Finland and Sweden Approve Nato Membership.

[Ringo]

In 1817, the German playwright August Von Kotzebue wrote in an unpublished autobiography:
"No impartial observer will deny that Prussia, like the whole of Germany, owes its liberation to Russia; but the burden of this great boon weighs heavily on Prussian national pride.
It is, unfortunately, an evil, bad habit of most human hearts that they feel some kind of disgust towards a benefactor whom they cannot reward. This disgust, almost hatred, was expressed by the prussians against the russians at every opportunity. When they downplayed the significance of their actions; attributed to themselves the happy successes, the highest motives of the russians, were too willing to be proud of higher education, spoke disparagingly about the character of the russians, called them ignorant and possessed by a morbid passion for robberies.
If a Russian soldier allowed himself the most insignificant excess, then there was no end to rumors and complaints about it, although they patiently endured the heaviest oppression of the French earlier."

Russia sees the same thing now from Eastern European limitrophs.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In 1817, the German playwright August Von Kotzebue wrote in an unpublished autobiography:
"No impartial observer will deny that Prussia, like the whole of Germany, owes its liberation to Russia; but the burden of this great boon weighs heavily on Prussian national pride.
It is, unfortunately, an evil, bad habit of most human hearts that they feel some kind of disgust towards a benefactor whom they cannot reward. This disgust, almost hatred, was expressed by the prussians against the russians at every opportunity. When they downplayed the significance of their actions; attributed to themselves the happy successes, the highest motives of the russians, were too willing to be proud of higher education, spoke disparagingly about the character of the russians, called them ignorant and possessed by a morbid passion for robberies.
If a Russian soldier allowed himself the most insignificant excess, then there was no end to rumors and complaints about it, although they patiently endured the heaviest oppression of the French earlier."

Russia sees the same thing now from Eastern European limitrophs.

Really? You have to go all the way back to 1817 to find someone who liked Russians?

 

[Ringo]

Really? You have to go all the way back to 1817 to find someone who liked Russians?

Did you even read it?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Did you even read it?

Yes, did you?

 

[para bellum]

This is interesting.

There is a town in Alaska's arctic named Kotzebue. It's the furthest north town of any size, about 3,000 people. Alaska was Russian territory until 1867, and Russian place and geographical names are very common. The name in post #21 made me wonder why is there a German name in Alaska? I had to look that up. Seems Kotzebue is named after Otto Von Kotzebue, who led an expedition searching for the northwest passage for Russia in 1918. Kotzebue Sound bears his name, and the town took the name from the Sound.

Otto was the son of August Von Kotzebue, the playwright in the post.

 

[Flopper]

Putin may not want to withdraw from Ukraine, but he can't afford not to. The cost of the war, 20 billion euros a day, and of the sanctions is simply too great for Russia to sustain over a long period of time without destroying Russian civil society.

Ass the Russian economy continues to contract and inflation continues to grow and Russians with marketable skills rush to emigrate to lands with more opportunity, Putin will announce that Russia has accomplished all its goals in Ukraine by completely "denazifying Ukraine and securing the Russian border, and it is no longer necessary for Russian troops to remain in Ukraine. In Russia, where Putin's voice is the only voice the people ever hear, this withdrawal will be celebrated as a great victory.

I don't think the Russian economy is a Putin priority right now. Going home with his tail between his legs is not an option. He has to have an out that allows him to save face. As an ex-CIA Director said, you never want an adversary with his finger on the nuclear button to believe he has no acceptable options.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I don't think the Russian economy is a Putin priority right now. Going home with his tail between his legs is not an option. He has to have an out that allows him to save face. As an ex-CIA Director said, you never want an adversary with his finger on the nuclear button to believe he has no acceptable options.

Putin has no choice but to address the economy regardless of his preferences. Going to war when your economy is tanking is like sitting down to dinner with no food on the table. Russia's military factories are already shutting down because of the sanctions, so how will Russia replace its losses on the battlefield? In a short war, perhaps you can ignore the economy for a while, but not in a long war.

 

[Ringo]

Problem: NATO expansion
Solution: NATO expansion

 

[Ringo]

Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto has signed an application for the country's accession to NATO.
They have thrown away the promise and agreements that they give to the USSR that they would be FOREVER NEUTRAL. This is just another evidence as Lavrov would say "The West is not capable of making and keeping agreements"

 

[gipper]

Problem: NATO expansion
Solution: NATO expansion

It would appear the power elite in the west wants WWIII. Maybe they think making Russia a vassal state to the American Empire, like so many around the world, the empire can live for a few more decades.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It would appear the power elite in the west wants WWIII. Maybe they think making Russia a vassal state to the American Empire, like so many around the world, the empire can live for a few more decades.

