Female genital mutiliation

[Onyx]

MOST fgm is done for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with sex addictions It's done as a right of passage and it is NOT done in clean anesthisized conditions like a hospital.

Never contested that.

Nonetheless, there are practical applications to female genital mutilation, and I support a woman's right to pursue them.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

No you show me where FGM is LEGAL in the Western world

Wherever it is not illegal. Not all westernized countries have all encompassing laws against female genital mutilation.

At any rate, they shouldn't.

I commented:

"No you show me where FGM is LEGAL in the Western world"

You responded:

"Wherever it is not illegal."

You commented:

"They are doing this relatively safely in western hospitals nowadays."

Again I repeat:

No you show me where FGM is LEGAL in the Western world, where parents can go to Western nation hospitals and ask for their daughter to have EVERYTHING removed and the doctors and medical staff to agree to that and NOT be prosecuted and lose their medical licences.

 

[Coyote]

What specific health issues are common with circumcision?

Higher risk of disease and infection.

The lack of foreskin also causes heat regulation issues, which affects excretion and ejaculation. This isn't actually a real health concern persay, but nonetheless it is a noticeable body change.

I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

You know that argument by observation is not credible.

There are plenty of women that have had their clitoris cut, and have lived long healthy lives.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Not sure what this means, but I find it beside the point.

The greater question is whether women should have the liberty to alter their bodies.

[/quote][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

It isn't "beside the point" - it's excrutiatingly paintful to an adult human, as is the recovery.

The issue however, is this: DO women really have that "liberty" if they are culturally coerced into it by family or peer pressure? How about woman who are still minors - children - when it's done as is usually the case?

Do we allow elective procedures to be done that have significant health risks? That is an ethical issue as well.

Female genital mutilation (FGM) frequently asked questions | UNFPA - United Nations Population Fund

How does FGM affect the health of women and girls?


FGM has serious implications for the sexual and reproductive health of girls and women.


The effects of FGM depend on a number of factors, including the type performed, the expertise of the practitioner, the hygiene conditions under which it is performed, the amount of resistance and the general health condition of the girl/woman undergoing the procedure. Complications may occur in all types of FGM, but are most frequent with infibulation.


Immediate complications include severe pain, shock, haemorrhage, tetanus or infection, urine retention, ulceration of the genital region and injury to adjacent tissue, wound infection, urinary infection, fever, and septicemia. Haemorrhage and infection can be severe enough to cause death.


Long-term consequences include complications during childbirth, anaemia, the formation of cysts and abscesses, keloid scar formation, damage to the urethra resulting in urinary incontinence, dyspareunia (painful sexual intercourse), sexual dysfunction, hypersensitivity of the genital area and increased risk of HIV transmission, as well as psychological effects.


Infibulation, or type III FGM, may cause complete vaginal obstruction resulting in the accumulation of menstrual flow in the vagina and uterus. Infibulation creates a physical barrier to sexual intercourse and childbirth. An infibulated woman therefore has to undergo gradual dilation of the vaginal opening before sexual intercourse can take place. Often, infibulated women are cut open on the first night of marriage (by the husband or a circumciser) to enable the husband to be intimate with his wife. At childbirth, many women also have to be cut again because the vaginal opening is too small to allow for the passage of a baby. Infibulation is also linked to menstrual and urination disorders, recurrent bladder and urinary tract infections, fistulae and infertility.


What are the consequences for childbirth?

A recent study found that, compared with women who had not been subjected to FGM, those who had undergone FGM faced a significantly greater risk of requiring a Caesarean section, an episiotomy and an extended hospital stay, and also of suffering post-partum haemorrhage.


Women who have undergone infibulation are more likely to suffer from prolonged and obstructed labour, sometimes resulting in foetal death and obstetric fistula. The infants of mothers who have undergone more extensive forms of FGM are at an increased risk of dying at birth.


Very recent estimates by WHO, UNICEF, UNFPA, The World Bank and the United Nations Population Division reveal that most of the high-FGM-prevalence countries also have high maternal mortality ratios and high numbers of maternal death. Two high-FGM-prevalence countries are among the four countries with the highest numbers of maternal death globally. Five of the high-prevalence countries have maternal mortality ratios of 550 per 100,000 live births and above.
​

 

[Coyote]

MOST fgm is done for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with sex addictions It's done as a right of passage and it is NOT done in clean anesthisized conditions like a hospital.

Never contested that.

Nonetheless, there are practical applications to female genital mutilation, and I support a woman's right to pursue them.

Practical as in how?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

MOST fgm is done for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with sex addictions It's done as a right of passage and it is NOT done in clean anesthisized conditions like a hospital.

Never contested that.

Nonetheless, there are practical applications to female genital mutilation, and I support a woman's right to pursue them.

"Nonetheless, there are practical applications to female genital mutilation, and I support a woman's right to pursue them."

List them and not this foolishness of the lowering the sex drive thing, because FGM doesn't lower the sex drive, it 100% eliminates it, period.

 

[defcon4]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

What specific health issues are common with circumcision? I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Circumcision has no added health benefit. It spread in the western world to increase medical expenses spreading lies about protection from STD-s. Follow the money. Also, an infant has no say so about being mutilated. It is barbarism on a high degree.

 

[defcon4]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

It's a cultural practice - not a religious one. Neither Christianity nor Islam promotes it. Neither bans it either. It's the remnant of a barbaric culture.

I agree it's more a Cultural Practice, a barbaric and evil Cultural Practice that should have been abandoned pre-Middle Ages.

