Zone1 Flood Legends

[Disir]

"In the true Arctic shamanic realm, rain can be taken for granted. In the near-rainless river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia, crops can be grown through state-controlled irrigation, and only so. In the Mediterranean realm, a seer who is thought to manage the withholding and grantinf of rain holds the keys of life and death. Greek Kleis “key” went into Aramaic: at Luke 11:52 the “key of knowledge become sin the Syriac qlyd’ dyd ‘t’; see Rev 1:18 “the keys of death and Hades.” See Matt 16:19 “the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” The theme is taken up in Qur’an 39.63: “His are the keys (maqalidu) of heaven and earth,” where maqalidu is the plural of maqlid, an inner -Arabic extension of the Greek.

The rabbis agreed (Gen.Rabbah 73.4; Deut. Rabbah 7.6) that the Holy One had three keys: the key of the raising of the dead, for he says (Ezek 37:12), “I will open your graves”; the key of the womb, for it is written (Gen 29:31), “And he opened her womb”; and the key of the rain for it is said (Deut 28:12), “Yahweh will open to you his good treasure.” But individually they are called in Greek style ‘qlyd’.

This doctrine provides a most ingenious exegesis of the history of Elijah (b, Sanh. 113a). He rashly predicted drought; in a weak moment the Holy One gave him the key of rain. He locked the rain up but couldn’t reopen it. A Galilean said, “He is like a man who locked the gate and lost the key.” The Holy One saw distress on the world and resorted to subterfuge. He sent Elijah to Sarepta where the widow’s son was sick, and Elijah begged mercy to be given the key of the raising of the dead. The Holy One said, “Three keys have never been given to angel or seraph (Deut. Rabbah); people will say, “Two are in the hand of the talmid and one in the hand of the Rab?’ Return that one and take this one.” So he got the key of the rain back, and the storm at Carmel follows. But Elijah kept the key of the raising of the dead.

The vocabulary of rain mostly relates to the High God; here we look at the role of the seer. The displeasure of the god is made manifest by the withholding of rain. When the Pythia at Delphi tells the men of Thera to colonize Libya, and they refuse , “for seven years it did not rain on Thera” (Herodotus 4.151.1); the figure is conventional, cf. the “seven years of famine” of Gen 41:30 in Egypt. Elijah is abruptly introduced (1 Kgs 17:1) saying to Ahab, “As Yahweh the God of Israel lives, there shall be neither rain nor dew these years, except by my word.” Yahweh in his brief against Israel (Amos 4:6-13) lists all his warnings, “yet you did not return to me”; he rains on one city or field and not on another."

He goes on to say that “the God” can also carry out the alternate style of warning by bringing on unseasonable and damaging rain as in 1 Sam 12:17. Zeus can do the same for the same reasons (Hesiod Opera 263-264). It is also pointed out that Greek lampas and Hebrew lappid can both mean “torch” and “lightening”. Additionally there is a brief section of priests and seers that are performing water rituals for agricultural purposes- including Egypt.

Further into the book (p 188) it is pointed out that the Hellenes and Yahweh both share similar views on what the world looked like. Land and sea are circular and the earth for the Abrahamic God is “wheel shaped.” We know that there is an earlier recorded version of the flood by the Sumerians. He says, The later flood legends as of Noah and Deucalion surely rest in part on the great tsunami of (perhaps) 1628 B.C.E.; folk memory may have retained some relic of the great cataract when the level of the Black Sea was raised 350 feet about 5600 BCE.

What if it really is a combo on that flood story and it became a part of “folk memory”? The Big One as it were. similar to how we all wait for California to fall into the ocean. TBH, I didn’t know about the Black Sea going up. This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor. I included enough from him as best I could for those that like to look up their own stuff.

 

[Disir]

I forgot to include that everyone had keys.
Aikos was the guardian of the keys of Hades and judge of the men of Europe. Eros had the keys of heaven and earth. Hesykhia had the supreme keys of counsel and wars and then there is Hekate and Hades.

