Florist Sued for Refusing Service to Gay Couple Pens Defiant Letter Rejecting Gov’t Settlement Offer

[SwimExpert]

Is gender immutable?

Not anymore.

So gender discrimination is okay?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can see your skin color, but I can't see your sexual orientation.

Exactly - there is no way to know the sexual preference of another unless they choose to reveal it.

 

[bendog]

However, it leaned Goldwater and opposed the civil rights acts.

Barry Goldwater supported every Civil Rights act up until the 1964 version. And he didn't oppose the the 1964 version on racist grounds, but purely on states rights grounds. He believed it infringed on the right of businesses to serve whomever they chose.

I don't know that Goldwater supported any civil rights act than affected the private right to contract, but he was not a bigot. Quite the opposite. But, my point was the modern Miss GOP that arose in the early 60s and found a common ground with Goldwater did not support segregation, while at the time dems did so. Wirt Yerger was asked around 1960 whether a black man would be welcome in the party and he said "so long as he's a conservative." (-:

When Trent Lott unwisely said the country would have been better off with Ole Strom than Harry Truman, he was attempting to say that segregation would have been ended by megacorporations like WalMart and McDonalds who don't give a rat's behind about the race of their customers so long as they buy stuff.

 

[Skylar]

Try reading before responding. Did I say Gay is a race? Nope! But your failure to comprehend my post put you in a particularly poor light.

While we protect race because it is not a factor in what a person is, sexual preference is a behavior and cannot rationally be protected.

By associating homosexuality with race, you offer the same logical fallacy that your party does in general.

Race, like sexual orientation, is an immutable fact.

I can see your skin color, but I can't see your sexual orientation.

And yet that baker was able to glean the sexual orientation of the gay folks she denied a cake for. The USSC clearly recognizes a corollary in the denial of rights between race and sexual orientation. Between Romer and Windsor, the USSC cited 4 different race based cases when describing why the rights of gays were to be protected.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

So gender discrimination is okay?

Sometimes it's vital.

 

[BlindBoo]

Under the Constitution, and in a tolerant and fair society, you should have no "right" to force a Christian photographer to service a gay wedding.

Right because is a tolerant society the Christian (service provider) wouldn't discriminate against the sexual orientation of others.

Good call.

 

[SwimExpert]

Then why strip the civil rights from others?

I said long ago that those who turn away customers are fools. BUT it is the right of any free person to trade with those they choose, and not trade with those they don't.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. If you go back, you'll see me suggest that discrimination against homosexuals should be legally protected, and that the only requirement should be that a business post large signs at their entrances, and disclaimers in their advertising.

If you're gay and someone does not want your business, you should not want to make them money. There are plenty of others who are happy to accept your money.

 

[bendog]

I'm oddly fascinated with the idea of lesbians constantly hitting on KG.

 

[Katzndogz]

One day a gay couple is going to choose a Christian baker or florist and get told "Because of the loss of artistic and religious freedom to the gay mafia's demands I no longer offer wedding services. Would you like some brownies?"

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I'm oddly fascinated with the idea of lesbians constantly hitting on KG.

The boyfriend must make her look like a ***-hag.

 

[SwimExpert]

Sometimes it's vital.

It's vital to pay a woman less than a man, simply because she's a woman? I understand the point you're aiming at, but I also think you're intentionally addressing a different point than where I was going. Moving on...

How about religion? Is religion immutable? Is discrimination based on religion okay?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

One day a gay couple is going to choose a Christian baker or florist and get told "Because of the loss of artistic and religious freedom to the gay mafia's demands I no longer offer wedding services. Would you like some brownies?"

Go for it.

 

[Katzndogz]

Then why strip the civil rights from others?

I said long ago that those who turn away customers are fools. BUT it is the right of any free person to trade with those they choose, and not trade with those they don't.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. If you go back, you'll see me suggest that discrimination against homosexuals should be legally protected, and that the only requirement should be that a business post large signs at their entrances, and disclaimers in their advertising.

If you're gay and someone does not want your business, you should not want to make them money. There are plenty of others who are happy to accept your money.

Gad. They would make a fortune. Look at what happened to Chick fil A and Masterpiece bakery.

 

[SwimExpert]

Right because is a tolerant society the Christian (service provider) wouldn't discriminate against the sexual orientation of others.

Good call.

Composition fallacy. A tolerant society does not require all members to be tolerant anymore than a cake requires all its ingredients to be cake. A tolerant society is one where laws and public policy tolerate variety in opinions, beliefs, practices, etc.

 

[Katzndogz]

One day a gay couple is going to choose a Christian baker or florist and get told "Because of the loss of artistic and religious freedom to the gay mafia's demands I no longer offer wedding services. Would you like some brownies?"

Go for it.

It has to happen. Christians won't be persecuted forever.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

One day a gay couple is going to choose a Christian baker or florist and get told "Because of the loss of artistic and religious freedom to the gay mafia's demands I no longer offer wedding services. Would you like some brownies?"

Go for it.

It has to happen. Christians won't be persecuted forever.

According to Jesus and Paul they will be, or did you miss that part?

 

[SwimExpert]

Gad. They would make a fortune. Look at what happened to Chick fil A and Masterpiece bakery.

Chik fil A does not discriminate against homosexuals.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you operated a kosher butcher shop and a customer asked for a pound of bacon, your religious sensibilities might be ruffled, but, more importantly, you do not stock bacon. So refusal of service is no big deal.

Of course it's no big deal. It is also equally simple for a gay couple to see service elsewhere. No big deal.

If, on the other hand, you operated a flower shop and your business is to create floral arraignments, you would not consider the act of arraigning flowers as part of your daily worship or a sacrament of your faith, but you would consider it precisely what it actually is: part and parcel of your business.

Religion is part and parcel of her business. I most certainly wouldn't want to serve someone who is capable of destroying my livelihood and forcing me to change my beliefs for the sake of appeasing the beliefs of my customers.

Your religious beliefs are not directly connected to your business, if that business serves folks with the items you have at hand to sell. Vendors ain't priests. Dogma ain't legal cover, especially when your business has nothing to do after the customer takes his purchase from your shop.

That isn't for you or for government to decide.

So, on the other hand, why can't this argument be applied to homosexual customers? If you really want a product bad enough, you'll find someone who will sell it to you, whether you are the one who sells it to them or not. What you call "dogma" happens to be my First Amendment Rights.

I would gladly let the customer boycott me if it meant holding true to my religious beliefs.

And what florist investigates the couples getting married? What florist should be the arbiter of the propriety of the occasion? What florist should give their personal imperator to a wedding?

Good question. Hey, here's a thought:

It isn't a matter of florists. Why should the government dictate the propriety of a certain occasion? What government or gay couple should give their personal imperator to the religious beliefs of the proprietor?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Gad. They would make a fortune. Look at what happened to Chick fil A and Masterpiece bakery.

Chik fil A does not discriminate against homosexuals.

And they don't fund anti-gay marriage groups any longer either. Their business is chicken, not politics.

 

[bendog]

Is masterpiece still challenging the court order to bake the damn cakes?