There should be Zero Tolerance for FGM anywhere on this planet.

...and male mutilation also....

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

MOST fgm is done for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with sex addictions It's done as a right of passage and it is NOT done in clean anesthisized conditions like a hospital.

Never contested that.

Nonetheless, there are practical applications to female genital mutilation, and I support a woman's right to pursue them.

Practical as in how?

Onyx is saying that people have a right to mutilate themselves to alter their bodies, so if someone went to the hospital and asked them to amputate their legs, would they do this? No, that person would be sent to the Psychiatric Wing.

People who either self-mutilate or wants body parts removed have psychological issues and need professional help.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

What specific health issues are common with circumcision? I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Circumcision has no added health benefit. It spread in the western world to increase medical expenses spreading lies about protection from STD-s. Follow the money. Also, an infant has no say so about being mutilated. It is barbarism on a high degree.

But it's not on par with FGM where EVERYTHING gets removed.

 

[Onyx]

The funny thing is that we have disassociated westerners calling out the customs of other cultures and religions as being barbaric, and trying to crusade on their behalf.

Everytime I hear someone that is not Jewish complain about circumcision (in fairness, many Christians go through with it), I laugh my ass off.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

From your link...


Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

It's a cultural practice - not a religious one. Neither Christianity nor Islam promotes it. Neither bans it either. It's the remnant of a barbaric culture.

I agree it's more a Cultural Practice, a barbaric and evil Cultural Practice that should have been abandoned pre-Middle Ages.

There should be Zero Tolerance for FGM anywhere on this planet.

...and male mutilation also....

There are cases where male circumcision is the only option, such as a foreskin that is too tight.

There are no logical or medical arguments at all for FGM.

 

[Onyx]

Onyx is saying that people have a right to mutilate themselves to alter their bodies, so if someone went to the hospital and asked them to amputate their legs, would they do this?

People who either self-mutilate or wants body parts removed have psychological issues and need professional help.

There are actual people that seek to amputate their body parts, and actual doctors that have performed these procedures.

You fascist ***** really need to stop trying to control the voluntary actions conducted by your fellow man.

 

[Onyx]

There are no logical or medical arguments at all for FGM.

Disabling sexual pleasure for starters.

There are a lot of people that would be interested in doing that, and with women, the physical component of sexual pleasure can be tempered solely through snipping the clitoris.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Onyx is saying that people have a right to mutilate themselves to alter their bodies, so if someone went to the hospital and asked them to amputate their legs, would they do this?

People who either self-mutilate or wants body parts removed have psychological issues and need professional help.

There are actual people that seek to amputate their body parts, and actual doctors that have performed these procedures.

You fascist ***** really need to stop trying to control the voluntary actions conducted by your fellow man.

"You fascist ***** really need to stop trying to control the voluntary actions conducted by your fellow man."

You're just a little Troll aren't you, yes you are.

 

[defcon4]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

What specific health issues are common with circumcision? I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Circumcision has no added health benefit. It spread in the western world to increase medical expenses spreading lies about protection from STD-s. Follow the money. Also, an infant has no say so about being mutilated. It is barbarism on a high degree.

But it's not on par with FGM where EVERYTHING gets removed.

I agree on that one. It is total insanity of the insane who support it...

 

[Onyx]

"You fascist ***** really need to stop trying to control the voluntary actions conducted by your fellow man."

You're just a little Troll aren't you, yes you are.

Nah, the trolls are the social justice warriors trying to shape society into their ideal image through violence and control

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

There are no logical or medical arguments at all for FGM.

Disabling sexual pleasure for starters.

There are a lot of people that would be interested in doing that.

"Disabling sexual pleasure for starters.

There are a lot of people that would be interested in doing that."

Normal people don't do that though, as sex is normal, normal men don't want to do that to women.

Maybe you want to decrease these things in women because you're just crap in bed? Although with your other odd sexual interests in Necrophilia and Bestiality, I'm not sure what sort of normal woman you'd attract.

This could be a Fetish thing with you perhaps.

 

[defcon4]

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

It's a cultural practice - not a religious one. Neither Christianity nor Islam promotes it. Neither bans it either. It's the remnant of a barbaric culture.

I agree it's more a Cultural Practice, a barbaric and evil Cultural Practice that should have been abandoned pre-Middle Ages.

There should be Zero Tolerance for FGM anywhere on this planet.

...and male mutilation also....

There are cases where male circumcision is the only option, such as a foreskin that is too tight.

There are no logical or medical arguments at all for FGM.

I agree, but there are other ways to release tight skin than chop it off. Infants generally do not have that issue expressively manifested...

 

[Coyote]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

What specific health issues are common with circumcision? I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Circumcision has no added health benefit. It spread in the western world to increase medical expenses spreading lies about protection from STD-s. Follow the money. Also, an infant has no say so about being mutilated. It is barbarism on a high degree.

It seems there are some benefits - but not enough to make a strong case either way. There also doesn't seem to be any adverse effects.Circumcision (male) Why it's done - Mayo Clinic

 

[Onyx]

Normal people don't do that though, as sex is normal, normal men don't want to do that to women.

Normality is a social construction, and I have no interest in trying to put members of society into a box of "ideal humans."

You seem like a Christian, so maybe you can relate to it as well. If your hands cause you to sin, then cut off your hands, remember that? Perhaps that was not meant to be taken literally, but it certainly carries some weight if you want to look at things from a religious and moral perspective.

I bet that line of religious scripture is actually the primary influence for why FGM is conducted.