Fighting for MY Freedoms?

[Auteur]

...what an absurd position it is to think that handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc. are a guarantee against some paranoid fear of "government". If your strange sort of nightmare actually came true, and the evil liberals came for you in the night, your civilian guns would count for nothing. They are of almost no value against a modern, organized, equipped military force, such as the US and all other modern industrial nations have. You are living out an NRA fantasy, in which the recollections of old cowboy movies come to mind, and the idea of the rugged frontiersman looms large, which is just what is hoped for.

An instructive example is the situation in Nazi-occupied France. After D-Day, when the German army was disorganized and on the run, armed resistance and attack by the Partisan forces was a significant factor in driving the Germans out -- especially in Paris.

But before then, for four long years, the civilian opposition to the invaders was insignificant, and the French Resistance was merely a minor annoyance to the Nazis -- and the Nazi resources were primitive compared to those of the present US military machine.

And it certainly was not the case that the French Resistance lacked arms and organization -- the Allies provided as much of both as they thought practicable. It's just that the Allies were much more realistic than the loony-tune, ignorant "militias" in the perennially unsophisticated USA.
.

A German general in the occupation forces in 1940, when told by a junior officer that the various police forces around the country were still in possession of small arms, exclaimed that he didn't give a damn about the police, or small arms.

There is a huge difference between a bunch of people with some guns and a few rounds of ammo, and an organized military force.

 

[Auteur]

Look, you are getting your information from old western movies. Those with truely bad intent are not going to challenge potential victims to a fair fight on Main Street, giving the opponent a chance to draw first. They are going to kill them, or otherwise do serious damage to get what they want, and choose a time when their victim is not looking, has their back turned, is distracted, is unaware in some critical way.

And furthermore, if all in society become armed, as you seem to advocate, then you can be sure that any potential assailant is also going to be armed, and will have the choice of shooting first. Arming everyone simply ups the anti by providing everyone with lethal force

None of this disproves anything I have said nor does it change the fact that many people who otherwise would have had no or poor chance successfully defend themselves with weapons every day . I am just unable to believe that anyone who has been in the military would not prefer to prefer to be armed than unarmed if involved in combat. Silly idea.

And, once again, no honest person uses the meaningless term "gun deaths".

Look, you were in the infantry, if we can go by your avatar, yes? When you went out in the field, did you study intelligence first? Check your maps? Test fire weapons? Put on helmets and flack vests? Assign arcs of responsibility? Pre-plan movements through suspect areas? Keep in radio contact? Use techniques like fire and movement? And if you did all these,did you then think you had a guarantee of not getting shot? Of course not.

Fast forward to today, and your little old lady with the handgun in her purse. How many of these precautions do you think she will be taking on her trip to the mall? When an event is very rare, we tend to not be ready for it when it comes. That thug that comes up beside your example will probably be unseen, and not only rob her, but also take her gun, to be used in further crimes.

 

[Auteur]

Poor and semi-rural? Its a commuter suburb of Atlanta, is it not?

Only within the last decade. Yes, the "urban sprawl" in Atlanta is spreading, but it is only within the last decade that it has started to include Kennesaw (like only in the last 2 decades has Palmdale been considered a commuter suburb of LA).

Today, Kennesaw maintains a low crime rate, but not remarkably so, compared with other Georgia towns of similar size. It reported 21 violent crimes in 2011, according to the FBI's uniform crime statistics database. That put it well below Douglasville, which recorded 179 violent crimes, but above Milton (14 violent crimes) and Peachtree City (eight violent crimes).

Interesting cities that were picked however.

Milton is a rather rich community, incorporated only 7 years ago, and having an average income roughly double that of Kennesaw.

Peachtree also has an average income that is double that of Kennesaw. In fact, it is quite a "rich area", because of such employers as Panasonic, TDK and NCR. Many people in fact tend to think of the town and it's "Golf Cart Gridlock", not exactly a problem in the ghettos that I am aware of.

Ah yes, and Douglasville. While cities such as Peachtree have above normal marriage rates (70%) and incomes, Douglasville does not. An average income that is 20-25% lower then Kennesaw, considered an attached subburb of Atlanta, and a married couple rate of only 41%, it is not surprising that it has more crime, a lot more crime.

This is why I have never taken the LA Times very seriously, even when I lived there. They are taking statistics from a ghetto, and 2 White Bread Yuppie neighborhoods as comparisons for crime rates, not exactly honest when you look at it with knowledge.

First of all, no one really knows how many actually have guns in this city, as that has not been checked. Further, even the chief of police there stated that conclusions here are difficult to draw.

 

[usmcstinger]

Guys like you would soil themselves at the thought of serving in our Armed Forces.

