Flawed logic of ULLYSESS ARCHER & Christian standard means Charles Manson is Jesus.

[HaShev]

These silly claims to Jesus being Messiah are based on saying he fit 300 prophecy, most of which aren't even messianic or properly read and stated. Some are even comically based on NT post dated script instead of OT.

Using this logic if Charles Manson fit 300 characteristics of Jesus without manipulating the characteristics or cheating like people do in emulating Moshiach then Charles Manson has to be Jesus according to Christian standards of reasoning. And since Charles Manson does fulfill the coming of Jesus in over 300 ways then Jesus came back bringing division & as a murderer as he said he would in Matthew, Thomas, and Peter.
Since Jesus fulfilled over 300 verses on Satan then he must be Satan of the Bible.
Therefore Christianity standards and reasoning suggest Satan was Jesus and he came back as Charles Manson and your arguing this fact would suggest you are admitting Christianity's logic and reasoning on Moshiach is skewed.

Therfore moshiach claims must be forfeited and the standard to decipher MOshiach has to be re-evaluated and rediscovered by fulfillment of legitimate expectations that are Torah based not oral pagan borrowed traditions and self testimony.
Conclusion" Jesus either wasn't messiah like you thought or by your standards he had to be Satan, either way your character becomes the adversary and thief, thus either way he can be concluded as Satan.

FACT: Jesus is depicted like a long haired hippy in sandles.
Charles Manson claimed to be Jesus and was a hippy in sandles, we must take Manson for his word in even standard to Christians taking Jesus self testified word and claims.
Fact: they say Jesus is son of man & Charles is Man/son.
Fact: Jesus family said he was crazy
Manson and his family is crazy.
Jesus was a murderer from the begining who promised to not bring peace but to cause opposite through division describing a world inferno. Manson did the same with his race war he planed division chaos and worlds end in the same manner setting it a blaze.
Fact: Jesus asked his followers to disregard their parents for sake of him being their new family as did Manson.
Jesus lived in a shack so did Manson.
Jesus hated the Romans, Manson hsted Roman Polanski. Jesus took mushrooms as did his followers according to found texts, Manson did as well as his followers.
Cult leaderJesus had his apostles Manson had his cult flock called his family. Jesus lived and roamed the desert, so did Manson.

Using Christian logic & standards
Charlie Manson Was Jesus and Jesus was Lucifer cause all the verses on Lucifer were 100% fulfilled by the first fallen Christ.

To disagree is to admit the standard used to call him Moshiach is flawed making him Lucifer anyway.... this is called Check mate...
becsuse every excuse maneuver you make out of this still means I got your king.
My kNight to your king Check Mate!
That's why I use that term, so you'd notice your argument backed you in a corner with 0 excuses and maneuvers left. All you can do is
1)cheat
2)pretend your mom is calling and run away
3) throw the chess board to the ground and have a hissy fit like a child.
So far everyone seems to choose option 3.

 

[shimon]

Hmmmm.....Reminds me of a story.....One day a man is walking through the woods as he is walking he notices a bullseye on a tree and an arrow sticking out of the bullseye perfectly placed he is suprised by such skill as there are no other knicks showing where the archer could have missed the bullseye.... Shaking his head in wonder he continues walking in the forest and comes upon another tree with the same result....Further on again and again he sees this amazing feat of hitting the bullseye over and over.....Finally a little down the path he comes upon a man who has a bow and arrow in his hand and is preparing to shoot his bow.....He quickly runs up to him and congradulates him on his amazing skill and he asks him how is it possible that he became such an expert marksman....The bowman smiles sheepishly and says laughingly it is quite easy first you shoot the arrow into the tree and then you paint the bullseye around it thus hitting a bullseye everytime.... That my friends is how the followers of Jesus managed to put their idol Jesus in all those verses they claim as they pick a verse working backward and place him in where he seems to fit hitting a bullseye everytime....Very deceptive , very clever and very dishonest but it fools the masses and those who are not well versed and are gulliable to believe all they have to say about their idol Jesus and it is complete bull ....... Interesting indeed.for those who have the eyes to see through the bull...

 

[HaShev]

That is such an accurate descript analogy. THANKS!
Best describes placing him in everything after the fact.
To bad they left evidence in Luke 24:44-45 admitting they were gonna "paint the bullseye" after the fact.
But the clearest evidence is always in the way plagiarist not understanding the language or story end up placing the figure in things they shouldn't be.
Like when placing him through all the Harlots of the Bible when making up his fictitious lineage.
Or how they made him Lucifer and nemesis of the God of Israel by calling him the bright morning star.
Or how they make him ride both a mule and horse at the same time (must be a trick rider.)
Or how they mess up the days he was in the tomb just to place him in Jonah's story.
How they mess up by placing him in King Hezekiah accounts.
How they place his birth in Bethlehem to place him in Micah 5 which is about a lineage (Bethlehem Epratah) not a town.
Or as I pointed out placing him in Zech 12:10 about 2 different people thus proving my points they worship the wrong christ. Comical if they hadn't killed over 50 million people over this ignorance.