 

[surada]

"In the true Arctic shamanic realm, rain can be taken for granted. In the near-rainless river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia, crops can be grown through state-controlled irrigation, and only so. In the Mediterranean realm, a seer who is thought to manage the withholding and grantinf of rain holds the keys of life and death. Greek Kleis “key” went into Aramaic: at Luke 11:52 the “key of knowledge become sin the Syriac qlyd’ dyd ‘t’; see Rev 1:18 “the keys of death and Hades.” See Matt 16:19 “the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” The theme is taken up in Qur’an 39.63: “His are the keys (maqalidu) of heaven and earth,” where maqalidu is the plural of maqlid, an inner -Arabic extension of the Greek.

The rabbis agreed (Gen.Rabbah 73.4; Deut. Rabbah 7.6) that the Holy One had three keys: the key of the raising of the dead, for he says (Ezek 37:12), “I will open your graves”; the key of the womb, for it is written (Gen 29:31), “And he opened her womb”; and the key of the rain for it is said (Deut 28:12), “Yahweh will open to you his good treasure.” But individually they are called in Greek style ‘qlyd’.

This doctrine provides a most ingenious exegesis of the history of Elijah (b, Sanh. 113a). He rashly predicted drought; in a weak moment the Holy One gave him the key of rain. He locked the rain up but couldn’t reopen it. A Galilean said, “He is like a man who locked the gate and lost the key.” The Holy One saw distress on the world and resorted to subterfuge. He sent Elijah to Sarepta where the widow’s son was sick, and Elijah begged mercy to be given the key of the raising of the dead. The Holy One said, “Three keys have never been given to angel or seraph (Deut. Rabbah); people will say, “Two are in the hand of the talmid and one in the hand of the Rab?’ Return that one and take this one.” So he got the key of the rain back, and the storm at Carmel follows. But Elijah kept the key of the raising of the dead.

The vocabulary of rain mostly relates to the High God; here we look at the role of the seer. The displeasure of the god is made manifest by the withholding of rain. When the Pythia at Delphi tells the men of Thera to colonize Libya, and they refuse , “for seven years it did not rain on Thera” (Herodotus 4.151.1); the figure is conventional, cf. the “seven years of famine” of Gen 41:30 in Egypt. Elijah is abruptly introduced (1 Kgs 17:1) saying to Ahab, “As Yahweh the God of Israel lives, there shall be neither rain nor dew these years, except by my word.” Yahweh in his brief against Israel (Amos 4:6-13) lists all his warnings, “yet you did not return to me”; he rains on one city or field and not on another."

He goes on to say that “the God” can also carry out the alternate style of warning by bringing on unseasonable and damaging rain as in 1 Sam 12:17. Zeus can do the same for the same reasons (Hesiod Opera 263-264). It is also pointed out that Greek lampas and Hebrew lappid can both mean “torch” and “lightening”. Additionally there is a brief section of priests and seers that are performing water rituals for agricultural purposes- including Egypt.

Further into the book (p 188) it is pointed out that the Hellenes and Yahweh both share similar views on what the world looked like. Land and sea are circular and the earth for the Abrahamic God is “wheel shaped.” We know that there is an earlier recorded version of the flood by the Sumerians. He says, The later flood legends as of Noah and Deucalion surely rest in part on the great tsunami of (perhaps) 1628 B.C.E.; folk memory may have retained some relic of the great cataract when the level of the Black Sea was raised 350 feet about 5600 BCE.

What if it really is a combo on that flood story and it became a part of “folk memory”? The Big One as it were. similar to how we all wait for California to fall into the ocean. TBH, I didn’t know about the Black Sea going up. This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor. I included enough from him as best I could for those that like to look up their own stuff.

What is your source?

 

[Disir]

What is your source?

It's in the post you replied to.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's in the post you replied to.

You are assuming she can read.

 

[Cougarbear]

"In the true Arctic shamanic realm, rain can be taken for granted. In the near-rainless river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia, crops can be grown through state-controlled irrigation, and only so. In the Mediterranean realm, a seer who is thought to manage the withholding and grantinf of rain holds the keys of life and death. Greek Kleis “key” went into Aramaic: at Luke 11:52 the “key of knowledge become sin the Syriac qlyd’ dyd ‘t’; see Rev 1:18 “the keys of death and Hades.” See Matt 16:19 “the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” The theme is taken up in Qur’an 39.63: “His are the keys (maqalidu) of heaven and earth,” where maqalidu is the plural of maqlid, an inner -Arabic extension of the Greek.

