Feminism: Just Another Fad

[Saigon]

Oddball is a great example of manhood - if you imagine manhood as a 200 poind drunk in a T-shirt seven sizes too small, wedged into an armchair no bigger than the shirt, and wearing the same pair of once-white underwear he put on for Christmas. A man whose token nod to decoration is a line of drool extending from one nostril to his thickly furred thighs. A man whose forehead contains furrows of such depth and rigidity, the man who is his cousin and father once planted carrots in them.

On his drivers license, his occupation is listed as window licker.

 

[Flopper]

Feminism has so transformed society in the last 40 years that most of you who were not around BEFORE that happened, you cannot even begin to imagine what society was really like.

For the MOST part, the changes have been liberating for ALL of us.

Very true. I watched part of the series called Mad Men. The series was set in 50's and 60's and targeted the relationship of men and women in the business world. I lived through those years and accepted the gender roles as natural and good. In retrospect, I look back and wonder how society could have been so collectively stupid.

I entered college in the late fifties majoring in physics. The one girl in my class was questioned by the dean as to why she selected physics when there were so many other choices more suitable, such as education or nursing. Now this was a straight A student that came in 2nd in the state science fair. She graduated from college and went on to get her Masters and work in research. I salute people like this who had the guts and determination to reject the gender roles to pursue their dream.

 

[Oddball]

Oddball is a great example of manhood - if you imagine manhood as a 200 poind drunk in a T-shirt seven sizes too small, wedged into an armchair no bigger than the shirt, and wearing the same pair of once-white underwear he put on for Christmas. A man whose token nod to decoration is a line of drool extending from one nostril to his thickly furred thighs. A man whose forehead contains furrows of such depth and rigidity, the man who is his cousin and father once planted carrots in them.

On his drivers license, his occupation is listed as window licker.

Right...Just because I point out that there are millions of womanly women, who don't want to be shoved into the bull dyke wannabe box that militant feminists seek to shove them into, that makes me the window licker.

Get the **** over yourself, haughty Eurotrash snob.

 

[Montrovant]

Just thought I'd put this up :

Feminism - New World Encyclopedia

Do you think any definition of feminism here is correct PC? Do you have a different definition you think is correct?

I ask, of course, because there has been some disagreement about whether what you have posted constitutes feminism (at least in entirety).

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just thought I'd put this up :

Feminism - New World Encyclopedia

Do you think any definition of feminism here is correct PC? Do you have a different definition you think is correct?

I ask, of course, because there has been some disagreement about whether what you have posted constitutes feminism (at least in entirety).

Thank you.

Actually, I'm familiar with it.

The OP is very specific as to which incarnation is under discussion.



You might be interested in this, from “The Death of Feminism,” by Phyllis Chesler

1. Academic feminists who received tenure, promotion, and funding, tended to be pro-abortion, pro-pornography (anti-censorship), pro-prostitution (pro-sex workers), pro-surrogacy, and anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist, and anti-American…proponents of simplistic gender-neutrality (women and men are exactly the same) or essentialist: men and women are completely different, and women are better. They are loyal to their careers and their cliques, not to the truth. [In their writing, they] have pretended that brilliance and originality can best be conveyed in a secret, Mandarin language that absolutely no one, including themselves, can possibly understand…and this obfuscation of language has been employed to hide a considerable lack of brilliance and originality and to avoid the consequences of making oneself clear.

2. Feminism today is often a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat Party. Having grown up with a priority of being accepted by the group, fearing being ‘different,’ many women accept the voice of the (mainly Democrat) mainstream feminist movement of America, and deviate not an iota from its orthodoxy. The same party that claims to stand for diversity and tolerance is totally intolerant to ‘difference.’

a. This rigid intolerance as exercised by the movement, unfortunately, has driven away women who choose motherhood over high-powered careers, women who are American patriots, many religious women, women who do not identify themselves primarily in terms of sexual preference, and women who oppose abortion, pornography and prostitution. The outside-the-mainstream feminists hold abolitionist views about pornography, prostitution, trafficking, and sexual slavery; viewing freedom as a universal value; in short, are conservative.

