Finally: Science Allowed to be Science Again

[jillian]

Whether or not someone takes a safe OTC drug should be a personal choice.... not one interfered with by government because of the religious objections of a group of people:

Kudos.... this issue and what it represents, is yet another major reason the repubs lost the support of the middle.

FDA to Approve Morning After Pill Following Fed. Court Decision
By Carol Forsloff.


Obama is doing what he said he would do to put science back in business. In response to a Federal court decision, his administration is allowing 17-year-olds to obtain the morning after pill without a prescription or parental consent.
George Bush had refused to approve the use of morning after pills for young women, so this new decision has consequences politically for the Obama administration and at the same time fulfilling a promise to overturn the previous administration’s policies on matters of birth control. While some people will react this encourages promiscuity, others believe that this will in effect reduce the risk of teenage pregnancies. That’s particularly true if the teenager has been a victim of date rape, incest or one of these issues of consequence to young women. Still it is controversial.

People are confused about the effect of the morning after pill, however. Some believe it interrupts conception that has already started. Others say it simply prevents it from occurring in the first place, thereby preventing life from initiation and that it is not an abortion pill. These things are being discussed in forums already all over the Internet.

The Obama administration is following through with the promise to bring science back into the decisions about matters involving sex and family planning and follows a recent decision in Federal courts of the case Tummino v. Torti. This is a summary of its findings according to an online journal serving the legal community:


“ Judge Edward Korman held that the FDA had engaged in arbitrary and capricious decisionmaking when it refused to permit a form of emergency contraception, called "Plan B," to be made available over the counter (OTC) to women under 18. The sole question before the FDA involved whether Plan B, available by prescription, would also be made available over the counter. The evidence before Judge Korman has made quite clear that the White House itself interfered with the ordinary science-based processes of the FDA in order to restrict the availability of Plan B for irrational reasons.”


The conclusion made by the courts, the journal states, reveals how religion displaced science for the public good despite the fact that science had established opinion that opposed the Bush Administration. Instead of terminating an early pregnancy, the morning after pill, according to scientific opinion examined by the courts, prevents fertilization from occurring before conception could occur.

This new development will likely be part of the discussion of the changes made since President Obama took office this year and is certain to be part of religious discourse in some circles.

FDA to Approve Morning After Pill Following Fed. Court Decision - Digital Journal: Your News Network

 

[DiamondDave]

Already a thread on this

But.... I would agree if this were only for ADULTS.. .it is a different matter all together when it is a minor... the decision making and responsibility for a minor is in the hands of the parent... anything given, medicine wise and treatment wise, to a minor without the express consent of the parent is flat-out wrong

I may not agree with the premise of the pill.. but legally it is an option for adults... but as stated, when it comes to distribution to minors, that is a whole different ball of wax

 

[jillian]

I appreciate your objection. But if you could step back for a moment... what OTC drugs are people allowed or not allowed to purchase depending on their age? (I'm not talking about safety for use... that's a separte issue).

If, as I believe is the case, the answer is ... not a single one.... then the only thing that would make this particular drug different is some "moral" objection to its intended purpose.

why do you think that has any place in distribution of safe medication?

 

[Jon]

what OTC drugs are people allowed or not allowed to purchase depending on their age? (I'm not talking about safety for use... that's a separte issue).

Pseudophedrine and any other drug used in the manufacturing of crystal meth.

 

[DiamondDave]

I appreciate your objection. But if you could step back for a moment... what OTC drugs are people allowed or not allowed to purchase depending on their age? (I'm not talking about safety for use... that's a separte issue).

If, as I believe is the case, that the answer is ... not a single one.... then the only thing that would make this particular drug different is some "moral" objection.

why do you think that has any place in distribution of safe medication?