The rabbis agreed (Gen.Rabbah 73.4; Deut. Rabbah 7.6) that the Holy One had three keys: the key of the raising of the dead, for he says (Ezek 37:12), “I will open your graves”; the key of the womb, for it is written (Gen 29:31), “And he opened her womb”; and the key of the rain for it is said (Deut 28:12), “Yahweh will open to you his good treasure.” But individually they are called in Greek style ‘qlyd’.

This doctrine provides a most ingenious exegesis of the history of Elijah (b, Sanh. 113a). He rashly predicted drought; in a weak moment the Holy One gave him the key of rain. He locked the rain up but couldn’t reopen it. A Galilean said, “He is like a man who locked the gate and lost the key.” The Holy One saw distress on the world and resorted to subterfuge. He sent Elijah to Sarepta where the widow’s son was sick, and Elijah begged mercy to be given the key of the raising of the dead. The Holy One said, “Three keys have never been given to angel or seraph (Deut. Rabbah); people will say, “Two are in the hand of the talmid and one in the hand of the Rab?’ Return that one and take this one.” So he got the key of the rain back, and the storm at Carmel follows. But Elijah kept the key of the raising of the dead.

The vocabulary of rain mostly relates to the High God; here we look at the role of the seer. The displeasure of the god is made manifest by the withholding of rain. When the Pythia at Delphi tells the men of Thera to colonize Libya, and they refuse , “for seven years it did not rain on Thera” (Herodotus 4.151.1); the figure is conventional, cf. the “seven years of famine” of Gen 41:30 in Egypt. Elijah is abruptly introduced (1 Kgs 17:1) saying to Ahab, “As Yahweh the God of Israel lives, there shall be neither rain nor dew these years, except by my word.” Yahweh in his brief against Israel (Amos 4:6-13) lists all his warnings, “yet you did not return to me”; he rains on one city or field and not on another."

He goes on to say that “the God” can also carry out the alternate style of warning by bringing on unseasonable and damaging rain as in 1 Sam 12:17. Zeus can do the same for the same reasons (Hesiod Opera 263-264). It is also pointed out that Greek lampas and Hebrew lappid can both mean “torch” and “lightening”. Additionally there is a brief section of priests and seers that are performing water rituals for agricultural purposes- including Egypt.

Further into the book (p 188) it is pointed out that the Hellenes and Yahweh both share similar views on what the world looked like. Land and sea are circular and the earth for the Abrahamic God is “wheel shaped.” We know that there is an earlier recorded version of the flood by the Sumerians. He says, The later flood legends as of Noah and Deucalion surely rest in part on the great tsunami of (perhaps) 1628 B.C.E.; folk memory may have retained some relic of the great cataract when the level of the Black Sea was raised 350 feet about 5600 BCE.

What if it really is a combo on that flood story and it became a part of “folk memory”? The Big One as it were. similar to how we all wait for California to fall into the ocean. TBH, I didn’t know about the Black Sea going up. This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor. I included enough from him as best I could for those that like to look up their own stuff.

Elijah kept the keys of sealing or binding families together when the resurrection takes place. Malachi 4:5-6; "5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote in Doctrine and Covenants Section 2 Versus 1 - 3, "Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If t were no so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming." The "fathers" are those who did not live on the earth when the sealing powers of families was done because the true Priesthood with authority to bind on earth to be bound in heaven was not found among man. Apostasy gripped the earth most of the time. Thus, in order to bind the fathers to their children and families, the Temple had to exist. In these latter days, only one church-religion has these Temples and authority to bind or seal families together with the living and the dead. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thanks for bringing up Elijah...

 

[Disir]

You are assuming she can read.

Surada is not interested in the topic. She just wanted to see if I would respond. That was the point.

 

[surada]

[QUOTE="Disir, post

"In the true Arctic shamanic realm, rain can be taken for granted. In the near-rainless river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia, crops can be grown through state-controlled irrigation, and only so. In the Mediterranean realm, a seer who is thought to manage the withholding and grantinf of rain holds the keys of life and death. Greek Kleis “key” went into Aramaic: at Luke 11:52 the “key of knowledge become sin the Syriac qlyd’ dyd ‘t’; see Rev 1:18 “the keys of death and Hades.” See Matt 16:19 “the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” The theme is taken up in Qur’an 39.63: “His are the keys (maqalidu) of heaven and earth,” where maqalidu is the plural of maqlid, an inner -Arabic extension of the Greek.

