First Hyrbid Solar Thermal Power Plant In Florida!!

[Silhouette]

500 acres to power 11000 homes?

One small molten salt reactor buried underground in a footprint smaller than a football field would power more than twice that many homes.

Yes, but why boil water with technology that if one thing goes wrong will wipe an area this size off the globe for human habitation? The risks are not worth it when we have so many other ways of boiling water. Again, when this plant was powering just those 11,000 homes with natural gas, where was your criticism of it then? Hmmm?

 

[Roguewave]

I question the photograph accompanying the article. What is shown does not resemble a concentrated solar facility, which should have a collection tower. The photo appears to be of some photovoltaic collection facility.

Regardless, the article has the usual negative for making any realistic judgement beyond the puff in the piece. The only real helpful and meaningful information is cost per kilowatt/hour of electricity produced and how that measures up to conventional plants. This plant configuration apparently has been in operation since sometime in 2010 according to the referenced article at the bottom of the page. That the real costs now versus the costs of the old gas only plant existing before could, but were not supplied, can be taken as a tip-off that the thing is not competitive. The usual ratio of competiveness of solar v. conventional is somewhere around 5 to 1 with solar on the bad side. If this configuration beats that significantly, we would be seeing that in this puff piece...prominently.

Give us the bottom line, if you are to be taken seriously. That, and only that, is what the cocaine-sniffers in the board room look at. Me too, plus I want the real cost excluding government subsidies, which we eventually pay.

 

[Old Rocks]

The republicans hate solar because the left supports it. Honestly the only reason they're against it.

Bull, Republicans are for things that make sense.

Does spending $476M to save $178M over 30 years make sense to you?

And that's if the solar panels last for 30 years, which I doubt since nothing lasts that long here in the Florida sun.

Why you certainly are. Like invading nations because of WMD's that don't exist, losing over 4000 lives in the process, and spending 3 trillion dollars in the process for no gain at all, not for us, not for the Iraqi's.

Things that make sense like 40+ useless votes on the ACA. Like shutting down the government for no reason at all.

Lordy, lordy

 

[Silhouette]

Noting the comparison of the exclusion zone at Chernobyl as the size to scale of the area surrounding the Indian Point nuclear power plant in New York..

...Sometimes I tune into that show "Long Island Medium". Ok, to be fair, I've watched it quite a bit as it is a particular hobby/interest of mine, that stuff. Anyway, I'm stunned at how many of the people who she has contacted and many of her friends still alive that have cancer. They are after all, just down stream from the East River where the effluent from Indian Point washes out all over that sound.

There just seems to be an ungoldly amount of cancer per capita on Long Island NY.

The only sane discussion of nuclear power should be how quickly to shut down and switch over to other forms of boiling water, every single nuclear plant on the earth. The discussion should only be one of "what the hell are we going to do with the most dangerous substance known to mankind [plutonium] for the next 240,000 years of its death-causing life?...all that waste.

Otherwise the discussion on nuclear power is over. It just boils water. That's all they do with it and we have many other different ways to boil water as clearly demonstrated at the Martin Solar plant that is the topic of this discussion.

Also geothermal heat resources.

 

[Politico]

Nobody complained about Martin Solar when it was Martin natural gas...lol... Suddenly you have a problem with that power plant's output when it matches the one it always had from gas?

Nuclear? Really? Would you like me to start posting Fukushima updates again? One core meltdown can ruin your whole...240,000 years and your country's food and drinking water supply forever. Children of Chernobyl? Is it time to dig those photos out again? I mean, I can if you want...

Yay now they can still jack everyone on their bills and make more profit

So? People pay what they paid before. You think all of a sudden people will sit up and start complaining that the energy they consume at the same rate they're used to is less harmful to our atmosphere now?

What strange spinning y'all are involved in. Just give up the horse and buggy already. It's a new century and new innovations mean new sources of money. Do they always have to necessarily be destructive to the environment? It's like a cult with you guys; the cult of soot, sludge and destruction. It's the oddest thing...

The whole green scam is all about how people will pay less money for energy. That is BS. It's always been about business. As far as your stupid horse and buggy comment it just shows you have never read any of my posts. I already am using solar. And it's not because of the environment. I don't give a shit about the air some progressive tool will be breathing 100 years from now. I do it to save money. So if you want to label me as part of the Rightyloon cult go ahead. Just read my sig first.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Man. Nutters would piss on a 6 year old's birthday cake if it advanced an agenda.