1.. you cannot even but a freaking Sudafed without checking, ID, etc....
2.. This is not something like a topical cream for feminine itching or a condom... this is a much deeper issue and a much bigger decision
3... Again, treatment and medical advise given to a minor without parental approval or notification is flat out wrong
4... beer and cigarettes are 'over the counter' too... and we do not trust minors with the decisions about those.. minors also cannot purchase over the counter items such as nicotine patches

Again... as an adult... I will not argue the legality of this... where I draw the line is for minors without parental consent

 

[jillian]

1.. you cannot even but a freaking Sudafed without checking, ID, etc....
2.. This is not something like a topical cream for feminine itching or a condom... this is a much deeper issue and a much bigger decision
3... Again, treatment and medical advise given to a minor without parental approval or notification is flat out wrong
4... beer and cigarettes are 'over the counter' too... and we do not trust minors with the decisions about those.. minors also cannot purchase over the counter items such as nicotine patches

Again... as an adult... I will not argue the legality of this... where I draw the line is for minors without parental consent

1. I'm not sure that's true. I'll look into it.
2. I don't think it's a bigger decision or a deeper issue. I think that's a moral question which is a personal issue and shouldn't be the province of the FDA.
3. I don't want girls allowing themselves to get pregnant because they're afraid to tell their mom or dad what they did the night before. I think for people who object to abortion, this is a much more benign option.
4. if you smoke or drink, you aren't bringing an unwanted child into the world because you made a stupid mistake the night before. But again, I don't think it's province of the FDA (or government) to make that choice. I have very mixed feelings on this issue myself... but ultimately, there isn't any option for a woman who can't get the pill within a certain number of hours and doesn't want to (or can't) tell her parent or guardian what she needs.

 

[DiamondDave]

But it's not a woman.. a woman assumes that the person is an adult.... this is about a minor getting this medical treatment

Just as I do not agree with birth control pills without parental consent... or cosmetic surgery without parental consent... or an abortion without parental consent... or any other medical treatment or consent that is not emergency, life saving in effort... I do not agree with this for minors at all

The fact is that the decisions for the minor are the responsibility for the parent, not for the minor... now if the teen is 18 and an adult, that is different... if the teen is emancipated, that is different...

Even I have been carded for purchase of Sudafed.. and my brother has been carded for buying nicotine patches

This is a larger decision than zit cream or a condom... pregnancy or possible pregnancy is a major medical issue.. it is a major decision in life, not only for the pregnant person but for the possible forming life within that pregnant person... medical decisions are weighed against personal moral issues all the time... doctors will tell you that the moral stances and beliefs of a person are an integral part in many medical decisions.... and with such a fact and the fact that the parent is responsible for the minor, to do such a thing without the input/consent of the parent is not proper...

 

[jillian]

I understand all of that...

but if you don't want the girl to get birth control

and you don't want her to get the morning after pill

and you don't want her to have an abortion

do you really think she's NOT going to have sex?

If the answer was that she wouldn't have sex, I might agree with you.But fact is, she will, and the guy will be gone.... and she'll be stuck in a situation that she is ill-equipped to deal with. It's why the largest percentage of people on welfare are single mothers.

interrupted education
limited assistance with child care
unavailable job training...

= life of poverty = child growing up in poverty = an awful lot of societal problems that we could do without.

Just my feeling on the subject, though I understand your objections. I really do. As a parent, I have my own hesitation. But I know that when my son has sex I would like to know all possible options are available before the government forces him to be a father.

 

[auditor0007]

I appreciate your objection. But if you could step back for a moment... what OTC drugs are people allowed or not allowed to purchase depending on their age? (I'm not talking about safety for use... that's a separte issue).

If, as I believe is the case, that the answer is ... not a single one.... then the only thing that would make this particular drug different is some "moral" objection.

why do you think that has any place in distribution of safe medication?

1.. you cannot even but a freaking Sudafed without checking, ID, etc....
2.. This is not something like a topical cream for feminine itching or a condom... this is a much deeper issue and a much bigger decision
3... Again, treatment and medical advise given to a minor without parental approval or notification is flat out wrong
4... beer and cigarettes are 'over the counter' too... and we do not trust minors with the decisions about those.. minors also cannot purchase over the counter items such as nicotine patches

Again... as an adult... I will not argue the legality of this... where I draw the line is for minors without parental consent

It is interesting the way people think. As a society, we have come to the conclusion that minors are not capable of making well informed decisions when it comes to smoking, so we do not allow minors to purchase cigarettes. As for alcohol, we, as a society have determined that young adults are not capable of making well informed decisions until they are 21. But now, society has determined that a 17 year old is capable of making a well informed decision when it comes to their ability to reproduce?

You would think that as a society we would agree that a minor who has chosen to have sex has already made a bad decision. Now we are going to allow that same person who already made a bad decision to make another difficult decision? Or is it that we believe a minor choosing to have sex is not a bad decision to begin with, therefore choosing to take the morning after pill is not relevant?

