Feminism and Governor Palin

[Coloradomtnman]

After reading a few threads recently regarding Gov. Palin, and seeing how conservatives defend her by cherry picking and hijacking feminism and using these faux-feministic arguments to damn liberals and the "liberal media" as hypocrites for not defending Gov. Palin. It makes me think that perhaps some people don't understand what Feminism really is.

Here is the Stanford Encyclopedia's take on Feminism: Topics in Feminism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Make sure to read that before posting any reactionary responses. As you can see feminism is not a simple, single approach movement.

How would a liberal define feminism? Well, that would differ among who one asked, but I think the majority of liberals would define it broadly as: equality between men and women.

How would a conservative define feminism?

First I would like to know if or why conservatives feel Governor Palin is a feminist icon?

Has Gov. Palin taken any feminist stances in politics or society?

Is it because she was nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate? If that is so, why? Just because a woman is nominated as a VP candidate does not necessarily make her a feminist.

Is it because she is a state governor? If that is so, why and how?

What else makes her a feminist advocate?

Why do you believe the media attacks on Gov. Palin sexist? Have they attacked her gender, her motherhood, or her feminist stances on politics or society? Or is it that any attack against Gov. Palin are regarded as sexist?

How do you reconcile conservative traditionalism and feminism? A woman, traditionally, is supposed to maintain the household, bear children, and support her husband. Having the choice to have an abortion is regarded as an important right for a woman, so taking a position against a woman's right to choose would be arguing against a woman's right to her body and a woman's right to her privacy.

I would argue that Governor Palin is not a feminist and that the media attacks weren't sexist but directed at Governor Palin's obvious and significant superficiality and lack of political intelligence. I would support that by arguing that Governor Palin's winking and catch phrases were her attempt to hide her political ignorance and inexperience (not that Obama was much more experienced, but that was one of her most important campaign platform points). I think that one of the major contributing factors that she was chosen as McCain's VP candidate because she is a woman and the McCain campaign needed an exciting choice to stir up the Republican base. I also think her Christian conservatism was a major factor in her choice, and Christian conservatism is pro-life, and pro-life isn't a feminist ethic. I think the Right used her gender to put a twist to the media attacks so that the media could be labeled sexist and framed because of that as hypocritical (sense the Right believes there is a liberal slant to the media already).

Personally, I think Governor Palin is shallow, unintelligent, and more than a little undeserving of the media hype and far-right Republican iconism.

What do you have to say?

 

[Annie]

After reading a few threads recently regarding Gov. Palin, and seeing how conservatives defend her by cherry picking and hijacking feminism and using these faux-feministic arguments to damn liberals and the "liberal media" as hypocrites for not defending Gov. Palin. It makes me think that perhaps some people don't understand what Feminism really is.

Here is the Stanford Encyclopedia's take on Feminism: Topics in Feminism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Make sure to read that before posting any reactionary responses. As you can see feminism is not a simple, single approach movement.

How would a liberal define feminism? Well, that would differ among who one asked, but I think the majority of liberals would define it broadly as: equality between men and women.

How would a conservative define feminism?

First I would like to know if or why conservatives feel Governor Palin is a feminist icon?

Has Gov. Palin taken any feminist stances in politics or society?

Is it because she was nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate? If that is so, why? Just because a woman is nominated as a VP candidate does not necessarily make her a feminist.

Is it because she is a state governor? If that is so, why and how?

What else makes her a feminist advocate?

Why do you believe the media attacks on Gov. Palin sexist? Have they attacked her gender, her motherhood, or her feminist stances on politics or society? Or is it that any attack against Gov. Palin are regarded as sexist?

How do you reconcile conservative traditionalism and feminism? A woman, traditionally, is supposed to maintain the household, bear children, and support her husband. Having the choice to have an abortion is regarded as an important right for a woman, so taking a position against a woman's right to choose would be arguing against a woman's right to her body and a woman's right to her privacy.

I would argue that Governor Palin is not a feminist and that the media attacks weren't sexist but directed at Governor Palin's obvious and significant superficiality and lack of political intelligence. I would support that by arguing that Governor Palin's winking and catch phrases were her attempt to hide her political ignorance and inexperience (not that Obama was much more experienced, but that was one of her most important campaign platform points). I think that one of the major contributing factors that she was chosen as McCain's VP candidate because she is a woman and the McCain campaign needed an exciting choice to stir up the Republican base. I also think her Christian conservatism was a major factor in her choice, and Christian conservatism is pro-life, and pro-life isn't a feminist ethic. I think the Right used her gender to put a twist to the media attacks so that the media could be labeled sexist and framed because of that as hypocritical (sense the Right believes there is a liberal slant to the media already).