This is a good thing, nutters. Private industry taking steps toward the future.

 

[Spiderman]

500 acres to power 11000 homes?

One small molten salt reactor buried underground in a footprint smaller than a football field would power more than twice that many homes.

Yes, but why boil water with technology that if one thing goes wrong will wipe an area this size off the globe for human habitation? The risks are not worth it when we have so many other ways of boiling water. Again, when this plant was powering just those 11,000 homes with natural gas, where was your criticism of it then? Hmmm?

You don't know anything about molten salt reactors if you're comparing them to an old breeder style reactor.

Taylor Wilson: My radical plan for small nuclear fission reactors | Video on TED.com

Waste-Annihilating Molten Salt Reactor - Business Insider

 

[aoxomoxoa]

And the first major hurricane here will wipe those solar panels out in one fell swoop.

Already sabotage is "suggested"..lol..

Hey, guess what? Those "panels" aren't panels. They aren't even a thumbnail as expensive to mass produce as solar photovoltaics. They are simply mirrors. Just parabolic mirrors. Formed steel. No circuitry at all except their sun trackers, which are also relative easy to construct.

And your solution when that hurricane wipes out the carbon generator sitting right next to this system? The nuclear power plant? Should we scrap those too? [we absolutely should for nuclear]. Silly. If I had to pick a power plant to revamp after a hurricane or increasingly common freak tornado swarms, it would be a solar thermal plant, hands down. Cheapest by far.

Instead of stewing in sour grapes and obviously schilling for the petroleum industry, why not just invest in a cash cow that solar thermal hybrid plants are and switch over to creating biodiesels. Guess what? Creating biodiesels are much less expensive than mining petroleum and the energy you use to create them can be gotten by...*drum roll*.... solar thermal heaters! Right in the Midwest you can set up a biodiesel plant. Right where the fuels to mix with petrol are made. Train or truck those down to your Texas refinery, sit back and watch the cash flow in.

You aren't going to roll the clock back on the good old boon days of big tuna boat passenger cars and unending military presence in the Middle East.

And, recent earthquakes in the Texas town being fracked, right near the well site are alarming. Particularly because a lateral shear earthquake can shatter a well casing allowing corrosive solvents and deadly chemicals to enter the last reserves of fresh water this nation has underground to use for agriculture. We are overdue for "The Big One" in the New Madrid fault running down the Mississippi River roughly. Because of the nature of the strata in the Midwest, the earthquakes there are felt and experienced at a much wider radius than like they get in California. They are felt for hundreds, sometimes many hundred of miles. That's within fracking areas.

Just stop. Stop it. The bottom line is your bottom line anyway guys. Just figure out new ways to corner the market, lobby Congress [you know the drill] to get your monopolies and sleep at night knowing your whores and cocaine parties are at least paid for by doing something good for the world while you're ripping the chumps blind at the pumps. Fair enough?

I hate to burst your bubble but you might want to read about the experience in Germany with solar and wind power.

I can't post a link yet as I don't have 15 posts under my belt. Watch this space.

 

[aoxomoxoa]

And the first major hurricane here will wipe those solar panels out in one fell swoop.

Already sabotage is "suggested"..lol..

Hey, guess what? Those "panels" aren't panels. They aren't even a thumbnail as expensive to mass produce as solar photovoltaics. They are simply mirrors. Just parabolic mirrors. Formed steel. No circuitry at all except their sun trackers, which are also relative easy to construct.

And your solution when that hurricane wipes out the carbon generator sitting right next to this system? The nuclear power plant? Should we scrap those too? [we absolutely should for nuclear]. Silly. If I had to pick a power plant to revamp after a hurricane or increasingly common freak tornado swarms, it would be a solar thermal plant, hands down. Cheapest by far.

Instead of stewing in sour grapes and obviously schilling for the petroleum industry, why not just invest in a cash cow that solar thermal hybrid plants are and switch over to creating biodiesels. Guess what? Creating biodiesels are much less expensive than mining petroleum and the energy you use to create them can be gotten by...*drum roll*.... solar thermal heaters! Right in the Midwest you can set up a biodiesel plant. Right where the fuels to mix with petrol are made. Train or truck those down to your Texas refinery, sit back and watch the cash flow in.