 

[shimon]

Well bull is bull and that is why they stress the 300 reasons so if you knock off fifty percent of them they can stil claim the other 50 percent as it is truly hard to shovel through all that manure if one is so inclined....

 

[HaShev]

The shovel would have been a more appropriate symbol around their neck then.
Ok this would be a good segway into your dung beetle essay.

 

[shimon]

The scarab is generally associated with old Egypt which indeed made this beetle their most important religious symbol; however, scarabs and other beetles have been worshiped in various ways from Prehistory. This paper will show the Egyptians’ use of the scarab beetles as neither accidental or unique and only the most obvious of many sacred beetle examples throughout history.

Scarabs
Yves Cambefort article is divided into four main sections.
1. Prehistory to Buddhism and Taoism including Shamanism, The Scarab as Creator, and Buddhism and Taoism.
2. Ancient Egypt including Khepri and the pyramids, The scarab and the mummy, The auspicious scarab, and Ptah and Neith.
3. Indo-Europeans including Old Europe, India and Iran.
4. Judeo-Christian culture including Semitic people and the Bible, Christian authors, and Modern Europe.
FROM PREHISTORY TO BUDDHISM AND TAOISM

It is well known that Prehistoric beliefs are related to the beliefs of contemporary “primitive” cultures. More surprisingly, these primitive beliefs have often evolved into more elaborated ones.
Shamanism

Neolithic Buprestids
So-called “pendants” in the shape of beetles are known from the late Paleolithic epoch (10,000 to 20,000 years ago). So much earlier than the Egyptian civilization, it is difficult to know the exact meaning these people attributed to beetle body ornaments. Some insight is gained in an observation of the habits displayed by “primitive” cultures of today. Ethnoentomological studies reveal beetles’ significance due to their importance as a food source and their ability to fly. In primitive and traditional cultures, shamans (medicine men) play very important roles. They are men of power, who are able to address issues in both the terrestrial and celestial worlds. They are able to “fly” in the sky, (in dreams or trances) and descend to subterranean hells where they act as mediators between infernal powers and ordinary men. With these talents held in high esteem, beetles were observed to fly in the sky and dive into the ground. In addition to their palatability, it is plausible to consider the importance of beetle symbolism within shamanic cultures; their vivid colors and spectacular horns aiding in their use as ornaments.
Further clarification may be needed to visualize the links between shamanistic values and the importance of beetles. Fully immersing ourselves in the ways of primitive or traditional cultures reveals a belief that nothing is due to chance or accident. Everything has a “sacred” meaning, as demonstrated by Mircea Eliade. Food, as an essential key to life, inherits the symbolism of immortality, and therefore of the divine; everything that can be eaten receives divine connotation. The French philosopher Claude Lévi-Strauss has shown that there are strong correlations between ornaments and food.
Ornaments used by traditional cultures are not purely for decorative appeal; they possess an auspicious nature believed to increase the bearer’s strength. Therefore, as often as possible, edible objects are used as ornaments, especially if they have additional aesthetic qualities and shamanic symbolism. This is the case for some metallic or horned beetles. Bright, metallic colors evoke images of the sun and luminous sky; horns symbolize rising upward, especially if their bearers can fly. Many beetle species have been and still are used as food in America, Australasia, Asia, and Africa; some were also eaten in Europe. Simultaneously, “primitive” societies have used shining elytrae of Buprestids or Rutelids, as well as “horns” of Lucanids and Dynastids. Western civilization through Art Nouveau jewelry of the 1900’s was richly adorned with beetles and other insects. In Europe and North America, collars, broaches, and ear pendants, used beetles mounted on bronze. To this day, especially in Mexico, living specimens of some beetle species are worn by women as broaches, attached with a small gold or bronze chain.
The Scarab as Creator

Among shamanic societies, there are series of myths relating the creation of world to beetles. In some Indian tribes from the Chaco (South America), a big scarab named Aksak modeled man and woman from clay. Thus, the scarab, who shapes dung into balls, is identified as potter; an identification that we shall find again in Old Egypt (below).
In a more remarkable myth, an aquatic animal plunges down to the bottom of original liquid chaos, managing to grab and bring back to the surface some amount of matter to form the terrestrial world. In some examples of this myth, the primeval diver and maker of the world is a beetle. This is especially the case among pre-Aryan people from India and South-East Asia. The myth probably combines two different sorts of beetles: a Dytiscid, whose name recalls his ability to plunge (from Greek dytiscos “diver”), and a scarab, grabbing and pushing his dung ball (of course, in the primeval waters, there was no dry land to push one’s ball on).
The sky, representing a similar symmetrical medium to the water, has resulted in variant inversions of the creation myths. Among the Sumatran Toba, a big beetle brings a ball of matter from the sky to form the world. This beetle could be a scarab. (Egyptian and Greeks believed scarabs were able to fly while carrying a dung ball.)
Buddhism and Taoism