Personally, I think Governor Palin is shallow, unintelligent, and more than a little undeserving of the media hype and far-right Republican iconism.

What do you have to say?

Which puts you in the category of misogynist. See you do not like strong women, especially when they disagree with you political pov.

 

[Sinatra]

After reading a few threads recently regarding Gov. Palin, and seeing how conservatives defend her by cherry picking and hijacking feminism and using these faux-feministic arguments to damn liberals and the "liberal media" as hypocrites for not defending Gov. Palin. It makes me think that perhaps some people don't understand what Feminism really is.

Here is the Stanford Encyclopedia's take on Feminism: Topics in Feminism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Make sure to read that before posting any reactionary responses. As you can see feminism is not a simple, single approach movement.

How would a liberal define feminism? Well, that would differ among who one asked, but I think the majority of liberals would define it broadly as: equality between men and women.

How would a conservative define feminism?

First I would like to know if or why conservatives feel Governor Palin is a feminist icon?

Has Gov. Palin taken any feminist stances in politics or society?

Is it because she was nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate? If that is so, why? Just because a woman is nominated as a VP candidate does not necessarily make her a feminist.

Is it because she is a state governor? If that is so, why and how?

What else makes her a feminist advocate?

Why do you believe the media attacks on Gov. Palin sexist? Have they attacked her gender, her motherhood, or her feminist stances on politics or society? Or is it that any attack against Gov. Palin are regarded as sexist?

How do you reconcile conservative traditionalism and feminism? A woman, traditionally, is supposed to maintain the household, bear children, and support her husband. Having the choice to have an abortion is regarded as an important right for a woman, so taking a position against a woman's right to choose would be arguing against a woman's right to her body and a woman's right to her privacy.

I would argue that Governor Palin is not a feminist and that the media attacks weren't sexist but directed at Governor Palin's obvious and significant superficiality and lack of political intelligence. I would support that by arguing that Governor Palin's winking and catch phrases were her attempt to hide her political ignorance and inexperience (not that Obama was much more experienced, but that was one of her most important campaign platform points). I think that one of the major contributing factors that she was chosen as McCain's VP candidate because she is a woman and the McCain campaign needed an exciting choice to stir up the Republican base. I also think her Christian conservatism was a major factor in her choice, and Christian conservatism is pro-life, and pro-life isn't a feminist ethic. I think the Right used her gender to put a twist to the media attacks so that the media could be labeled sexist and framed because of that as hypocritical (sense the Right believes there is a liberal slant to the media already).

Personally, I think Governor Palin is shallow, unintelligent, and more than a little undeserving of the media hype and far-right Republican iconism.

What do you have to say?

Which puts you in the category of misogynist. See you do not like strong women, especially when they disagree with you political pov.

Bingo.

He comes along under the guise of being open minded while dripping with pre-determined notions of an overtly biased nature.

His posts repeatedly fail to exceed basic boredom...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Which puts you in the category of misogynist. See you do not like strong women, especially when they disagree with you political pov.

Good argument. You must really know me well. You really let me have it with that one!

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Bingo.

He comes along under the guise of being open minded while dripping with pre-determined notions of an overtly biased nature.

His posts repeatedly fail to exceed basic boredom...

So you've somehow obtained total objectivity, huh? Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

p.s. I liked McCain.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Which puts you in the category of misogynist. See you do not like strong women, especially when they disagree with you political pov.

Good argument. You must really know me well. You really let me have it with that one!

YEAH; and lemme judge you, too.

you have penis envy! your avatar told me that!

 

[Nik]

After reading a few threads recently regarding Gov. Palin, and seeing how conservatives defend her by cherry picking and hijacking feminism and using these faux-feministic arguments to damn liberals and the "liberal media" as hypocrites for not defending Gov. Palin. It makes me think that perhaps some people don't understand what Feminism really is.

Here is the Stanford Encyclopedia's take on Feminism: Topics in Feminism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Make sure to read that before posting any reactionary responses. As you can see feminism is not a simple, single approach movement.

How would a liberal define feminism? Well, that would differ among who one asked, but I think the majority of liberals would define it broadly as: equality between men and women.

How would a conservative define feminism?

First I would like to know if or why conservatives feel Governor Palin is a feminist icon?

Has Gov. Palin taken any feminist stances in politics or society?

Is it because she was nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate? If that is so, why? Just because a woman is nominated as a VP candidate does not necessarily make her a feminist.

Is it because she is a state governor? If that is so, why and how?