You aren't going to roll the clock back on the good old boon days of big tuna boat passenger cars and unending military presence in the Middle East.

And, recent earthquakes in the Texas town being fracked, right near the well site are alarming. Particularly because a lateral shear earthquake can shatter a well casing allowing corrosive solvents and deadly chemicals to enter the last reserves of fresh water this nation has underground to use for agriculture. We are overdue for "The Big One" in the New Madrid fault running down the Mississippi River roughly. Because of the nature of the strata in the Midwest, the earthquakes there are felt and experienced at a much wider radius than like they get in California. They are felt for hundreds, sometimes many hundred of miles. That's within fracking areas.

Just stop. Stop it. The bottom line is your bottom line anyway guys. Just figure out new ways to corner the market, lobby Congress [you know the drill] to get your monopolies and sleep at night knowing your whores and cocaine parties are at least paid for by doing something good for the world while you're ripping the chumps blind at the pumps. Fair enough?

I hate to burst your bubble but you might want to read about the experience in Germany with solar and wind power.

I can't post a link yet as I don't have 15 posts under my belt. Watch this space.

German Energy Expert Argues Against Subsidies for Solar Power - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[Jarlaxle]

Fun fact, the exclusion zone around Chernobyl where no person is allowed to go or at least not live is larger than the country of Japan.

are you an idiot or you have no idea about basics in geography?

Japan's territory is 377,923.1 km2

The Exclusion Zone covers an area of approximately 2,600 km2

are you really THAT stupid?

Yes. Yes, she is. Silly is basically a 2-note human spambot. When caught in her lies, she responds by reposting the same images (despite many having been proven bogus) and regurgitating pages and pages of the same copy-pasted BS over and over and over and over.

 

[Jarlaxle]

500 acres to power 11000 homes?

One small molten salt reactor buried underground in a footprint smaller than a football field would power more than twice that many homes.

Yes, but why boil water with technology that if one thing goes wrong will wipe an area this size off the globe for human habitation? The risks are not worth it when we have so many other ways of boiling water. Again, when this plant was powering just those 11,000 homes with natural gas, where was your criticism of it then? Hmmm?

Your complete ignorance about how generation V reactors operate is not news, Silly.

500 acres for 11,000 homes is ridiculously inefficient. Offhand, Millstone (Waterford, CT) is about the same size...yet produces more than 2,000 megawatts. (That is more than TWENTY SIX TIMES the power.) When making 75MW with natural gas, you do not need 500 acres!

 

[Jarlaxle]

500 acres to power 11000 homes?

One small molten salt reactor buried underground in a footprint smaller than a football field would power more than twice that many homes.

Yes, but why boil water with technology that if one thing goes wrong will wipe an area this size off the globe for human habitation? The risks are not worth it when we have so many other ways of boiling water. Again, when this plant was powering just those 11,000 homes with natural gas, where was your criticism of it then? Hmmm?

You don't know anything about molten salt reactors if you're comparing them to an old breeder style reactor.

Taylor Wilson: My radical plan for small nuclear fission reactors | Video on TED.com

Waste-Annihilating Molten Salt Reactor - Business Insider

Silly The Human Spambot is uninterested in FACTS of any sort. She hears the word "reactor" and immediately shrieks "THE SKY IS FALLING!"

 

[ScienceRocks]

I hope in 40 years this entire country is ran by renewables or fusion. There's no need for coal or gases that cause cancer.

 

[Vox]

Fun fact, the exclusion zone around Chernobyl where no person is allowed to go or at least not live is larger than the country of Japan.

are you an idiot or you have no idea about basics in geography?

Japan's territory is 377,923.1 km2

The Exclusion Zone covers an area of approximately 2,600 km2

are you really THAT stupid?

Yes. Yes, she is. Silly is basically a 2-note human spambot. When caught in her lies, she responds by reposting the same images (despite many having been proven bogus) and regurgitating pages and pages of the same copy-pasted BS over and over and over and over.

Thank you for the info as when I first read her post my jaw literally dropped - one can not expect that somebody will expose their own ignorance which invalidates anything they are telling afterwards, so openly.

I happen to know about Chornobyl and it's consequences a lot. To the surprise of all involved the expected disasters are actually lower than predicted.
Including the cleaning of the territory.

Some people never left the exclusion zone. Because they had nowhere to go.

