Fire every federal bureaucrat/employee caught undermining the administration.

[Foxfyre]

That's not the question.

The question is. If Trump ordered them to drop a nuke on a hurricane, Would they carry out that order?

Try posting my entire response instead of editing it and you will see I answered the question. Still haven't taken that recommended remedial reading comprehension course yet I see.

 

[Marener]

If you want to use Stephen Friend as that example, how does refusing to do something he believed was illegal justify his firing?

I already said. It’s a phony excuse. There’s clearly nothing illegal about what he was asked to do.

If all you have to do is make a claim that you’re refusing to do something illegal, then anyone can get away with refusing to do basically anything.

 

[postman]

If you want to use Stephen Friend as that example, how does refusing to do something he believed was illegal justify his firing?

Because his actions would have been 100% legal, as judge after judge has ruled. And second it was against the policy of the sitting president.

 

[postman]

Try posting my entire response instead of editing it and you will see I answered the question. Still haven't taken that recommended remedial reading comprehension course yet I see.

No you rambled a series of possible excuses, where they would be putting their judgement ahead of the president.

No different than opposing the president, because they disagreed with his political position.

 

[rightwinger]

That's it? Nothing else?

Anyone involved in insurrection should be fired

 

[Foxfyre]

I already said. It’s a phony excuse. There’s clearly nothing illegal about what he was asked to do.

If all you have to do is make a claim that you’re refusing to do something illegal, then anyone can get away with refusing to do basically anything.

He believed there was. Several legal scholars have agreed with him. Did he or did he not deserve an impartial hearing to determine if he was justified in refusing a direct order?

And moving past Stephen Friend is there anything a federal employee could do to undermine President Trump's authority or his policies/agenda that would justify firing that employee?

 

[Foxfyre]

No you rambled a series of possible excuses, where they would be putting their judgement ahead of the president.

No different than opposing the president, because they disagreed with his political position.

Okay, you can't actually follow the discussion obviously so I'll implement my New Year's resolution and wish you a pleasant afternoon and move on.

 

[Foxfyre]

Anyone involved in insurrection should be fired

I agree. But that's pretty far fetched since we haven't had anything like that since Americans went to war against their British overlords.

So maybe we might focus on something more practical and likely to happen? Like federal employees using their jobs to undermine the LEGITIMATE authority of the President and his policies/agenda?

Is there any incident fitting that category you can think of that would justify a federal employee's firing? Or will you continue to try to derail the thread?

 

[Marener]

He believed there was. Several legal scholars have agreed with him. Did he or did he not deserve an impartial hearing to determine if he was justified in refusing a direct order?

But moving past Stephen Friend is there anything a federal employee could do to undermine President Trump's authority or his policies/agenda that would justify firing that employee?

He can believe whatever he wants. Being delusional doesn’t protect people from the consequences of their actions.

Your question was asked and answered.

Let’s say the president tells the BEA to hold off releasing bad economic data the day before the election. Should they be fired for refusing to do so?

 

[rightwinger]

Is there any incident fitting that category you can think of that would justify a federal employee's firing? Or will you continue to try to derail the thread?

Having worked as a federal employee for 33 years, the incidents I saw people fired for were being arrested, alcoholism and severe financial difficulties

 

[Foxfyre]

Having worked as a federal employee for 33 years, the incidents I saw people fired for were being arrested, alcoholism and severe financial difficulties

None of those things directly relate to a federal employee using his/her job to undermine the President's authority, policies, agenda. Let's try top focus here okay?

 

[Foxfyre]

He can believe whatever he wants. Being delusional doesn’t protect people from the consequences of their actions.

Your question was asked and answered.

Let’s say the president tells the BEA to hold off releasing bad economic data the day before the election. Should they be fired for refusing to do so?

Answer my question first and then I'll answer yours. Fair?

 

[Marener]

Answer my question first and then I'll answer yours. Fair?

I’ve been answering your questions repeatedly and consistently.

You’re making excuses to avoid answering my questions, which is why it’s clear you’re not interested in a dialogue.

 

[Contumacious]

Anyone involved in insurrection should be fired

Insurrection is defined as the act of stealing the November 2020 election ; denying President 's Trump right to a 12th Amendment and 3 USC 15 and 17th Hearing and the act of effectuating a Coup d' Etat.