A possible heritage of shamanism, we know of some buddhist liturgical ornaments adorned with bright beetles. (especially elytra of Buprestids) These type of ornaments existed in continental Asia by the 6th century a.d. Due to their fragility, we do not know older examples, although they may have existed anteriorly, since Egyptian parallels are known: some objects from Tutankhamun’s tomb (14th century B.C.) are adorned with Buprestid elytra. In Asia, the most precious example still in existence is the Tamamushi reliquary in the temple of Horyuji at Nara (Japan). Made for empress Suiko, who was crowned in 592 a.d., it was adorned with 9000 elytra of the Buprestid Chrysochroa fulgidissima.
Taoism is another Asian religion, or rather philosophy. Its goal was to reach immortality, either material (for the body), or spiritual (for the soul). Of course, spiritual immortality was more precious and more difficult to reach. A famous text, “The Secret of the Golden Flower,” takes the sacred scarab as an example of the “work to be done” in order to reach spiritual immortality. Taoism believes in the strengths of various material “pellets” that aids in reaching immortality. The scarab dung ball was identified as one of these pellet substances; the larva and pupa were also used in the Taoist belief:
The scarab rolls his pellet, and life is born in it as an effect of nondispersed work of spiritual concentration. Now, even in manure an embryo can develop and cast his “terrestrial” skins, why would the dwelling of our celestial heart not be able to generate a body too, if we concentrate our spirit on it?
Let us notice that scarab larva and pupa have been observed within the ball; (although in reality they do not develop in the ball while it is being rolled, but later in the nest, when the ball has been fashioned in the shape of a pear): we shall see they have also been observed in Egypt.
ANCIENT EGYPT

Khepri and the pyramids

Scarab-headed god Khepri
The Egyptian civilization was formed from meeting and melding of wandering, cattle-bearing nomads, from the prehistoric green Sahara, with sedentary farmers from the Nile Valley. It is possible to speculate about these peoples’ beliefs, and to suggest that both of them share shamanic ideologies. They would have noticed large bright metallic beetles; Buprestids on the Acacia trees, and a golden-green scarab which made large balls of cattle dung. We know of a number of hard stone pendants dating back from prehistoric Egypt that are often in the shape of Buprestid beetles. Although prehistoric Egypt does not show the use of the scarab beetles, early 1st dynasty (ca. 3000 B.C.) Egyptian culture produced a small alabaster case in the shape of a scarab. According to the British egyptologist Flinders Petrie, the case was designed to be attached to a necklace and might have been made to contain a true beetle.
In Egypt, the primary symbolism associated with scarab was solar. The first scarab worshiped, was probably the bright metallic Kheper aegyptiorum. The decisive symbolism came from the association of the dung ball to the sun: the scarab rolling his dung ball provided an explanation of the sun’s movement in the sky. However, this solution was neither “logical” (where is the scarab in the sky?) nor exclusive: Egyptian culture embraced their old and new beliefs with an equal and non conflicting faith.
The capital of the solar religion was the city of On, which Greeks called Heliopolis (“the City of the Sun”). It was probably at On that Khepri, a scarab god of the sun, appeared in the predynastic epoch. Khepri might have been associated with the brilliant Kheper aegyptiorum, (whose name was coined by André Janssens, in 1940) or to the black Scarabaeus sacer, which was more often figured later. Nowadays, only the latter occurs in this region; the former being a more southern species probably due to significant climactic changes since Egyptian civilization. The name Khepri (or Kheperi, or Khepera) means “The Being, The Extant.” The name Khepri is related to other words of the same root, e.g. kheper “to exist, to come to existence” and khepru “transformations, metamorphoses.” Originally, Khepri represented the sun from sunrise to sunset, although the oldest texts describe him setting in the western horizon at dusk. He quickly lost some importance, and became confined to the associative role with the rising sun, which he maintained throughout the entire Egyptian civilization. He is represented as a man with a scarab topping or replacing his head (right). Khepri lost his association with the “dying” evening sun, to the god Atum, who is often figured with a ram head. For this reason, the ram-headed scarab represents the sun in the double aspects of rising/setting, or birth/death. To Khepri and Atum is often added Re, “The Sun,” who subsumes them.
During the entire Old Kingdom (ca. 2650-2200 B.C.), and to a lesser extent until the end of New Kingdom (ca.1050 B.C.), Khepri retained various titles: the great god of the morning sun; the self-created; the creator of the universe; and the father of the gods. The Great Sphinx, also known as “the great statue of Khepri,” is facing eastward to hail the rising sun. This statue is close to the Gizeh Pyramids and was probably made during the same epoch (4th dynasty, ca. 2575-2465 B.C.). In 1987, I remarked, if the Great Sphinx represents a dung beetle [god], it is to be asked whether the Pyramids represent anything other than a giant dung pat; namely a cattle dung pat, since cattle were very important within Egyptian religion. If we cannot be sure about the Sphinx association with a scarab, we possess a few colossal statues of indisputable scarabs. The term colossal is relative, since the statues barely exceeds one meter in length. The largest one is in the British Museum, probably brought from Alexandria. The most famous (left), is made from red granite and still stands on a two meters high pedestal in its original location at the great temple of Karnak, inspiring tourists take a second look and wish that someday they might return. Maybe this habit is as old as the colossal scarab itself!
The scarab and the mummy