What else makes her a feminist advocate?

Why do you believe the media attacks on Gov. Palin sexist? Have they attacked her gender, her motherhood, or her feminist stances on politics or society? Or is it that any attack against Gov. Palin are regarded as sexist?

How do you reconcile conservative traditionalism and feminism? A woman, traditionally, is supposed to maintain the household, bear children, and support her husband. Having the choice to have an abortion is regarded as an important right for a woman, so taking a position against a woman's right to choose would be arguing against a woman's right to her body and a woman's right to her privacy.

I would argue that Governor Palin is not a feminist and that the media attacks weren't sexist but directed at Governor Palin's obvious and significant superficiality and lack of political intelligence. I would support that by arguing that Governor Palin's winking and catch phrases were her attempt to hide her political ignorance and inexperience (not that Obama was much more experienced, but that was one of her most important campaign platform points). I think that one of the major contributing factors that she was chosen as McCain's VP candidate because she is a woman and the McCain campaign needed an exciting choice to stir up the Republican base. I also think her Christian conservatism was a major factor in her choice, and Christian conservatism is pro-life, and pro-life isn't a feminist ethic. I think the Right used her gender to put a twist to the media attacks so that the media could be labeled sexist and framed because of that as hypocritical (sense the Right believes there is a liberal slant to the media already).

Personally, I think Governor Palin is shallow, unintelligent, and more than a little undeserving of the media hype and far-right Republican iconism.

What do you have to say?

Which puts you in the category of misogynist. See you do not like strong women, especially when they disagree with you political pov.

What exactly that he said was misoygnistic?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

YEAH; and lemme judge you, too.

you have penis envy! your avatar told me that!

Wow, that's right! Are you like psychic or something?

 

[Tech_Esq]

First of all I'm not spending the afternoon reading your treatise on Feminism. It was enough having to read the wall of text that was your OP.

Second, having had at least one class in American Political thought which included readings from Abigail Adams, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, several suffragettes up to and including current feminist thought, I think I'm well enough equipped to answer your question. However if that isn't enough, I've also had Property Law with a feminist full professor for whom pushing the the message of the deconstruction of society to foment the the reconstruction under feminist ideals was the paramount goal rather than actually teaching about Property Law. This really meant 6 weeks of indoctrination in current feminist legal thought especially by Catherine McKinnon, professor from the University of Michigan school of law. You may remember her from her ground-breaking opinion that all hetero-sexual sex is rape.

With regard to Palin. Just as the liberal wing of feminism has its angles, so does feminism taken as a whole. Feminism encompasses a woman's ability to hold equal status in society with a man. Gender equality. To have opportunities that are equal to those of men.

A critique of the feminist strain that grew up during the 1970s and 1980s and matured in the 1990s is that it became harsh and strident and did not take into account the desires of all women. Instead, it became focused on doing feminism one way. You either bought into that or you were marginalized. Some women were not comfortable with the forced choices that this type of feminism demanded of them. However, they also wanted equality in the workplace and they wanted a role for family to be taken account of in their version of feminism. They also did not desire to cast out their femininity to get their feminism.

It is this critique of feminism that Palin speaks to with the way she has lived her life. It is all of these women, with these views, that Palin is in tune with. They are her natural supporters.

My objective view of Palin is that she is instinctively correct in her positions on the issues. She is instinctively conservative. She is one who lives her views. She is not stupid.

She is not as steeped in some poli sci topics that I would like her to be. Foreign policy and the background of conservative political thought so that she can articulate why she thinks what she thinks with the force of all those who have gone before her. So, she's raw. She might turn out to be great, she might not. Time will tell. She has an election to win between now and the next presidential that is a requirement for her to even be considered.

 

[oreo]

I believe Sarah Palin would be "feminist" because by golly she's a female--HELLO! No woman I know likes to get insulted. To be feminist means to stand together & fight back at men who like to use sexual inotations toward them--(even jokingly).

The irony here--is if David Letterman or another male made these kind of comments to a woman in an office envirorment it would be called sexual harrasement. Letterman does it on National T.V. & gets away with it.

And the left keeps defending & old man in his 60's that himself had a baby out of wed-lock & 5 years later decides to get married. A 60+ year old man that was prepped on his joke lines--knew all about what he was going to say--& still decided to make sexual remarks about a young woman.

 

[Sinatra]

First of all I'm not spending the afternoon reading your treatise on Feminism. It was enough having to read the wall of text that was your OP.