b. Mainstream Western feminism is politically-correct left-dominated liberalism, postcolonial, anti-imperialist feminism, which has denounced America’s vision of freedom and democracy for the women of Moslem countries. One must be reflexively opposed to religion. One must not be opposed to pornography or prostitution, as it offends many gays, and threatens some views of sexual privacy and access. The left claims the usual laundry list of offenses attributable to the right, including : forcing people into gender roles, obstructing the use of alternative energy, increasing the fear of immigrants and aliens, denying adequate health care coverage, promoting a military policy that denies equal rights for sexual minorities.




Or this:

3. Radical Feminists refuse to recognize the accomplishments of conservative women. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Margaret Thatcher, Sarah Palin, none could be recognized or honored. Apparently there are men, women, and people who might otherwise have qualified as women but have chosen to be Republicans instead.
Bork, "Slouching Toward Gomorrah," chapter 11



Now. as far as "feminism in entirety"...you have failed to understand the essence of the OP. It is now being re-defined by pretending that conservative values and lifestyles are feminism. Note 2a above.

The Left can do that, as they control the media.


Don't be mislead.

 

[Grandma]

Your façile-minded conclusion jumping is quite amusing.

A woman as a pilot, engineer, plumber or CEO is still a woman.

Who says such women expect their men to be mere satyrs?

I do. I'm a woman, so the decision is mine to make, not yours. Get it, little man? I'm gonna go pull the engine on the Pontiac and change the rear seal. You can trot your little behind out to the kitchen and make me a sammich and a pot of coffee.

That still doesn't make you a man.

If being a man means being like you, then I've come out ahead in this deal.

 

[Grandma]

Just thought I'd put this up :

Feminism - New World Encyclopedia

Do you think any definition of feminism here is correct PC? Do you have a different definition you think is correct?

I ask, of course, because there has been some disagreement about whether what you have posted constitutes feminism (at least in entirety).

Thank you.

Actually, I'm familiar with it.

The OP is very specific as to which incarnation is under discussion.



You might be interested in this, from “The Death of Feminism,” by Phyllis Chesler

1. Academic feminists who received tenure, promotion, and funding, tended to be pro-abortion, pro-pornography (anti-censorship), pro-prostitution (pro-sex workers), pro-surrogacy, and anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist, and anti-American…proponents of simplistic gender-neutrality (women and men are exactly the same) or essentialist: men and women are completely different, and women are better. They are loyal to their careers and their cliques, not to the truth. [In their writing, they] have pretended that brilliance and originality can best be conveyed in a secret, Mandarin language that absolutely no one, including themselves, can possibly understand…and this obfuscation of language has been employed to hide a considerable lack of brilliance and originality and to avoid the consequences of making oneself clear.

2. Feminism today is often a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat Party. Having grown up with a priority of being accepted by the group, fearing being ‘different,’ many women accept the voice of the (mainly Democrat) mainstream feminist movement of America, and deviate not an iota from its orthodoxy. The same party that claims to stand for diversity and tolerance is totally intolerant to ‘difference.’

a. This rigid intolerance as exercised by the movement, unfortunately, has driven away women who choose motherhood over high-powered careers, women who are American patriots, many religious women, women who do not identify themselves primarily in terms of sexual preference, and women who oppose abortion, pornography and prostitution. The outside-the-mainstream feminists hold abolitionist views about pornography, prostitution, trafficking, and sexual slavery; viewing freedom as a universal value; in short, are conservative.

b. Mainstream Western feminism is politically-correct left-dominated liberalism, postcolonial, anti-imperialist feminism, which has denounced America’s vision of freedom and democracy for the women of Moslem countries. One must be reflexively opposed to religion. One must not be opposed to pornography or prostitution, as it offends many gays, and threatens some views of sexual privacy and access. The left claims the usual laundry list of offenses attributable to the right, including : forcing people into gender roles, obstructing the use of alternative energy, increasing the fear of immigrants and aliens, denying adequate health care coverage, promoting a military policy that denies equal rights for sexual minorities.




