who approves of them marrying? Last time I checked, there were a lot of gay florists.

Because they don't want to just stand by quietly and be discriminated against.

 

[kaz]

I agree completely. I think that discriminating against homosexuals should not only be legal, but protected!

The only catch is that they should have to post big signs by the entrance and include a clearly visible "non fine print" disclaimer in all their advertisements that they refuse to serve homosexuals.

But what if all business in their area did that? What if there was no business in their area who would do business with them

Here you go sweetheart. Sucks to be you

That doesn't even remotely say that gays shouldn't have to deal with Christians.

You're right on the quote. I confused it with the other discussion, but you're still wrong, sorry. Liberals tried that and got fine to the point what if gays don't want to deal with them.

I'm not finding those quotes for you, you made the claim, I don't have to prove you wrong

No, you made the claim. I reread the thread and no one said that gay people should be able to refuse serving Christians.

When you said that Christians would object if the law was reversed and I said no, they wouldn't, that was me making the claim. Gotcha. Prove me wrong!!!

This discussion has spanned multiple threads actually and several liberals have made the accusation you did and each one whiffed like you did. If you want to know, why don't you start a thread with a poll? Just don't make it a stupid poll like liberals always do. What about these as the choices?

Would Christians be OK with laws allowing gay businesses to not do business with them if Christian businesses are allowed to not do business with gays?

I am not a Christian, I think Christians would object to that
I am not a Christian, I think Christians would not object to that
I am a Christian, I should be able to discriminate against gays but not the reverse
I am a Christian, I'm good both ways

If you want to know the truth, be sure to set it to display the voters so liberals don't stack the vote

Dude. Your stupid strawman is dismissed.

Gays cannot discriminate against Christians. And no one has said they should be able to do so.

Um...that wasn't the discussion, I challenged your claim christians would be upset if gays were allowed to discriminate against them. You actually don't want to know if they would or not, you are satisfied with having made the accusation

 

[Ravi]

But what if all business in their area did that? What if there was no business in their area who would do business with them

That doesn't even remotely say that gays shouldn't have to deal with Christians.

You're right on the quote. I confused it with the other discussion, but you're still wrong, sorry. Liberals tried that and got fine to the point what if gays don't want to deal with them.

I'm not finding those quotes for you, you made the claim, I don't have to prove you wrong

No, you made the claim. I reread the thread and no one said that gay people should be able to refuse serving Christians.

When you said that Christians would object if the law was reversed and I said no, they wouldn't, that was me making the claim. Gotcha. Prove me wrong!!!

This discussion has spanned multiple threads actually and several liberals have made the accusation you did and each one whiffed like you did. If you want to know, why don't you start a thread with a poll? Just don't make it a stupid poll like liberals always do. What about these as the choices?

Would Christians be OK with laws allowing gay businesses to not do business with them if Christian businesses are allowed to not do business with gays?

I am not a Christian, I think Christians would object to that
I am not a Christian, I think Christians would not object to that
I am a Christian, I should be able to discriminate against gays but not the reverse
I am a Christian, I'm good both ways

If you want to know the truth, be sure to set it to display the voters so liberals don't stack the vote

Dude. Your stupid strawman is dismissed.

Gays cannot discriminate against Christians. And no one has said they should be able to do so.

Um...that wasn't the discussion, I challenged your claim christians would be upset if gays were allowed to discriminate against them. You actually don't want to know if they would or not, you are satisfied with having made the accusation

I didn't make such a claim.

 

[PratchettFan]

Here is what is probably going to happen at least in some cases.

Those who do not wish to service Gay weddings will simply get lost on their way to deliver the flowers. Or they will get sick. Or something to the effect. What this really does is turn some people against gays for forcing their religion upon them. I see nothing good coming from such law suits.

It's human nature to not want to do something that is against our belief system, and it's human nature for a person's resolve to increase when this happens.

These people know this, they know they're making things worse by forcing these people to bend to their will.

But they don't care, because their will to intimidate and control is stronger than their interest in changing hearts and minds.

.

And the same arguments were made when blacks refused to go to the back of the bus and sat down at the diner counter. I think we survived the pain.

 

[Redfish]

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

IOW, you can't justify your own position.

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

Yes, and I would never patronize your business because I do not do business with anti-american idiots.

I have never lived in a trailer, I am far from ignorant (Harvard MBA), but I do like crackers in my gumbo.

Since I believe in equality and abiding by the law, you say I'm "anti-american".

And, again, you conveniently ignored the question:

Should I be able to refuse service to you based on my hatred for ignorant, trailer trash, crackers?

I answered your foolish bigoted question. I said

"Yes, and I would never patronize your business because I do not do business with anti-american idiots."

 

[PratchettFan]

That's no more my business than their sexuality is but why would a business purposely discourage paying customers? That's also not my business.

What is the business of all of us is that our country supposedly stands for equality. More to the point, its the law.

Loony homophobes are welcome to their ignorant bigotry but they don't get to usurp that law.

You conveniently ignored my comment but here it is again:

The stupidity of RWs never ceases to amaze me. Or how many believe 'equality for all, except those you arbitrarily decide to hate'.

so a business owner has no freedom, only minorities have freedom? think about it, thats what you are saying.

You think a business owner should be able to pick and choose which laws he/she will obey? And if he decides not to obey a law, he should get a pass?