Second, having had at least one class in American Political thought which included readings from Abigail Adams, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, several suffragettes up to and including current feminist thought, I think I'm well enough equipped to answer your question. However if that isn't enough, I've also had Property Law with a feminist full professor for whom pushing the the message of the deconstruction of society to foment the the reconstruction under feminist ideals was the paramount goal rather than actually teaching about Property Law. This really meant 6 weeks of indoctrination in current feminist legal thought especially by Catherine McKinnon, professor from the University of Michigan school of law. You may remember her from her ground-breaking opinion that all hetero-sexual sex is rape.

With regard to Palin. Just as the liberal wing of feminism has its angles, so does feminism taken as a whole. Feminism encompasses a woman's ability to hold equal status in society with a man. Gender equality. To have opportunities that are equal to those of men.

A critique of the feminist strain that grew up during the 1970s and 1980s and matured in the 1990s is that it became harsh and strident and did not take into account the desires of all women. Instead, it became focused on doing feminism one way. You either bought into that or you were marginalized. Some women were not comfortable with the forced choices that this type of feminism demanded of them. However, they also wanted equality in the workplace and they wanted a role for family to be taken account of in their version of feminism. They also did not desire to cast out their femininity to get their feminism.

It is this critique of feminism that Palin speaks to with the way she has lived her life. It is all of these women, with these views, that Palin is in tune with. They are her natural supporters.

My objective view of Palin is that she is instinctively correct in her positions on the issues. She is instinctively conservative. She is one who lives her views. She is not stupid.

She is not as steeped in some poli sci topics that I would like her to be. Foreign policy and the background of conservative political thought so that she can articulate why she thinks what she thinks with the force of all those who have gone before her. So, she's raw. She might turn out to be great, she might not. Time will tell. She has an election to win between now and the next presidential that is a requirement for her to even be considered.

Thank you for this well thought out and very reasonable post.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

First of all I'm not spending the afternoon reading your treatise on Feminism. It was enough having to read the wall of text that was your OP.

I know it was long, but I felt I needed to lay some serious groundwork to keep perspective.

Second, having had at least one class in American Political thought which included readings from Abigail Adams, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, several suffragettes up to and including current feminist thought, I think I'm well enough equipped to answer your question. However if that isn't enough, I've also had Property Law with a feminist full professor for whom pushing the the message of the deconstruction of society to foment the the reconstruction under feminist ideals was the paramount goal rather than actually teaching about Property Law. This really meant 6 weeks of indoctrination in current feminist legal thought especially by Catherine McKinnon, professor from the University of Michigan school of law. You may remember her from her ground-breaking opinion that all hetero-sexual sex is rape.

Oh, man. How did you fare in that course?

With regard to Palin. Just as the liberal wing of feminism has its angles, so does feminism taken as a whole. Feminism encompasses a woman's ability to hold equal status in society with a man. Gender equality. To have opportunities that are equal to those of men.

Right. I think that is the broadest sense of feminism. I think conservatives mistakenly think that liberal feminism is the militant feminism that you were subject to at UofM; that to be a feminist means hating men, being butch, burning your bra, etc. I would say that liberal women, in general, view feminism as simply gender equality. So staying home and raising kids, etc. isn't wrong, but it was (in the '70s and '80s) also continuing the traditional role of woman in society and why there has been some polarizing of the movement.

A critique of the feminist strain that grew up during the 1970s and 1980s and matured in the 1990s is that it became harsh and strident and did not take into account the desires of all women. Instead, it became focused on doing feminism one way. You either bought into that or you were marginalized. Some women were not comfortable with the forced choices that this type of feminism demanded of them. However, they also wanted equality in the workplace and they wanted a role for family to be taken account of in their version of feminism. They also did not desire to cast out their femininity to get their feminism.

Very understandable.

It is this critique of feminism that Palin speaks to with the way she has lived her life. It is all of these women, with these views, that Palin is in tune with. They are her natural supporters.

So being a traditional (sort of, but almost in a business and political career way) woman is for Gov. Palin her feminism. And traditional women relate to this, if I take your meaning correctly? In this view anything a woman does or anything she says or any position she takes can be categorized as feminist as long as she doesn't kowtow to men. By virtue of that: anything a conservative does is a conservative political or social action as long as the conservative doesn't give in to liberals, whether it was good for conservatism or not? I think this is could simply be broadening Gov. Palin as a symbol to encompass feminism for simply being a strong woman which (although that is an admirable thing) seems more like a political strategy than true feminism.

My objective view of Palin is that she is instinctively correct in her positions on the issues. She is instinctively conservative. She is one who lives her views.

Being correct on political positions is subjective.