The rabbis agreed (Gen.Rabbah 73.4; Deut. Rabbah 7.6) that the Holy One had three keys: the key of the raising of the dead, for he says (Ezek 37:12), “I will open your graves”; the key of the womb, for it is written (Gen 29:31), “And he opened her womb”; and the key of the rain for it is said (Deut 28:12), “Yahweh will open to you his good treasure.” But individually they are called in Greek style ‘qlyd’.

This doctrine provides a most ingenious exegesis of the history of Elijah (b, Sanh. 113a). He rashly predicted drought; in a weak moment the Holy One gave him the key of rain. He locked the rain up but couldn’t reopen it. A Galilean said, “He is like a man who locked the gate and lost the key.” The Holy One saw distress on the world and resorted to subterfuge. He sent Elijah to Sarepta where the widow’s son was sick, and Elijah begged mercy to be given the key of the raising of the dead. The Holy One said, “Three keys have never been given to angel or seraph (Deut. Rabbah); people will say, “Two are in the hand of the talmid and one in the hand of the Rab?’ Return that one and take this one.” So he got the key of the rain back, and the storm at Carmel follows. But Elijah kept the key of the raising of the dead.

The vocabulary of rain mostly relates to the High God; here we look at the role of the seer. The displeasure of the god is made manifest by the withholding of rain. When the Pythia at Delphi tells the men of Thera to colonize Libya, and they refuse , “for seven years it did not rain on Thera” (Herodotus 4.151.1); the figure is conventional, cf. the “seven years of famine” of Gen 41:30 in Egypt. Elijah is abruptly introduced (1 Kgs 17:1) saying to Ahab, “As Yahweh the God of Israel lives, there shall be neither rain nor dew these years, except by my word.” Yahweh in his brief against Israel (Amos 4:6-13) lists all his warnings, “yet you did not return to me”; he rains on one city or field and not on another."

He goes on to say that “the God” can also carry out the alternate style of warning by bringing on unseasonable and damaging rain as in 1 Sam 12:17. Zeus can do the same for the same reasons (Hesiod Opera 263-264). It is also pointed out that Greek lampas and Hebrew lappid can both mean “torch” and “lightening”. Additionally there is a brief section of priests and seers that are performing water rituals for agricultural purposes- including Egypt.

Further into the book (p 188) it is pointed out that the Hellenes and Yahweh both share similar views on what the world looked like. Land and sea are circular and the earth for the Abrahamic God is “wheel shaped.” We know that there is an earlier recorded version of the flood by the Sumerians. He says, The later flood legends as of Noah and Deucalion surely rest in part on the great tsunami of (perhaps) 1628 B.C.E.; folk memory may have retained some relic of the great cataract when the level of the Black Sea was raised 350 feet about 5600 BCE.

What if it really is a combo on that flood story and it became a part of “folk memory”? The Big One as it were. similar to how we all wait for California to fall into the ocean. TBH, I didn’t know about the Black Sea going up. This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor. I included enough from him as best I could for those that like to look up their own stuff.

I still don't see a source for this cut and paste. Are you a Mormon?

 

[Disir]

[QUOTE="Disir, post

"In the true Arctic shamanic realm, rain can be taken for granted. In the near-rainless river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia, crops can be grown through state-controlled irrigation, and only so. In the Mediterranean realm, a seer who is thought to manage the withholding and grantinf of rain holds the keys of life and death. Greek Kleis “key” went into Aramaic: at Luke 11:52 the “key of knowledge become sin the Syriac qlyd’ dyd ‘t’; see Rev 1:18 “the keys of death and Hades.” See Matt 16:19 “the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” The theme is taken up in Qur’an 39.63: “His are the keys (maqalidu) of heaven and earth,” where maqalidu is the plural of maqlid, an inner -Arabic extension of the Greek.

The rabbis agreed (Gen.Rabbah 73.4; Deut. Rabbah 7.6) that the Holy One had three keys: the key of the raising of the dead, for he says (Ezek 37:12), “I will open your graves”; the key of the womb, for it is written (Gen 29:31), “And he opened her womb”; and the key of the rain for it is said (Deut 28:12), “Yahweh will open to you his good treasure.” But individually they are called in Greek style ‘qlyd’.