Interesting, Russia tries to make Ukraine a vasal state again and because the US, among other countries, tries to help Ukraine to resist, you conclude the US is trying to make Russia a vasal state.

 

[Ringo]

Interesting, Russia tries to make Ukraine a vasal state again and because the US, among other countries, tries to help Ukraine to resist, you conclude the US is trying to make Russia a vasal state.

Ukraine has long been a lackey and vassal of the United States. And in order for it to continue to be so, nationalism and russophobia are encouraged in Ukraine.
I am sure that the kind and democratic USA would easily reconcile with such a situation on its borders, but as you understand, the russians are barbarians, so such a situation is undesirable for them.

 

[AMart]

Really? You have to go all the way back to 1817 to find someone who liked Russians?

American leftists loved Russia/Soviet Union until the media told them muh Russian collusion Hillary lost.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Ukraine has long been a lackey and vassal of the United States. And in order for it to continue to be so, nationalism and russophobia are encouraged in Ukraine.
I am sure that the kind and democratic USA would easily reconcile with such a situation on its borders, but as you understand, the russians are barbarians, so such a situation is undesirable for them.

So what you are saying is that Putin invaded Ukraine because he just didn't like the way the Ukrainians thought about him.

 

[gipper]

Interesting, Russia tries to make Ukraine a vasal state again and because the US, among other countries, tries to help Ukraine to resist, you conclude the US is trying to make Russia a vasal state.

Wow really? Do you know anything about the history of the region?

If you exclusively consume corporate media, I’m not interested in debating you.

 

[Ringo]

So what you are saying is that Putin invaded Ukraine because he just didn't like the way the Ukrainians thought about him.

No. Just one dark day, when there were no prisoners for torture in the dungeons of the Kremlin and all the kittens were killed, Putin looked to the south and saw a happy country to which the noble USA brought the sun of freedom and democracy and his black soul was filled with malice and black envy.
It was from this moment that the aggression of Mordor against Ukraine began.

 

[Ringo]

I can tell you the following about the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO.
The signing of the contract only formalizes the existing situation.

I'm not strong in Finnish politics, but in Sweden it's like this.
In 2016, the Parliament ratified the so-called "host country" Agreement (Värdlandsavtalet) with NATO.
According to the agreement, in case of war or during joint exercises, Sweden allows NATO troops and their military equipment to enter its territory, as well as permits the use of its military facilities.

Sweden has already done something similar for Nazi Germany. Fortunately, the course of that war allowed the country to reduce aid to Germany after 1943, when the turning point occurred.
That did not prevent the Swedes from participating in subversive and espionage actions against the USSR. For example, in 1949, Swedish intelligence helped transfer aid to bandits in the Baltic States.

So Swedish actions against Rossi have a long tradition. And as funny as it is, in "elite" circles, they still remember Poltava (the city near which the swedish army was smashed by the russians in 1709), and they experience imperial phantom pains.
Russophobia is one of the pillars of Swedish politics.
Therefore, in the post-war period, Sweden willingly cooperated with NATO. Contacts with the British special services were particularly close. They supplied intelligence information, conducted joint exercises and provocations, primarily in the Baltic.

These actions did not remain unanswered. For example, in the summer of 1952, the Soviet Air Force consistently shot down a spy DC-3 and a Catalina aircraft sent to search for it.
The Swedes claim that no aircraft entered Soviet airspace. We should also remember that the Soviet Air Force could attack only after full verification and confirmation of targets.
Therefore, the diplomatic scandal soon subsided.

Throughout the subsequent period, cooperation with NATO continued.
Procurement of weapons, with their subsequent refinement to local conditions. Unification of calibers of small arms and artillery weapons. Unification of control and communication systems.
Intelligence sharing, including in real time. Numerous joint exercises. Participation in NATO military and police missions, such as in Afghanistan and Serbian Kosovo.

According to the structure of the armed forces, Sweden has long been no different from any other NATO country. Contacts between the command have been established perfectly, including on a personal level. It got to the point that the command of the fleet allowed itself some liberties in organizing military exercises, where the role of Russian submarines was performed by NATO. The civil authorities have not been notified about this . When the case was uncovered by the journalists of the television industry, there was a big scandal, but it was quickly hushed up. The submarines were declared Russian again.

So joining NATO has been preparing for a long time and systematically. Pumping the population through controlled media (there are no others). The change of a generation of politicians to more obedient ones. Lack of objective data on the external contour of politics. All this has created a favorable background for the current decision.
Interestingly, in 2016, the Swedish Democrats party, which is considered "ultra-right", voted against the treaty.
In 2022, they voted "for" after accusations of ties with Putin. Only the "leftists", former communists, are against it.