Understanding the daily rebirth of the sun has always been of interest to the Egyptians. What happens to the sun between the moment it sinks into the earth in the western horizon, (where it dies and is buried) and the moment it emerges in the eastern horizon, (where it born again?) Some indications suggest that Egyptian scholars, i.e. priests, got the idea to examine what happened to the beetle’s dung ball when it was buried beneath the ground. They probably made the entomological observation of metamorphoses; predating those of the French entomologist Jean-Henri Fabre by about 5000 years.
However, the conclusions of Egyptian priests were rather different from Fabre’s. They appear to have concluded that the scarab ball was something like the beetle’s egg. Making their eggs from dung, scarabs did not need females; therefore, they were all males. By the way, let us remark here that the Egyptians also believed that vultures were all females (below). The Egyptian understanding was that old male scarabs buried their balls/eggs into the ground. In the ball, the beetle experienced vital changes, passed through various worm-like stages (the larvae), became a motionless, dead-like corpse (the pupa), and ultimately was born anew from the ball. Egyptian priests thought that what happened to the sun in the ground was not essentially different from scarab metamorphoses. At the end of the day, the sun enters into the ground as does the scarab and his ball (let us observe here again that the sun alone can be represented by the scarab and/or his ball; a vision rather hard for contemporary cultures to believe). The sun travels underground from west to east, undergoing a mysterious metamorphoses, or khepru, resulting in regeneration. The next morning, the sun rises from the ground rejuvenated, as the scarab god Khepri.
Now, Egyptian scholars or priests further developed their beliefs. If the humble scarab and the glorious sun can be reborn from the ground, after suffering death and undergoing mysterious transformations, why should not this be possible for human beings? Even though men are not as glorious as the sun, they are not as humble as the scarab. The recipe for rebirth, or resurrection, was then to imitate as closely as possible what happened to the scarab while it entered the ground (for it is more difficult to observe what happens to the sun). Most crucial was the last stage (the pupa) which inspired the invention of the complicated process of mummification. In all probability, the mummy is nothing other that the imitation of scarab pupa; A temporary condition intended to protect the dead body, and the transformations (the khepru) it must endure before its resurrection.
The auspicious scarab

The first hour of the book Amduat
The Egyptians made a distinction between the “old” scarab, who sinks into the ground, and the “young” scarab, who rises up to the sky with, or rather as, the sun. Osiris, king/god of the dead, was identified to the “old” scarab. His son Horus, the falcon god, was identified primarily with the midday sun, whereas Khepri remained associated with the morning sun. However, according to a Pyramid Text inscribed on the inside walls of the royal pyramids in the 5th and 6th dynasties (ca. 2465-2150 B.C.), the two animals were sometimes combined to produce the surprising hybrid of a scarab body, with falcon wings, legs, and tail:
I fly up as a bird and alight as a beetle;
I fly up as a bird and alight as a beetle on the empty throne which is on your bark, O Re!
From this time on, the scarab became the most powerful symbol of the victory life wins over death. The “Funeral Books” of the New Kingdom consecrates this role. An excerpt of the most important of them, the “Book of What is in the Underworld”, or Amduat, is painted on the wall of Tutankhamun’s tomb, behind the pharaoh’s head (above right). It shows the ark of the sun sailing on nocturnal waters. The sun is represented as a beetle, a promise of his next morning rebirth, as well as of the young pharaoh’s resurrection. Later on when the idea appeared on a post-mortem judgement, before Osiris’ tribunal, the scarab had a new role to play.
A large (3-10cm) “heart scarab” (right) was suspended from the mummy’s neck with a gold wire or chain, not only as a token of resurrection, but as an advocate to help the deceased to present his defense before the tribunal. These scarabs were often made with green stone (basalt, schist, jade, etc.), for green was an auspicious color. On their flat basis is inscribed in hieroglyphs a particular chapter from the Book of the Dead which invokes the “heart of [one's] mother”, and this expression probably designates the heart scarab.
The scarab has remained a favorite amulet throughout history, and hundreds of thousands of these tiny figures have been found in the Egyptian soil. Most often, their flat base is engraved with a beneficial inscription, which enhances their auspicious power. The most famous of these formulae is the “praenomen” of pharaoh Thutmosis III: Men Kheper Re, although extremely difficult to translate, is something deciphered “Re stays and becomes, Hidden and Manifested.” The combination of hieroglyphs can also be read “Amun,” name of the Great God of Thebes. In this particular mode of reading, the hieroglyph of the sun was read aten instead of re, and only the first letter was retained: A; the hieroglyph men was read M, and the hieroglyph of the scarab was read neter “divine,” instead of kheper. It became A-M-N, (Amun!) Some of these well carved amulets, served as seals to mark properties. Kings and commoners used such small scarabs alike; The rich had them mounted in gold rings, while the poor simply attached them to a rope. In addition to the small scarab seals, we know of much larger (5-12 cm) scarabs that were made for the kings. The best known are those of Amenophis III (1391-1353 B.C.), which have been issued to commemorate important events of his reign, e.g. his marriage with Queen Tiye.
Ptah and Neith