 

[Foxfyre]

I’ve been answering your questions repeatedly and consistently.

You’re making excuses to avoid answering my questions, which is why it’s clear you’re not interested in a dialogue.

Well since that's your position and you repeatedly insist on changing the subject, I'll wish you a pleasant afternoon and move on. I am very serious about the issue however and I suppose it was too much to find an honest leftist who also thinks federal employees should work for the people instead of a personal political agenda.

 

[Marener]

federal employees should work for the people instead of a political agenda.

Agree entirely, which is why I’ve been consistently saying that employees should refuse to follow blatantly political directives when their roles shouldn’t be political.

This is a topic you simply avoid like the plague.

 

[rightwinger]

None of those things directly relate to a federal employee using his/her job to undermine the President's authority, policies, agenda. Let's try top focus here okay?

Move those goalposts
You asked what can get federal employees fired, I answered

I worked under Presidents of both parties. Carter, Reagan, Bush, Carter, Bush, Obama. All respected our laws and never asked employees to break the law.

Trump is unique

 

[Foxfyre]

Move those goalposts
You asked what can get federal employees fired, I answered

I worked under Presidents of both parties. Carter, Reagan, Bush, Carter, Bush, Obama. All respected our laws and never asked employees to break the law.

Trump is unique

I will agree I didn't repeat (for the twentieth or thirtieth time or whatever) the premise of the OP which was federal employees using their jobs to undermine President and/or his policies/agenda. So I'll give you that one.

I have never been a federal employee, but have a few in my family and among my friends/acquaintances who have been and are and they tell me it happens, most especially in the first Trump administration. Some condone that. Some don't.

And yes Trump is unique since he is the first person in our lifetimes who was not a professional politician elected to be President. And because he wasn't tied to the status quo and thought and acted out of their prescribed box--he wasn't one of their own--he was hated by a much more militarized and radicalized left than what was apparent even under Obama. And, he was bitterly resented by old guard Republicans when he showed them up as the timid, feckless people they had been by doing what they said couldn't be done.

And Trump is the first President to have organized government lawfare put into action to take him down. About 70% of federal employees are on the record as Democrat donors. Probably most of the rest are also registered Democrats which has become an important requisite to get a job in government in DC.

So with a likely mostly hostile workforce in the DC federal government, the deep state is far more likely to have a lot of useful people at their disposal to undermine the LEGITIMATE authority of the President and his policies/agenda.

I don't think that is okay. And those who engage in that should be fired.

Do you agree?

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Please read your Constitution and learn the definition of treason, please!

The guy admitted that he shared information with foreign countries to undermine The United States government. Sounds like treason.

 

[rightwinger]

I will agree I didn't repeat (for the twentieth or thirtieth time or whatever) the premise of the OP which was federal employees using their jobs to undermine President and/or his policies/agenda. So I'll give you that one.

I have never been a federal employee, but have a few in my family and among my friends/acquaintances who have been and are and they tell me it happens, most especially in the first Trump administration. Some condone that. Some don't.

And yes Trump is unique since he is the first person in our lifetimes who was not a professional politician elected to be President. And because he wasn't tied to the status quo and thought and acted out of their prescribed box--he wasn't one of their own--he was hated by a much more militarized and radicalized left than what was apparent even under Obama. And, he was bitterly resented by old guard Republicans when he showed them up as the timid, feckless people they had been by doing what they said couldn't be done.

And Trump is the first President to have organized government lawfare put into action to take him down. About 70% of federal employees are on the record as Democrat donors. Probably most of the rest are also registered Democrats which has become an important requisite to get a job in government in DC.

So with a likely mostly hostile workforce in the DC federal government, the deep state is far more likely to have a lot of useful people at their disposal to undermine the LEGITIMATE authority of the President and his policies/agenda.

I don't think that is okay. And those who engage in that should be fired.

Do you agree?

Trump is unique.
I worked for Presidents from Carter to Obama and never was required to do anything I considered to be unethical or illegal.
I feel I would have had to disobey Trump

For example…

Trump team questioning civil servants at National Security Council about loyalty

A U.S. official says the nonpolitical employees are being asked about their votes, political contributions and social media posts Trump's team considers incriminating.

whyy.org

Trump is demanding to know who federal workers voted for, what political contributions they have made, what they have posted online. Those actions are protected by the Hatch Act.

I would have declined to answer