If the nuclear reactor is of a modern type and everything is controlled - nuclear power although not the cheapest IS the cleanest for humanity and Earth.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes...Silly is dishonest enough to compare a Western reactor to Chornobyl...a terrible Soviet-era graphite-core design, with no containment building!

 

[asterism]

So FPL spent $476 M to save $178 M over 30 years.

My ass. Do you know what it means to not burn carbon and sell free energy from the sun for most of the year? It adds up to more than that pal. They'll probably have that plant paid off in five years. Imagine selling donuts and having to pay the overhead to truck in flour, sugar, salt, confections etc., energy for the ovens, the deep fryer, the lights in the display case and selling donuts to make a living. Then one day someone comes in and designs a system for you that costs maybe $10,000 [in relative terms to the outlay for the solar thermal plant] that will save you having to buy all those things in overhead to provide your customers with donuts. That's what this plant is. You sell your donuts at the same price but after that new machine is paid off in a couple of years, five maybe tops, you are selling your wares at an ungodly profit margin.

That's what's happened in Florida. They got a machine that provides free boiling water: which is the same as free energy. It's an embarassingly simple technology long known of but suppressed because boiling water with deadly radiation or polluting carbon was a much more tricky endeavor...and therefore..easier to monopolize..

How will the plant be paid off in 5 years? Show us the math.

 

[Silhouette]

You don't know anything about molten salt reactors if you're comparing them to an old breeder style reactor.

I know that all you're doing with them is boiling water to run turbines.

And, I know that they are much more expensive to permit, run and manage waste for than merely reflecting the sun with parabolic mirrors onto a tube filled with oil that goes to boil water to run turbines.

I know if I was investing in a new or old power company, I'd invest in the one that gets free water boiling/turbine running from the sunshine instead of some ghastly high-overhead $$ public nuisance or unnecessarily complex toxic process.

In short, to quote Idiocracy, "I like money..."

 

[Jarlaxle]

And as expected, just more of the same tired old BS from the same tired old spambot...746th post, same as the first 745.

Were you one of the idiots who invested in Evergreen Solar, Silly?

 

[Silhouette]

And as expected, just more of the same tired old BS from the same tired old spambot...746th post, same as the first 745.

Were you one of the idiots who invested in Evergreen Solar, Silly?

No Jar Jar Binks, I'd only invest in a linear solar concentrating array that concentrates superheated solar radiation on a nearby tube.

I understand that BigOil has urged the engineering of "designed to fail" solar companies. I get it. They're afraid of the competition like Martin Solar that really works and puts them having to compete for real. It's a clever stunt I have to admit, pretending to be green, building a ramshackle failure project that looks "good-ish" on paper; only to go into bankrupcty. That's what any malignant capitalist who has gorged himself at the trough of monopolies would stoop to. It's just not practical anymore.

We know how to boil water with the sun. Sorry? I guess I'd just tell you that common sense should prevail in which company you invest in. The closer the concentrated sun rays are to the tube or vat of fluid they are superheating, the more efficient the system will run. That's why linear arrays work and those ridiculous circular arrays where the vat sits like 100 miles away from the mirrors, that are flat, not convex, are such a pathetic joke. The first time I saw a picture of one of those phasods-to-failure I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Glad you brought that up Jar Jar.

 

[Spiderman]

You don't know anything about molten salt reactors if you're comparing them to an old breeder style reactor.

I know that all you're doing with them is boiling water to run turbines.

And, I know that they are much more expensive to permit, run and manage waste for than merely reflecting the sun with parabolic mirrors onto a tube filled with oil that goes to boil water to run turbines.

I know if I was investing in a new or old power company, I'd invest in the one that gets free water boiling/turbine running from the sunshine instead of some ghastly high-overhead $$ public nuisance or unnecessarily complex toxic process.

In short, to quote Idiocracy, "I like money..."

So you don't know anything about them.

Molten salt reactors actually run on the nuclear waste of our old reactors. Do not need to be refueled for 20 years or more run at more than 50% efficiency and can never ever melt down.

Tell me how many acres of land will it take to power millions of homes with solar?

If 500 acres are needed to power 11000 homes (during the day only) then to power 1.1 million homes (during the day only) you would need 50000 acres.

That's 78 square miles which is roughly the same size as the land area of Madison Wisconsin.

Now tell me how many acres you would need to power 11 million homes (during the day only)