 

[jillian]

The problem is you're not going to get them to stop having sex...

until we get something that suppresses hormones for teens.

 

[DiamondDave]

I understand all of that...

but if you don't want the girl to get birth control

and you don't want her to get the morning after pill

and you don't want her to have an abortion

do you really think she's NOT going to have sex?

If the answer was that she wouldn't have sex, I might agree with you.But fact is, she will, and the guy will be gone.... and she'll be stuck in a situation that she is ill-equipped to deal with. It's why the largest percentage of people on welfare are single mothers.

interrupted education
limited assistance with child care
unavailable job training...

= life of poverty = child growing up in poverty = an awful lot of societal problems that we could do without.

Just my feeling on the subject, though I understand your objections. I really do. As a parent, I have my own hesitation. But I know that when my son has sex I would like to know all possible options are available before the government forces him to be a father.

Kids are gonna get a beer underage too.. they're going to speed... they're gonna do lots of things... it does not mean we just make them all legal

And in the case with my girls.. no, they are not going to go on birth control... and no, I will not give the 'ok' for them to have underage sex... but they will be talked to constantly about the situation, the feelings, the pressure, the consequences for actions, etc

Just because a bad decision does get done by a minor does not alleviate the responsibility for that decision and the results of the actions.. but the responsibility does indeed land on the parent of the minor for the well being of that minor

The government is not forcing any child to be a father or mother.. preventing this action of allowing a minor access to the morning after pill is simply keeping the responsibility for the minor where it belongs.. and that is with the responsible parent(s)

 

[Care4all]

it is legal for all children 17 years old and older, to consent to sex...some states have it at 16, maybe even some have 15, but all states have the legal age of at least 17, for consenting to sex....the parent may differ with this, the parent may wish their child to not have sex outside of marriage....but this does not legally stop the 17 year old if they feel like doing it.

Dave

In schools it is different than outside of schools and each school makes their own rules.

A teen or child can buy a bottle of advil at the pharmacy....your neighbor can give your child an aspirin

No one can buy the products that can make crystal meth at the drug store without scrutiny today, not even adults.

but anything else in a drug store, that is not behind the counter, such as prescription drugs and cigarettes, can be purchased by any child....i could give my 10 year old a list of things to run in and get for me and he can run in and buy them.

I am with you on parental consent or parental notification on things like an abortion, BUT ONLY if your child is below the age of sexual consent in your state....and would make the personal rule with my own child to come forward, and speak to me, even if 17!!!!!

But I do not think there is any legal grounds for not permitting a 17 year old, who is legal, regarding their own decision to have sex or not, from having this over the counter drug available to them as it is available to all the other "legal to have sex" adult individuals out there.

You have the responsibility as a parent, to rear your own children in the manner in which you believe to be "right" and talk to them about your concerns with taking "Plan B" in the event of a possible pregnancy taking place....and teach them to not take it, and come to you if they are considering such.

Care

 

[jillian]

What I really believe is that it is our job as parents to know when our kids are sexually active or ready to be sexually active... and to assist them in making smart choices.

Just say no doesn't work for either drugs... or sex. And as a society, we have to be realistic about that. No one is going to have unprotected sex BECAUSE of the availablility of this pill. Kids need to be taught that abstinence is the best option. They have to also be taught responsibility for birth control... but sometimes things happen. And I don't want anyone, even someone we'd consider a child, having a child because they were afraid to go to an adult.

I want it to be like that scene in Summer of 42 where the kid gets gum, mouthwash, cookies, and throws in the condoms (or RU-486 or whatever ... ) under the pile of stuff.

 

[Red Dawn]

Whether or not someone takes a safe OTC drug should be a personal choice.... not one interfered with by government because of the religious objections of a group of people:

Kudos.... this issue and what it represents, is yet another major reason the repubs lost the support of the middle.

FDA to Approve Morning After Pill Following Fed. Court Decision
By Carol Forsloff.


Obama is doing what he said he would do to put science back in business. In response to a Federal court decision, his administration is allowing 17-year-olds to obtain the morning after pill without a prescription or parental consent.

George Bush had refused to approve the use of morning after pills for young women,......