Heart Scarabs

Commemorative Scarab
Ptah was a god of Memphis, the old capital where the pharaohs were crowned. He was originally a god of the earth: ta was the Egyptian word for “earth.” Ptah was also a divine craftsman. These two characters enabled him to be attributed with the modeling of man and woman from clay, as the scarab was a modeler of dung. The scarab hieroglyph, in addition to kheper and neter, could also be read ta “earth” or “Ptah.” In the Egyptian late period, Ptah was often represented as the older Khepri, wearing on his head the scarab who wrote his name. Hence, the scarab was another representation of Ptah, as was Ptah confused with Osiris- god of the dead during that epoch.
In the same late period, the capital was again settled at Memphis and Ptah regained his ancient preeminence over Amun from Thebes.The goddess of Sais (a city close to Memphis), named Neith, was a very old, half-forgotten deity, who also regained importance and was associated with Ptah. In earliest Egyptian period, her sym-bolic animal was a beetle, probably the Elaterid, Lanelater notodonta. Afterward, this particular beetle was forgotten and confused with the scarab, who was considered male. Therefore, the beetle was no longer an appropriate symbol for a goddess, and was replaced by the vulture, since, for obscure reasons, vultures were all reputed to be female.
At the epoch when Ptah and Neith were associated as the Great Divine Pair, Egyptian priests and scribes enjoyed many verbal and written play-on-words. They remembered that another name of Ptah was Ten (who was in fact another old god of the earth, who was also confused with Phah- late Egyptian beliefs became extremely complicated). The name Ten was important, since it was symmetric of Neith (Net): T-N and N-T. The scribes of this epoch wrote Ptah’s (= Ten’s) name with the hieroglyphs of scarab (T) and of vulture (N), and Neith’s name with the hieroglyphs of vulture (N) plus scarab (T).
At the culmination of the Egyptian civilization (4th century A.D.), a certain Horapollo wrote a treatise on hieroglyphs of which we possess a Greek version. In it, he exposed this sacred written pun. He also described the scarab as “only begotten,” and the Greek word is the same used by John (3:16) referring to Christ (below).
INDO-EUROPEANS

Old Europe

In Minoan Creta, horned “scarabs” crudely modeled in clay were used by peasants, probably in fecundity rites (right). Apart from these models, the scarab’s role is not obvious in archaic and classic Greek civilization. During late Egyptian periods, dwarves were devoted to Ptah (under the name “pataeci”) and many of them wore a scarab on their head. Probably for this reason, the scarab gained the reputation among the Greeks to be the king of Pygmies, although the Pygmies themselves represented the dead. In addition, we can find evidence that scarabs in a broad sense (sacred scarab and stag beetle were more or less confused) were important in the initiation rites of warriors (possibly due to the fact that warriors bring death). As a result, the scarab was consecrated to Zeus, to the same extent as the eagle. In fact, both animals seem interchangeable as favorites of the King of gods. Æsopus fable, “The Eagle and the Scarab,” is a testimony to the secular dispute between the scarab and the Eagle, or rather between their supporters. In this fable, the scarab wins, but historically, the eagle gained victory over the scarab, and remained the emblem of Zeus, carrying his thunder. The fable might also be a reminiscence of the late Egyptian periods, when the scarab and vulture (there are no eagles in Egypt) were united to write the Great Gods’ name T-N and N-T(above).
Meanwhile, the scarab became an object of derision and jokes, the most famous of them being Aristophanes comedy “Peace,” where a peasant flies up to Olympus riding a colossal scarab, whose coprophagous habits are insisted upon. Despite these trivial manners, the scarab retains his divine nature, which enables him to reach Zeus’ throne. Another clue of his importance could be the name “scarab” (greek: kantharos) of Dionysos’ cup, where pure wine is served in order to provide sacred drunkenness. Dionysos seems to be related to Osiris, who was said to have introduced wine in Egypt. As a sacred trance, drunkenness is related to shamanic powers of uniting the sky, the earth, and the underworld. Dionysos also had close relationships with Hephaistos, who was god of the fire. Since wine “burns” or at least heats as fire does, Hephaistos is often represented as being drunk. Hephaistos was confused by the Greeks with the late Egyptian scarab god, Ptah.
In Germany, the property of thunder belonged to the god Thor (or Donar), who was second only to Odhin. The stag-beetle was devoted to Thor, and reputed to bear not only lightning and thunder, but also fire, in the form of embers. Thor was reputed to set fire to thatched houses, hence many names relating to fire and thunder are still frequently used in Germany.
India and Iran