Or this:

3. Radical Feminists refuse to recognize the accomplishments of conservative women. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Margaret Thatcher, Sarah Palin, none could be recognized or honored. Apparently there are men, women, and people who might otherwise have qualified as women but have chosen to be Republicans instead.
Bork, "Slouching Toward Gomorrah," chapter 11



Now. as far as "feminism in entirety"...you have failed to understand the essence of the OP. It is now being re-defined by pretending that conservative values and lifestyles are feminism. Note 2a above.

The Left can do that, as they control the media.


Don't be mislead.

So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American.

How completely brainless are you to think that will work?


To suggest American women submit to a weak, service - oriented life rather than using their potential to make great strides in science, politics, education, and the arts is as un-patriotic as it gets.

Why do you want to weaken America? Why do you hate this country?

 

[Oddball]

I do. I'm a woman, so the decision is mine to make, not yours. Get it, little man? I'm gonna go pull the engine on the Pontiac and change the rear seal. You can trot your little behind out to the kitchen and make me a sammich and a pot of coffee.

That still doesn't make you a man.

If being a man means being like you, then I've come out ahead in this deal.

Gee....Biological facts just stick in your craw, don't they?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just thought I'd put this up :

Feminism - New World Encyclopedia

Do you think any definition of feminism here is correct PC? Do you have a different definition you think is correct?

I ask, of course, because there has been some disagreement about whether what you have posted constitutes feminism (at least in entirety).

Thank you.

Actually, I'm familiar with it.

The OP is very specific as to which incarnation is under discussion.



You might be interested in this, from “The Death of Feminism,” by Phyllis Chesler

1. Academic feminists who received tenure, promotion, and funding, tended to be pro-abortion, pro-pornography (anti-censorship), pro-prostitution (pro-sex workers), pro-surrogacy, and anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist, and anti-American…proponents of simplistic gender-neutrality (women and men are exactly the same) or essentialist: men and women are completely different, and women are better. They are loyal to their careers and their cliques, not to the truth. [In their writing, they] have pretended that brilliance and originality can best be conveyed in a secret, Mandarin language that absolutely no one, including themselves, can possibly understand…and this obfuscation of language has been employed to hide a considerable lack of brilliance and originality and to avoid the consequences of making oneself clear.

2. Feminism today is often a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat Party. Having grown up with a priority of being accepted by the group, fearing being ‘different,’ many women accept the voice of the (mainly Democrat) mainstream feminist movement of America, and deviate not an iota from its orthodoxy. The same party that claims to stand for diversity and tolerance is totally intolerant to ‘difference.’

a. This rigid intolerance as exercised by the movement, unfortunately, has driven away women who choose motherhood over high-powered careers, women who are American patriots, many religious women, women who do not identify themselves primarily in terms of sexual preference, and women who oppose abortion, pornography and prostitution. The outside-the-mainstream feminists hold abolitionist views about pornography, prostitution, trafficking, and sexual slavery; viewing freedom as a universal value; in short, are conservative.

b. Mainstream Western feminism is politically-correct left-dominated liberalism, postcolonial, anti-imperialist feminism, which has denounced America’s vision of freedom and democracy for the women of Moslem countries. One must be reflexively opposed to religion. One must not be opposed to pornography or prostitution, as it offends many gays, and threatens some views of sexual privacy and access. The left claims the usual laundry list of offenses attributable to the right, including : forcing people into gender roles, obstructing the use of alternative energy, increasing the fear of immigrants and aliens, denying adequate health care coverage, promoting a military policy that denies equal rights for sexual minorities.




Or this:

3. Radical Feminists refuse to recognize the accomplishments of conservative women. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Margaret Thatcher, Sarah Palin, none could be recognized or honored. Apparently there are men, women, and people who might otherwise have qualified as women but have chosen to be Republicans instead.
Bork, "Slouching Toward Gomorrah," chapter 11



Now. as far as "feminism in entirety"...you have failed to understand the essence of the OP. It is now being re-defined by pretending that conservative values and lifestyles are feminism. Note 2a above.