Honor Duty Country is something you will never understand.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Look, you are getting your information from old western movies. Those with truely bad intent are not going to challenge potential victims to a fair fight on Main Street, giving the opponent a chance to draw first. They are going to kill them, or otherwise do serious damage to get what they want, and choose a time when their victim is not looking, has their back turned, is distracted, is unaware in some critical way.

And furthermore, if all in society become armed, as you seem to advocate, then you can be sure that any potential assailant is also going to be armed, and will have the choice of shooting first. Arming everyone simply ups the anti by providing everyone with lethal force

None of this disproves anything I have said nor does it change the fact that many people who otherwise would have had no or poor chance successfully defend themselves with weapons every day . I am just unable to believe that anyone who has been in the military would not prefer to prefer to be armed than unarmed if involved in combat. Silly idea.

And, once again, no honest person uses the meaningless term "gun deaths".

Look, you were in the infantry, if we can go by your avatar, yes? When you went out in the field, did you study intelligence first? Check your maps? Test fire weapons? Put on helmets and flack vests? Assign arcs of responsibility? Pre-plan movements through suspect areas? Keep in radio contact? Use techniques like fire and movement? And if you did all these,did you then think you had a guarantee of not getting shot? Of course not.

Fast forward to today, and your little old lady with the handgun in her purse. How many of these precautions do you think she will be taking on her trip to the mall? When an event is very rare, we tend to not be ready for it when it comes. That thug that comes up beside your example will probably be unseen, and not only rob her, but also take her gun, to be used in further crimes.

So...because the hypothetical little old lady might not be prepared you would deny her any possibility of being prepared? Were you in military intelligence?
You might note that things don't always go down the way the scumbag (who may well be drunk, stoned, clumsy, and/or stupid) intends. Not all criminals are masterminds.

 

[Mushroom]

First of all, no one really knows how many actually have guns in this city, as that has not been checked. Further, even the chief of police there stated that conclusions here are difficult to draw.

And you are right. However, the fact that it was not known which homeowners had guns and which did not caused a lot of criminals to move on to other areas. The fact that many crimes are far below national averages shows that the "careerist" type criminals simply prefer to do their crimes in areas in which there is less change of finding an armed homeowner.

 

[Auteur]

First of all, no one really knows how many actually have guns in this city, as that has not been checked. Further, even the chief of police there stated that conclusions here are difficult to draw.

And you are right. However, the fact that it was not known which homeowners had guns and which did not caused a lot of criminals to move on to other areas. The fact that many crimes are far below national averages shows that the "careerist" type criminals simply prefer to do their crimes in areas in which there is less change of finding an armed homeowner.

I can assure you mushroom, as someone who has had no small amount of contact with the criminal justice system, and the attempted rehabilitation of criminals, that most do not think, at least very far. They are driven by drugs, or by simplistic ideas of the quick fix to get rich, or to make it through the next day, week, or month. Few read the papers, and fewer still sit in contemplation of the potential rewards and dangers of their enterprises. Most are young men, pumped with testosterone, and the urgings of their fellows, whos disapproval they would be wounded by. Their actions tend to be short sighted, and based on comic book style imaginings of how life is.

 

[sambino510]

Guys like you would soil themselves at the thought of serving in our Armed Forces.

Honor Duty Country is something you will never understand.

I assume this reply was directed at me and my original post. Though I do not take the fact that I would "soil myself" if I was in the military as an insult, my decision to not participate is not out of fear; its out of an unwillingness to kill or commit violent acts. Power to everyone who DOES choose to join the military, I have no problem with them. I just think it's regrettable there's a need for it. Diplomats and military men are each important, and I've simply chosen to be the former, and I don't see any thing wrong with my decision or your decision. No need for insults though, I've got nothing but love and respect for the armed forces.

 

[sambino510]

Save replies for actual intellectual response, not just meaningless one-liners.

Why should he, if the swine knows that he can get your goat?

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Nobodies kicking dicks out of your mouth buddy, relax.

Not sure what you mean by that, but I'm very relaxed. Did you plan on contributing to a discussion or just talk about dicks and talk to me like I'm some kid?

 

[sambino510]

Enjoying your summer vacation little one?

Actually I'm in college and taking summer classes, so I don't have a vacation, but I appreciate your concern. How's your summer? Also, just because I'm young doesn't mean I or my opinion should be belittled due to my age. If a five-year-old could explain to me the inner workings of the global economic system, I wouldn't laugh in his face just because they have a passaphire in their mouth. Save replies for actual intellectual response, not just meaningless one-liners.

I was just wondering, your age and inexperience speaks volumes from the OP, thats all.

Fair enough. I would not argue with the fact I haven't experienced much, and I regret that. I still would not assume that some 80 year old is full of wisdom, or that a 15 year old isn't. That's all I'm saying. Just because I'm 20 doesn't mean I can't do some writing and see how people feel about an important issue.