Along with a scarcity of references to the ancient scarab in Europe, it is almost impossible to find such references in Aryan Asia (for shamanic Asia, see above). At best we can refer to the Indian Gandharvas, a lower genii related to the sacred beverage Soma. Gandharvas is close to the Greek word kantharos, (for the scarab and Dionysos’ cup), and Soma might be related to wine. The French mythologist Georges Dumézil has compared the name Gandharvas with those of centaurs, which is also close to kantharos. Centaurs and Gandharvas seem more or less equivalent; minor deities related to sacred drunkenness, and possibly both of shamanic ancestry. In pre-Zoroastrian Iran, Haoma played the role of Indian Soma, and local equivalents of Gandharvas existed under the name Gandarevas.
JUDEO-CHRISTIAN CULTURE

Semitic people and the Bible

Egyptian civilization exerted its influence over the entire Middle East. The Phoenicians were especially receptive to the culture, and adopted the scarab as auspicious amulets; however, along with their other deities, they figured it with four wings, a character never found among true Egyptian scarabs. For western Phoenicians, or Carthaginians, the scarabs were even more important, being found in all the tombs. When Egyptian scarabs were available, they were imported in great numbers to Carthage and its colonies. Later on, scarabs were made on the spot. Some places were famous for this particular industry, e.g. Sardinia. It is probably from Sardinia that the habit to carve amuletic and ornamental scarabs passed to Etruria, and later to Rome, where they lost their symbolic importance.
Coming back to Israel, the word “scarab” does not occur in the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish authors probably did not want to recall the detested enemy through this Egyptian emblematic character. However, in the Greek translation of the Bible (called Septuagint,) the word “beetle” occurs once (Habakkuk 2:11):

For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beetle out of the timber shall answer it.
Christian authors

Habakkuk’s passage would not have been quoted here except for the use that Saint Ambrose of Milan made of it. On five occasions, this Father of the Church alluded to the text and compared Jesus Christ to Habakkuk’s scarab. Other Christian authors (St. Augustine, St. Cyril of Alexandria, etc.) made equivalent or similar comparisons. These are the most obvious testimonies of a possible influence of Egyptian religion on Christianism. They also might have been influenced by (or had influenced on) some late Egyptian beliefs, e.g. reported by Horapollo (above), who described the scarab as “only begotten,” with the same Greek words (monogenes) as used by John 3:16 referring to Christ, and repeated by other Christian authors.
Modern Europe


Stag Beetle
In Germany, where scarab worship, in the form of the stag beetle, has persisted longest, the equation scarab = Christ was widely accepted. The quintessential German artist, Albrecht Dürer, associated the stag beetle with Christ in various paintings, and produced a famous watercolor of the insect. The Jesuit Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680) did not hesitate to recall the identification scarab = Christ, referring both to St. Ambrose and Psalm 22:6:
“But I am a worm, and no man,” verse which has been referred to Christ, and where (as Kircher says), “some read scarab instead of worm.” He went further to combine Christian faith with Alchemy: for him, the scarab was the prima materia of the Great Work. This idea was shared by some alchemists, e.g. Michael Maier (1566-1622), who explained in his writings that the so-called “philosophal stone,” product of the Great Work, was nothing other than Christ, resuscitated from the dead; a promise of resurrection for all human beings. Perhaps the scarabs and other beetles still occasionally used as ornaments (like in the Art Nouveau jewelry referred to above) are ultimate remnants of these old faiths, which can be traced back to the Egyptians and Paleolithic shamans.
It should be noted that the belief in reincarnation and many other mistaken beliefs are based on this inospecious little insect's life cycle...The rolling on the dung is as with most beliefs based on bull...or an another type of excrement.....

 

[HaShev]

Didn't they associate this dung beetle with Jesus?
I'm sure using the Christian standard of similarities and placement we can find at least 300+ similarities between this dung beetle and Jesus Just as they did with that Rooster fulfilling all those Bible verses.
Things like being made into Jewelry, being skewered, having a cra**y job, roaming the desert, coming to & from Egypt, being part of Egyptian mythology, being worshiped,
being made an idol, throwing a lot of dung, placed in mythology, given miraculous powers, both not writing anything, suffering through life but being very popular, being steped on by the Romans, being under the foot of the Arch Malakh etc etc...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

These silly claims to Jesus being Messiah are based on saying he fit 300 prophecy, most of which aren't even messianic or properly read and stated. Some are even comically based on NT post dated script instead of OT.

Using this logic if Charles Manson fit 300 characteristics of Jesus without manipulating the characteristics or cheating like people do in emulating Moshiach then Charles Manson has to be Jesus according to Christian standards of reasoning. And since Charles Manson does fulfill the coming of Jesus in over 300 ways then Jesus came back bringing division & as a murderer as he said he would in Matthew, Thomas, and Peter.
Since Jesus fulfilled over 300 verses on Satan then he must be Satan of the Bible.
Therefore Christianity standards and reasoning suggest Satan was Jesus and he came back as Charles Manson and your arguing this fact would suggest you are admitting Christianity's logic and reasoning on Moshiach is skewed.