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

This was a court ruling. Do I actually have to show the court was referencing a statute?

I have no idea why you would want to. I have already said that is your choice. Do it or don't. You have the option to do it if it means that much to you. Apparently it meant that much to this particular couple.

 

[Redfish]

Just one question: why would a gay couple want to do business with a florist who does not approve of gay marriage? Why would they want to contribute to the profit of a business that does not approve of their lifestyle?

Try to answer honestly.

They had not been refused before that. They probably don't care if someone does not approve, they only cared when they were being discriminated against. Of course, that's just a guess on my part - not knowing them.

Ok, dude. I am a white cajun male. If I go up to Harlem and a black owned barbeque place refuses to sell me a rack or ribs because they don't like cajuns, I will just flip them off and go to another place to eat.

Why would I want to give my business to someone who does not like me?

you libs have this gay rights thing stuck up your ass. (bad analogy)

That is your choice. No one is going to hold a gun to your head to force you to do otherwise. But if they did that, they would be in violation of the law and you might want to stand up for your rights as a citizen. But again, no one is forcing you to stand up.

I ask again, why are the gays making a big deal of this? why not just do their business with a florist who approves of them marrying? Last time I checked, there were a lot of gay florists.

Because they don't want to just stand by quietly and be discriminated against.

So you are admitting that they only did this to stir up shit, and at the same time refused to give their business to a florist who approved of their lifestyle?

So the gay agenda is out to punish those who agree with them as well as those who may disagree with them.

Punish everyone until the government forces everyone to beleive what the government dictates that we must believe. Have you read 1984 by Orwell? Do you understand what thought control means?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It's human nature to not want to do something that is against our belief system, and it's human nature for a person's resolve to increase when this happens.

These people know this, they know they're making things worse by forcing these people to bend to their will.

But they don't care, because their will to intimidate and control is stronger than their interest in changing hearts and minds.

.

The adoption of a belief system does not provide a person with a special exemption by way of acting in any manner they wish. A person could choose to believe that skinning a human sacrifice is necessary to placate the will of Xipe Totec, but any steps they might take towards acting on such beliefs would be restricted by law. We have a separation of church and state in our country, and so actions conducted in the public sphere are subject to secular law.

The day when the state dictates what can be taught in churches, THEN people could say quite rightly that Christianity is under attack, but until such a time, all this blather only serves to mask the central issue of public accommodation. I happen to own a business open to the public, and as such, I understand my responsibility when it comes to such public accommodation.

As far as this notion about people out to "intimidate and control" is concerned, who is actually engaging in the intimidation and control -- those who represent an ingrained system of arbitrary prejudice acting in a hostile fashion towards an oppressed minority or the minority acting to establish their basic rights?

 

[PratchettFan]

From the Washington state consitution:

SECTION 11 RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. Absolute freedom of conscience in all matters of religious sentiment, belief and worship, shall be guaranteed to every individual, and no one shall be molested or disturbed in person or property on account of religion; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness or justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the state. No public money or property shall be appropriated for or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment: PROVIDED, HOWEVER, That this article shall not be so construed as to forbid the employment by the state of a chaplain for such of the state custodial, correctional, and mental institutions, or by a county's or public hospital district's hospital, health care facility, or hospice, as in the discretion of the legislature may seem justified. No religious qualification shall be required for any public office or employment, nor shall any person be incompetent as a witness or juror, in consequence of his opinion on matters of religion, nor be questioned in any court of justice touching his religious belief to affect the weight of his testimony. [AMENDMENT 88, 1993 House Joint Resolution No. 4200, p 3062. Approved November 2, 1993.]

Laws and Agency Rules Washington State Constitution

How does the courts ruling jive with the state constitution?

Good question. You should bring that up to the judge. I suspect he will respond "but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness or justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the state."

 

[Redfish]

so a business owner has no freedom, only minorities have freedom? think about it, thats what you are saying.

You think a business owner should be able to pick and choose which laws he/she will obey? And if he decides not to obey a law, he should get a pass?

please quote the state or federal statute that says that florists must provide their services to gay couples.

There are bars in the 9th ward of New Orleans that do not serve whites, but I have no desire to go there and buy a beer. Should I force them to sell to me? Why?

I'm pretty sure the laws of Louisiana don't apply to this case. But yeah, if you feel it is wrong they won't serve you then you should stand up and do something about it.

I asked you to cite the statutes that applied in this case, guess you can't do that.

Why would I want to force a black bar to serve me? What would I gain by doing that? maybe a gunshot or a knife in the gut. So I force them to serve me, a fight starts, people get hurt, the cops come and arrest a bunch of people, the bar owner loses his business. All because I chose to be an asshole?

The whole gay agenda is just foolish, it is hurting the gay cause much more than helping it.

This was a court ruling. Do I actually have to show the court was referencing a statute?

I have no idea why you would want to. I have already said that is your choice. Do it or don't. You have the option to do it if it means that much to you. Apparently it meant that much to this particular couple.

What did they gain? They get to pay legal bills, court costs, risk being counter sued. Managed to alienate many who might otherwise support them.

Liberals do not think rationally about anything. You shit in your soup and then ***** because it tastes bad.

 

[kaz]

And btw, there were no laws against homosexual marriage until the bigots passed them.

So name a gay couple that got married before the courts started ordering States to marry gay couples