 

[sambino510]

If a five-year-old could explain to me the inner workings of the global economic system, I wouldn't laugh in his face just because they have a passaphire in their mouth. Save replies for actual intellectual response, not just meaningless one-liners.

That is actually pretty simple. Sell things for more then it costs you to make them. Sell what is needed elsewhere, and buy what you need for the best price possible.

And if you have a supply of something absolutely worthless, try to make it the new fad, so that everybody will be screaming to buy them.

Oh, and don't let your money get to valuable, because then nobody can afford to buy your products. But do not let it be to worthless either, or you risk loosing control of your own businesses.

Well global economics is a pretty extensive topic, but I was just using it as an example to prove a point, not necessarily say how simple or complex it is.

 

[High_Gravity]

Guys like you would soil themselves at the thought of serving in our Armed Forces.

Honor Duty Country is something you will never understand.

I assume this reply was directed at me and my original post. Though I do not take the fact that I would "soil myself" if I was in the military as an insult, my decision to not participate is not out of fear; its out of an unwillingness to kill or commit violent acts. Power to everyone who DOES choose to join the military, I have no problem with them. I just think it's regrettable there's a need for it. Diplomats and military men are each important, and I've simply chosen to be the former, and I don't see any thing wrong with my decision or your decision. No need for insults though, I've got nothing but love and respect for the armed forces.

You would shit your pants.

 

[Survivalist]

Once again I have to take issue with the fact you seem to describe certain ethnic groups as inferior to others. I understand me and you just have different viewpoints, but here's my view on why Africa is a "basket case"; one must look at the history.

Sure, white people have not had a major presence there in quite some time, except for maybe in South Africa where this is still a large Dutch and other European population. In many of their mines, for gold and other gems, it still seems it's a white European man as the boss and poor black laborers as the workers. However, the multi-faceted issues that Africa faces today are still due to its colonial history. The African nations did not draw the borderlines; Europeans did, cutting through racial and cultural divides like butter and pitting all these nations against each other in a continental free-for-all. Centuries of Europeans and Americans stealing both labor and resources from the area have left them under-developed, with little to no infrastructure in most countries. I assure you, I don't blame everything on white people (just for the record, I'm white myself), but we certainly have a lot to answer for and just because we're not there anymore doesn't mean we can't be held accountable. My overall point being, these problems are not due to an inherent savagery in the Black psyche; that's far too simple. The same principle applies to racial issues in the U.S., like gang violence.

But that isn't even the whole reason. Many Pacific Islanders and African tribespeople simply choose to live that rural, village lifestyle. That doesn't mean they're unintelligent or un-able to progress technologically; it's cultural. Just because a white man in the Sierra Nevada mountain range chooses to spend his days hunting deer and not surfing the Web doesn't mean he's psychologically incapable of such complicated thought.

I think it is pointless to keep talking about WHY certain groups of people are the way they are. Just because none of your college professors and none of the books and many other sources you've looked at don't dare cover my points, does not mean that that these talking points can't have the possibility of being true. I may as well try to convince a Bigfoot hunter that Bigfoot is a myth. Continue to read Jared Diamond and believe what he says.

There are pearls of wisdom that you may be able to pick from what I've given you. The crime statistics are facts. You can do the math and figure the odds on how safe an area around you is. You already know this, as you talked about the gang areas nearby in Stockton. Don't worry about the WHYS of crime and focus on the WHATS.

CrimeMapping.com - National Map

Given all your excuses for the ills of Blacks around the world, how much time will it take for any primarily Black nation in Africa before they can "overcome" and be as at least as modern and industrialized as Mexico? They haven't done it 50 years. Will it take 100 years or a thousand years? Has "racism" and the evil colonialists so poisoned the well that this can't be expected to happen?

 

[sambino510]

Once again I have to take issue with the fact you seem to describe certain ethnic groups as inferior to others. I understand me and you just have different viewpoints, but here's my view on why Africa is a "basket case"; one must look at the history.

Sure, white people have not had a major presence there in quite some time, except for maybe in South Africa where this is still a large Dutch and other European population. In many of their mines, for gold and other gems, it still seems it's a white European man as the boss and poor black laborers as the workers. However, the multi-faceted issues that Africa faces today are still due to its colonial history. The African nations did not draw the borderlines; Europeans did, cutting through racial and cultural divides like butter and pitting all these nations against each other in a continental free-for-all. Centuries of Europeans and Americans stealing both labor and resources from the area have left them under-developed, with little to no infrastructure in most countries. I assure you, I don't blame everything on white people (just for the record, I'm white myself), but we certainly have a lot to answer for and just because we're not there anymore doesn't mean we can't be held accountable. My overall point being, these problems are not due to an inherent savagery in the Black psyche; that's far too simple. The same principle applies to racial issues in the U.S., like gang violence.