The Left can do that, as they control the media.


Don't be mislead.

So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American.

How completely brainless are you to think that will work?


To suggest American women submit to a weak, service - oriented life rather than using their potential to make great strides in science, politics, education, and the arts is as un-patriotic as it gets.

Why do you want to weaken America? Why do you hate this country?

"So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American."

There's an outlet that isn't grounded!

Now, you and I both know that you've completely fabricated that premise.


Nothing reveals a loser in an argument more clearly than the need to prevaricate.

So....both the early feminist movement has been tossed aside, as per the OP....and the pretense is that the conservative, traditional lifestyle is really what feminism was about....

...and losers who can't face the reality, that the aims of that movement were erroneous, have to make up charges, as you did.

That's the truth, isn't it.

 

[editec]

Feminism has so transformed society in the last 40 years that most of you who were not around BEFORE that happened, you cannot even begin to imagine what society was really like.

For the MOST part, the changes have been liberating for ALL of us.

Very true. I watched part of the series called Mad Men. The series was set in 50's and 60's and targeted the relationship of men and women in the business world. I lived through those years and accepted the gender roles as natural and good. In retrospect, I look back and wonder how society could have been so collectively stupid.

I entered college in the late fifties majoring in physics. The one girl in my class was questioned by the dean as to why she selected physics when there were so many other choices more suitable, such as education or nursing. Now this was a straight A student that came in 2nd in the state science fair. She graduated from college and went on to get her Masters and work in research. I salute people like this who had the guts and determination to reject the gender roles to pursue their dream.

I confess when I watch Mad Men I cringe in embarrassment when someone said or did something that I remember personally believing myself.

I do not think Feminism is without BLOWBACK, but I sure as hell understand that in total we are a better people for having gone through those dramatic changes.

I definitely DO remember when my mother made less per hour than the men who worked on the same machines doing the same job at Binny and Smith AND at Dixie but, too.

I definitely DO remember when there were GOOD GIRLS and BAD GIRLS and most of us were about the business of trying to get the GOOD ones as girlfriends while at the same time seeking out the BAD girls as playthings.


Society has changed so damned much that unless you were there?

You simply cannot imagine how fucked up it was for ALL OF US.

 

[Flopper]

Feminism has so transformed society in the last 40 years that most of you who were not around BEFORE that happened, you cannot even begin to imagine what society was really like.

For the MOST part, the changes have been liberating for ALL of us.

Very true. I watched part of the series called Mad Men. The series was set in 50's and 60's and targeted the relationship of men and women in the business world. I lived through those years and accepted the gender roles as natural and good. In retrospect, I look back and wonder how society could have been so collectively stupid.

I entered college in the late fifties majoring in physics. The one girl in my class was questioned by the dean as to why she selected physics when there were so many other choices more suitable, such as education or nursing. Now this was a straight A student that came in 2nd in the state science fair. She graduated from college and went on to get her Masters and work in research. I salute people like this who had the guts and determination to reject the gender roles to pursue their dream.

I confess when I watch Mad Men I cringe in embarrassment when someone said or did something that I remember personally believing myself.

I do not think Feminism is without BLOWBACK, but I sure as hell understand that in total we are a better people for having gone through those dramatic changes.

I definitely DO remember when my mother made less per hour than the men who worked on the same machines doing the same job at Binny and Smith AND at Dixie but, too.

I definitely DO remember when there were GOOD GIRLS and BAD GIRLS and most of us were about the business of trying to get the GOOD ones as girlfriends while at the same time seeking out the BAD girls as playthings.


Society has changed so damned much that unless you were there?

You simply cannot imagine how fucked up it was for ALL OF US.

Unfortunately, there are many that see the 50's as the golden age in America. They see life in the 50's as an extension of the Ozzie and Harriet TV show, a time when homosexuality, abortions, mistreatment of blacks, and unfair treatment of women were not subjects for discussion. We ignored our social problems so they didn't exit. Men were expected to be promiscuous and women were expected to be chaste. The bad guys wore blacks hats and good guys wore white hats. Then the 60's hit and America woke up.