As for the people, they are silent. Rather, the people were not asked, and there will be no referendum. As the Prime Minister elegantly put it, "This is a bad idea."
The behavior of the parliament and other responsible persons in this matter actually fall under the article on treason, where this act is defined as "Actions in the interests of external forces".
Because there are really no Swedish interests in joining NATO, there are only the interests of the pro-American ruling elite. But who's going to figure it out now...

 

[toomuchtime_]

No. Just one dark day, when there were no prisoners for torture in the dungeons of the Kremlin and all the kittens were killed, Putin looked to the south and saw a happy country to which the noble USA brought the sun of freedom and democracy and his black soul was filled with malice and black envy.
It was from this moment that the aggression of Mordor against Ukraine began.

To be fair, back in 2005 Putin told us why he would invade Ukraine and it had nothing to do with "Nazis" or NATO:

"Russian President Vladimir Putin told the nation Monday that the collapse of the Soviet empire “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century” and had fostered separatist movements inside Russia.

In his annual state of the nation address to parliament and the country’s top political leaders, Putin said the Soviet collapse also was a tragedy for Russians.


“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.

“The epidemic of collapse has spilled over to Russia itself,” he said, referring to separatist movements such as those in Chechnya."

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

www.nbcnews.com

So what he is saying is that Russia's security is threatened by people in the former soviet states thinking that they were now free to make decisions based on what was best for their own countries rather than on what was best for Russia, and it follows that the only way to make Russia secure again is to recapture the Russian empire that was dissolved in 1990; hence the war in Ukraine.

 

[zaangalewa]

In 1817, the German playwright August Von Kotzebue wrote in an unpublished autobiography:
"No impartial observer will deny that Prussia, like the whole of Germany, owes its liberation to Russia; but the burden of this great boon weighs heavily on Prussian national pride.
It is, unfortunately, an evil, bad habit of most human hearts that they feel some kind of disgust towards a benefactor whom they cannot reward. This disgust, almost hatred, was expressed by the prussians against the russians at every opportunity. When they downplayed the significance of their actions; attributed to themselves the happy successes, the highest motives of the russians, were too willing to be proud of higher education, spoke disparagingly about the character of the russians, called them ignorant and possessed by a morbid passion for robberies.
If a Russian soldier allowed himself the most insignificant excess, then there was no end to rumors and complaints about it, although they patiently endured the heaviest oppression of the French earlier."

Russia sees the same thing now from Eastern European limitrophs.

August von Kotzebue wrote nonsense. The French - not only a winner in many many endless wars under their leading narcissist Napoleon Bonaparte but also a great civilized nation - gave Germany a lot, what the Prussians - a militaristic and barbaric egocentralized nation - not did do. And Russia did not defend Germany - better to say did not defend the Holy Roman empire of German (=united) nation, what the Prussians also not did do. The anti-German Prussians threw even Austria out of Germany.
Russia fought for Russia and Prussia for Prussia. It followed in Germany the so called "German empire" what had not been a German (=united) empire but a Prussian (=totalitarian) empire over Germany. And later leaded the extreme militaristic tradition of the Prussians - after they had destroyed earlier steps into democracy in 1849 and had created a Prussian emperor over Germany in 1870 - to the short 1000 years Nazi-intermezzo. In 1817 - 200 years ago - the General Consul of Russia - August von Kotzebue - had not been able to see this disastrous future. But he lamented like a typical Russian will also lament today: "Everyone is evil to us Russians. Even when we had to conquer the Ukraine only because she did not attack us, so we had not to protect us, the world is against us. Evil world!"

Btw: If someone will find one day a possibility to show us real pictures of the past then I like to see the face of Napoleon Bonaparte in his great triumph to enter Moscow - and to find out that all inhabitants of Moscow had left their capital city and Moscow had been empty.

 

[zaangalewa]

Oh by the way: When Turkey became a member of the NATO it had been a democracy and a western oriented nation in the ideas and traditions of their founder Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Today the Turks suffer racist anti-Kurdish attitudes, their "president" seems to prefer to be a Sultan of the Osman empire instead to be a president of a real existing democracy. He replaced the old Turkish army with a new ¿political, ideological? army - and I heard he also supported Islamists in Syria with weapons. And he sold from the autocrat Putin Russian weapons. I ask myselve now whether this Turkey who had entered the NATO once is still existing today and whether the current Turkey is not a totally other nation. Is it really still a member of the NATO or is it meanwhile only a "troyan horse" nation? In a very serios moment of world history - like now - we should not make mistakes and trust in the wrong people.