Therfore moshiach claims must be forfeited and the standard to decipher MOshiach has to be re-evaluated and rediscovered by fulfillment of legitimate expectations that are Torah based not oral pagan borrowed traditions and self testimony.
Conclusion" Jesus either wasn't messiah like you thought or by your standards he had to be Satan, either way your character becomes the adversary and thief, thus either way he can be concluded as Satan.

FACT: Jesus is depicted like a long haired hippy in sandles.
Charles Manson claimed to be Jesus and was a hippy in sandles, we must take Manson for his word in even standard to Christians taking Jesus self testified word and claims.
Fact: they say Jesus is son of man & Charles is Man/son.
Fact: Jesus family said he was crazy
Manson and his family is crazy.
Jesus was a murderer from the begining who promised to not bring peace but to cause opposite through division describing a world inferno. Manson did the same with his race war he planed division chaos and worlds end in the same manner setting it a blaze.
Fact: Jesus asked his followers to disregard their parents for sake of him being their new family as did Manson.
Jesus lived in a shack so did Manson.
Jesus hated the Romans, Manson hsted Roman Polanski. Jesus took mushrooms as did his followers according to found texts, Manson did as well as his followers.
Cult leaderJesus had his apostles Manson had his cult flock called his family. Jesus lived and roamed the desert, so did Manson.

Using Christian logic & standards
Charlie Manson Was Jesus and Jesus was Lucifer cause all the verses on Lucifer were 100% fulfilled by the first fallen Christ.

To disagree is to admit the standard used to call him Moshiach is flawed making him Lucifer anyway.... this is called Check mate...
becsuse every excuse maneuver you make out of this still means I got your king.
My kNight to your king Check Mate!
That's why I use that term, so you'd notice your argument backed you in a corner with 0 excuses and maneuvers left. All you can do is
1)cheat
2)pretend your mom is calling and run away
3) throw the chess board to the ground and have a hissy fit like a child.
So far everyone seems to choose option 3.

HaShev, Jesus Christ is the Messiah. The Pharisees and Saducees were not able entangle Jesus in his talk. Although they tried repeatedly. They were not able to do it. Today, those who reject Christ as the Messiah are still not able to do it because Jesus Christ's Words stand forever. He is the Lord.

What did Jesus say to the Pharisees and Saducees?

Jesus said unto them, Did ye never read the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore, I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the Pharisees and the Saducees heard his parables they perceived that he spake of them.
Matt: 21:42-46

The Jesus spake to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying,
The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not ye after their works, for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues. And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon earth, for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widow's houses and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive greater damnation.

Woe unto you, scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him two fold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing, but whosoever swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

And Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith, and ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Ye blind guides, which strain a gnat and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisees, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto the sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous. And say, if we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood of the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Verily, I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Matthew 23:1-39

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

HaShev, Jesus Christ is the Messiah. The Pharisees and Saducees were not able entangle Jesus in his talk. Although they tried repeatedly. They were not able to do it. Today, those who reject Christ as the Messiah are still not able to do it because Jesus Christ's Words stand forever. He is the Lord.

What did Jesus say to the Pharisees and Saducees?

Jesus said unto them, Did ye never read the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore, I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the Pharisees and the Saducees heard his parables they perceived that he spake of them.

Well bull is bull and that is why they stress the 300 reasons so if you knock off fifty percent of them they can stil claim the other 50 percent as it is truly hard to shovel through all that manure if one is so inclined....

Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Hebrew prophets. The Torah does not call them "reasons". Had you known the Scriptures and the LORD whom the Scriptures speak of - you would have known it is only through the LORD that salvation can come.

What then can you say of the prophesy of Zechariah? And the LORD said unto me, Cast it into the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Zechariah 12:12,13

And again it is written:
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? See thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day. Then was fullfilled that which was spoken of by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value, and gave them for the potter's field as the Lord appointed me.
Matt. 27:3-10

And in the end, the people shall say:

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of mine friends.
Zechariah 13:6

 

[HaShev]

Jeremiah,
1) those are not Jesus words, those are not even the words of those who's books are named after.
Any Rabbi reading lessons from Torah are not the source, the Torah is. Any plagiarism from the Tanakh is the words of the scribes and teachers forming the word/sayings read. Other stuff plagiarizing Baal's passion play, Zoroaster, Krishna, and speaches Formed out of Q (written by a woman said to be demonic) is not the word of Jesus it's the word of mtthologies and cultures and playrights.
2) You said your christ was Yeshu, but historical Yeshu was not wounded in his hands nor given up to Rome for silver pieces.
That's another later christ.
YOUR mistakes occur when PLACING FALACIOUSLY characters into former texts without knowing context, meaning, or innacuracies in history this placed event will expose, like the following :

3)Zech says the word "was" =past tense.
Zech was prexisting the Jesus mythology, the context in 12 has nothing in it resembling or about the Jesus era, try learning to recognize tenses when you read.
Furthermore using Zech like 12:10 becomes problematic
because it proves my comnentary that you worship the wrong Christ and converge them. Read it in thecTanakh version Zech 12:10 clearly talks about 2 people not one.
"me" who you pierced but you mourn for "him" instead.
None of the events in context of Zech occured in the Jesus era or stories.
4)if you place Jesus into text mentioning pierced then why falaciously avoid the Bible wherecit says the Dragon is pierced? I think it's Isaiah 56 or 59 or something.
Why sudden amnesia avoidance selective recognition unless you admit the process is 100% deception?
5)Lucifer is the first and fallen messiah, just because you flunked that "Identifying Sequences" part of your C.A.T., S.A.T., and IQ tests doesn't change the fact calling Jesus the only and first Messiah who's also your god=Lucifer.