About the rest, you could very well be right. However, I think in some of her interviews and speeches there was some rhetoric that was fed to her more than it was her own formed opinion. This, to me, is disingenuous.

She is not stupid.

I don't think you can reasonably claim that considering her past and her performance in interviews. She might not a be complete idiot, but she isn't politically smart or savvy, and she certainly gives the impression of being low io the IQ totem pole.

She is not as steeped in some poli sci topics that I would like her to be. Foreign policy and the background of conservative political thought so that she can articulate why she thinks what she thinks with the force of all those who have gone before her.

Which I would say made her a bad choice for public scrutiny as a VP nominee.

So, she's raw.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But her inflammatory rhetoric about "palling around with terrorists" among other statement, is too divisive to be admirable.

She might turn out to be great, she might not. Time will tell.

Well, that is undoubtedly a matter of opinion.

She has an election to win between now and the next presidential that is a requirement for her to even be considered.

I think her chances are good to win her next election. Beyond that, with the changes happening in the GOP, I couldn't begin to speculate beyond: you never know...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I believe Sarah Palin would be "feminist" because by golly she's a female--HELLO! No woman I know likes to get insulted. To be feminist means to stand together & fight back at men who like to use sexual inotations toward them--(even jokingly).

Women make sexual jokes belittling men, so I guess equality means that if you can dish it out...

The irony here--is if David Letterman or another male made these kind of comments to a woman in an office envirorment it would be called sexual harrasement. Letterman does it on National T.V. & gets away with it.

Well, if they worked together, she'd have a case. But as it is....

And the left keeps defending & old man in his 60's that himself had a baby out of wed-lock & 5 years later decides to get married. A 60+ year old man that was prepped on his joke lines--knew all about what he was going to say--& still decided to make sexual remarks about a young woman.

The Left is not defending Letterman. The Left is defending his Freedom of Speech; his freedom to make jokes in bad taste or which can be considered inappropriate.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Thank you for this well thought out and very reasonable post.

Perhaps you could strive to emulate his example?

 

[Soaring]

The election was over in November. Mc and Palin lost. Why keep hashing out the same old bullshit?
As far as making comments about Sarah on national TV, she is fair game because she is a national figure, but her kids are not. Letterman fucked up, and his lame apology was certainly not adequate. The few times I have watched parts of the Letterman show, I was turned off by the sick ways in which he tried to show some humor. The man is not all there. Palin's old man ought to punch out his lights.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

This isn't about the election, Soaring.

 

[Soaring]

This isn't about the election, Soaring.

OK, then if this is about her being capable of being POTUS in 2012, then I say no. And, it is not because she is a beautiful female. It's because I was not convinced by her speeches during the prelims that she knew much of anything about politics at the national level. She would have to serve some time in the Senate of the US for several years in order to gain the knowledge of how Washington works. She is perfectly happy in Alaska raising her family, fishing, hunting and dealing with local politics. She seems quite happy living that life, and would be put into a very distraught situation if suddenly placed in the White House in the middle of Washington DC. A whole different environment.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

"Feminism, racism, fascism and all other social-type 'isms' are what we say they are at any given time and in any situation. Don't try to co-opt any of them." -- Liberals.

 

[oreo]

This isn't about the election, Soaring.

OK, then if this is about her being capable of being POTUS in 2012, then I say no. And, it is not because she is a beautiful female. It's because I was not convinced by her speeches during the prelims that she knew much of anything about politics at the national level. She would have to serve some time in the Senate of the US for several years in order to gain the knowledge of how Washington works. She is perfectly happy in Alaska raising her family, fishing, hunting and dealing with local politics. She seems quite happy living that life, and would be put into a very distraught situation if suddenly placed in the White House in the middle of Washington DC. A whole different environment.

Yeah--but none of what you say gives anyone an excuse to attack her & her daughter in the manner that Letterman did. She's not running for anything--she was at a baseball game.

Once more we have gone from electing a govenor to a community organizer who appears to know nothing about how this economy works. We are actually experiencing his experience & so far--it looks disatrous.

 

[Soaring]

I wasn't making an excuse to attack her family. Sarah is a public figure who has placed herself in the public view for negative as well as positive comments about her job performance. Her job right now is the governor of Alaska. Her children and husband have nothing to do with her job, so it is off limits to make jokes about them. If the talk show host wants to make jokes about Sarah, then he can legally do that because she is a public elected figure. She cannot bring libel suit against anyone for making fun of her, but she can certainly take legal action against anyone who attacks her family members. I expect she will be doing that if she is not going to run for POTUS in 2012. If she is, then that will be a mark against her.