 

[Grandma]

Thank you.

Actually, I'm familiar with it.

The OP is very specific as to which incarnation is under discussion.



You might be interested in this, from “The Death of Feminism,” by Phyllis Chesler

1. Academic feminists who received tenure, promotion, and funding, tended to be pro-abortion, pro-pornography (anti-censorship), pro-prostitution (pro-sex workers), pro-surrogacy, and anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist, and anti-American…proponents of simplistic gender-neutrality (women and men are exactly the same) or essentialist: men and women are completely different, and women are better. They are loyal to their careers and their cliques, not to the truth. [In their writing, they] have pretended that brilliance and originality can best be conveyed in a secret, Mandarin language that absolutely no one, including themselves, can possibly understand…and this obfuscation of language has been employed to hide a considerable lack of brilliance and originality and to avoid the consequences of making oneself clear.

2. Feminism today is often a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat Party. Having grown up with a priority of being accepted by the group, fearing being ‘different,’ many women accept the voice of the (mainly Democrat) mainstream feminist movement of America, and deviate not an iota from its orthodoxy. The same party that claims to stand for diversity and tolerance is totally intolerant to ‘difference.’

a. This rigid intolerance as exercised by the movement, unfortunately, has driven away women who choose motherhood over high-powered careers, women who are American patriots, many religious women, women who do not identify themselves primarily in terms of sexual preference, and women who oppose abortion, pornography and prostitution. The outside-the-mainstream feminists hold abolitionist views about pornography, prostitution, trafficking, and sexual slavery; viewing freedom as a universal value; in short, are conservative.

b. Mainstream Western feminism is politically-correct left-dominated liberalism, postcolonial, anti-imperialist feminism, which has denounced America’s vision of freedom and democracy for the women of Moslem countries. One must be reflexively opposed to religion. One must not be opposed to pornography or prostitution, as it offends many gays, and threatens some views of sexual privacy and access. The left claims the usual laundry list of offenses attributable to the right, including : forcing people into gender roles, obstructing the use of alternative energy, increasing the fear of immigrants and aliens, denying adequate health care coverage, promoting a military policy that denies equal rights for sexual minorities.




Or this:

3. Radical Feminists refuse to recognize the accomplishments of conservative women. Jeane Kirkpatrick, Margaret Thatcher, Sarah Palin, none could be recognized or honored. Apparently there are men, women, and people who might otherwise have qualified as women but have chosen to be Republicans instead.
Bork, "Slouching Toward Gomorrah," chapter 11



Now. as far as "feminism in entirety"...you have failed to understand the essence of the OP. It is now being re-defined by pretending that conservative values and lifestyles are feminism. Note 2a above.

The Left can do that, as they control the media.


Don't be mislead.

So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American.

How completely brainless are you to think that will work?


To suggest American women submit to a weak, service - oriented life rather than using their potential to make great strides in science, politics, education, and the arts is as un-patriotic as it gets.

Why do you want to weaken America? Why do you hate this country?

"So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American."

There's an outlet that isn't grounded!

Now, you and I both know that you've completely fabricated that premise.


Nothing reveals a loser in an argument more clearly than the need to prevaricate.

So....both the early feminist movement has been tossed aside, as per the OP....and the pretense is that the conservative, traditional lifestyle is really what feminism was about....

...and losers who can't face the reality, that the aims of that movement were erroneous, have to make up charges, as you did.

That's the truth, isn't it.

Which is worse, fabricating a premise (which I didn't do) or copy-and-pasting ALL premises (which is the only thing you do?)

 

[Oddball]

Unfortunately, there are many that see the 50's as the golden age in America. They see life in the 50's as an extension of the Ozzie and Harriet TV show, a time when homosexuality, abortions, mistreatment of blacks, and unfair treatment of women were not subjects for discussion. We ignored our social problems so they didn't exit. Men were expected to be promiscuous and women were expected to be chaste. The bad guys wore blacks hats and good guys wore white hats. Then the 60's hit and America woke up.