FDA to Approve Morning After Pill Following Fed. Court Decision - Digital Journal: Your News Network

What, you don't prefer living in the Republican medieval dark ages of ignorance and theocracy?



Bravo for science and enlightenment!

 

[Care4all]

my only concern is: taking ru486 repetitively is not good or very unhealthy for the recipient and our youth, and even some adult women, may not heed the warning to wait at least 6 months to a year, before using it again.

 

[DiamondDave]

it is legal for all children 17 years old and older, to consent to sex...some states have it at 16, maybe even some have 15, but all states have the legal age of at least 17, for consenting to sex....the parent may differ with this, the parent may wish their child to not have sex outside of marriage....but this does not legally stop the 17 year old if they feel like doing it.

Dave

In schools it is different than outside of schools and each school makes their own rules.

A teen or child can buy a bottle of advil at the pharmacy....your neighbor can give your child an aspirin

No one can buy the products that can make crystal meth at the drug store without scrutiny today, not even adults.

but anything else in a drug store, that is not behind the counter, such as prescription drugs and cigarettes, can be purchased by any child....i could give my 10 year old a list of things to run in and get for me and he can run in and buy them.

I am with you on parental consent or parental notification on things like an abortion, BUT ONLY if your child is below the age of sexual consent in your state....and would make the personal rule with my own child to come forward, and speak to me, even if 17!!!!!

But I do not think there is any legal grounds for not permitting a 17 year old, who is legal, regarding their own decision to have sex or not, from having this over the counter drug available to them as it is available to all the other "legal to have sex" adult individuals out there.

You have the responsibility as a parent, to rear your own children in the manner in which you believe to be "right" and talk to them about your concerns with taking "Plan B" in the event of a possible pregnancy taking place....and teach them to not take it, and come to you if they are considering such.

Care

Sexual consent is not medical consent... and the decisions for the care of your child does indeed fall on you as the parent... the child is still in your charge... and I am sorry, but I still consider a minor of 17 as a child...

And yes.. before someone else or you asks.. I am against the underage consent legality of a child having sex...

And as stated.. just because a child/minor CAN (thru various means) get a hold of cigs or beers or whatever, does not mean that we should make it legal for them to do so... we know kids are going to do many things and make mistakes.. but this does not take the responsibility away from parents for the decision making for the child under your care

 

[Red Dawn]

Its awesome and hilarious how repukes are always railing against unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortion, but they fight tooth and nail - with every fiber of their being - to keep easy access to contraceptives out of the hands of women.

 

[jillian]

They don't want to look like they condone minors having sex.

I understand that.

Same as I understand that some people feel they are condoning drug use if they legalize pot.

I think, in both cases, we'd be smarter to be realistic about these things.

 

[Tech_Esq]

1.. you cannot even but a freaking Sudafed without checking, ID, etc....
2.. This is not something like a topical cream for feminine itching or a condom... this is a much deeper issue and a much bigger decision
3... Again, treatment and medical advise given to a minor without parental approval or notification is flat out wrong
4... beer and cigarettes are 'over the counter' too... and we do not trust minors with the decisions about those.. minors also cannot purchase over the counter items such as nicotine patches

Again... as an adult... I will not argue the legality of this... where I draw the line is for minors without parental consent

1. I'm not sure that's true. I'll look into it.
2. I don't think it's a bigger decision or a deeper issue. I think that's a moral question which is a personal issue and shouldn't be the province of the FDA.
3. I don't want girls allowing themselves to get pregnant because they're afraid to tell their mom or dad what they did the night before. I think for people who object to abortion, this is a much more benign option.
4. if you smoke or drink, you aren't bringing an unwanted child into the world because you made a stupid mistake the night before. But again, I don't think it's province of the FDA (or government) to make that choice. I have very mixed feelings on this issue myself... but ultimately, there isn't any option for a woman who can't get the pill within a certain number of hours and doesn't want to (or can't) tell her parent or guardian what she needs.

Not to be too cute, but that is an indefensible position. You probably got pregnant because you were drinking and acted irresponsibly.

Just sayin'

 

[Tech_Esq]

The problem is you're not going to get them to stop having sex...

until we get something that suppresses hormones for teens.

Then why wait until they are 17 to sell it over the counter? Basically, if you are old enough to need a tampon/pad, you should be old enough to get the morning after pill.

Or, is there an age below which you would not sell the pill?