Your arguments are wasted because:
1) you failed to refute former problems that check mated your king. You can't keep playing without your king least you admit you have a cheating, lying, poor sportsmanship, and ego problem.
2) serves no purpose to be condescending, because you aren't gonna convert me (of all people) to your lucifer character.

 

[shimon]

Jeremiah,
1) those are not Jesus words, those are not even the words of those who's books are named after.
Any Rabbi reading lessons from Torah are not the source, the Torah is. Any plagiarism from the Tanakh is the words of the scribes and teachers forming the word/sayings read. Other stuff plagiarizing Baal's passion play, Zoroaster, Krishna, and speaches Formed out of Q (written by a woman said to be demonic) is not the word of Jesus it's the word of mtthologies and cultures and playrights.
2) You said your christ was Yeshu, but historical Yeshu was not wounded in his hands nor given up to Rome for silver pieces.
That's another later christ.
YOUR mistakes occur when PLACING FALACIOUSLY characters into former texts without knowing context, meaning, or innacuracies in history this placed event will expose, like the following :

3)Zech says the word "was" =past tense.
Zech was prexisting the Jesus mythology, the context in 12 has nothing in it resembling or about the Jesus era, try learning to recognize tenses when you read.
Furthermore using Zech like 12:10 becomes problematic
because it proves my comnentary that you worship the wrong Christ and converge them. Read it in thecTanakh version Zech 12:10 clearly talks about 2 people not one.
"me" who you pierced but you mourn for "him" instead.
None of the events in context of Zech occured in the Jesus era or stories.
4)if you place Jesus into text mentioning pierced then why falaciously avoid the Bible wherecit says the Dragon is pierced? I think it's Isaiah 56 or 59 or something.
Why sudden amnesia avoidance selective recognition unless you admit the process is 100% deception?
5)Lucifer is the first and fallen messiah, just because you flunked that "Identifying Sequences" part of your C.A.T., S.A.T., and IQ tests doesn't change the fact calling Jesus the only and first Messiah who's also your god=Lucifer.

Your arguments are wasted because:
1) you failed to refute former problems that check mated your king. You can't keep playing without your king least you admit you have a cheating, lying, poor sportsmanship, and ego problem.
2) serves no purpose to be condescending, because you aren't gonna convert me (of all people) to your lucifer character.

Hmmmmm the dung must be covering up those blinders even tighter around jeremiah s eyes....lol.... Do you also note that not only did christianity borrow heavily from the egyptians in other ways besides the association of the dung beetle with jesus... For example the god neith and ptah were associated with n and t which is the same as the nt or new testament and alot of christians go around saying they are ihs.... In his service but to egyptians they would have recognised that this meant isis, horus and set..... Yup the dung really is tough to see through esp like i said when the binders are on so tight that it cuts off the blood to the brain for thinking and seeing.....

 

[HaShev]

Well they would never notice the influence Egypt had on the Yeshu son of Mary Christ figure of 100bc because they were taught Jesus fled Herod as a baby towards Egypt when in actuality he fled Jannaeus Alexander as a student (teen aged?) towards Egypt to flee the persecution of Pharisee during the revolt against King Jannaeus Alexander. The Widows Mite was a dead give away being a Jannaeus coin not a Herod one.
True Rome plagiarized the baby horus and his mother (seen in some stolen statues falaciously said or thought to be depictions of Mary and Baby Jesus).
But Yeshu himself brought forbidden sorcery and teachings back which got him sentenced by a small portion of the elect.
Teachings like saying their god was that mystical light (luciferous light) between the sun and earth.
These Luciferous teachings can be spotted throughout the NT.

 

[HaShev]

Oh and let's not forget:
Isis is the wife of Baal (who's son is the morning star)and Isis is associated as The same Ishtar (easter) godess who's son was the Morning Star.
Jesus claimed to be that bright morning star-Rev 22:16
son of Baal and Isis hence the statues & iconographs as one in the same mother- baby child.

 

[irosie91]

how did Jannaeus Alexander come about? did he gain power entirely thru the romans or did he have an actual jewish following?

 

[HaShev]

BY his lineage which was tainted in appointment through his father's uncle
John Maccabee that was helenized and most likely the one called the wicked priest in the dead sea scrolls.
Of course Jannaeus himself was called wicked the timeline and events scenerio point to the
Maccabee brothers era and events.