Excellent...Let the snobbery flow...

 

[Oddball]

Which is worse, fabricating a premise (which I didn't do) or copy-and-pasting ALL premises (which is the only thing you do?)

Dunno...Why not ask that snobbish buttpipe Flopper to figure out that one?

 

[Saigon]

Unfortunately, there are many that see the 50's as the golden age in America. They see life in the 50's as an extension of the Ozzie and Harriet TV show, a time when homosexuality, abortions, mistreatment of blacks, and unfair treatment of women were not subjects for discussion. We ignored our social problems so they didn't exit. Men were expected to be promiscuous and women were expected to be chaste. The bad guys wore blacks hats and good guys wore white hats. Then the 60's hit and America woke up.

Exactly that - people want to go back to a time when there were good guys and bag guys - and everyone who was not a white American Christian man was a bad guy.

Living in a world where it is no longer fashionable to hate blacks, gays or vegetarians is a real burden for some of our posters.

 

[Montrovant]

Unfortunately, there are many that see the 50's as the golden age in America. They see life in the 50's as an extension of the Ozzie and Harriet TV show, a time when homosexuality, abortions, mistreatment of blacks, and unfair treatment of women were not subjects for discussion. We ignored our social problems so they didn't exit. Men were expected to be promiscuous and women were expected to be chaste. The bad guys wore blacks hats and good guys wore white hats. Then the 60's hit and America woke up.

Exactly that - people want to go back to a time when there were good guys and bag guys - and everyone who was not a white American Christian man was a bad guy.

Living in a world where it is no longer fashionable to hate blacks, gays or vegetarians is a real burden for some of our posters.

Wait, when did hating vegetarians go out of style?

 

[Saigon]

Montro -

You can still laugh at vegans, but laughing at vegetarians hasn't been quite as funny since we found out what US cows are fed!

 

[Unkotare]

Montro -

You can still laugh at vegans, but laughing at vegetarians hasn't been quite as funny since we found out what US cows are fed!

No, it's still pretty funny.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American.

How completely brainless are you to think that will work?


To suggest American women submit to a weak, service - oriented life rather than using their potential to make great strides in science, politics, education, and the arts is as un-patriotic as it gets.

Why do you want to weaken America? Why do you hate this country?

"So, you're trying to convince everyone that women who aren't satisfied with being barefoot and pregnant are anti-American."

There's an outlet that isn't grounded!

Now, you and I both know that you've completely fabricated that premise.


Nothing reveals a loser in an argument more clearly than the need to prevaricate.

So....both the early feminist movement has been tossed aside, as per the OP....and the pretense is that the conservative, traditional lifestyle is really what feminism was about....

...and losers who can't face the reality, that the aims of that movement were erroneous, have to make up charges, as you did.

That's the truth, isn't it.

Which is worse, fabricating a premise (which I didn't do) or copy-and-pasting ALL premises (which is the only thing you do?)

Whatever my methods are, they certainly skewered your view, didn't they.


When I said 'fabricating a premise,' I was trying to be kind. You were lying.
And...that is worse.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Unfortunately, there are many that see the 50's as the golden age in America. They see life in the 50's as an extension of the Ozzie and Harriet TV show, a time when homosexuality, abortions, mistreatment of blacks, and unfair treatment of women were not subjects for discussion. We ignored our social problems so they didn't exit. Men were expected to be promiscuous and women were expected to be chaste. The bad guys wore blacks hats and good guys wore white hats. Then the 60's hit and America woke up.

Exactly that - people want to go back to a time when there were good guys and bag guys - and everyone who was not a white American Christian man was a bad guy.

Living in a world where it is no longer fashionable to hate blacks, gays or vegetarians is a real burden for some of our posters.

Can you name a few of the folks who " want to go back to a time when there were good guys and bag guys - and everyone who was not a white American Christian man was a bad guy"?

Can you?

Or is it a fairy tale that you simpletons swallow whole?

Seems that Orwell was referring to you when he wrote of folks who spend their time hissing at Emmanuel Goldstein.