But that isn't even the whole reason. Many Pacific Islanders and African tribespeople simply choose to live that rural, village lifestyle. That doesn't mean they're unintelligent or un-able to progress technologically; it's cultural. Just because a white man in the Sierra Nevada mountain range chooses to spend his days hunting deer and not surfing the Web doesn't mean he's psychologically incapable of such complicated thought.

I think it is pointless to keep talking about WHY certain groups of people are the way they are. Just because none of your college professors and none of the books and many other sources you've looked at don't dare cover my points, does not mean that that these talking points can't have the possibility of being true. I may as well try to convince a Bigfoot hunter that Bigfoot is a myth. Continue to read Jared Diamond and believe what he says.

There are pearls of wisdom that you may be able to pick from what I've given you. The crime statistics are facts. You can do the math and figure the odds on how safe an area around you is. You already know this, as you talked about the gang areas nearby in Stockton. Don't worry about the WHYS of crime and focus on the WHATS.

CrimeMapping.com - National Map

Given all your excuses for the ills of Blacks around the world, how much time will it take for any primarily Black nation in Africa before they can "overcome" and be as at least as modern and industrialized as Mexico? They haven't done it 50 years. Will it take 100 years or a thousand years? Has "racism" and the evil colonialists so poisoned the well that this can't be expected to happen?

Once again, I do not mean to make excuses for underdevelopment, and I do not blame everything on white colonials or white people today; that's unfair. However, I don't see how the "why" isn't important. In fact, I think that's the biggest problem with both law enforcement and our government in general is that we're reactionary. We are too focused on the fact that people want to kill us and not WHY they want to kill us, and too focused on that people are poor and not WHY they are poor. That's all I'm saying, I didn't once deny your statistics. But if your view has the possibility of being true, so does mine. Or we could both be wrong, who knows?

Also, college doesn't not "dare" do anything, they dare to do many things, especially in the realm of ethnic studies. Belittle professors or books all you want, but if there's a pretty general consensus in academics about something, it's got a fair possibility of being true. Though surely I still take everything with a grain of salt.

I have no idea how long it will take them to develop, maybe certain areas never will, at least not by our standards. I hope they will reach a better place than Mexico has though, because that country is still quite a mess with politicians being assassinated all over the place. That being said I stated before that some countries are not even trying to industrialize and simply live a different way of life. Or, they at least have a large enough population that is still living a primitive lifestyle where it's too conflicting with the urban sectors in order for the country as a whole to advance.

 

[sambino510]

Guys like you would soil themselves at the thought of serving in our Armed Forces.

Honor Duty Country is something you will never understand.

I assume this reply was directed at me and my original post. Though I do not take the fact that I would "soil myself" if I was in the military as an insult, my decision to not participate is not out of fear; its out of an unwillingness to kill or commit violent acts. Power to everyone who DOES choose to join the military, I have no problem with them. I just think it's regrettable there's a need for it. Diplomats and military men are each important, and I've simply chosen to be the former, and I don't see any thing wrong with my decision or your decision. No need for insults though, I've got nothing but love and respect for the armed forces.

You would shit your pants.

You're right, I'm not cut out for the military. It's just not out of fear. I don't know how many times I have to admit that.

 

[High_Gravity]

I assume this reply was directed at me and my original post. Though I do not take the fact that I would "soil myself" if I was in the military as an insult, my decision to not participate is not out of fear; its out of an unwillingness to kill or commit violent acts. Power to everyone who DOES choose to join the military, I have no problem with them. I just think it's regrettable there's a need for it. Diplomats and military men are each important, and I've simply chosen to be the former, and I don't see any thing wrong with my decision or your decision. No need for insults though, I've got nothing but love and respect for the armed forces.

You would shit your pants.

You're right, I'm not cut out for the military. It's just not out of fear. I don't know how many times I have to admit that.

Well at least you admit it.

 

[Unkotare]

[

You're right, I'm not cut out for the military. It's just not out of fear. .

From what you've demonstrated here, it would seem to be out of a lack of character and intelligence.

 

[High_Gravity]

[

You're right, I'm not cut out for the military. It's just not out of fear. .

From what you've demonstrated here, it would seem to be out of a lack of character and intelligence.

And extreme naivety.

 

[numan]

'

And an inability to understand that his interlocutors are unprincipled sufferers of Tourette's Syndrome.

.

 

[sambino510]

[

You're right, I'm not cut out for the military. It's just not out of fear. .

From what you've demonstrated here, it would seem to be out of a lack of character and intelligence.

I think it's unfair to say that anyone who chooses not to pick up a weapon for their country is an idiot or has no character. We could go back and forth forever about this, but we all seem to have a differences and my age has obviously become unnecessarily important. It's a pointless argument so I'll just say one last time that I respect the troops decision to serve and I just choose not to. Simple as that.