This doctrine provides a most ingenious exegesis of the history of Elijah (b, Sanh. 113a). He rashly predicted drought; in a weak moment the Holy One gave him the key of rain. He locked the rain up but couldn’t reopen it. A Galilean said, “He is like a man who locked the gate and lost the key.” The Holy One saw distress on the world and resorted to subterfuge. He sent Elijah to Sarepta where the widow’s son was sick, and Elijah begged mercy to be given the key of the raising of the dead. The Holy One said, “Three keys have never been given to angel or seraph (Deut. Rabbah); people will say, “Two are in the hand of the talmid and one in the hand of the Rab?’ Return that one and take this one.” So he got the key of the rain back, and the storm at Carmel follows. But Elijah kept the key of the raising of the dead.

The vocabulary of rain mostly relates to the High God; here we look at the role of the seer. The displeasure of the god is made manifest by the withholding of rain. When the Pythia at Delphi tells the men of Thera to colonize Libya, and they refuse , “for seven years it did not rain on Thera” (Herodotus 4.151.1); the figure is conventional, cf. the “seven years of famine” of Gen 41:30 in Egypt. Elijah is abruptly introduced (1 Kgs 17:1) saying to Ahab, “As Yahweh the God of Israel lives, there shall be neither rain nor dew these years, except by my word.” Yahweh in his brief against Israel (Amos 4:6-13) lists all his warnings, “yet you did not return to me”; he rains on one city or field and not on another."

He goes on to say that “the God” can also carry out the alternate style of warning by bringing on unseasonable and damaging rain as in 1 Sam 12:17. Zeus can do the same for the same reasons (Hesiod Opera 263-264). It is also pointed out that Greek lampas and Hebrew lappid can both mean “torch” and “lightening”. Additionally there is a brief section of priests and seers that are performing water rituals for agricultural purposes- including Egypt.

Further into the book (p 188) it is pointed out that the Hellenes and Yahweh both share similar views on what the world looked like. Land and sea are circular and the earth for the Abrahamic God is “wheel shaped.” We know that there is an earlier recorded version of the flood by the Sumerians. He says, The later flood legends as of Noah and Deucalion surely rest in part on the great tsunami of (perhaps) 1628 B.C.E.; folk memory may have retained some relic of the great cataract when the level of the Black Sea was raised 350 feet about 5600 BCE.

What if it really is a combo on that flood story and it became a part of “folk memory”? The Big One as it were. similar to how we all wait for California to fall into the ocean. TBH, I didn’t know about the Black Sea going up. This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor. I included enough from him as best I could for those that like to look up their own stuff.

I still don't see a source for this cut and paste. Are you a Mormon?

Then re-read it.

 

[luiza]

There are flood stories from all over the globe and the Noah story is repeated in all main details .

Where it gets even more interesting is when you link up the star gods and deities in all these narratives .

In the middle east it obviously was centered on the Sumerians and their deities , The Anunnaki .
The beings that appeared out of nowhere , figuratively, and then cleared out very rapidly when the heavens opened -- ---- presumed large asteroid strike .
DYOR .

 

[surada]

It's in the post you replied to.

I don't see it.

 

[Disir]

I don't see it

Of course not, sweetie. I'm going to help you because this isn't 3rd grade. Welcome to ignore where you are free to act as ignorant as you want---just not with me.

 

[surada]

There are flood stories from all over the globe and the Noah story is repeated in all main details .

Where it gets even more interesting is when you link up the star gods and deities in all these narratives .

In the middle east it obviously was centered on the Sumerians and their deities , The Anunnaki .
The beings that appeared out of nowhere , figuratively, and then cleared out very rapidly when the heavens opened -- ---- presumed large asteroid strike .
DYOR .

The flood stories happened at different times... and some places didn't flood.

 

[surada]

Surada is not interested in the topic. She just wanted to see if I would respond. That was the point.

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving flood so there was plenty of time to get people and livestock to higher ground. Timing coincides with the rapid spread of agriculture beyond the Black Sea

 

[ding]

I still don't see a source for this cut and paste. Are you a Mormon?

Then you didn't read what you quoted.

This is from John Pairman Brown’s Ancient Israel and Ancient Greece. He was a biblical scholar and was a professor.